[US/IRL] 6x07 - "Dr. Linus" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

Sad Professor

- WARNING: THIS THREAD WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT YET SEEN "DR. LINUS" -

Episode Title: "Dr. Linus"
Airdate: March 9th 2010

Synopsis (from TV.Com):

Ben deals with the consequences of an uncovered lie.

Next New Episode: 6x08 - March 16th 2010

---

SPOILER WARNING:

From now on, this thread shall reveal details of the episode mentioned above. If you have not yet seen this episode, please do not move any further down the thread.

A REMINDER ABOUT USE OF SPOILERS:

No discussion of future episode spoilers. That includes anything the writers may have revealed in interviews, podcasts, etc. Even behind spoiler tags they don't belong in this thread. Promos for next week shouldn't be posted in here either.

And out of respect for those following the show on RTE, this episode should NOT be discussed outside of this thread until it has aired on RTE.

Sea Sharp

8

I liked it.

I know the flash-sideways was irrelevant as ever but I thought this week's was the best so far. I liked the plot to take down the principle .
So Richard was on the Black Rock. Is there anyone who didn't see that coming.

Good to see Paulo and what's her face being acknowledged.

But holy god will they ever make Richard say something informative. :mad:
Charles back on the island, I didn't see that coming.

Columc

8

GaNjaHaN wrote: »

I liked it.

I know the flash-sideways was irrelevant as ever

I thought it was quite good. We know Dharma was there and that the island was by linus dad saying he took the job and they did goto the island. even though the first flash-sideways showen us that the island was underwater.

I was hoping that desmon was going to be the new person arriving on the island, but I knew he wouldnt appear. But charles its going to be intresting i think.

EKRIUQ

5

First reflections I thought it was an Ok episode not really great and too much emphasis on the flashsideways. I don't really care about the parallel lives people are living but more concerned with the island life.

Richard had his chance to tell his story of the Red Rock but it would take too long.

And I knew Widmore would reappear at some time. Nothing too shocking in the episode.

Agamemnon

7

Good solid stuff, interesting to see possible redemption for Ben in both realities. Good to see Arzt and Alex again. Wonder what happened to Danielle in the alt reality? Since Mira Furlan didn't want to come back, it's unlikely we'll ever know.

Weird to see that Jack is now a man of faith, so much so that he gives Richard a reason to live again.

LOL at Miles digging up Nikki and Paulo's graves to get the diamonds.

Ilana looked hot in this episode. She seems to be getting a more prominent role but I can't see her surviving to the end.

mackthefinger

7

I liked it, but as others have said, no big reveals.
So Richard Alpert has been alive a long time. And Widmore's
arriving in a submarine? And that one of the six is going to replace Jacob.
I liked the scene between Jack and Richard, showing that Jack has made the leap of faith.

Are the flash sideways nothing more than just showing what each
character was like without the influence of the island? We saw last
week that Sayid still had the capacity for evildoing. This week Ben
did the right thing, even though he had been on the island as a child.
He was power crazy on the island, but not in the flash sideways.
Of course all the links were there, with the classroom reference to
Napolean and Elba and his loss of power. And he was giving his father
gas to help him, not kill him.

I've always liked Ben as a character. He thought he was more important
than he was, but he was never going to be a candidate. Even though
FakeLocke promised him guardianship of the island, I think Ben realised
he'd tired of being a pawn in the game. I still don't think I'd always trust
him to do the right thing though.

Good to see Miles getting those Diamonds, as he doesn't have much
of a role, other than to occasionally get in touch with the final thoughts
of dead people. I'd doubt if he or Frank Lapidis will see the final episode.

One of the things annoying me about this season is how people seem to
just 'bump' into each other. Oh look, there's Richard Alpert. They know
what the endgame is, where everyone should be, but it's only through
these lucky encounters that they can get everyone together.

The inference seems to be that Widmore will be on the side
of FakeLocke. But I wouldn't be surprised if Widmore's intentions
turned out to be good all along. Shame it wasn't Desmond in the sub.

homerun_homer

8

GaNjaHaN wrote: »

Charles back on the island, I didn't see that coming.

