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Ongoing religious scandals

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Same sh1t, different church, reputation more important than justice.

    MrP


  • Registered Users Posts: 541 ✭✭✭Bristolscale7


    Taking the utmost forum discipline not to start a new thread for this especially. A cocaine-snorting priest that collects Nazi paraphernalia:
    http://www.thesun.ie/irishsol/homepage/6962791/Father-coke-Irish-Priest-snorts-cocaine-in-shocking-video.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 48,990 ✭✭✭✭Lithium93_


    Taking the utmost forum discipline not to start a new thread for this especially. A cocaine-snorting priest that collects Nazi paraphernalia:
    http://www.thesun.ie/irishsol/homepage/6962791/Father-coke-Irish-Priest-snorts-cocaine-in-shocking-video.html

    Well surely something like this deserves it's own thread.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,846 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    To paraphrase someone on /r/ireland, at least he's not ****ing children.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,419 ✭✭✭cowboyBuilder


    Taking the utmost forum discipline not to start a new thread for this especially. A cocaine-snorting priest that collects Nazi paraphernalia:
    http://www.thesun.ie/irishsol/homepage/6962791/Father-coke-Irish-Priest-snorts-cocaine-in-shocking-video.html


    Reminds me of

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q95t2ulrXW4


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Except the priests weren't snorting cocaine in the Fr. Ted version of the nazi room. That would have been just too ridiculous.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭pauldla


    "Cocaine? Oh no, what am I on about at all, I meant...raisins."


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Taking the utmost forum discipline not to start a new thread for this especially. A cocaine-snorting priest that collects Nazi paraphernalia:
    http://www.thesun.ie/irishsol/homepage/6962791/Father-coke-Irish-Priest-snorts-cocaine-in-shocking-video.html

    I've a few bits n pieces meself, but they don't go on the feckin mantelpiece....bit of an eejit by the looks of things. If it turns out theres money resting in his account he's going to become immortal though.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Over a video link, Cardinal Pell explains that the RCC's response to massive levels of child abuse amongst its employees and the consequent worldwide institutional cover-up as "mucking up".

    Seems corporate and personal responsibility found a dark corner to hide in. Again.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/australia-catholic-church-child-sex-abuse-commission-2633096-Feb2016/


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,102 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/priest-who-hired-continuity-ira-to-threaten-nephew-loses-appeal-1.2554490
    A priest has lost an appeal against a jail sentence for hiring men who said they were from the Continuity IRA to issue death threats and intimidate his nephew into dropping legal action he was planning against him.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,469 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Inquiry hears of gun-toting paedophile priest who made children kneel between his legs

    http://www.thejournal.ie/paedophile-priest-australia-inquiry-2636813-Mar2016/
    AN AUSTRALIAN INQUIRY has heard of a gun-toting paedophile priest who made children kneel between his legs during confession as Vatican finance chief Cardinal George Pell admitted a time of “crimes and cover-ups” within the Catholic Church.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,846 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Oh, I'm sure someone named after a cheap strong cider will come along and admonish you for not talking about sexual abuse by Muslims/Protestants/Jews. :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭pauldla


    From Mother Jones
    Hundreds of Children Allegedly Abused Over 40-Year Period in Pennsylvania Diocese, Grand Jury Determines

    After an exhaustive, two-year investigation, a statewide grand jury has determined that hundreds of children were sexually abused by priests and other religious leaders serving the Roman Catholic Diocese of Altoona-Johnstown in western Pennsylvania over at least 40 years.

    The grand jury issued a 147-page report, made public today, that details widespread alleged abuse involving at least 50 priests and religious leaders, and the findings include accounts of how Diocese superiors took action to conceal the accusations in order to protect the Church's image.

    ...

    During the investigation, the grand jury reviewed more than 200 exhibits and heard hours of testimony from numerous witnesses, creating thousands of pages of transcribed testimony. A search warrant executed at a Diocese office in August produced what the report calls a "secret archive" of files for priests who had been accused of sexual misconduct, as well as internal correspondence between bishops and the accused priests. In all, the grand jury removed over 115,000 documents from the Diocese.

