Ongoing religious scandals

ohnonotgmail

recedite wrote: »

Its 8 years since she retired in 2011, so that makes her a bit of a slow learner. But I suppose she has to spend her €141K state pension on something, so it might as well be on living the high life in the Vatican.
And I suppose there is no point rushing it, if she is enjoying it.


I don't have a doctorate, sure I'm only a semi-literate.

She did a masters before her doctorate. Though i suppose you dont really care about that, preferring cheap shots.

recedite

If you fundamentally disagreed with RCC doctrine, would you spend your retirement years studying at one of their colleges in Rome?
I can think of lots of things I'd do if I had €141K of free money from the Irish taxpayer per year.
But enrolling in a Vatican college is not one of them.

ohnonotgmail

recedite wrote: »

If you fundamentally disagreed with RCC doctrine, would you spend your retirement years studying at one of their colleges in Rome?
I can think of lots of things I'd do if I had €141K of free money from the taxpayer per year.
But enrolling in a Vatican college is not one of them.

I'm sure she really cares about your opinion.

recedite

I doubt she is even aware of my opinion, or yours.
But that is completely irrelevant to the discussion here.

smacl

recedite wrote: »

If you fundamentally disagreed with RCC doctrine, would you spend your retirement years studying at one of their colleges in Rome?
I can think of lots of things I'd do if I had €141K of free money from the Irish taxpayer per year.
But enrolling in a Vatican college is not one of them.

So what's your objection precisely, that she gets such a large pension or how she chooses to spend it? From a left wing perspective, I can certainly see the argument for capping any state pension, but how anyone chooses to spend their own time or money beyond that is clearly their own choice. Also not sure how a pension is considered free money, I would have considered part of an overall salary deal.

Hotblack Desiato

Religious congregations indemnity deal was ‘a blank cheque’, says Michael McDowell

The State “effectively signed a blank cheque” in agreeing the controversial 2002 indemnity deal with 18 religious congregations, the then attorney general Michael McDowell has said.

Under the deal the congregations paid €128 million in return for a State indemnity against all future actions by people who, as children, had been in institutions run by them. Compensation so far has cost the State more than €1.4 billion.

In a new RTE documentary, Rome v Republic, to be broadcast next week Thursday, Mr McDowell says he and senior ministers were kept out of the negotiations.

Describing the deal agreed during the “dying days” of the 2002 Fianna Fail-Progressive Democrats administration, Mr McDowell said then minister for education Michael Woods effectively capped the liability of the religious orders.

“The simple fact of the matter is that the result was that the State effectively signed a blank cheque which cost us €1.4 billion in the end, in exchange for a promise of a contribution of €128 million from the religious orders,” he says.

How on earth was a Minister for Education allowed to make what turned out to be a massive financial commitment on behalf of the state without even a Cabinet meeting, never mind a Dail vote? IIRC that administration had already called a general election at the time.

Religious congregations yet to meet redress commitments made in 2002 and 2009

So far, the 18 religious congregations who ran the orphanages, reformatories and industrial schools have yet to fully fulfil the terms of the 2002 indemnity deal and of later offers they made to the State.

Of the €128 million they agreed to pay at the time, €4.21 million (3 per cent) is still outstanding. Negotiations over the handover of remaining properties is continuing.

More significantly, following publication of the Ryan report in May 2009, all 18 congregations were called in by the government of the day and asked to increase their contributions to redress costs.

It followed a recommendation by Mr Justice Sean Ryan in his report that the congregations pay half the costs of redress, with the taxpayer paying the rest.

Combined, the congregations offered a further €352.61 million, of which €103.17 has been paid over (in cash and property), or 29 per cent. Negotiations are continuing over the transfer of ownership of nine properties.

The redress scheme has cost the taxpayer €1.5 billion with 15,579 people, who had been in institutions managed by the 18 congregations as children, receiving awards which averaged €62,250 each.

Odhinn

Poes law applies here I think.