Eagle eyed viewers would have spotted his name in the opening credits. I wish they didn't do this cause it would have been a nice surprise for me, whereas I was waiting the whole episode for him to appear.

I'm glad the ad claiming to spoil how Ben was going to meet his demise was just to throw us off. I wish they didn't overcook the promos like that. Just like last week's one showing only snapshots of the episode cause anything else would reveal too much, turned out to be BS.

Great episode though. Michael Emerson was brilliant once again. It's funny how someone you love to hate has become someone you want to see redeemed regardless of what he's done in the past.

Sad Professor

7

Good episode. Not a lot happening plot-wise, but there was a lot of important character developments.

Jack is now firmly at the head of Team-Jacob. The dynamite scene was a pretty bad-ass demonstration of his new found faith. And best of all, it happened just as Richard was losing his own faith. Jack has now basically taken on Locke’s mantle, but him staring down the barrel of the gun (or dynamite rather) was pure Jack. It’ll be very interesting to see what he does next. Leader-Jack is back!

One thing this episode made clear (especially in the sideways) is how fundamentally weak Ben really is. He has good intentions, but his desire for power is dangerous. Him choosing to go back with Ilana was a nice moment. But still, I wonder if he can be trusted to stay on Team-Jacob. Was UnLocke telling him the truth about leaving him in charge of the island? Or was it just another “you can have anything in the world”-type lie? Nevertheless, perhaps Ilana’s forgiveness is all Ben needs to stay loyal.

Confirmation at last that Richard was on the Black Rock. Him not being able to kill himself is reminiscent of Michael’s difficulties doing the same in season 4. Does this mean Locke couldn’t kill himself either?

It’s interesting how both Ben and Richard have fallen from their former positions of power and knowledge and are now probably going to be taking orders from Jack.

The sideways was very interesting in terms of the different choices made. Ben's attempted usurpation of the principal is a mirror of what occurred with himself and Widmore in the original timeline. On the island, Ben expresses his regret that he chose the himself over Alex. But in the sideways he choses Alex over his own power.

MIB is headed to Hydra island - the only thing that’s there is the Ajira plane. Is that how he plans to leave the island? I’m still not sure I buy all this. I reckon he just wants everyone else to leave.

homerun_homer

8

mackthefinger wrote: »

I'd doubt if he or Frank Lapidis will see the final episode.

Who knows but they are obviously there for a reason so I won't be surprised if they hold out til the finale and maybe become red shirts in the end after doing what their characters were planned to be useful for.

mackthefinger wrote: »

One of the things annoying me about this season is how people seem to
just 'bump' into each other.

What used to take days travel to get to places is looking a lot easier now. It's annoying but given 6 episodes have taken place in 1 day it looks like we'll have to assume the Losties are walking faster:)

mackthefinger wrote: »

The inference seems to be that Widmore will be on the side
of FakeLocke. But I wouldn't be surprised if Widmore's intentions
turned out to be good all along. Shame it wasn't Desmond in the sub.

We always believed Widmore was evil because of Ben. Ben saw him as a rival for being a leader figure on the island so it would seem right for him to be on Jacob's side given he was an Other. But there is plenty of occurances to debate he is on the wrong side as always presumed too.

homerun_homer

8

Sad Professor wrote: »

Ben choosing to go back with Ilana was a nice moment. But still, I wonder if he can be trusted to stay on Team-Jacob.

I dunno, I don't think the writers would give us an episode showing us a character wearing his heart on his sleeve and then play it with a twist later on. It confirms how much Alex meant to him and that he really regrets letting his power trip get the better of him.
Sideways Ben hadn't the power trip until the moment where he was blackmailing the principle so it was easier for him to do what Ben would really do - to do good by Alex. However island Ben has had a power trip for years and he was blinded by it but he ultimately wishes he did different.

