Sinn Féin

DERICKOO

OK I'm listening
Speaking at the close of the Sinn Fein Ard Fheis in Dublin, Mr Adams also said that his party - in power - would introduce a 1% solidarity tax on assets worth more than a €1 million.

oh oh this equates to a hell of a lot of votes but then again what politician leader :rolleyes: ever keeps his word.
please name me one.:(

Iwasfrozen

DERICKOO wrote: »

OK I'm listening
Speaking at the close of the Sinn Fein Ard Fheis in Dublin, Mr Adams also said that his party - in power - would introduce a 1% solidarity tax on assets worth more than a €1 million.

oh oh this equates to a hell of a lot of votes but then again what politician leader :rolleyes: ever keeps his word.
please name me one.:(

How about politicians who promise nothing like our good old Mr. Cowen.

Sand

Sounds like populist tripe to be honest. Whats next? Tarring and feathering bankers? Listening to that sort of crap is where Bertie and Co. got their voting base from.

stepbar

DERICKOO wrote: »

OK I'm listening
Speaking at the close of the Sinn Fein Ard Fheis in Dublin, Mr Adams also said that his party - in power - would introduce a 1% solidarity tax on assets worth more than a €1 million.

oh oh this equates to a hell of a lot of votes but then again what politician leader :rolleyes: ever keeps his word.
please name me one.:(

A 1% solidarity tax on assets worth more than a million?

What an idiotic idea :rolleyes

So let me see..... lets give an example. Lets say a retired person on a pension of c30k p.a bought their house back in day for 40k. Lets say this house is in Foxrock for argument sake. Again for argument sake it worth 2 million. Now, lets say the same person inherited land and and has other assets (including cash) to the value of 1million. So Mr Adams proposes to tax same individual 10k (or even worse 30k) for the privilage of having assets that same person has worked all their life for?

And furthermore what about the individual who has 1million in assets but a significant amount of liabilities? What does Mr Adams propose doing about them?

Idiot.........

Socialistic ideas will not get us out of this recession, capitalist will.

And one could argue that capitalist ideas got us into this mess, but I'll be dammed if I subscribe to the ideas of Sinn Fein. If they get into government (which highly unlikely) I'll leave this country. I'll also be dammed if Sinn Fein attempt to bring everyone down to the sort of economic level their electorate would be used of (and by that I mean the economic profile of the majority of their supporters). Social Welfare in this country is probably too generous. Transferring wealth down will not solve anything but further foster a generation of people who think they are entitled to a living.

FoxT

Well, no surprises today. In an ideal world we would have had
- Expulsion of Ferris for giving a cop-killer a spin home the day he was released
and
- some policy proposals to prevent troubled children from dying in HSE care
and
- some HSE knuckle-rapping with proposed legislation so they are not (or will not , in the future) get away with sitting on the report of a fatality for 8 years or so
and
- some plausible NAMA alternatives
and
- Another policy/legislation proposal so that IT's get their 'degree inflation' problem sorted out before they are recognised as 'Bob Jones universities'

These pilgrims are worse than FF & FG on the economy, and no mention of any of the above that I have heard. Have I missed something?

MikeC101

DERICKOO wrote: »

OK I'm listening
Speaking at the close of the Sinn Fein Ard Fheis in Dublin, Mr Adams also said that his party - in power - would introduce a 1% solidarity tax on assets worth more than a €1 million.

oh oh this equates to a hell of a lot of votes but then again what politician leader :rolleyes: ever keeps his word.
please name me one.:(

While it sounds good on a vague, populist level - it gives the impression of "let's just take 1% off those millionaires, sure they'll never miss it" - in practice it's not that easy at all.

As other posters have pointed out, what about someone who has €1 million in assets but €1.2 million in liabilities?

Or will it be only on net assets? Are companies going to be hit with it too? Someone who doesn't have much cash, but has had their family home / land for decades, that the government now decides is worth €1 million, do they have to come up with €10,000 for the privilege of keeping their home?

Edit: This has come up before, and I think that there were certain exclusions - farmland was one, if I recall correctly, but I can't remember how specific the proposal was.

