Railway Lunacy from Your Country Your Call

Judgement Day

Tourist Mini Railway in the Phoenix Park
D2884 : Tourism & Hospitality Submitted by Eireanidea 3 hours ago Status: Under Consideration
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Our Phoenix Park i.e. the largest Public City Park in Europe, is a wonderful historic location which continues to be a splendid amenity for both us and for our tourist guests. With the help of our very able Office of Public Works (i.e. through a public or public/private works programme) we could enhance the Phoenix Park to make it an even greater contributor towards the long term development of what for us is a key industry i.e. tourism.

Trains; lots of people both young and old are already fascinated with conventional railway. However, miniature or unusual type railways have a particular allure and fascination all of their own.

The shape and layout of our present day Phoenix Park provides us with potentially two alternative route opportunities for the development of unusual train oriented tourist features.

Chesterfield Avenue i.e. the Phoenix Park’s main road is a 4.2km (2.5ml) straight alignment i.e. 8.4km (5ml) round trip. A route around the periphery of the park could be measured at approx: 12.38km (7.69ml).


Option 1:

Utilising the straight alignment along both sides of Chesterfield Avenue tastefully design an above tree top mini mono electric railway. The supporting pillars of which would be designed in complimentary style to the pillars of the gas lamps which currently adorn the main avenue.

The all weather mono rail electric train (i.e. two vehicles, ten passengers per vehicle) would run e.g. from an elevated traversing station at the Cunningham Road Gates end of the park within a clear glass viewing tunnel up along Chesterfield Avenue to a similar elevated traversing station at the Castleknock Gates end of the park at which point the train would automatically be switched across Chesterfield Avenue to the opposite track and return to the Cunningham Road end of the park via the clear glass viewing tunnel on that side. Two trains would operate on the system at all times each leaving simultaneously from the traversing station at either end of the park.

Trains would automatically stop at strategic points en route to allow visitors to hear snippets of narrated Phoenix Park history and to view related points of interest.

The project could be designed with a Georgian theme and elegance so as to be in keeping with the general ambiance of the Phoenix Park.


Option 2:

Utilising the alignment along the periphery of the Phoenix Park lay track work for a mini single line narrow gauge railway. The railway could be designed for operation by steam, diesel or electric mini locomotives. The route could include tunnels and mini stations and could be designed e.g. to emerge via tunnel into and around the zoo

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And, if that wasn't bad enough how about this from Mr. Guckian (?)

THE REAL NRA - PLATFORM 1

D2849 : Design Engineering and Manufacturing Submitted by ISKANDER 7 hours ago Status: Under Consideration
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Rebuild and re instate our national and local railway network and set up the National Rail Authority to do this, as a matter of urgent need.

In our lifetimes both roads and cars are going to become an outrageously expensive rarity on this island. So we should be seeking to rebuild our old rail network. After all we have no oil reserves, we have no indigenous car manufacturing base, so why to we ape the cultures of America and the UK with urban sprawl, Shopping Malls which can only be reached by car ? Expensive destructive Motorway ateries with their sides clogged up with yet more usesless carpet shops and ,er, car dealers - as soon as the tarmac cools down!

We, the people of Ireland, are not ejits, but I think any old ejit can see a pattern here and who benefits from the adoration of the motor vechicle..

And it is indicative of the fat headedness of our leaders in their BMWs and Audis that we have a National Roads Authority but we don't have a National Rail Authority ? An Authority the same impetus and drive to lay down new rail track to people that desperately need it ?

SO ARISE!

AWAKEN SLEEPERS OF THE NORTH, THE WEST, THE EAST AND THE SOUTH !

Help me set up PLATFORM 1 or ARDAN 1. The peoples' movement/foundation and lobby group. Set up to re insate our railwaysis about to leave the station.

Wake up, smell the gorgeous coffee wafting from the dining car, as you take the Donegal direct to Dublin Broadstone. As you enter Monaghan town station on your way to Armagh. As you board the Cobh to Cork, Lee Luas Line.

Starting with a Constitutional ammendmend that every citizen has the right to easy accessible public transport.

Imagine, in 1910 we had 70% more railway coverage across the Island of Ireland than we do today . YES I SAID WE HAD 70% MORE RAILWAY COVERAGE 100 YEARS AGO THAN WE DO TODAY !

You could travel from Lough Swilly to Skibbereen in a day completely by rail in 1910 !