    The report from the Attorney General's office is here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 541 ✭✭✭Bristolscale7


    Ooops. Catholic Church-owned insurer has secret files on paedophile priests:

    http://www.theage.com.au/national/secret-archive-of-paedophile-crime-kept-by-catholic-churchs-insurers-20160317-gnlc6k.html

    Catholic Church Insurance, Ltd, owned by the Australian Diocese, assembled thousands of pages of dossiers on rapes committed by paedophile priests in the 1990s when survivors of the assaults started coming forward with compensation claims.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,469 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    http://www.thejournal.ie/vice-afghanistan-rape-2709908-Apr2016/
    Politician threatens to have reporter's nose cut off after being asked about rape

    https://twitter.com/VICE/status/718637578186936321


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    A prominent religious organization in Turkey is alleged to have covered up abuse. The Turkish government, which supports the organization, first voted down a proposal "to investigate and prevent child abuse", then under public pressure, voted to establish a "commission of enquiry" to find out what happened:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36071773


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    robindch wrote: »
    The Turkish government, which supports the organization, first voted down a proposal "to investigate and prevent child abuse", then under public pressure, voted to establish a "commission of enquiry" to find out what happened..
    I'm pretty sure I have seen this movie before.
    In the end, influential religious members of the govt. set up a redress board which uses taxpayers money to pay compo to the victims. Then all the submissions gathered in the inquiry are sealed up in big wooden crates labelled "Top secret; Do not open for 75 years" and then the crates are wheeled into a big warehouse.


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,102 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Then the warehouse suffers a mysterious fire... (I think that's the sequel - not out yet)

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,469 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    recedite wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure I have seen this movie before.
    In the end, influential religious members of the govt. set up a redress board which uses taxpayers money to pay compo to the victims. Then all the submissions gathered in the inquiry are sealed up in big wooden crates labelled "Top secret; Do not open for 75 years" and then the crates are wheeled into a big warehouse.

    ah yes, I remember that

    Raiders-of-the-Lost-Ark.gif


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  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,469 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/05/04/288-allegations-90-accused-10-convictions/
    The National Board for Safeguarding Children in the Catholic Church has today published its final tranche of reviews – 30 in total – of child safeguarding practice within certain orders and congregations.

    The NBSCCC is a church-run organisation and reviews are done on an invitation basis.

    Among the 30 orders or congregations reviewed were the Blessed Sacrament Fathers; the Brothers of Charity; Hospitaller Order Of Saint John of God; the Marist Brothers; and the Personal Prelature of Opus Dei – all of whom had allegations made against them.

    The following four orders or congregations – the Society of St Paul; the Society of Divine Saviour (Salvatorians); the Daughters of the Cross of Liege; and the Comboni Missionaries Of The Heart of Jesus – also had allegations made against them but, according to the NBSCCC, no longer have a ministry with children in Ireland.

    The 30 reviews – which can be accessed here – related to complaints made between January 1, 1975 and the period of the review which began in December 2015.

    Overall, the reviews found there 288 allegations made against 90 priests, brothers or sisters with just 10 criminal convictions arising from those complaints.

    The allegations relate to the period between 1950 and 2002 with one incident in 2013.

    In relation to the Society of Divine Saviour (Salvatorians), the NBSCCC found the following in relation to a now deceased priest, referred to only as Fr A:

    “Information received from the Salvatorians, indicate that there was one priest who ministered in Ireland against whom there were allegations of child sexual abuse. According to the Salvatorian case file, there is knowledge of 9 named children who were abused by Fr. A.”

    “However, behind the small numbers recorded is this one case of a prolific, long term abuser of children, there is information on file which suggests, by his own admission Fr. A had abused in excess of 100 children, mostly girls in the age range 6 years to 9 years of age, in various parts of Ireland; but Fr. A did not provide the names of these children when making this admission.”

    “Fr. A served as a Salvatorian priest from the time of his ordination in the 1950s to the time of his death, in 2009.”

    “He worked as a teacher and a seminary lecturer in the UK, a member of the General Council of the Order in Rome, a parish priest in an Australian and in a Dublin parish, and as a congregational archivist and hospital Chaplain in Rome.”