Sad Professor

7

homerun_homer wrote: »

It's annoying but given 6 episodes have taken place in 1 day it looks like we'll have to assume the Losties are walking faster:)

Didn't Miles say last week that a day had passed since Jin left? Lostpedia's timeline has all that happening on the same day though. But they are very stubborn over there and won't indicate a new day until night is shown.

Danakin

Sorry guys, long time lurker, first time poster!

I thought this was quite a good episode. It was old-school Lost to a large extent with character development playing at least an equal role to plot and action which is something that has been lacking in recent episodes. I appreciate that it's the final season and there are a helluva lot of loose ends to tie up and revelations to reveal but if, as the writers say, the show is in essence about these people's lives then their development has to remain central.

Michael Emerson was, as he has been throughout the show, terrific. He has manged to turn from the most obvious and prominent "bad guy" in the show to a character that I find myself rooting for whenever he appears. I'd heard something about this being his final episode( dunno if I dreamed this?) and I was delighted that he survived. The most touching moments this season have been Ben's speech over Locke's grave and then Alana's "I'll have you" moment.

I also thought Matthew Fox was good in the episode. I know that one swallow doesn't make a summer but at times I think Jack has been written poorly and that Fox's acting has been unfairly blamed. The scene with Richard was excellent and the inspirational effect jack can have shone through which is the real core of his character. I really got a "The Boss is Back" sense to that scene.

gustavo

8

Danakin wrote: »

Sorry guys, long time lurker, first time poster!

I thought this was quite a good episode. It was old-school Lost to a large extent with character development playing at least an equal role to plot and action which is something that has been lacking in recent episodes. I appreciate that it's the final season and there are a helluva lot of loose ends to tie up and revelations to reveal but if, as the writers say, the show is in essence about these people's lives then their development has to remain central.

Michael Emerson was, as he has been throughout the show, terrific. He has manged to turn from the most obvious and prominent "bad guy" in the show to a character that I find myself rooting for whenever he appears. I'd heard something about this being his final episode( dunno if I dreamed this?) and I was delighted that he survived. The most touching moments this season have been Ben's speech over Locke's grave and then Alana's "I'll have you" moment.

I also thought Matthew Fox was good in the episode. I know that one swallow doesn't make a summer but at times I think Jack has been written poorly and that Fox's acting has been unfairly blamed. The scene with Richard was excellent and the inspirational effect jack can have shone through which is the real core of his character. I really got a "The Boss is Back" sense to that scene.

Agreed with all that

Loved the episode

Can't wait for the Widmore - Ben confrontation which seemed like it would be so important around Season 4

The big Jin - Sun reunion will be emotional

Was glad that Ben chose Alex over power in the sideways timeline

With maybe 1 or 2 exceptions this season has been great

beanyb

homerun_homer wrote: »

Eagle eyed viewers would have spotted his name in the opening credits. I wish they didn't do this cause it would have been a nice surprise for me, whereas I was waiting the whole episode for him to appear.

I really wish I hadnt noticed that. Damn credits. I somehow managed to forget about it, mainly because I was expecting him to show up in Ben's alt world, but as soon as I saw that sub I remembered and knew exactly what was coming. I'd actually love to see Widmore appear in a flash sideways. I wanna know what his deal is without the island.

I really enjoyed this episode overall. I briefly wanted Ben to kil Ilana because she wrecks my head, but was happy that he didnt in the end. I was unnecessarily happy for Ben when Ilana said she'd have him. I loved the sappy reunion on the beach too. It's been a long time since we had one of those scenes, and I thought it was a nice call back to the old days.

Penn

7

Danakin wrote: »

Sorry guys, long time lurker, first time poster!

I thought this was quite a good episode. It was old-school Lost to a large extent with character development playing at least an equal role to plot and action which is something that has been lacking in recent episodes. I appreciate that it's the final season and there are a helluva lot of loose ends to tie up and revelations to reveal but if, as the writers say, the show is in essence about these people's lives then their development has to remain central.