Former Pope Benedict has blamed the Catholic Church’s sexual abuse scandal on the effects of the sexual revolution of the 1960s and a general collapse in morality…
“Among the freedoms that the Revolution of 1968 sought to fight for was this all-out sexual freedom, one which no longer conceded any norms,” he wrote…
He said the spread of explicit sex education for young schoolchildren and nudity in advertising had contributed to a loosening of moral bearings.

https://www.broadsheet.ie/2019/04/11/its-not-our-fault/?fbclid=IwAR32--nD93z30Gu5J130i3Slk8HgNu6F4a2tpbvB_vQeV-a2TZm_oV3lD7A

robindch

A few days ago, a service took place which recalled the state's apology, twenty years ago, to survivors of abuse in residential institutions.

The service took place in St Patrick's Cathedral - the well-known protestant church.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/awe-at-dignity-and-humanity-abuse-survivors-commemorate-state-apology-1.3889308

robindch

Meanwhile, catholic institutions have yet to follow through on the indemnity deal from 2002 and updates from 2009 and the state remains some hundreds of millions of euros short:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/religious-congregations-yet-to-fully-honour-compensation-deals-1.3887870

Hotblack Desiato

One Mr B Ahern had a few things to say on the matter:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/bertie-ahern-state-s-1999-apology-to-abused-children-was-absolutely-necessary-1.3887799

I didn’t think that there was going to be a campaign by legal people that put ads in Australia and Canada, America, and almost invite people to forward applications, which is what happened. I’m not too sure how much I agreed with that at the time. It was what happened and that grew the numbers and I know as a constituency politician that people who had short terms in an institution, or who had even very failed memories of time in an institution, came forward and received very large compensation. I suppose from experience in these things once you set them up you find it hard to control them.

Yeah, well not withstanding what I said, I think we were as generous as we could be, the State, [and] as head of one of those governments. And I think Michael Woods was being as sympathetic as he could be to the religious because he wasn’t trying to take assets that he believed they required for other purposes. And, in fairness, remember that most of our schools down through the years were on church land. Most of the community centres, most of the boy scouts, the girl guides were on church lands. So the religious had not been ungenerous to the State down through the years, and to hospitals and all the other organisations. So I thought that [2002] was a fair deal.

Yes, governments did these deals in good faith and I don’t believe either my government or Brian Cowen’s government were being unduly unfair on them. So I think they were duty bound to honour them and honour both of them. Honour what was negotiated in both cases.

robindch

A two-hour documentary has left Polish bishops, and it seems, much of the country "shellshocked by the sheer weight of evidence of abusing priests and church cover-ups, after years denying their church faced any Irish-style problems."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/poland-s-catholic-church-reeling-over-abuse-documentary-1.3894506

The documentary is available here, with subtitles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrUvQ3W3nV4

Hotblack Desiato

US bishop tells parents LGBTQ events harmful to children

On Saturday, Bishop Tobin tweeted: “A reminder that Catholics should not support or attend LGBTQ ‘Pride Month’ events held in June. They promote a culture and encourage activities that are contrary to Catholic faith and morals. They are especially harmful for children.”

Colm O’Gorman, whose abuse by Fr Sean Fortune and its cover-up led to the October 2005 Ferns report, the first statutory report into clerical child sex abuse in Ireland, responded “There’s shameless and then there is this guy.”

He retweeted a newspaper report from last year highlighting findings of a grand jury inquiry in Pittsburg diocese when Bishop Tobin was auxiliary bishop from 1992 to 1996. It found the bishop had been aware of the sexual abuse of children by priests but did nothing. He told the grand jury it was outside his area of responsibility.

The grand jury found that, over many decades in six Catholic dioceses in Pennsylvania, including Pittsburg, more than 300 priests had sexually abused more than 1,000 identifiable survivors.

“They lied, they covered up, they abandoned me and so many others to rape and abuse, and when we spoke out, they tried to damn us and silence us. Pretty clear who is ‘harmful to children’,” Mr O’Gorman tweeted.

robindch

^^^ It would be fair to say that Bishop Tobin has gone viral for all the wrong reasons - 90,000 comments at the time of writing, few of which supported the good Bishop:

https://twitter.com/ThomasJTobin1/status/1134784500372770817

Following his comments, Bishop Tobin posted a splendidly unapologetic unpology in which he said he regretted that what he said turned out to be controversial to many, and offensive to some. He also suggested that he wouldn't be attending an LGBT rally, but would send some hopes and prayers - presumably a safe distance away from his twitter account.

https://dioceseofprovidence.org/news/statement-of-bishop-tobin-on-pride

Biship Tobin wrote:

I regret that my comments yesterday about Pride Month have turned out to be so controversial in our community, and offensive to some, especially the gay community. That certainly was not my intention, but I understand why a good number of individuals have taken offense. I also acknowledge and appreciate the widespread support I have received on this matter.