    “His abuse began early in his priesthood and lasted at least until 2004.”

    “Fr. A was accused in 2002 by a female relative of abusing her when she was a child; and from reviewing the case files this appears to be the first allegation that was made known to the congregation.”

    “While it is difficult from the written records to be completely sure of when his Provincial was first made aware of this allegation, Fr. A was withdrawn by the then Provincial from his parish in Dublin in December 2002.”

    “By that time Fr. A had been assessed, though it is noted that Fr. A had arranged this assessment himself. The advice of the assessing professional was that, while the abuse alleged did happen, it was probably a once-off event.”


    “He did however state that it would probably be wise not to allow Fr. A to have ministry that allowed him access to children. The Provincial wrote to the Archbishop of Dublin informing him that he was withdrawing Fr. A from the parish, and he implied that this was due to the stress of his responsibilities there.”

    “The Provincial however did not inform the Archbishop of the real reason for withdrawing the priest; and he subsequently arranged for him to take up a position in the congregation’s archives at the congregation’s Motherhouse in Rome.”

    “…As nobody in Rome had been made aware that there were child protection concerns about Fr. A, he was not supervised in any way while he worked in Rome.”

    “To date the congregation has not received any allegations relating to Fr. A’s time spent in Rome as an archivist and hospital chaplain.”

    “It is recorded that Fr. A returned in May 2004 on holidays to the Dublin parish from which he had previously been withdrawn, and that he said Mass and mixed with parishioners there. It is not recorded on file whether this was Fr. A’s only visit to Ireland following his posting to Rome in early 2003.”

    “The Salvatorians are currently investigating an allegation from a woman who was abused as a child by a priest in that Dublin parish in 2004; during which time Fr. A was back on holidays ministering in the parish; it has not been confirmed that the respondent priest was Fr A.”

    “…Fr. A was convicted of child sexual abuse in December 2007. The case related to his abuse of ‘several girls over a 25-year period. He was given a custodial sentence of four years with all but 18 month suspended.”

    “Fr. A was released from prison in early 2009… He died later that year.”

    The NBSCCC found the following 19 orders or congregations had no allegations made against them while they have no or limited ministry with children in Ireland: Alexian Brothers; Benedictine Monks – Stamullen; Franciscans Conventual; Franciscan Renewal – Limerick and Derry; Marianists; Sons of Divine Providence; Adorers of the Sacred Heart of Jesus of Montmartre; Blessed Sacrament Sisters; Carmelites – Aged and Infirm – Dalkey; Carmelites – Enclosed – x 10; Clarissian Missionary Sisters of the Blessed Sacrament; Franciscan Missionary Sisters of Littlehampton; Franciscan Missionaries of Mary; Franciscan Missionaries of Our Lady; Handmaids of the Sacred Heart of Jesus; La Retraite Sisters; Missionaries of Charity – NON CORI; Missionary Sisters of St Peter Claver; Poor Clares – Enclosed x 6.

    Review of Child Safeguarding Practice in the Society of the Divine Saviour (Salvatorians) (NBSCCCCI)

    30 Review Reports on Child Safeguarding Practice, (May 4, 2016)

    bloody hell :(


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    NBSCCC wrote:
    “To date the congregation has not received any allegations relating to Fr. A’s time spent in Rome as an archivist and hospital chaplain.”
    Would Fr. A have been responsible for the archives of his own order? If so, one can't help wonder whether the record might have been tampered with.
    NBSCCC wrote:
    The NBSCCC found the following 19 orders or congregations had no allegations made against them [...] Benedictine Monks – Stamullen
    The group at Stamullen have been in operation since the start of 2013 with a handful of monks and, so far as I'm aware, have no access to children. They're aligned with EWTN, Alive and hard-right catholicism in general.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    The NBSCCC found the following 19 orders or congregations had no allegations made against them while they have no or limited ministry with children...
    This proves it was the children's fault all along! Once they are separated, no problems occur.