Michael Emerson was, as he has been throughout the show, terrific. He has manged to turn from the most obvious and prominent "bad guy" in the show to a character that I find myself rooting for whenever he appears. I'd heard something about this being his final episode( dunno if I dreamed this?) and I was delighted that he survived. The most touching moments this season have been Ben's speech over Locke's grave and then Alana's "I'll have you" moment.

I also thought Matthew Fox was good in the episode. I know that one swallow doesn't make a summer but at times I think Jack has been written poorly and that Fox's acting has been unfairly blamed. The scene with Richard was excellent and the inspirational effect jack can have shone through which is the real core of his character. I really got a "The Boss is Back" sense to that scene.

Nice first post. Welcome.

I agree about Ben. I think the promo's may have been right, the Ben we knew is dead. He's a different man now

Also, do we know who the six candidates left are? When MIB took Sawyer to the cave, there was Locke, Sayid, Sawyer, Jack, Hurley and Kwon (Jin or Sun), so that makes 6. But Locke is no longer a candidate. So do we know who the sixth is? It couldn't be Ben if Ilana was going to kill him. I'm thinking

Miles as he went back in time with the other candidates (presuming the Kwon is Jin), and he was born on the island, and can listen to dead people, so he's obviously special in some way. And Ilana knew about his gift

DeepBlue

7

Good episode. Very enjoyable.

A couple of questions:

• Richard said Jacob touched him and gave him a gift. Did Jacob touch all the candidates?
• Also - what's the difference between a genus and a species? :P

P.S. I was totally expecting Ben to gas his father again.

James Forde

9

Really starting to enjoy the flash-sideways, not sure if that's to do with Michael Emerson, but I liked the way it mirrored some of Ben's on island persona regards power.

Excellent episode, nice reveal at the end, even though I knew Widmore was going to pop up at some stage.

Very reminiscent of earlier seasons, people being re-united, back at the old beach.

And again fantastic score from Michael Giacchino

Edit,
the Jack and Richard dynamite scene was totally awesome, badass Jack is back

tok9

8

Great episode.... Emerson was absolutely excellent.

The Flash sideways have been pretty interesting (bar Kates). Not really sure what is going to happen with them.

I was half expecting smokey to come out and kill Ilana when Ben hesitated and i was very worried that Ben was going to die too. Delighted neither happened.

The music has been excellent too. Obviously liked the reunion but also the bits with Jack and Hurley was very good too.

Are people converting back to liking Jack now? Class scene with Richard. For some reason i was kinda worried it was going to go off after jack said "Do you want to try another one?"

Its been a while since I've been worried about my favourite characters dying. Would have been gutted if both had died in the same episode.

I'm going to assume that Charles will be on team Jacob. Can't wait to see what he says when he finds out Ben killed Locke and Jacob!

Also that theory about Smokey only being in certain places and having to return back to where it started is probably gone considering the noises happened and Locke appeared to both Sayid and Ben pretty much instantly.

gustavo

8

DeepBlue wrote: »

Good episode. Very enjoyable.

A couple of questions:

• Richard said Jacob touched him and gave him a gift. Did Jacob touch all the candidates?

.

I think he did,And I think the gift is that they can't die unless the island wants them to

SilentAssassin

One of the things I've always loved about Lost is the nagging little questions from people's flashbacks. One that always intrigued me was whatever happened to Ben's friend Annie from when he was a kid in the Dharma Initiative? With only nine episodes until the finale, I'd say it's safe to assume this was the last Ben-centric episode we'll see (a lot of other characters to squeeze in). In that case it looks like we won't get an answer to this question. It's not up there with the big mysteries of the island, but I'd always hoped we'd get an answer to that

anotherlostie

7

DeepBlue wrote: »

Good episode. Very enjoyable.

A couple of questions:

• Richard said Jacob touched him and gave him a gift. Did Jacob touch all the candidates?
• Also - what's the difference between a genus and a species? :P

P.S. I was totally expecting Ben to gas his father again.