Instead of following the European models our genius ex freedom fighters in Fianna Fail and Fine Gael slavishly followed the example of the Brits and down graded our railways from 1925 onwards? They did more sabotage then than when they were in the hills.

In fact we overtook the Brit philosphy on Transport policy and by 1967 we had stripped back a whopping 70% of our rail network. Todd Andrews didn't get prison he got a pension.

It is time to right the lunacy of this transport policy.

For instance, there is a corridor of neglect running from Donegal/Derry through Tyrone Fermanangh Cavan Meath and on in to Dublin.

It would be like the British taking out the railway line from London through the Midlands and on to Liverpool.

We could build a spanking new railway line from Dublin to Cavan and on to Donegal through some of the most spectacular country side in the world. It all adds up to jobs jobs jobs.

Jobs in building railway stations, the rail road itself, jobs in manufacturing engines and coaches in Inchicore. Jobs in driving, conducting, inspection and catering on these trains.Jobs in maintenance and cleaning. Jobs to be proud of, on super modern efficient trains that run on time. Jobs in tourism as people come to Ireland simply to travel on this rail route.

It would mean the restoration of the Broadstone railway station in Phibsborough. One of ther most significant architectural wonders of the Victtorian age and it hotel, languishing as a bus shed?

The train could branch out into Monaghan and Armagh, Branch off into eastern Longford Leitrim and Sligo - opening up these areas as the railroad did on the U.S. Western Frontier.

We have seen the success of the Luas, the DART and the reaction of the people of the west to the re habilitationof the Western Corridor. They are but crumbs from the corporate government table compared with our expensive dedication to turning control of our Island over to cars and trucks.

On the local level we should be restoring our local rail lines now.
We should at least be converting them into walkways and cycle roads for the use of locals and visitors.
If the Victorians could do it in the 1860s (and they have done all the heavy work for us) we must do it today as a sensible feat of Public works for the good of all the people, for the environment and for our children.
PLATFORM 1 and ARDAN 1 would literally and initially be a platform for public lobbying and discourse for the railways we deserve. Setting up an office and web site using the best marketing and advertisng minds in the business create a successful railway promotional campaign that will be heard on high.


I'm sure there are many more such gems on www.yourcountryyourcall.com but I can't be bothered searching further....is this really what Ireland has come down to? This sort of crap initiative is a gross insult to those of us who have done our best to promote and develop projects down the years with officialdom putting every possible obstacle in the way. :mad::mad::mad:

crushproof

What's wrong with the Park idea, I'd see it as a pretty good tourist attraction, especially if it was steam. Option B sounds much better then the Chesterfield Avenue one though.

And erm...no comment on the "New NRA"

Run_to_da_hills

crushproof wrote: »

What's wrong with the Park idea, I'd see it as a pretty good tourist attraction, especially if it was steam. Option B sounds much better then the Chesterfield Avenue one though.

And erm...no comment on the "New NRA"

They should make it 5ft 3 instead of narrow gauge, at least we could see some of our heritage running on it without having to travel down to the ar*se end of the country, they could hand over the under utilized Phoenix park tunnel while they are at it. .

dermo88

My jaw practically the ground on seeing that. Its the kind of thing I wrote, and thought between the ages of 15 and 23, after which I emigrated. Then I found that railways are'nt the be all and end all. That cities can survive without one even when their populations reach 250,000, which came as a shock to me at the time. They are nice to have, but beyond that, nice does not equate to essential, unlike schools, hospitals, police.....

Thank God there was no Internet around in the early to mid 1990's, otherwise there would be plenty of material around to discredit me with. The notion that a railway can solve problems in regional development is false at worst, dangerous at best. It can provide ...possibly 5% of the solution at most in an Irish context.

The moment I saw "Arise...." immediately, I instinctively knew the route.

- Yep.....its the Dougalbahn. Completely unviable.....unlike the Tallaghtbahn, which the good citizens of Tallaght had to wait almost 30 years from Promise to promise to promise.....to finally opening as a low fat diet DART in 2004 in the form of Luas.

Why are these ideas never where they are required, in urban areas, and always in rural areas, where the car is a necessity, even with excellent rail links in place?

Victor

crushproof wrote: »

What's wrong with the Park idea, I'd see it as a pretty good tourist attraction, especially if it was steam.

Do we have an authentic model with a deer catcher on the front?

In any case, there is a train that goes around the zoo, thats enough.

