PTC Waterford Or Atlantic Air Cork??

robfullam

PTC In Waterford for all my Pilot training or Atlantic Air in Cork??

yaeger

Without a shadow of a doubt Atlantic air cork....

robfullam

Why is that??

yaeger

Cos there good and the other is just ok.
My answer is as simple and straightforward as your question.
Search flyinginireland.com and pprune.org for more details, then go visit both and then you may have more formulated questions.

robfullam

Have you trained in either??

airvan

Haven't you already asked this question in another form on a different thread?

In any case there are three commercial flying schools in Ireland. NFC, Atlantic and PTC. All three produce pilots who eventually get jobs in the airlines. PTC is the most expensive. Simple as that.

(Except that the NFC is well connected to Ryanair having active Ryanair pilots among it's Instructor cadre. As everyone is going to work for Ryanair eventually it's something to bear in mind.:D)

MightyDucks

airvan wrote: »

PTC is the most expensive. Simple as that..:D)

Is that not because they have an integrated course though?

airvan

Sigh! :rolleyes: Once and for all, let's clear this up. It's not integrated. They just call it that for marketing purposes. A real integrated course doesn't include a PPL and starts with months of ground school and then the exams before you even sit in a 'plane.

Here's the relevant part of the JAR FCL 1. Go to page 115. It specifies what an integrated course consists of

http://www.jaa.nl/publications/jars/607069.pdf

The question you have to ask yourself is why they insist on misleading potential customers in this way. They offer a full time modular course. Nothing wrong with that. You just have to wonder why they deliberately misrepresent it?

It's like painting a Ford Mondeo bright red and calling it a Ferrari.

robfullam

Atlantic is 60k but doesn't include 18 months of accomodation/Uniform or the MCC Course at the end..

PTC is 79K and includes all this..

airvan

Yep, Atlantic don't even have a uniform nor the NFC. Not even a hat.

robfullam

PTC I think....:rolleyes:

globemaster1986

For my 2cents worth:

I haven't started yet but i'm like you rob looking into it and wondering the best place to train. I have heard some very unflattering comments from an FR raining captain re Atlantic and the quality of graduates, he didn't gush over PTC but was of opinion it was of a much higher standard!

airvan

FR training captain re Atlantic and the quality of graduates

That's probably because he's ex NFC. The training department has a lot of ex NFC instructors and pilots.

globemaster1986

airvan wrote: »

That's probably because he's ex NFC. The training department has a lot of ex NFC instructors and pilots.

No he's ex Air Corps, never went to NFC.

donkey balls

guys wether you train with NFC/OBA/PTC you still sit the same exams/skill tests,this thing of saying that one school is better than the other is bull.
i happen to know two LTC from FR one did his training in the USA the other here it is down to the individual my mate is starting his TR with FR (he trained modular)all right he sold his car to pay for the MEIR and has since taken a loan out to pay for the TR.

by the time he finishes training he will owe the banks 30k for the TR not 120k that some other people will, having chosen to train at a particular school in the south east.

globemaster1986

donkey balls wrote: »

guys wether you train with NFC/OBA/PTC you still sit the same exams/skill tests,this thing of saying that one school is better than the other is bull.
i happen to know two LTC from FR one did his training in the USA the other here it is down to the individual my mate is starting his TR with FR (he trained modular)all right he sold his car to pay for the MEIR and has since taken a loan out to pay for the TR.

by the time he finishes training he will owe the banks 30k for the TR not 120k that some other people will, having chosen to train at a particular school in the south east.

Look i'm not bashing and FTO or promoting one over the other, nothing in that for me! All I was saying was what i had heard from senior FR training captain. Obviously the exams are all the same, goes without saying. his point was he felt students from Atlantic in his opinion were of a lower standard and in his opinion had to work harder to pass the type rating course etc

robfullam

I think I'll go to PTC Since that FR captain said that. Their very nice people to deal with in Comparison to some colleges not mentionong any names:rolleyes:

yaeger

With all due respect Rob, I am guessing you have not visited all 3 and grilled them with questions, and even if you have! You have not considered or spoken to any of the FTO's in the UK. The level of questions and decision made on hearsay is lacking at the very least... Don't mean to be harsh mate but with an 80k investment at a time in the industry that has guys with 5000hrs jet time on their knees you need to take things a little more cautiously and with a little more investigation. Go visit all the schools, go to the flyer show, Trawl the web on schools and research because if you don't you will become the wrong side of statistics dominating this industry.
I have had dealings with all the schools mentioned, and I would'nt even be considering Ireland but If I did I mentioned whom with. You really need to get out there and form your own opinion on these places.
However I would differ from another poster in one sense, Yes all the exams are the same but the level and quality of instruction/environment can differ immensely so the right choice of school for you is a big decision.
O and beware the very nice smiley people....be very aware.


Best of luck

globemaster1986

yaeger wrote: »

Yes all the exams are the same but the level and quality of instruction/environment can differ immensely so the right choice of school for you is a big decision.