In the S5 finale, it showed Jacob meeting up with, and touching, all the candidates, including both Sun and Jin. The only one in that episode who didn't meet him in flashback was Juliet, and we know what her fate was.

I enjoyed Ben's story, and wondered for a while why they didn't use Alan Dale as the school principal. Like others I saw he was going to be in the ep, and was expecting him to pop up throughout the flashback. Is there a bit of a theme developing in the flashbacks whereby the 'Team Jacob' characters do good in their alt timeline, while the 'Team Flocke' guys don't (Kate and Sayid as murderers).

Good to see some answers - Richard did come on the Black Rock, Jacob made it so he couldn't die, and Hurley admitted he had spoken to Jacob in front of the others (something the show never used to be able to do for weeks on end).

Penn

7

I'm hoping they have a better part in the flash-sideways for Widmore than a principal having an affair with a school nurse. But like others, I wish his name hadn't been shown.

Handsome Bob

6

I'm really starting to dig the Flash-sideways, it's great to see the characters in much better positions emotionally speaking. What can I say, I like to see people happy.

Creature

8

Despite no revelations or events of any magnitude happening I liked that episode. Michael Emmerson really is the best thing about Lost. I very much enjoyed the whole flash-sideways bit and the dynamite scene between Jack and Richard was excellent. As was the confrontation between Ilana and Ben at the end. Grade-A television right there.

I'm wonder will we see a definite change in attitude and actions of Ben from now on? It'll be interesting to see him as a 'good' guy from now on.

Agamemnon

7

homerun_homer wrote: »

Eagle eyed viewers would have spotted his name in the opening credits. I wish they didn't do this cause it would have been a nice surprise for me, whereas I was waiting the whole episode for him to appear.

I notice that Henry Ian Cusick (Desmond) is in all the credits so far this season, even though he's only appeared once. They did something similar with Michael the season he came back. We know we'll see him eventually but we don't know when.

gustavo wrote: »

The big Jin - Sun reunion will be emotional

I bet there won't be any dialogue - just a slo-mo embrace with the cameras circling around them and music rising to a crescendo. It's a Lost cliché at this stage.

mackthefinger wrote: »

Good to see Miles getting those Diamonds, as he doesn't have much of a role, other than to occasionally get in touch with the final thoughts of dead people. I'd doubt if he or Frank Lapidis will see the final episode.

I think Frank will survive somehow. He's usually the comic relief and I think he won't be called on to give his life for anything. Maybe he'll find a plane somewhere and fly the survivors off the island in the final episode (those that want to leave anyway).

homerun_homer

8

Sad Professor wrote: »

Didn't Miles say last week that a day had passed since Jin left? Lostpedia's timeline has all that happening on the same day though. But they are very stubborn over there and won't indicate a new day until night is shown.

It has to be more than a day in all honesty for what's happened.
For example, Sawyer gets captured and brought to the cave, Sayid is dead but 2 hours later is revived. Sawyer leaves, walks to new otherton, Kate catches up and finds him, have a few heart to hearts and she leaves, he drinks himself into a drunken stupour, is visited by MIB, walks to cliffs and brought into 'Jacob's' cave.
In the meantime MIB catches up with Claire, Sayid and gives the temple time to make the decision to stay or go before sundown, then unleashes hell. It's a bit too much to happen in a day. I know Lost isn't grounded in a lot of reality but these things need to be plausible.

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

I agree about Ben. I think the promo's may have been right, the Ben we knew is dead. He's a different man now

Hadn't thought of it that way. Very good.