The Catholic Church has respect and love for members of the gay community, as do I. Individuals with same-sex attraction are beloved children of God and our brothers and sisters. As a Catholic Bishop, however, my obligation before God is to lead the faithful entrusted to my care and to teach the faith, clearly and compassionately, even on very difficult and sensitive issues. That is what I have always tried to do - on a variety of issues - and I will continue doing so as contemporary issues arise.

As the gay community gathers for a rally this evening, I hope that the event will be a safe, positive and productive experience for all. As they gather I will be praying for a rebirth of mutual understanding and respect in our very diverse community.

robindch

The Holy Ghost Fathers, owners of Blackrock College have decided to flog a large plot of adjoining land - with estimates coming in around the €20 million mark.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/blackrock-college-site-seeks-offers-in-excess-of-20m-1.3903109

The Holy Ghost Fathers, aka the Spiritans, are not party to the Michael Wood's indemnity deal from 2002, and have avoided committing themselves to paying recompense to any of the people alleging that they were abused by Spiritan priests (here and here etc), by speaking, vaguely, thusly:

Irish Times wrote:

[...] the funds raised from the sale will be used to support the charitable work of the order, and to reduce debt within the province.

Odhinn

robindch wrote: »

The Holy Ghost Fathers, owners of Blackrock College have decided to flog a large plot of adjoining land - with estimates coming in around the €20 million mark.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/blackrock-college-site-seeks-offers-in-excess-of-20m-1.3903109

The Holy Ghost Fathers, aka the Spiritans, are not party to the Michael Wood's indemnity deal from 2002, and have avoided committing themselves to paying recompense to any of the people alleging that they were abused by Spiritan priests (here and here etc), by speaking, vaguely, thusly:

Your second "here" doesn't work.


One might add the name "Father" Ed Darcy to that list. He was certainly abusing boys in Ireland, and had been on the "missions" beforehand.

robindch

Odhinn wrote: »

Your second "here" doesn't work.

Hmm... swomehow a newline turned into half a 'br' tag... fixed now anyway

Odhinn wrote: »

On might add the name "Father" Ed Darcy to that list. He was certainly abusing boys in Ireland, and had been on the "missions" beforehand.

Reminds me of a wedding I was at years ago - some way through an exceedingly dull and rambling sermon, a friend leaned over to explain quietly that the priest was a friend of the family and, during his time in Africa, had contracted some form of brain rot while working as a missionary.

robindch: "And he occupied what precise position?"

For reasons I've never understood, my friend found this lame gag very funny and started giggling. Unfortunately, he's one of those guys with a highly infectious giggle and within a minute, the entire church of perhaps 150 people was convulsed in the quietest fit of laughter the world has ever seen, with just two people knowing why.

Hope he wasn't a Spiritan

Odhinn

robindch wrote: »

........................

Hope he wasn't a Spiritan

They're a vile bunch in my experience, but have massive wealth and influence due to the colleges they run. If it's a choice between the child and 'the brand', the brand wins everytime.

Peregrinus

robindch wrote: »

The Holy Ghost Fathers, owners of Blackrock College have decided to flog a large plot of adjoining land - with estimates coming in around the €20 million mark.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/blackrock-college-site-seeks-offers-in-excess-of-20m-1.3903109

The Holy Ghost Fathers, aka the Spiritans, are not party to the Michael Wood's indemnity deal from 2002, and have avoided committing themselves to paying recompense to any of the people alleging that they were abused by Spiritan priests (here and here etc), by speaking, vaguely . . .

The flip side of not being party to the indemnity deal is, of course, that they don't benefit from the indemnity, so are fully liable to meet any award of damages against them out of their own resources. They don't get to chose whether to pay recompense. As you rightly point out, the statement is vague about what the "debt within the province" is, but the sale proceeds are certainly available to satisfy any outstanding judgments against the province.