Best of luck

This was exactly the point I was trying to make. The FR captain i spoke to said exactly that about the FTO mentioned, his problem was the quality of instruction.

donkey balls

ok maybe i should have pointed out that along with doing the same exams the school in which you decide to train at is also very important and as yeager said beware of the :):) people.

robfullam

Thanks for that lads! Really hard to decide

airvan

As an aside from all this. If it does demonstrate anything is that good marketing works. If you can convince people to pay more for the same product. Well then you're are onto a winner. PTC are quite good at that. They present the whole college notion have an 'aptitude' test you have :rolleyes: to pass. Their slick website even now still cynically includes 'airline interview' as the last step of each of their courses. It's really well done. You have to hand it to them.

The other schools should take note of it.

But Rob there's no hurry to make a decision. Go the Flyer show in Dublin coming up in May. Go around all the stands and think about it. Some of the really big names in training will be there. You don't have to go with an Irish school.

http://exhibitions.flyer.co.uk/dublin.htm

robfullam

Yeah your right i'm definitely going to that exhibition!;)

airvan

Oh yes and go to the airline seminars there too. Ask about which schools they prefer. You probably won't have to but others will anyway. The answers may surprise you.

You'll have plenty to think about after that. But beware of slick salesmanship.:p

robfullam

It'll be well worth going to anyways!:D

TrackBarChaser

Hey guys, my opinion/what I did:
Go to The States and then convert to JAA. Works out more or less the same price and I believe you end up with better handling skills as you will end up with more hours and the FAA system, especially the multi stuff places much more emphasis on the flying side of things.
Just my opinion.
Good luck to you in your training, as already mentioned, things are really bad in aviation at the moment. I'm very lucky to have found a nice job but I hear horror stories on a weekly basis from newly qualified pilots for over a year now who can't even secure an interview and also, from guys with 1000's of hrs on MRJT and heavy a/c not getting a sniff either. So good luck if you start soon or possibly wait awhile...

blondie83

Why not just go over to England and get everything included modular for £40,000? Or maybe I'm missing something! http://www.flysfc.com/zerotofatplcommercial.html

McNulty737

PTC are a bunch of rip off artists. They charge a ridiculous price for a second rate modular course, their only strong point is their sales team and the majority of their graduates are unemployed. If you want to spend large sums of money to get the same licences that you can get for half the price if you train sensibly, then at least do it somewhere that you will get job opportunites at the end of it e.g oxford.

jarls

airvan wrote: »

Sigh! :rolleyes: Once and for all, let's clear this up. It's not integrated. They just call it that for marketing purposes. A real integrated course doesn't include a PPL and starts with months of ground school and then the exams before you even sit in a 'plane.

Here's the relevant part of the JAR FCL 1. Go to page 115. It specifies what an integrated course consists of

http://www.jaa.nl/publications/jars/607069.pdf

The question you have to ask yourself is why they insist on misleading potential customers in this way. They offer a full time modular course. Nothing wrong with that. You just have to wonder why they deliberately misrepresent it?

It's like painting a Ford Mondeo bright red and calling it a Ferrari.

Hi I have been looking at training for a long time and rang the IAA and they said that PTC waterford are Licenced to deliver a JAA integrated course since last year just FYI

globemaster1986

jarls wrote: »

Hi I have been looking at training for a long time and rang the IAA and they said that PTC waterford are Licenced to deliver a JAA integrated course since last year just FYI

Just reading over this thread, and others before this one, many of you are very anti PTC. Why is ythis? Is it just because they market themselves well? Have any of you actually trained with them? In fairness ye're great to bad mouth them but ye don't really offer better alternatives. If not PTC, then where should i go to train? And don't say Florida, i mean specifics. Name the best places to train?

TrackBarChaser

globemaster1986 wrote: »

Just reading over this thread, and others before this one, many of you are very anti PTC. Why is ythis? Is it just because they market themselves well? Have any of you actually trained with them? In fairness ye're great to bad mouth them but ye don't really offer better alternatives. If not PTC, then where should i go to train? And don't say Florida, i mean specifics. Name the best places to train?

Don't train anywhere as there aren't any jobs out there. Sorry to be blunt but it's a fact. Don't be so naive as to believe any flight school who tells you otherwise. You will waste your time and more importantly your cash.
And to be honest even if there were jobs out there I wouldn't bother, the salaries these days are pitiful.
You may view this post/me as being very negative, fair enough.
But I know of people who are suffering desperately both financially and mentally after gaining a frozen ATPL and have yet to get an interview after over a year. I know you're thinking "what about Ryanair?". The people I know couldn't get the further 30k from the bank (any bank) to pay for the type rating.
And my situation, I have a job, not a great one terms and conditions wise and even worse salary wise.
So, weather it's PTC, Atlantic or Florida it doesn't really matter that much as no matter where you train it's the same feeling you'll have when your penny less and jobless or for that matter penny less and flying a 777