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

Also, do we know who the six candidates left are? When MIB took Sawyer to the cave, there was Locke, Sayid, Sawyer, Jack, Hurley and Kwon (Jin or Sun), so that makes 6. But Locke is no longer a candidate. So do we know who the sixth is? It couldn't be Ben if Ilana was going to kill him. I'm thinking

Miles as he went back in time with the other candidates (presuming the Kwon is Jin), and he was born on the island, and can listen to dead people, so he's obviously special in some way. And Ilana knew about his gift

Austen was written on the wheel in the Lighthouse, her name was filmed in the cave but cut. she's number 51 - crossed out in the cave but not Lighthouse. It's not known whether she is the 6th. The theory that the candidates being the only ones travelling through time together would make sense but that means Miles would have to have been a candidate, and if he was he's be the 7th.
We need answers:)

Regarding Widmore - just looking back, Ilana's people tried to influence Miles to join them (hence how Ilana knew of his powers) and said he was going to join the wrong side. That would be Widmore's freighter crew.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

8

that episode made me care about lost again

Also Starring LeVar Burton

9

Great episode after a very disappointing one last week...
I had seen Alan Dale's name pop up at the beginning, but forgot about it completely until we saw the submarine and knew immediately who was inside...

If anyone has been listening to Jorge Garcia's podcasts, where he discusses the script with his girlfriend Beth, you may be interested to know Michael Emerson will be guest starring in this weeks podcast, which is gonna be online later today...
The podcasts are great fun and have been getting better each week, and don't contain spoilers for future episodes.
They're all here anyway: http://geronimojacksbeard.blogspot.com/ and you can download them from iTunes, which is handy...

Creature

8

What did Locke mean when he said to Ben about him staying and being in charge of the island when he leaves? Was it just a lie or perhaps, as well as a replacement for Jacob, there'll also need to be a replacement for smokey?

homerun_homer

8

Creature wrote: »

What did Locke mean when he said to Ben about him staying and being in charge of the island when he leaves? Was it just a lie or perhaps, as well as a replacement for Jacob, there'll also need to be a replacement for smokey?

If we knew that we'd probably know the answer to the whole mythology, hence why we are still asking the question.

Dempsey

7

Good episode, I try to ignore the opening credits so the ending had the desired effect on me!

I find it AMAZING that the french woman in the alt timeline moves to America and just happens to relocate to the same suburb in the same city as Ben Linus. Not that time travel and people that dont die isnt far fetched but some things need to be anchored into the probable and realistic for this show to have the desired effect on the audience.

Emerson is, once again, outstanding as Ben Linus.

The big question with the alt timeline is what happened to the DHARMA intitiative and what changed Roger to care about Ben

Dymo

6

I liked this episode, don't get me wrong, but I am starting to get frustrated. I am in the "we will get the answers and we should just enjoy the ride" camp, but this week left me a little cold. It was great episode, but what actually happened?

We learned about Richard. We saw some good character development with Ben. But plotwise...nothing actually happened. When there are so many big questions to be answers, having an episode where only one or two questions are answered is pretty frustrating, but I guess I may aswell stop thinking that this season was going to tie up all the ends and just realise that all will not be answered for the die hard fans.

Also this bumping into each other on the island is getting a bit ridiculous now, all they have to do is walk 20 meters and they meet some one else.

When did Hurley ever meet Richard, I've searched and can't find any evidence of them ever meeting each other on the island, I'm sure we can speculate they talk about other characters on the island but for Hurley to instantly recognise Richard, me thinks the writers are using poetic justice. (Hurley was not there when Sawyer talked to Richard on the bench)

Penn

7

I'm wondering about Richard and Hurley too

Sad Professor

7

Hurley doesn't recognise Richard. When Richard comes out of the jungle, Hurley stares at him like he doesn't know him. Then he asks Jack "do you trust that guy?"

There's a big gap between this scene and the latter conversation. Jack presumedly filled Hurley in about Richard on the way to the Black Rock. It's also possible Hurley had already heard about Alpert from Sawyer and the others back in 77.

Faith

8

Is it just me, or did the conversation that Ben and his dad have about being on the island years ago not indicate that the flashsideways are all the alternative timeline that would have taken place if Sayid had never shot young Ben?

If he'd never shot him, the others would never have saved him. By saving him, they put into motion everything that resulted in Oceanic 815 crashing. If Ben had never been shot, he would never have grown up to kill Jacob. Jacob would never have needed a replacement. He obviously knew he was going to die if he was sourcing replacements for decades. The Losties would never have crashed, or come back, or time traveled, and so on.