Odhinn

In the years before he was ousted for alleged sexual harassment and financial abuses, the leader of the Catholic Church in West Virginia gave cash gifts totaling $350,000 to fellow clergymen, including young priests he is accused of mistreating and more than a dozen cardinals in the United States and at the Vatican, according to church records obtained by The Washington Post.

The gifts — one as large as $15,000 — were detailed in a draft of a confidential report to the Vatican about the alleged misconduct that led to Bransfield’s resignation in September. The names of 11 powerful clerics who received checks were edited out of the final report at the request of the archbishop overseeing the investigation, William Lori of Baltimore.


Lori’s name was among those cut. He received a total of $10,500, records show.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/a-wva-bishop-spent-millions-on-himself-and-sent-cash-gifts-to-cardinals-and-to-young-priests-he-was-accused-of-mistreating-confidential-vatican-report-says/2019/06/05/98af7ae6-7686-11e9-b3f5-5673edf2d127_story.html?fbclid=IwAR0PBLlJTuft80koEFg35laezmtDMw9NDOHt6smydbO1EakzbRXCJXxuuf8&utm_term=.904f63205bac

robindch

The Wartburg Watch - named for the monastery in Eisenach, Germany, where Martin Luther once lived - is a website which operates as an eccentric clearing house for allegations of abuses, of all kinds, within protestant denominations:

http://thewartburgwatch.com/

The site recently appeared in a lengthy Washington Post article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/magazine/wp/2019/06/03/feature/the-crusading-bloggers-exposing-sexual-assault-in-protestant-churches/

Hotblack Desiato

Invitation to priest who blames autism on parents ‘should be withdrawn’

An invitation sent to controversial priest Fr Dominic Valanmahal to lead a retreat in Ireland should be withdrawn, Archbishop of Dublin Diarmuid Martin has said.

A priest of the Eastern Syro-Malabar Catholic Church, which is based at Kerela in India and has about 4,000 members in Ireland, Fr Valanmahal has been preaching that the increased incidence of autism and hyperactivity in children is due to their parents’ lifestyle.

Members of the church worship at Dublin centres in Tallaght, Lucan, Blanchardstown, Phibsborough, Inchicore, Bray, Blackrock, Swords, and Beaumont

“Why does this generation have autism and hyperactivity? That is to say, mentally retarded children are in abundance,” Fr Valanmahal asked in a sermon.

“Adultery, masturbation, homosexuality, porn, if you are addicted to these , I say to you in the name of God,...when you get married and have children, there is a high possibility of bearing these type of children,” he said.

“They lead an animal-like life. They copulate like animals. They bear children like animals. Therefore those children also, will be like animals,” he said.

Meanwhile, a petition has been launched by members of the Syro-Malabar community in Ireland calling on Minister for Justice Charlie Flanagan to have Fr Valanmahal banned from entering the country.

A member of the group told The Irish Times they were doing so as “this kind of personality should not be allowed to do anymore harm to the people living in Ireland”.

They added: “I believe our children, families should never hear another preaching from this priest.”

The petition is “supported by Indian emigrants in Ireland. I would like to let Irish people know about this as this kind of false preaching will affect the whole nation and it is a social nuisance,” the person said.

BadTurtle

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/church-goers-stunned-kilkenny-priest-16501932.amp

Church goers stunned as Kilkenny priest compares gay people to infected zombies
Brother Tom Forde suggested those who believe in contraception and abortion are 'morally rotten' and the 'living dead'

Church goers were stunned when a priest compared gay people and those who have sex before marriage to infected zombies.

In his homily to parishioners last weekend in the Friary in Co Kilkenny, Brother Tom Forde suggested those who believe in contraception and abortion are “morally rotten” and the “living dead”.


The homily read: “I begin this homily with an embarrassing admission. It may destroy whatever respect you have for me.

“You may decide to disregard everything I say now and in the future. But there is a point to my admission and I ask you to be patient with me. I am a little odd. I like zombies.”

He said: “We see this when the mask slips and someone we thought a friend is revealed as a fiend, full of anger, spite, malice, lust or pride we had not seen before. We see it in self-destructive, irrational behaviour.

