Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

Aard

cgcsb wrote: »

My hope is that by the time the next election rolls around in 2015, Dublin has a directly elected mayor and construction of Metro and DARTu has begun. If that's the case I would say FG will win most Dublin constituencies quite soundly, I hope they think that too and see the political value of these projects.

Plebiscite for mayor will only be held next year. First mayoral elections won't take place until 2019.

handlemaster

Grandeeod wrote: »

You are completely ignoring Irish political and social life and peddling a worthy but utterly irrelevant vision in an Irish context. I agree with your sentiments, but feel you are a bit naive.

Not ignoring it , I'm just saying the belief that somehow if you go against development in Dublin your going to 'win' is just rubbish.

cgcsb

murphaph wrote: »

It's a potential vote loser outside the greater Dublin area. People there still often resent Dublin getting anything.

I doubt it. There are still bitter boggers who bemoan everything but I doubt it'd be a vote changer. They'd probably moan the day it opens like the day the luas opened and then forget about it.

cgcsb

Red Crow wrote: »

Metro North is a load of nonsense. It would be a colossal waste of money. No government is going to touch such a huge waste of public expenditure.

It's pie in the sky stuff that wasn't feasible during the Celtic Tiger and isn't feasible now.

on what do you base this belief?

Victor

cgcsb wrote: »

bitter boggers

You might be a bit more temperate in your language.

Moderator

Victor

cabrasnake wrote: »

Now you know why he's called Bandy Coot.

On-topic, constructive posts only please.

Moderator

mydiscworld

Alternative Dublin metro plan on the agenda for ‘half the cost’

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/alternative-dublin-metro-plan-on-the-agenda-for-half-the-cost-1.1594648

Dublin City councillors have been briefed on an alternative Dublin metro
proposal which would incorporate and extend Metro North and Dart underground.

Transport planner Cormac Rabbitt of NUI Galway said the metro
was first proposed to the government in 2000 and could now be built in five
simultaneous contracts in just two years. He said it would cost “about half the cost of Metro North”.

cabrasnake

Just paddled up the Liffey on a canoe this morning.

handlemaster

mydiscworld wrote: »

Alternative Dublin metro plan on the agenda for ‘half the cost’

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/alternative-dublin-metro-plan-on-the-agenda-for-half-the-cost-1.1594648

There seems to be more meat on the bone for this plan than people on here were giving credit for.

cabrasnake

Mad cow meat.

crc

mydiscworld wrote: »

Alternative Dublin metro plan on the agenda for ‘half the cost’

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/alternative-dublin-metro-plan-on-the-agenda-for-half-the-cost-1.1594648

I don't suppose anyone has a link to the proposal? All I can find in Google is that IT article.

Grandeeod

crc wrote: »

I don't suppose anyone has a link to the proposal? All I can find in Google is that IT article.

http://www.metrodublin.ie/index.htm

Grandeeod

handlemaster wrote: »

There seems to be more meat on the bone for this plan than people on here were giving credit for.

I would tend to agree with you. Time will tell, but there is historic evidence that Ireland likes to reinvent the wheel in relation to large infrastructural projects. Since the 1970s, there has been on the table, off the table, redesigns, reappraisals etc etc. Of course much of this is down to political interference. How this particular proposal fits into that dynamic will be interesting to watch.

aindriu80

Dublin could probably get by without a Metro but having one would really benefit the capital and Ireland. From what I can gather in the papers they either intend to partly use existing rail and run a new Metro service on a least some of it. Without looking at too many maps surely its a bit of Metro light ?

A new metro service has to be separate to any existing rail infrastructure except for connecting up the dots. It's a city metro they need not improvements in heavy rail. I always thought that a metro service should be completely separate from other forms of rail, underground and two twin bore tunnels for future growth. I guess they simply can't get the money for it.


Any metro is better than no metro and I hope they build it.

xper

handlemaster wrote: »

There seems to be more meat on the bone for this plan than people on here were giving credit for.

Not sure how you conclude that. There isn't really anything more in this regurgitated, unquestioned press release than is in the previous media items and his website.

strassenwo!f

Could someone just talk me through the whole 'St. Stephen's Green' thing again. The metro, the interconnector, the LUAS, and now this new proposal. They all seem to go there. What's the deal?

Grandeeod

strassenwo!f wrote: »

Could someone just talk me through the whole 'St. Stephen's Green' thing again. The metro, the interconnector, the LUAS, and now this new proposal. They all seem to go there. What's the deal?

Easy. Southsider thinking. Its a traditional thing. The Green is were its at apparently. The northside of Dublin was Haughey country, but his political heart and aspirations were southside. It started then. Add to that the masses of country folk that landed in the civil service and were educated to live on the southside. I would have thought your question had an obvious answer.

monument

strassenwo!f wrote: »

Could someone just talk me through the whole 'St. Stephen's Green' thing again. The metro, the interconnector, the LUAS, and now this new proposal. They all seem to go there. What's the deal?

You mean besides being being between a large office district and a major retail district / overlapping a food and drink / nightlight district? Plus the Dail, loads of government departments, museums, venues, a major park etc?

