Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

richardmoyes

Ho ho ho. Stitched yourself up loike a Kipper there Monument. Der Stressenvolf vas korrect. Heil!

A small step towards the real goal of diverting every topic to the logic that College Green is the true Valhalla of Dublinplatz.
Die Götter demand that an underground banhof be built there sofort!

So what that it's already decided to scrap the O'Connell Bridge station while yiz were looking away?

Facts smacts! pffff, who needs dem.

lucernarian

richardmoyes wrote: »

Ho ho ho. Stitched yourself up loike a Kipper there Monument. Der Stressenvolf vas korrect. Heil!

A small step towards the real goal of diverting every topic to the logic that College Green is the true Valhalla of Dublinplatz.
Die Götter demand that an underground banhof be built there sofort!

So what that it's already decided to scrap the O'Connell Bridge station while yiz were looking away?

Facts smacts! pffff, who needs dem?

It's worth remembering that the currently-active railway order is granted for precisely such a station.

That Aecom report was such a damaging exercise...

newcar2016

If only we had started construction on the original Metro North and interconnector when it was first shovel ready.

It would probably be done by now. Might have been down a few billion but probably could have stimulated the economy more to the same value or more.

cgcsb

Indeed and you'd realistically be able to get from most northern suburbs to the City Centre in under a half hour via a quick spin on feeder bus. Hundreds of thousands of people would be saving over an hour of their time every day.

BonnieSituation

cgcsb wrote: »

Indeed and you'd realistically be able to get from most northern suburbs to the City Centre in under a half hour via a quick spin on feeder bus. Hundreds of thousands of people would be saving over an hour of their time every day.

But sure you can't measure time in monetary value.

:rolleyes:

Reuben1210

cgcsb wrote: »

Indeed and you'd realistically be able to get from most northern suburbs to the City Centre in under a half hour via a quick spin on feeder bus. Hundreds of thousands of people would be saving over an hour of their time every day.

Yes, and it's not a big city, so this infrastructure would instantly make vast swathes of it very livable and shoot Dublin up livability rankings!

Peregrine

LeinsterDub wrote: »

They've had to stop working pending an archaeological dig, they've found the treasure trove of ancient documents early indications shows they are entitled "Transport 21" , "Dublin 2020" and a "Platform for change" among others

A few of the greatest works of fiction ever written on this island.

monument

strassenwo!f wrote: »

Monument, I will hopefully address your other points in the next few days, but the one below has to be answered right away.



This is an image produced by the RPA to show their plans for O'Connell Bridge.

As you can see, it shows the proposed station stretching all the way from Fleet Street on the southside to Abbey Street on the northside. 300 metres. No bs claim.

So, basically, you're guessing 300 metres? The drawings don't support you.

richardmoyes

monument wrote: »

So, basically, you're guessing 300 metres? The drawings don't support you.

It's more than 300m from Abbey St to Fleet St.

When you're in a hole....................stop digging.

Unless it's College Green. You can dig there according to Die Strassenvolf.

MJohnston

richardmoyes wrote: »

It's more than 300m from Abbey St to Fleet St.

If we're being pedantic, its not actually, as its 280m walking between the two, and that's not straight line

richardmoyes

I was wondering who'd be the first person to spot that

richardmoyes

Still a behemoth of a banhof mind.

Grandeeod

richardmoyes wrote: »

Still a behemoth of a banhof mind.

...for a project that actually may not be built.

While it pains me to say it, Strassenwolf's position regarding MN and DU is generally an acceptable position when one considers that both projects have gone back to the drawing board. We can quote all we like, but the reality is that Strassenwolf is perfectly entitled to express opinions on routes, stations. plaza's, College Green or whatever, because we are back at square one anyway.

I don't agree with his opinions, but considering the State's total and absolute failure (as usual) to even come close to any form of consistency, I say let him at it.

richardmoyes

No underground station will be built at CG because PP will be impossible - this is the conclusion of the MN team. The main problem is Trinity who have vowed to fight it tooth and nail. There's also the issue of shutting the corridor down for perhaps 2 years - so this will not be revisited. Forests of trees have been used up arguing this but a simple call to the IR engineers office will find somebody to confirm this. All Die Strassenvolf's calculations are defunct on this reality.
The new MN is certain to scrap the O'Connell Bridge Behmoth and Parnell Sq Stn for 1 station close to the GPO.