“It is visible in the abuse of drugs and alcohol, in adultery, fornication and homosexuality (and there are other unnameable behaviours). As well as in acceptance of abortion and contraception and in the move to legalise euthanasia.

“In the zombie genre once you’re bitten you’re infected and there’s no hope. The only way to deal with the monsters is to stab or shoot them in the brain for otherwise they are merciless relentless and unstoppable.

“Zombies, thank God, do not actually exist but I would suggest, spiritual-zombie hood does.”

It is understood a number of people got up and left the mass last Saturday. When contacted to explain his views by the Irish Mirror, the secretary of the Capuchin Friary in Kilkenny said: “He [Brother Forde] has nothing to explain. There will be no comment.”

Following the mass, Brother Forde posted his homily to his blog page – but it has now been deleted. The Irish Mirror saw the two-page speech, which included a photo of zombies and was titled: “The living dead are all around us and Christ alone has the cure: the Holy Spirit.”

Brother Forde continued to say that being obedient to Christ was the only cure for those “infected”.

What a gob****e.

Pherekydes

That's brilliant! The homily should be read out at every mass, until the churches are empty.

smacl

BadTurtle wrote: »

“Zombies, thank God, do not actually exist”

Apart from Jesus that is. Let's not forget Jesus. :pac:

nozzferrahhtoo

Is Jesus a kind of reverse zombie? After all Zombies come back from the dead and try to eat the flesh of others.

Jesus came back from the dead and ties to get the others to eat his.

Seth Brundle

Religious order wanted abuse records destroyed

A religious order that accepted that children were abused in its care told the Minister for Education in 2015 that plans to retain child abuse records would lead to “eternal besmirching of the names of good people”.

Provincial of the Rosminians, Fr Joseph O’Reilly, wrote to then education minister Jan O’Sullivan in 2015 to express his shock at the Government’s plans to retain and seal records relating to child abuse in institutions for 75 years under the Retention of Records Bill.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/religious-order-wanted-abuse-records-destroyed-930466.html

Hotblack Desiato

Amateurs. The nuns have the mysterious fire thing down pat.

Hotblack Desiato

Bishop apologises over priest’s homily comparing gay people to zombies

In a statement on Thursday, posted on the Ossory diocesan website, Bishop Farrell said that, as well as being saddened at the language used and sentiments expressed by Fr Forde, he was “saddened too that a liturgy was used to convey any sentiment so at variance with our understanding of God”.

“Words can hurt and care needs to be taken by all, in all situations, so as not to alienate, hurt or cause offence,” the bishop said.

He also welcomed “the statement of the Capuchin order expressing their deep regret [over the incident] and their strong reaffirmation of their welcome of all people. I know the affection in which they are held by the people of Kilkenny.

“I express our appreciation for the Capuchins’ service of the most vulnerable [in Kilkenny and beyond], and I thank them for outlining clearly their views on the good news of the inclusion of all.”

On Wednesday the Capuchins in Kilkenny said in a statement that Fr Forde’s homily “which had been published as a blog is no longer posted online”.

“On reflection Fr Tom removed the blog as it was not his intention to cause hurt to anyone,” the statement said.

It continued: “The Capuchin order wishes to state that all are welcome in our churches, irrespective of sexual orientation. Unfortunate comments were made about homosexuality last Saturday, which gay people would have found hurtful, and we deeply regret this.

“When asked about gay people, Pope Francis has said: ‘Who am I to judge?’ And speaking to a gay man at an audience in the Vatican he said: ‘God made you like this and he loves you.’

“We support Pope Francis in his comments on gay people and we will continue to be guided by him and by our own mission statement, which states that ‘we affirm that our fraternities will be places of prayer, hospitality and outreach to all’.”

Oopsie.

Seth Brundle

BadTurtle wrote: »

“In the zombie genre once you’re bitten you’re infected and there’s no hope. The only way to deal with the monsters is to stab or shoot them in the brain for otherwise they are merciless relentless and unstoppable.

“Zombies, thank God, do not actually exist but I would suggest, spiritual-zombie hood does.”

Could this cretin's speech be deemed as incitement to hatred or even incitement to murder?

robindch

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Could this cretin's speech be deemed as incitement to hatred or even incitement to murder?

More of an incitement to laughter really.