JHMEG

Jeez they're brutal. And as parks go the Phoenix Park is kinda shíte, even by Irish standards.

Carawaystick

THere's a railway line in the Phoenix ( well under it)
and there's a railway station called Phoenix Park, which isn't near the phoenix park, let alone actually in it and serves a different railway lint to the line which actually goes through the phoenix park.

Regarding smelling the coffee on some train that takes a day to get from Donegal to Cork, have they smelt the gank that's served as coffee on the existing trains?

KC61

JHMEG wrote: »

And as parks go the Phoenix Park is kinda shíte, even by Irish standards.

Out of curiosity why do you say that?

I'd have to vehemently disagree with that statement - it's a wonderful facility barely outside of the city centre with lots of different things to do/see.

Run_to_da_hills

It would make a lot more sense to have one of these.

Judgement Day

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It would make a lot more sense to have one of these.

From Lough Swilly to Skibbereen?

FlameoftheWest

JHMEG wrote: »

Jeez they're brutal. And as parks go the Phoenix Park is kinda shíte, even by Irish standards.

Yes it is well rubbish. Apart from the deer it serves no purpose to the city residents anymore. It should be turned into something else just build around the old trees. As a city park it's a complete white elephant.

Lifelike

Why not reopen that old Farranfore to Cahersiveen railway on the Ring of Kerry? That would be Ireland's first scenic railway, and would be of much better use than digging tunnels under Phoenix Park.

Judgement Day

Lifelike wrote: »

Why not reopen that old Farranfore to Cahersiveen railway on the Ring of Kerry? That would be Ireland's first scenic railway, and would be of much better use than digging tunnels under Phoenix Park.

And why not send a London bus to the moon while you're at it?

JHMEG

KC61 wrote: »

Out of curiosity why do you say that?

I'd have to vehemently disagree with that statement - it's a wonderful facility barely outside of the city centre with lots of different things to do/see.

I grew up beside Lough Key Forest Park. Phoenix Park has virtually nothing by comparison.

BluntGuy

For instance, there is a corridor of neglect running from Donegal/Derry through Tyrone Fermanangh Cavan Meath and on in to Dublin.

It would be like the British taking out the railway line from London through the Midlands and on to Liverpool.

Yeah, it was here that the idea lost me.

corktina

long long ago we used to walk everywhere unless we could afford a horse to walk for us. If we were very rich we could hitch a couple of horses to a wagon and travel that way and that spawned the Stage Coach which plyed the rutted roads until Turnpikes were invented, another improvement. Then someone had the bright idea of building a road out of water and then these "canals" as they were called were superceded by Railways which did the job much better until the Motor Car was invented and roads improved dramatically to take them. No doubt something new will come along to replace the motor car but it sure as hell wont be Turnpikes Canals or Railways...

to the authors of documents like that in the OP, Give it up lads...look forward not back or we'll all be walking again (not in itself such a bad idea and could be the answer when the "Information Super Highway" removes the need for travel )

Cookie_Monster

Signed

Lyle Lanley

Carawaystick

JHMEG wrote: »

I grew up beside Lough Key Forest Park. Phoenix Park has virtually nothing by comparison.

Which city is Lough Key forest park in again?

JHMEG

Carawaystick wrote: »

Which city is Lough Key forest park in again?

Sorry, Pheonix Park gets a special pass to be shíte cos it's in a city.

FlameoftheWest

I did some googling on Brian Guckian. He seems to have been acting as some kind of railway restoration revolutionary for some time. Huge amount of his "projects" on the web.

He was also a member of something called Platform11 at one time and now he wants to set up Platform 1 or Ardan 1 - does this imply progression? Surely it should be Platform 12 if anything.

He's an interresting guy. Lots of ideas many of which are completely useless. Gosh, this is a great country all the same.

Sponge Bob

UuHuuum mm mmmm mmm

This appears to be a gentle satire by somebody or at least I _hope_ that is what is supposed to be. I don't mean the Phoenix Park jobbie.

It wisnae me and thats for sure :eek:.

That YCYC website is badly out of control overall, utterly if not dangerously counterproductive, and needs a kick in the hole ruthless pruning in case anybody serious has a look at it.

Rolling shortlisting is immediately required!!

Jip

JHMEG wrote: »

Jeez they're brutal. And as parks go the Phoenix Park is kinda shíte, even by Irish standards.

[Max from Max And Paddy]How dare you !!!!