Psychedelic

9

I loved this episode. The dynamite scene with Jack and Richard was class, and marks a major turning point in Jack's character. Good reveal at the end with the sub and Widmore. Brilliant scenes with Ben, especially the one with Ilana, and I even enjoyed the flash sideways. Good reunion scene too with lovely music.

I thought Richard was going to explain how the Black Rock got there but alas we will have to wait for his episode to (hopefully) find out.

Sad Professor

7

Faith wrote: »

Is it just me, or did the conversation that Ben and his dad have about being on the island years ago not indicate that the flashsideways are all the alternative timeline that would have taken place if Sayid had never shot young Ben?

If he'd never shot him, the others would never have saved him. By saving him, they put into motion everything that resulted in Oceanic 815 crashing. If Ben had never been shot, he would never have grown up to kill Jacob. Jacob would never have needed a replacement. He obviously knew he was going to die if he was sourcing replacements for decades. The Losties would never have crashed, or come back, or time traveled, and so on.

Yeah, that's a good take on it. So maybe there was an instant domino effect from Juliet hitting the bomb. Or perhaps as others have speculated Juliet hitting the bomb wasn't the cause of the sideways at all. Instead, her setting of the bomb actually saved the island.

At the start of the season I dismissed the suggestion that this was one of a million different possible timelines, but perhaps it is in a way. MIB said it always ends the same. Jacob said, yeah, but it only ends once and everything in between is progress.

How about this: There's a repeating time-loop which ends the same way every time - the end of the world. Jacob is trying to stop it, so each time he chooses 6 different candidates, their purpose is to try and stop it. But each time they fail. Every time the world ends, the loop resets and everything starts again. Jacob picks another 6 candidates. On and on it goes.

The sideways-timeline is another loop in which Jacob picked a different set of candidates. The island is at the bottom of the ocean because they (not the Losties) failed.

Basically it's the Valenzetti Equation.

DonkeyStyle \o/

6

I think Sun is a candidate to replace Michael as the master of worn-out catchphrases. "I haf to fiiind my hus-band!".
We get it, shut uuuuup :mad:

Psychedelic

9

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote: »

I think Sun is a candidate to replace Michael as the master of worn-out catchphrases. "I haf to fiiind my hus-band!".
We get it, shut uuuuup :mad:

:pac:

Otacon

Is the fact that Lupidus was the original pilot an important fact? Seems strange to just throw that out there.

blue_steel

8

Gave it 9 out of 10. Highest rating of the season. Some good forward momentum to this episode. Everyone seems to be getting to where they are supposed to be. Loved seeing the Black Rock again, the nostalgic reunion on the beach and Widmore's appearance in the sub. But the highlight had to be Ben's redemption. The great thing about this show is that it was impossible to know whether he would choose good or evil. Edge of the seat scene.

Kiith

8

Emerson was fantastic yet again. Thank god they decided to keep Ben as a character, cause he is consistantly brilliant. Loved Jack in this episode as well. I've been a long time Jack supporter, and its nice to see him believing in himself again.

Also, loved the look he gave Ben at the end of the episode. Can't wait for them to have a chat, considering how different both of them were the last time they were together.

homerun_homer

8

Dempsey wrote: »

The big question with the alt timeline is what happened to the DHARMA intitiative and what changed Roger to care about Ben

Roger got sick and no doubt had to quit drink, re-evaluated his life and relationship with his son and bonds with him.
Lost is a show which at this stage you just have to fill in the gaps yourself and come up with your own conclusion about how things might have happened.

Faith wrote: »

Is it just me, or did the conversation that Ben and his dad have about being on the island years ago not indicate that the flashsideways are all the alternative timeline that would have taken place if Sayid had never shot young Ben?

If he'd never shot him, the others would never have saved him. By saving him, they put into motion everything that resulted in Oceanic 815 crashing. If Ben had never been shot, he would never have grown up to kill Jacob. Jacob would never have needed a replacement. He obviously knew he was going to die if he was sourcing replacements for decades. The Losties would never have crashed, or come back, or time traveled, and so on.