Well, besides all of that there's the space for nice and wide tram stops, space for buses, and space to dig a large underground station more cheaply. The latter is likely more important than the former, at least for MN and DU.

Grandeeod wrote: »

Easy. Southsider thinking. Its a traditional thing. The Green is were its at apparently. The northside of Dublin was Haughey country, but his political heart and aspirations were southside. It started then. Add to that the masses of country folk that landed in the civil service and were educated to live on the southside. I would have thought your question had an obvious answer.

Oh, give over.

Grandeeod

monument wrote: »

Oh, give over.

Get your history books out. And despite being a mod, please don't just shoot down my post, with the term "give over". If I did that I'd get a warning. Have you anything else in your arsenal to actually argue my point or are you basing your rather bare comment on moderator bias.

Red Crow

Grandeeod wrote: »

I would have to strongly disagree with that. Leave the Celtic Tiger out of things and lets do something worthwhile in a normal environment, not driven by egos. However I completely understand your viewpoint and perhaps why you feel that way. There has been a complete failure to present Dublin with a radical transport plan based on improving the quality of lives as opposed to flinging money at stuff and parading it around the place as a "vote for us" load of crap.

In a world of ideals the Metro North is a good idea. However, it's not in anyway feasible. I know for a fact that the Metro North is a dead duck and won't be built in our lifetime.

I was initially a supporter of the MN but it's simply not going to happen. There are many factors working against the MN and key one for the next 50 years is going to be financial factors.

monument

Grandeeod wrote: »

Get your history books out. And despite being a mod, please don't just shoot down my post, with the term "give over". If I did that I'd get a warning. Have you anything else in your arsenal to actually argue my point or are you basing your rather bare comment on moderator bias.

See the first half of my last post.

Banjoxed

So, apart from the shopping, the restaurants and the Central Business District, what did the St Stephens Green area ever do for the City Centre

Amirani

Grandeeod wrote: »

Easy. Southsider thinking. Its a traditional thing. The Green is were its at apparently. The northside of Dublin was Haughey country, but his political heart and aspirations were southside. It started then. Add to that the masses of country folk that landed in the civil service and were educated to live on the southside. I would have thought your question had an obvious answer.

What percentage of stops on Metro North are going to be on the Southside? What percentage of stops on LUAS BXD are going to be on the Southside?

Simple fact of the matter is - St Stephen's Green is probably the most suitable location for a large City Centre terminus, particularly as it's going to need both underground and overground connectivity. Instead of dreaming up some sort of conspiracy, perhaps you could suggest an alternative location for such a terminus?

robd

A picture speaks a thousand words. From http://www.metrodublin.ie.

To me it looks like an extended Dart Underground, which incorporates suburban part of Metro North by linking through Phoenix Park Tunnel. The element whereby Northern Dart is diverted through Dart underground tunnel is removed.

Shedite27

Have to agree with monument here, the "city centre" is the top of Grafton Street for me (as a Corkman). I'd happily live northside once the bus/metro connections land me near there rather than Eden Quay!

All the main offices, government departments, shopping, nightlife are around there. Northside is for museums/statues/croker/train stations/airport - nothing "real".

Best part about metro north would be that it allows you to get to the "real centre" without passing O'Connell Street. Hopefully it will change sometime, but IMO, the city centre is creeping south.

Shedite27

robd wrote: »

Am I correct in thinking that (BXD excluded) the only "non-existing" bits of this are Heuston - Docklands and Glasnevin - Malahide? Obviously lots more needs to be upgraded, but all the rest of the real estate is already available?

Is there a station in Glasnevin? Even a 1800's one that could be reopened?

robd

Shedite27 wrote: »

Am I correct in thinking that (BXD excluded) the only "non-existing" bits of this are Heuston - Docklands and Glasnevin - Malahide? Obviously lots more needs to be upgraded, but all the rest of the real estate is already available?

Is there a station in Glasnevin? Even a 1800's one that could be reopened?

Yes that is a correct assumption. Hence wildly lower price.

I think Prospect Road is nearer to Glasnevin (at least old Glasnevin) than Glasnevin Station.

Looks to be at between Cabra and Dublin Industrial Estate at piece of land owned by Irish Rail, where Phoenix Park Tunnel line and Maynooth line cross over. New Luas line is using old reserved Broadstone alignment to reach here already.

murphaph

Stephen's Green makes sense on logistical grounds. It's a park, in a city, so it's one of the few places you can sink a starting pit for a TBM without massive CPO. There's no conspiracy theory for heaven's sake.

FreudianSlippers

robd wrote: »

A picture speaks a thousand words. From http://www.metrodublin.ie.

To me it looks like an extended Dart Underground, which incorporates suburban part of Metro North by linking through Phoenix Park Tunnel. The element whereby Northern Dart is diverted through Dart underground tunnel is removed.

]
At a relatively modest cost why not build this now and if the MN goes ahead in the future; no harm done really.

murphaph

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

]
At a relatively modest cost why not build this now and if the MN goes ahead in the future; no harm done really.

The key piece in the puzzle is the Interconnector. Just building that (and electrifying Maynooth and buying new rolling stock) would transform transport in Dublin, but the Interconnector doesn't look like getting built any time soon.