Is it time to cull the welfare state?

IrishManSaipan

I would like to start a discussion on the viability of the Irish welfare state if I may.

I believe as a country, we have two choices. Either enter debt enslavement for eternity or stand on our own two feet. The country is borrowing 500 million each and every week, just to keep the show on the road. The Department of Finance predicts it will take in 34 billion euro in tax revenue. My calculator says it wont break 29. This is simply unsustainable.

The sense of entitlement in this country is unbelievable. From farmers to bankers. From students to politicians. They seem to think the state is their personal cash cow.Is it time to cull the welfare state? If not, how do we continue to pay for it?

Joey the lips

Awaiting usual after hours answer!

MaybeLogic

I agree. We need a cull.
Enforced euthanasia after the age of 65 should keep the bills down to a managable level.

mikom

Palm flowers for everyone.

bleg

Legalised abortion would cut down on little welfare brats and a fall in crime in 15-20 years time.

donkey balls

MaybeLogic wrote: »

I agree. We need a cull.
Enforced euthanasia after the age of 65 should keep the bills down to a managable level.

nah leave it till they hit the new retirement age of 68 this way we get an extra 3 years of tax&prsi contributions off them;)and we could bring in another rule that their pensions they contributed too over the years are handed over to the state:D

ejmaztec

Firing squads down the dole office, mass sterilisation, Zyklon B, more Zyklon B, mass Easter crucifixions..........................................

IrishManSaipan

bleg wrote: »

Legalised abortion would cut down on little welfare brats and a fall in crime in 15-20 years time.

If a bird can get up the pole after just nine minutes, she can wait a further nine months to get back down it.

MaybeLogic

ejmaztec wrote: »

Firing squads down the dole office, mass sterilisation, Zyklon B, more Zyklon B, mass Easter crucifixions..........................................

The last time I saw a proper cull was during the foot and mouth crisis, so I propose a helicopter hovering outside the welfare office, with a sniper taking out the doleheads as they make their monthly signing.

smellslikeshoes

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/56344/107366.jpg

This comes up here so often it hurts my head.

Do you not realise eliminating the dole would see the country overrun in burglaries, robbings, beatings, etc. as people scramble for money (and as much as I love the Gardaì, I still maintain we have the most useless law enforcement system in the world).

Cutting down on Social Welfare is a good idea. An idea I recommend we enforce... when we're out of recession or jobs become available.

Having it overly high during 'good times' and then cutting it when people need it won't work.

Rebelheart

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

I would like to start a discussion on the viability of the Irish welfare state if I may.

I believe as a country, we have two choices. Either enter debt enslavement for eternity or stand on our own two feet. The country is borrowing 500 million each and every week, just to keep the show on the road. The Department of Finance predicts it will take in 34 billion euro in tax revenue. My calculator says it wont break 29. This is simply unsustainable.

The sense of entitlement in this country is unbelievable. From farmers to bankers. From students to politicians. They seem to think the state is their personal cash cow.Is it time to cull the welfare state? If not, how do we continue to pay for it?

Would that be the corporate welfare state or the social welfare state?

DonJose

Cull Mary Harney and sell her blubber to the Japanese!!! [/recession]

Jesus Wept

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

Is it time to cull the welfare state?

How?

Just switch it off? Try that and see what would follow.

Do you have a proposal as to how?

IrishManSaipan

Rebelheart wrote: »

Would that be the corporate welfare state or the social welfare state?

Both.

IrishManSaipan

The-Rigger wrote: »

How?

Just switch it off? Try that and see what would follow.

Do you have a proposal as to how?

I will type up my ten point plan before the end of this evening.

kdave

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

Is it time to cull the welfare state?

What welfare state?

Jesus Wept

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

I will type up my ten point plan before the end of this evening.

Will there be donuts?

bonerm

I can definetly see a correlation between a safer and more secure society while the have-nots are given a decent weekly handout. I think this country would go to hell in handcart (even moreso) if we started cutting benefits. I don't begrudge the current levels and actually think of it as a decent investment in terms of just keeping the dregs in check somewhat.

As such I'd be more in favour of culling the people who live of SW than culling the SW itself. Perhaps we could set up some sort of reward scheme for single mothers and dole scroungers who DON'T have seemingly endless litters of children. Cash prizes for abortions etc.

IrishManSaipan

The-Rigger wrote: »

Will there be donuts?

Iced and chocolate.

Jesus Wept

I prefer jam and ring.

I presume they aren't free anyhow.