Grandeeod

richardmoyes wrote: »

The new MN is certain to scrap the O'Connell Bridge Behmoth and Parnell Sq Stn for 1 station close to the GPO.

The "new" MN is certain to be yet another load of crap talk that won't be built.

As for College Green? Who knows? You can talk all day about PP and Trinity, but considering the utter incompetence of the state to deliver anything with an actual hole dug, I'm increasingly reluctant to accept any continued redicule of an opinion by a poster, when we are literally in a free for all situation again.

I don't agree with Strassenwolf, but I'm astounded that so many are clinging to a project that is dead in the water, despite any "new" version, while lambasting someone who dares suggest a different view. If MN or DU were under construction or very close to it, I'd be the first in line to tell Strassenwolf to **** right off. But they aren't.

I've been around the block with all this "underground" stuff. DU was originally on the northside. The central hub was originally in Temple Bar and not Stephens Green. Things change a lot when it takes you 40 plus years to reach a point where you are still talking about it. Absolutely anything can happen in the next reincarnation.

But it won't be built anyway.

richardmoyes

Things do get built. The Port Tunnel, the M50 etc. The nature of democracies and the election cycle make the go ahead for big infrastructural projects which often have no votes in them but eat up a lot of funds in one locality, complicated. This happens everywhere not only Ireland - if I remember correctly a metro line in Poland started in the 1920s only got finished in recent years. DU and MN will get built not because they'd look nice but because a time will come when not building becomes more damaging than building. The cynic outlook bordering on conspiracy theory is a sort of self flagellation and not a realistic appraisal of the situation.

LeinsterDub

richardmoyes wrote: »

DU and MN will get built not because they'd look nice but because a time will come when not building becomes more damaging than building.

Aka 2006?

Grandeeod

Deedsie wrote: »

You consistently say this will never ever be built... why do you continue posting the same point on a discussion forum on how it is going to be built? It's as off topic as some of Strassenwolf's bizarre comparisons with random German cities public transport systems.

Ireland have an embarrassingly poor track record on public transport but we did go through the most extreme financial crash in the history of the state recently. I think your pessimism is a bit excessive. The port tunnel, Jack Lynch tunnel and the Shannon tunnel are all projects where a hole was dug...

My concern is not whether or not it will be built, its whether or not they will make a balls of it. Platform length, station locations, link up with other public transport infrastructure etc

Your examples quoted are an attempt to discredit my opinion, but they are all road based. Give me examples of major railway based projects. You won't. because you can't, because there aren't any.

richardmoyes

I rest my case

Grandeeod

richardmoyes wrote: »

The cynic has the psychology of the coward.
He tries to have it every way.
If nothing happens...............he can trumpet: "I TOLD you so!"

It it gets built he can play big and weasel: "Well done, I never thought you'd manage it"

That's not how I play and never was. My opinions are based on precedent. You are entitled to think these things will be built. But I am entitled to think that they won't.

And less of the "Coward" stuff. If you want to get personal take it to PM or face to face. I really don't mind.

wakka12

Grandeeod wrote: »

Your 3 examples disdredit nothing, because I was referring to major rail infrastructure in a thread about rail infrastructure.

I'm not trolling in any way, because 40 plus years of history and in particular the last 10 years of more intense history fully backs up my opinion.

But to say that something will never be built is a bit ridiculous don't you think? Like never ever ever? Not even before the sun burns out and humans go extinct? Of course it'll happen eventually. Maybe a more realistic superlative would be never in our lifetime, but even that I doubt.

richardmoyes

Grandeeod wrote: »

That's not how I play and never was. My opinions are based on precedent. You are entitled to think these things will be built. But I am entitled to think that they won't.

And less of the "Coward" stuff. If you want to get personal take it to PM or face to face. I really don't mind.