The park is a fantastic amenity and can't be compared to somewhere in the wilds.


Flameofthewest, you're statement is breath taking in it's ignorance, so much so I'd say you're just trolling. Maybe you're a unhealthy git who has no use for it but it's used by thousands on a weekly basis, and it was packed with families Sunday gone, the first weekend of half decent weather.

JHMEG

Jip wrote: »

[Max from Max And Paddy]How dare you !!!!

The park is a fantastic amenity and can't be compared to somewhere in the wilds.

Why not?

Jip

Seriously ? You're trying to compare a place in the midlands with massive lakes with a city centre park ?

Cookie_Monster

JHMEG wrote: »

Why not?

cos Lough Key has no lions and tigers and bears, oh my!

:P

Run_to_da_hills

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

cos Lough Key has no lions and tigers and bears, oh my!

:P

But it has a replica of a Ballymun Flat.

FlameoftheWest

Jip wrote: »

Flameofthewest, you're statement is breath taking in it's ignorance, so much so I'd say you're just trolling. Maybe you're a unhealthy git who has no use for it but it's used by thousands on a weekly basis, and it was packed with families Sunday gone, the first weekend of half decent weather.

Eh no actually on all counts.

By any international standard the Phoenix Park is a piss poor urban park and is little more than an unbuilt site which no one seems to know how to use.

In Summer it is a huge car park for skangers and knacker drinking. There is no imagination put into it use, it seems apart and disconnected from the life of the city and its residents. Is hard to get to...in the sense that the gate beside the Heuston only gets you in the front door and there is a hell of a lot of park beyond that and a car is the only way people can realistically explore it, so that makes cycling dangerous and at the very least not relaxing at all as you are on guard for Laro from Finglas driving the kids (or more importantly his 24 cans of Bud) up there.

It's a crap urban park and hence why most Dubliners ignore it. A little railway of somekind, free bicycles and banning all cars would be a huge start to making it actually a proper city park. The people who go on about it being a wonderful amenity are nearly always Green Party types who never go there but wax lyrically about the Phoenix Park while on some plane trip to Bali.

The Phoenix Park is a "wonderful amenity" in the same way the Western Rail Corridor is "public transport". Superficial window dressing which means nothing really at the end of the day. So very, very Irish.

Jip

Maybe you should stay in doors in future, the world is a scary place by the sounds of it.
How can you think it's hard to get to ? It's easy to get to either by bus, rail, tour buses, luas, walking, private vehicles. Once you're in the main gate, in which you say is hard to explore, you can get the Phoenix Park shuttle bus or rent a bike.

And it's not at all dangerous to cycle in, it's easy to get around by bike and for the nervous people like yourself it has extensive cycle lanes, probably the amongst the best in the city.

Why would you want the park to be developed more ? That's part of the beauty of it, it's not developed at all, it's pretty much the same as it was a couple of hundred years ago.

But I don't expect you to listen to reason, you're already set in your mind that people who like it as it is are green party loving tweed wearing eco warriors. If you opened your eyes you'll see a huge amount of people who use it for a variety of different purposes, from model airplanes, cricket, polo of a variety of types, general sports, farmers markets, meets, picnics, nature walks, easter egg hunts, orienteering, shows, etc etc, need I go on ?

You're the one looking for all the barriers to prevent you from using it, all of which I have shown are untruths.

Cookie_Monster

Its a park but its also a lot of other things, don't forget. there's the zoo, the pres' house and so forth and its also a racetrack

there is also access from the no 10 bus and I'm sure more but can't be arsed checking

JHMEG

Jip wrote: »

Seriously ? You're trying to compare a place in the midlands with massive lakes with a city centre park ?

Even Stephen's Green is far nicer and has more to see than the PP. C'mon, the Garda HQ or the front gates on the Ambassador's rez don't really have the same appeal.

Cookie_Monster

FlameoftheWest wrote: »

By any international standard the Phoenix Park is a piss poor urban park and is little more than an unbuilt site which no one seems to know how to use.

why should it be anything else?
I don't see why we'd need to build x, y and z on it to "improve" it. I think its whole attractiveness is the wide open grassland areas tbh.

Jip

You're missing the point, if you want to go somewhere nice and landscaped, i.e. completely un-natural, stay in the Green or go to either the Peoples Gardens or cross the Liffey to the War Memorial Park.

So what makes a good park now is aesthetics and fakery ?