IrishManSaipan

bonerm wrote: »

I can definetly see a correlation between a safer and more secure society while the have-nots are given a decent weekly handout. I think this country would go to hell in handcart (even moreso) if we started cutting benefits. I don't begrudge the current levels and actually think of it as a decent investment in terms of just keeping the dregs in check somewhat.

As such I'd be more in favour of culling the people who live of SW than culling the SW itself. Perhaps we could set up some sort of reward scheme for single mothers and dole scroungers who DON'T have seemingly endless litters of children. Cash prizes for abortions etc.

Wheres this cash going to come from? I refer you to me signature.

Cookie_Monster

the dole could be set so that it reduces 10% every year (or 6 months and so forth) you are on it.
could do something similar with other "benefits".

Cookie_Monster

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

the dole could be set so that it reduces 10% every year (or 6 months and so forth) you are on it.
could do something similar with other "benefits".

Until what? Everyone's dole runs out and everyone become a criminal?


If there are no jobs to go to, there is no way will people accept welfare cuts. (Of course there is always the boardsies that seem to believe there are endless amounts of jobs out there, but people are too lazy to look for them :rolleyes:).

tbaymusicman

Well it's the usual case of some people taking advantage of what can in most cases be a great help to people temporary in between jobs or suddenly let go from employment!i understand some people will gladly stay on the dole for ever if allowed and i know some young girls think they can just get preggers and let the state pay for everything!!The fact is people who have worked for a long time myself included have lost jobs and are now in need of there stamps that we have built up so should that be stopped?:O

Cookie_Monster

Deleted User wrote: »

(Of course there is always the boardsies that seem to believe there are endless amounts of jobs out there, but people are too lazy to look for them :rolleyes:).

there are endless amounts of jobs out there, but people are too lazy to look for them.

moonpurple

bonerm wrote: »

I can definetly see a correlation between a safer and more secure society while the have-nots are given a decent weekly handout. I think this country would go to hell in handcart (even moreso) if we started cutting benefits. I don't begrudge the current levels and actually think of it as a decent investment in terms of just keeping the dregs in check somewhat.

As such I'd be more in favour of culling the people who live of SW than culling the SW itself. Perhaps we could set up some sort of reward scheme for single mothers and dole scroungers who DON'T have seemingly endless litters of children. Cash prizes for abortions etc.

the dregs!

like that fella born in a stable in a nazerath, nailed to some wood some years later, looooser, feared nothing and regarded all as equals, what a nutter, knew it would all happen before hand and still he faced it, what a do gooder tree hugger and probably a fan of welfare that protects vulnerable people, crazy man

Mrmoe

In stead of giving cash to welfare recipients a voucher system should be introduced. This will allow people to get the necessary items that they need to survive and removing the situation where people spend the money on spurious tems like drinking and smoking. If you don't like the situation and you want to buy luxuries then you will be forced to get a job.

This might open a black market system where vouchers are traded for other luxury items but if it is well regulated this could be avoided. Using this method nobody can complain about the price of the dole being too high as all they are getting are their basic needs provided for with no frivilous spending.

admiralofthefleet

mike

bonerm

moonpurple wrote: »

the dregs!

like that fella born in a stable in a nazerath, nailed to some wood some years later, looooser, feared nothing and regarded all as equals, what a nutter, knew it would all happen before hand and still he faced it, what a do gooder tree hugger and probably a fan of welfare that protects vulnerable people, crazy man

Wow, he sounds brilliant! Who was he?

Mrmoe

Mrmoe wrote: »

In stead of giving cash to welfare recipients a voucher system should be introduced. This will allow people to get the necessary items that they need to survive and removing the situation where people spend the money on spurious tems like drinking and smoking. If you don't like the situation and you want to buy luxuries then you will be forced to get a job.

This might open a black market system where vouchers are traded for other luxury items but if it is well regulated this could be avoided. Using this method nobody can complain about the price of the dole being too high as all they are getting are their basic needs provided for with no frivilous spending.

This was brought up before and went nowhere.

How do you decide what people can and can't buy? What stores can the vouchers be used in? What about the items that people need to get by?

It's all good and well to be able to go to Tesco and get some food (though the govt. could never get away with that, as they wouldn't be 'supporting irish retailers') and whatever store did get thr govt. voucher deal would just up it's prices. Competition between stores would be crushed, meaning stores similar to those that were able to use vouchers would close up (equalling more unemployment) and there'd be a serious Hierarchial issue with stores that have govt. approval being at the top.