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,102 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    But this is all in the past, legacy issue, they didn't know how serious it was back then, no longer an issue today, safe as houses so it is... eh...


    ...CONTEXT!!!

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,469 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    But...but...he's the best pope ever, look at all the good he does......

    http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/article77919292.html
    Pope stands by French cardinal facing abuse cover-up claims
    Pope Francis has voiced support for a French cardinal who has faced allegations of covering up cases of pedophile priests in his Lyon parish, saying he shouldn't resign.

    Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/article77919292.html#storylink=cpy


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,135 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Really, he is not wrong. He is saying that investigation - civil investigation - should establish the truth of the allegations before he (the Pope) takes any action against him. Just because he has been accused, and just because others have been found wanting, does not mean that his guilt should be assumed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 541 ✭✭✭Bristolscale7


    However the abuse did happen while he was in charge. That is not in doubt. The only question is whether or not he abetted the abusers (I know what I'm betting on). His employees, the people he appointed abused children. That's not disputed. So whether or not he's a criminal, he should still be sacked.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    looksee wrote: »
    Really, he is not wrong. He is saying that investigation - civil investigation - should establish the truth of the allegations before he (the Pope) takes any action against him. Just because he has been accused, and just because others have been found wanting, does not mean that his guilt should be assumed.
    Technically, that's true. However, in areas outside of religion, it would be expected that the individual would be "suspended on full pay" in order to "concentrate on proving his innocence", or some such formulation - in many US corporates, it's called "gardening leave". Staying on, but having the allegations subsequently proved, would be retrospectively more harmful than resigning in the absence of proof - hence the use of a third equitable option.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭pauldla


    National Catholic Reporter on another scandal hitting the French church.

    Prominent French priest and Vatican adviser accused in sex scandal
    For years, seminaries and monasteries around France sent students and novices to Msgr. Tony Anatrella, a prominent French priest and therapist who has written disparagingly of gays, if their superiors decided the young men were struggling with homosexuality.

    Now Anatrella, who argues that gay men cannot be ordained as priests, is facing mounting allegations that he himself had sex with male clients under his care, a scandal that could have repercussions all the way to the Vatican, where the priest is still regularly consulted on matters of sexuality.

    It seems the Monsignor was trying to, er, 'gay away the gay'.
    "You're not gay, you just think that you are," Anatrella reportedly told Daniel Lamarca, who was a 23-year-old seminarian when he first went to Anatrella in 1987.

    According to Dutch Catholic journalist Hendro Munsterman, who first reported Lamarca's story in Nederlands Dagblad, Anatrella told Lamarca he could rid him of his "pseudo-homosexuality" and sought to do so by performing sex acts on Lamarca.

    And why is it bad to be homosexual, according to the Monsignor?
    According to a report from Catholic News Service, Anatrella wrote that gays are "narcissists" and said homosexuality is "a problem in the psychic organization" of a person's sexuality. He said that for theological reasons the Catholic Church can only ordain "men mature in their masculine identity."

    On a practical level as well, he wrote, many of the sex scandals in the church happened because gay men, even if they vowed to remain sexually chaste, were ordained as priests and could not remain chaste.

    Anatrella also provided a long list of warning signs that should alert seminary staff to the possibility that a seminarian is gay.

    Among the signs he listed were students who had trouble relating to their fathers or who tend to isolate themselves, and those found viewing pornography on the Internet and who often see themselves as victims.

    It seems the Good Lord Himself might almost have been gay, if those are the warning signs!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭pauldla


    From AP:

    Philippine president-elect blasts Catholic church, bishops
    MANILA, Philippines (AP) — The presumptive Philippine president-elect has blasted the country's dominant Roman Catholic church as "the most hypocritical institution" and accused some of its bishops of corruption for allegedly asking favors from politicians, including him.

    Another article in GMA News Online says that he will reveal 'the secrets and sins of the clergy', and that some bishops had allegedly asked for vehicles. In response, Archbishop Socrates Villegas said 'killing, adultery, and vulgarity can be considered corruption', and Archbishop Emeritus Oscar Cruz said that the SUVs in question 'had been used for charity'.

    Interesting days ahead, it seems.


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