:-)

newcar2016

Deedsie wrote: »

Yes this is a discussion and I disagree with your opinion that Metro North won't be built. You said Ireland have "never delivered anything with an actual hole dug"

My 3 examples perfectly discredit your comment quoted.

Metro North and DART Underground will of course be eventually built. Borderline trolling to keep banging on that it will never be built.

What about Metro West? Which should by the way be extended to link with Metro South at Dundrum!

cgcsb

richardmoyes wrote: »

Things do get built. The Port Tunnel, the M50 etc. The nature of democracies and the election cycle make the go ahead for big infrastructural projects which often have no votes in them but eat up a lot of funds in one locality, complicated. This happens everywhere not only Ireland - if I remember correctly a metro line in Poland started in the 1920s only got finished in recent years. DU and MN will get built not because they'd look nice but because a time will come when not building becomes more damaging than building. The cynic outlook bordering on conspiracy theory is a sort of self flagellation and not a realistic appraisal of the situation.

In fairness to Warsaw Metro, it was planned in 1920, the depression struck and ended those plans. Construction began in 1938 after a recovery and then Warsaw was all but levelled by intense fighting between German and Soviet tanks. Then Warsaw was forced by the Soviet Union into a brutal socialist regime without a pot to piss in for decades. Somehow they managed to start building in 1983 even with no resources, frequent cave ins, antiquated equipment and little/no outside expertise allowed. They finished in 1995.

In Dublin we planned a straight forward 3 line system in 1973. Since then we've had 2 recessions, a couple of strikes and unprecedented economic growth in the western world and complete social and industrial modernisation. And nothing but stability.

cgcsb

I think before metro west happens there should be a new public transport only bridge, with a reservation for a future surface metro/luas connecting The N4/R113 junction with the diswellstown road. Start running 3 or 4 new bus routes connecting various parts of Tallaght sprawl to various parts of Blanch sprawl via the R113, and R136. Widen the road to include bus lanes where needed. Make sure each route is every 15 minutes, provide a real alternative to driving on the M50

Bray Head

cgcsb wrote: »

I think before metro west happens there should be a new public transport only bridge, with a reservation for a future surface metro/luas connecting The N4/R113 junction with the diswellstown road. Start running 3 or 4 new bus routes connecting various parts of Tallaght sprawl to various parts of Blanch sprawl via the R113, and R136. Widen the road to include bus lanes where needed. Make sure each route is every 15 minutes, provide a real alternative to driving on the M50

This is a super idea but is inconsistent with where DB's depots are located, specifically, none west of Heuston station.

And as we all know the location of depots tends to influence route provision to a very large extent.

Carawaystick

Bray Head wrote: »

This is a super idea but is inconsistent with where DB's depots are located, specifically, none west of Heuston station.

And as we all know the location of depots tends to influence route provision to a very large extent.

I suppose you could have routes from Harristown , so you could have services getting people almost but not quite to the airport, like other Harristown services...

Bray Head

Apart from general management inertia, is there any reason why DB has never set up a depot on the west side of the city?

If you draw a line west of Heuston you would have at least half of the increase in population in the city over the last half century. Likewise employment.

This could have been funded at any point by the sale of its city centre depots which are a pretty bizarre use of scarce land.

BonnieSituation

Bray Head wrote: »

Apart from general management inertia, is there any reason why DB has never set up a depot on the west side of the city?

If you draw a line west of Heuston you would have at least half of the increase in population in the city over the last half century. Likewise employment.

This could have been funded at any point by the sale of its city centre depots which are a pretty bizarre use of scarce land.

The land of their old Abbey St depot still remains unused.

Remember the hotel and transport hub plan?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055149488


As for Conyngham Road I think they should keep it. Because you just know it's proximity to Heuston means it will be need for something to do with DU when it comes on stream.

A new green field site between Tallaght and Lucan wouldn't be too hard to acquire I would wager.

But moving on... Metro North eh?

MJohnston

Bray Head wrote: »

This could have been funded at any point by the sale of its city centre depots which are a pretty bizarre use of scarce land.

Ringsend in particular must be worth a huge amount of money now.