I don't think the others saving Ben is what gets the chain of events in motion to lead to the crash of Oceanic 815. Ben rejoined Dharma after being saved if 'Whatever happened happened" and there is nothing to say the bomb directly causes the island to sink in the 'alt timeline'. So there may be plenty of time for him to rejoin his dad as normal and end up leaving the island before it sinks, just like Ethan. The Others said he'd forget what happened so he may not have this in mind (Sayid shooting him in cold blood) in the alt version of events.

tok9

8

Actually i have one question.. How long has it been since Ajira 316 crashed on the island?

Just curious about the timelines between that and Widmore leaving the hospital after Desmond had been shot.

Anyone have a rough idea?

cooker3

tok9 wrote: »

Actually i have one question.. How long has it been since Ajira 316 crashed on the island?

Just curious about the timelines between that and Widmore leaving the hospital after Desmond had been shot.

Anyone have a rough idea?

It can't be that long. At a guess somewhere between a week and a fortnight.

Daysha

7

Michael Emerson is the best actor ever. That is all.

Zombrex

3

Unless the writers are being very clever I think they are getting a bit muddled in the alternate time line.

If the Losties never crash they never time travel, and Faraday never defuses the atomic bomb in the 50s

Initially I thought that was what was going to cause the island to sink.

But then the Dharma institute have build Otherville, you see it in the first episode and Ben's dad makes reference to living on the island.

So maybe what the writers are going for is that if the Losties never crash they never time travel and never shoot Ben, he is never taken to the temple by Richard and never comes out "different" or what ever Richard said.

I don't know, to be honest I'm some what losing faith in the writers at this point. The more I watch this season the more I think Lost was originally a two possibly three season idea stretched out over six seasons by sub plots that were not really thought through as much as the main plot.

We are nearly half way through and really have learnt very little. I don't think for example that knowing that the smoke monster is the man in black is classified as an answer, since we don't know what the man in black is or how he turns into a smoke monster (or anything about the smoke monster's properties such as the whispering) and the man in black was only introduced a few episodes ago. It is hardly an answer

Thinks like the little we learn about Richard are not answers either, just confirmations. We know Richard doesn't age, we have known that for ages. We know Richard doesn't age because of Jacob, we have known that for ages too. We had a pretty good idea Richard was on the Black Rock, we have suspected that for a good while and had pretty much confirmation of it in episode 1 of this season when the MIB mentions the chains to Richard.

So again, what are we actually learning? Very little. I can't help feeling that is because there is actually very little behind all this, we aren't having answer after answer because the writers don't have answer after answer.

I hope I'm wrong, time will tell.

tok9

8

cooker3 wrote: »

It can't be that long. At a guess somewhere between a week and a fortnight.

Ya was thinking something similar... it's going to be interesting finding out how he found the island so quickly and what side he is on.

Sad Professor

7

tok9 wrote: »

Actually i have one question.. How long has it been since Ajira 316 crashed on the island?

Just curious about the timelines between that and Widmore leaving the hospital after Desmond had been shot.

Anyone have a rough idea?

According to Lostpedia it is day 6 since Ajira landed on the island. As mentioned earlier though, they are off by at least 1 day, possibly more. So it's more like day 7/8.

According to that timeline, Widmore meeting Hawking outside the hospital happened the same day Ajira took off.

the_monkey

7

Sad Professor wrote: »

Hurley doesn't recognise Richard. When Richard comes out of the jungle, Hurley stares at him like he doesn't know him. Then he asks Jack "do you trust that guy?"

There's a big gap between this scene and the latter conversation. Jack presumedly filled Hurley in about Richard on the way to the Black Rock. It's also possible Hurley had already heard about Alpert from Sawyer and the others back in 77.

wishfull thinkin....

Sad Professor

7

the_monkey wrote: »

wishfull thinkin....

What is?