Cookie_Monster

JHMEG wrote: »

Even Stephen's Green is far nicer and has more to see than the PP..

"Nicer" in what way, it feels cramped and busy and compact. Now I like it but the PP is so much nicer, more open and feel less "stuffed full of junk"

JHMEG

Sorry, but if the PP was outside a city it'd be called a field. Some of use just expect more from our Parks.

Cookie_Monster

JHMEG wrote: »

Sorry, but if the PP was outside a city it'd be called a field. Some of use just expect more from our Parks.

to be totally fake and engineered?

JHMEG

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

to be totally fake and engineered?

Aside from the grass there's nothing natural about the PP. Do you think the Garda HQ was grown from a seed that arrived on the wind?

Jip

You're hilarious JHMEG, you obviously can't see the wood for the trees ! You obviously have no understanding of what constitutes a field.

Cookie_Monster

JHMEG wrote: »

Aside from the grass there's nothing natural about the PP. Do you think the Garda HQ was grown from a seed that arrived on the wind?

yes of course I do and the presidents house got was planted the day the state was founded as a 2 bed cottage. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


How about an answer that doesn't make you sound like a 6 year old. You know perfectly well what I meant by "fake and engineered" in regards to Stephens Green.

JHMEG

Ara lads relax. It's not my fault it's shíte, and that I have higher standards than ye

Jip

Bloody modernist.

FlameoftheWest

JHMEG wrote: »

Sorry, but if the PP was outside a city it'd be called a field. Some of use just expect more from our Parks.

That's the issue really. As for it being wild well I can only assume the people who call it wild have never been in the wild. It's an aristocratic version of "the wild".

JHMEG

FlameoftheWest wrote: »

That's the issue really. As for it being wild well I can only assume the people who call it wild have never been in the wild. It's an aristocratic version of "the wild".

Or "the wild" but with stabilisers still attached.

Jip

It is what it is, there you go again with your sweeping generalisations Flame. By their nature people who use the park regularly are well aware of what the 'real' wild is like.

There's not pleasing you two, it's either not sanitised enough for you, or else not 'proper' wild, you don't seem to know what you want.

gugleguy

...:cool: although there are those Irish natives who think anything outside their own usual pint will decry this as weird.
I have been derided as such on wikihow for some of my own ideas. Still I have persisted and some of my articles have a following. For instance see here:

http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Video-of-Your-Model-Railway-Onboard-a-Carriage-With-a-5Th-Gen-Ipod-Nano

I have been derided for other articles I posted like this, but it has paid off in the end and my articles are being read!

Best of luck dude

Cookie_Monster

FlameoftheWest wrote: »

That's the issue really. As for it being wild well I can only assume the people who call it wild have never been in the wild. It's an aristocratic version of "the wild".

JHMEG wrote: »

Or "the wild" but with stabilisers still attached.

and what would you lot know about "wild" anyway. There is no-where in ireland apart from maybe the remotest Island that is truely wild.

Everywhere is managed, no where has the correct original vegetation or animals left fully intact and there's very very few places you can go and be more than 3-4km from a road.

parsi

The Phoenix Park is similar to Berlin's Tiergarten - large green areas that are interspersed with the odd formal building. The Tiergarten isn't a formal park (with flowers and manicured lawns) but is very popular for walking, running and communal picnics.

Ernest

I must agree with other contributors who criticise the Phoenix Park. It must be one of the dreariest urban parks I have ever visited.

Stark

JHMEG wrote: »

I grew up beside Lough Key Forest Park. Phoenix Park has virtually nothing by comparison.

Lough Key's a boring old ****hole compared to the Amazon rainforest.

JHMEG

Is that the one in Talla, just off the Old Bawn?

Judgement Day

Well, they just keep on coming - thank God the competition's finally over. Have a look at this one. http://proposals.yourcountryyourcall.com/ct/ct_a_view_idea.bix?c=D284E307-BEF9-4396-AF6E-14009EAB8647&idea_id=04E11FCA-93E0-4D14-BC02-1C4C960DD5FD#comments

thomasj

Ernest wrote: »

I must agree with other contributors who criticise the Phoenix Park. It must be one of the dreariest urban parks I have ever visited.

I disagree. to me its one of the few places in this city that you are reminded of the property mess that will cost us for decades. touching the park, would have been the last straw for me!

I would walk through it come rain or shine with the music in the ears constantly.to me its a fairly serene place!