There'd also be the moaning that people shouldn't be allowed buy luxury items. What if your TV breaks? You need a new one (and in Ireland a TV is an investment for the govt. anyway as they can suck the TV license money out of you for years to come) and what if you ruin your shoes?

What about people who work in specialist areas and whose jobs would be considered to require luxury items. An out of work photographer damages his gear for example. Do we stop him from buying new cameras, lenses etc. as they're luxury items he can live without? He needs a camera to get work, so maybe we should let him have it?

What about the Joe Soaps that want to get into photography? Do we not allow them cameras and tell them they aren't allowed learn about it until they get a job?

(photography just came off the top of my head, im sure there are other examples).


A voucher system wouldn't work and considering people would be embarrassed using vouchers in shops, etc. I doubt many people would go for it.

Nice idea in theory, impossible in practice.

moonpurple

ejmaztec wrote: »

Firing squads down the dole office, mass sterilisation, Zyklon B, more Zyklon B, mass Easter crucifixions..........................................

zyklon b was used in 1941 in germany to kill the german disabled, but they discontinued the practice and have a society widely admired today,

Tigger

Mrmoe wrote: »

In stead of giving cash to welfare recipients a voucher system should be introduced. This will allow people to get the necessary items that they need to survive and removing the situation where people spend the money on spurious tems like drinking and smoking. If you don't like the situation and you want to buy luxuries then you will be forced to get a job.

This might open a black market system where vouchers are traded for other luxury items but if it is well regulated this could be avoided. Using this method nobody can complain about the price of the dole being too high as all they are getting are their basic needs provided for with no frivilous spending.

child welfare spent on childs stuff etc

i'm always saying this in real life

also only useable in the state so no more dolies (by this i mean the dole for life crew) buying all thier drink fags and tracksuits up north

Tigger

moonpurple wrote: »

zyklon b was used in 1941 in germany to kill the german disabled, but they discontinued the practice and have a society widely admired today,

brilliant

MikeC101

bonerm wrote: »

Wow, he sounds brilliant! Who was he?

I think his name was Brian.

moonpurple

MaybeLogic wrote: »

The last time I saw a proper cull was during the foot and mouth crisis, so I propose a helicopter hovering outside the welfare office, with a sniper taking out the doleheads as they make their monthly signing.

doleheads? many doleheds today are third level educated, hard work isnt a gaurantee just now of employment

MaybeLogic

moonpurple wrote: »

doleheads? many doleheds today are third level educated, hard work isnt a gaurantee just now of employment

Ok. I'll take that on board.
But I still advocate shooting them from a helicopter, regardless.

rossie1977

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

I believe as a country, we have two choices. Either enter debt enslavement for eternity or stand on our own two feet.?

ireland is never going to pay off its debt, not this century not ever

the 78billion in your signature is just a tip of the iceberg, the real figure is nearly $2 trillion ($1.8 trillion to be exact)

moonpurple

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

the dole could be set so that it reduces 10% every year (or 6 months and so forth) you are on it.
could do something similar with other "benefits".

yes and special needs members of society could eventually just die from neglect and starvation,good on you, lets get em all

fishtastico

The solution is to sell Limerick

rossie1977

fishtastico wrote: »

The solution is to sell Limerick

i say sell mayo, they got gold, oil and gas there and mayo people are not irish anyway more a subhuman race (the fellas) :P the mayo girls can come live in roscommon :cool:

Dudess

MaybeLogic wrote: »

I agree. We need a cull.
Enforced euthanasia after the age of 65 should keep the bills down to a managable level.

That old? Are you crazy? It should be a Logan's Run type operation, with single mothers as top priority.

MaybeLogic

Dudess wrote: »

That old? Are you crazy? It should be a Logan's Run type operation, with single mothers as top priority.

Logan's Run?
I'd be dead already.

Mrmoe

Deleted User wrote: »

This was brought up before and went nowhere.

How do you decide what people can and can't buy? What stores can the vouchers be used in? What about the items that people need to get by?

It's all good and well to be able to go to Tesco and get some food (though the govt. could never get away with that, as they wouldn't be 'supporting irish retailers') and whatever store did get thr govt. voucher deal would just up it's prices. Competition between stores would be crushed, meaning stores similar to those that were able to use vouchers would close up (equalling more unemployment) and there'd be a serious Hierarchial issue with stores that have govt. approval being at the top.


There'd also be the moaning that people shouldn't be allowed buy luxury items. What if your TV breaks? You need a new one (and in Ireland a TV is an investment for the govt. anyway as they can suck the TV license money out of you for years to come) and what if you ruin your shoes?

