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Exorcism in Christianity

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    #32
    Hugo Drax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 358 ✭✭Hugo Drax


    Furet wrote: »
    Although I don't believe in the supernatural, I'm nevertheless very interested in other people's beliefs about it.

    I read this article today:




    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/no-rest-for-the-wicked-until--chief-exorcists-work-is-done-2098355.html

    I found this fascinating. Would almost all Christians generally share Fr Amorth's views and beliefs regarding evil spirits?

    He is on record as stating categorically that both Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin were possessed, and that all that followed was the work of the devil. The same, he says, goes for paedophile priests.

    Theologically, would most Christians concur with this? Or do many Christians alternatively believe that deeds characterized as evil can be the work not of demons influencing people, but simply the product of a deranged personality?

    I believe some people are just plain evil and that can be said to be the work of the Devil if you like, just as at Baptism most of us "reject Satan and all his works" there are those who plainly embrace him.

    I believe saying that a serial killer for example, is mentally ill is just a cop out and allows him to abrogate responsibility.

    Some people are just born bad.

    It's quite clear in Catholicism that belief in God requires belief in the Devil.

    Haven't you seen "The Usual Suspects"?

    The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist....


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    #33
    vodafoneproblem
    Closed Accounts Posts: 344 ✭✭vodafoneproblem


    Furet wrote: »
    Although I don't believe in the supernatural, I'm nevertheless very interested in other people's beliefs about it.

    I read this article today:




    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/no-rest-for-the-wicked-until--chief-exorcists-work-is-done-2098355.html

    I found this fascinating. Would almost all Christians generally share Fr Amorth's views and beliefs regarding evil spirits?

    He is on record as stating categorically that both Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin were possessed, and that all that followed was the work of the devil. The same, he says, goes for paedophile priests.

    Theologically, would most Christians concur with this? Or do many Christians alternatively believe that deeds characterized as evil can be the work not of demons influencing people, but simply the product of a deranged personality?

    Well, as others have said, it's specifically mentioned in the bible about Jesus driving out demons. Also, some of the Saints have mentioned having encounters. Have read some books, including the actual case that the movie "The Exorcist" was based on, called "Possessed" by Thomas Allen, on it in the past and it's scary stuff. Not bed-time reading, that's for sure! Just started The Dark Sacrament, which is about 9 seperate cases in Ireland, today. Another one I have is The Vatican's Exorcists by journalist Tracey Wilkinson which talks about Fr. Amorth among others.

    I don't know if Hitler and Stalin were possessed. I tend to think of it as a rare thing that's accompanied by visible Scary Goings On but who knows. One thing's for sure, though, it's hard to read some of the books on it and come away unaffected.


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    #34
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    Its too easy a trap to fall into to assume that really bad people are possessed when clearly they are not. Certainly the suggestion that for example Hitler was possessed, doesnt make sense to me in the context of what the devil is purportedly out to achieve with possession, to turn people away from God. Some people are just evil people.

    I dont agree with many of Fr. Amorth's comments about modern day evils such as Harry Potter etc. From a catholic perspective, magic of any sort, black or white, is satanic in origin. BUt that doesnt mean that anyone who reads and enjoys Harry Potter is satanic or at risk of influence by all things nasty!


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    #35
    Portia 27
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭Portia 27


    faceman wrote: »
    Its too easy a trap to fall into to assume that really bad people are possessed when clearly they are not. Certainly the suggestion that for example Hitler was possessed, doesnt make sense to me in the context of what the devil is purportedly out to achieve with possession, to turn people away from God. Some people are just evil people.

    I dont agree with many of Fr. Amorth's comments about modern day evils such as Harry Potter etc. From a catholic perspective, magic of any sort, black or white, is satanic in origin. BUt that doesnt mean that anyone who reads and enjoys Harry Potter is satanic or at risk of influence by all things nasty!

    Yes, I agree- it is a cop out, an excuse used by some in society when they want to deny that some people do evil deeds.Then responsibility is displaced.

    Then the excuse is used...God made me do it. Satan made me do it.

    The Catholic church has a reason for that, as they do not like people to reach their full potential and wake up to the lie re good V evil, man V woman.
    This is hoow Patriarchy works- divide and rule.

    All those people asking why did god allow all this sufering?

    God did not create all the suffering and allow us as a planet to suffer.

    God did not come down off his fluffy cloud and murder fellow humans.

    Satan did not come up from the fiery pits of hell and cause all the murder and abuse and torture either.

    WE HUMANS DID IT TO EACH OTHER.


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    #36
    Portia 27
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭Portia 27


    faceman wrote: »
    Its too easy a trap to fall into to assume that really bad people are possessed when clearly they are not. Certainly the suggestion that for example Hitler was possessed, doesnt make sense to me in the context of what the devil is purportedly out to achieve with possession, to turn people away from God. Some people are just evil people.

    I dont agree with many of Fr. Amorth's comments about modern day evils such as Harry Potter etc. From a catholic perspective, magic of any sort, black or white, is satanic in origin. BUt that doesnt mean that anyone who reads and enjoys Harry Potter is satanic or at risk of influence by all things nasty!


    Ah but Exorcism is BUSINESS.£££££££££££

    All he has to do is convince people that the devil is inside them and needs to be exorcised and off he goes.

    Like any salesman, he seels you what you think you need, and performs open wallet surgery in doing so.

    The victim would look like right idiot to ask for his or her money back, so they dont.


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    #37
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    Eh, since when does the Catholic church demand payment for exorcisms, be they sanctioned or not??


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    #38
    Portia 27
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭Portia 27


    faceman wrote: »
    Eh, since when does the Catholic church demand payment for exorcisms, be they sanctioned or not??

    In the same manner that Catholics pay for mass cards, masses for the dead, baptism etc.

    Sheeple willingly give money to the men in dressses because they are so brainwashed to believe that these men do the work of god.


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