What about people who work in specialist areas and whose jobs would be considered to require luxury items. An out of work photographer damages his gear for example. Do we stop him from buying new cameras, lenses etc. as they're luxury items he can live without? He needs a camera to get work, so maybe we should let him have it?

What about the Joe Soaps that want to get into photography? Do we not allow them cameras and tell them they aren't allowed learn about it until they get a job?

(photography just came off the top of my head, im sure there are other examples).


A voucher system wouldn't work and considering people would be embarrassed using vouchers in shops, etc. I doubt many people would go for it.

Nice idea in theory, impossible in practice.

I agree with certain points that you are making. The way things are at the moment the government is more likely to screw things up than to get an efficient voucher system operating. There might be a lot of loop holes in the system but I think it could be better than the system we currently have. You could even make it a reward based system. If you do a course or some other type of training you could be allowed additional vouchers.

The type of vouchers I would envision would be fairly unrestricted vouchers with the exception that alcohol and tobacco products could not be purchased. These are luxury items as far as I am concerned. With regard to embarrassment , this can be a good thing. It might eventually drive them to go and find work.

For people looking to take up a hobby they can do so if they budget their resources. What about all the people who work who would also like to take up photography but can't afford that snazzy new SLR digital camera? Should people who are unemployed get an automatic right to training or equipment that employed people do not?

greendom

Keep the Welfare State

More equal societies always do better

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/non-fiction/article5859108.ece

Mike 1972

Mrmoe wrote: »

The type of vouchers I would envision would be fairly unrestricted vouchers with the exception that alcohol and tobacco products could not be purchased.

Years ago there was a shop back home which used to accepty butter vouchers as payment for everything from lollipops to cider.

IrishManSaipan

rossie1977 wrote: »

ireland is never going to pay off its debt, not this century not ever

the 78billion in your signature is just a tip of the iceberg, the real figure is nearly $2 trillion ($1.8 trillion to be exact)

Time to default and leave the EU.

Tigger

Deleted User wrote: »

This was brought up before and went nowhere.

How do you decide what people can and can't buy? What stores can the vouchers be used in? What about the items that people need to get by?

It's all good and well to be able to go to Tesco and get some food (though the govt. could never get away with that, as they wouldn't be 'supporting irish retailers') and whatever store did get thr govt. voucher deal would just up it's prices. Competition between stores would be crushed, meaning stores similar to those that were able to use vouchers would close up (equalling more unemployment) and there'd be a serious Hierarchial issue with stores that have govt. approval being at the top.


There'd also be the moaning that people shouldn't be allowed buy luxury items. What if your TV breaks? You need a new one (and in Ireland a TV is an investment for the govt. anyway as they can suck the TV license money out of you for years to come) and what if you ruin your shoes?

What about people who work in specialist areas and whose jobs would be considered to require luxury items. An out of work photographer damages his gear for example. Do we stop him from buying new cameras, lenses etc. as they're luxury items he can live without? He needs a camera to get work, so maybe we should let him have it?

What about the Joe Soaps that want to get into photography? Do we not allow them cameras and tell them they aren't allowed learn about it until they get a job?

(photography just came off the top of my head, im sure there are other examples).


A voucher system wouldn't work and considering people would be embarrassed using vouchers in shops, etc. I doubt many people would go for it.

Nice idea in theory, impossible in practice.

you go to the welfare and ask for a voucher to fix your gear
and yes if you have no job you shouldn't get money to spend on faffing around with ca,eras
however you should be able to go to camera tech education = teech a man to fish
dole = give a man fish and chips for after his beers

cleremy jarkson

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

Time to default and leave the EU.

And switch to the punt I presume? We can't do this because our external debt's are in euro, so if we switch to a new Irish Punt we'll have to use this to purchase euro's first and then pay back the debt. Thing is though, if we do leave the euro, the Punt would likely be viewed as a very weak currency so paying back the debt will take far far longer.

Millicent

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

If a bird can get up the pole after just nine minutes, she can wait a further nine months to get back down it.

Nine minutes to get up a pole? Is it an ostrich or something? I don't understand, why wouldn't it just fly?

IrishManSaipan

Millicent wrote: »

Nine minutes to get up a pole? Is it an ostrich or something? I don't understand, why wouldn't it just fly?

Hi Milli,

I was referring to girls who avail of abortions after a drunken rumble the month before.

Back on topic......