Eliot Rosewater

FoxT wrote: »

These pilgrims are worse than FF & FG on the economy

I don't think I'm mistaken in saying you sound a little surprised. You shouldn't be

Sinn Feins economic policy is similar to most socialistic economic policy. It is not the product of a long and hard study into what will be the best method to stimulate the economy, or produce net employment. Its not even a product of economics itself!

Such policies are based on the "knee-jerk" tendancies of socialistic parties. They don't care what their policies actually do. All they want is that their fanciful lefty ideals of subjective "fairness" and subjective "equality" are satisfied. Its also based a good bit on populism. Taxing the rich harder sounds great! Make them pay! For ambiguous reasons I'm entitled to some of their earnings. Someone somewhere owes me something! &c.

Another thread here was concerned with the 1% wealth tax proposed by Sinn Fein. What immediately happens when you introduce that is that capital is moved out of Ireland. Wealthy entrepreneurs who, amongst other things, create employment are given another reason to flee. So employment goes down.

But Sinn Fein don't want to hear about that. All that matters is that on the face of it it looks pleasing and "fair" and "equal".

amacachi

Yeah, sounds like a great idea, let's get them all to transfer their assets abroad and funnel everything away, so we lose loads in Capital Gains and other taxes.

stepbar

Lets face it, it's the sort of idea that panders to the sort of folk that vote for Sinn Fein in the first place. It has no place in a proper economic environment. But then again I would expect nothing more from Sinn Fein when it comes to economic matters. They are, after all, the party who in the last election proposed that we raise Corporation Tax significantly (and this was when times were good). As I've said their economic policies have no place in this state. Funny enough I don't see a similar policy having been implemented in the North where they're actually in Government.

danman

But it not real government.

They have no powers over the economy, and with hairbrained ideas like this, it a good job they have no economic powers.

Breezer

"Yes, I think you should be penalised. You have too much money, Bill."*

*Yes, I'm aware it wasn't SF that said this, but it's the same mad principle.

ei.sdraob

no surprises there, this sort of tripe is to be expected from SF
i am waiting for our resident "shinners" to come along and explain to us what a great idea this is, and how dare we criticize the top party comrade
this is the same party that proposed raising corporation tax, as we recently learned from the Intel boss that's the only positive left for business in Ireland

danman wrote: »

But it not real government.
They have no powers over the economy, and with hairbrained ideas like this, it a good job they have no economic powers.

there's alot of angry and disillusioned people out there, especially the young (and rightly so!) i am afraid these are the types who would vote for SF slogans, without thinking thru what it would actually lead to

FlutterinBantam

stepbar wrote: »

A 1% solidarity tax on assets worth more than a million?

What an idiotic idea :rolleyes

So let me see..... lets give an example. Lets say a retired person on a pension of c30k p.a bought their house back in day for 40k. Lets say this house is in Foxrock for argument sake. Again for argument sake it worth 2 million. Now, lets say the same person inherited land and and has other assets (including cash) to the value of 1million. So Mr Adams proposes to tax same individual 10k (or even worse 30k) for the privilage of having assets that same person has worked all their life for?

And furthermore what about the individual who has 1million in assets but a significant amount of liabilities? What does Mr Adams propose doing about them?

Idiot.........

Socialistic ideas will not get us out of this recession, capitalist will.

And one could argue that capitalist ideas got us into this mess, but I'll be dammed if I subscribe to the ideas of Sinn Fein. If they get into government (which highly unlikely) I'll leave this country. I'll also be dammed if Sinn Fein attempt to bring everyone down to the sort of economic level their electorate would be used of (and by that I mean the economic profile of the majority of their supporters). Social Welfare in this country is probably too generous. Transferring wealth down will not solve anything but further foster a generation of people who think they are entitled to a living.

Excellent post.

I wouldn't let the Shinners within a mile of anything to do with the economy.

That's the harebrained schemes they will dream up, and probably spend the 'income' increasing the payouts to wasters and scroungers who wouldn't do an honest days work to save their lives, while working away on the black economy, paying no taxes, contributing nothing, but availing of everything.

God help us if those gimps get a foothold.

ninty9er

The people this sort of crap appeals to are unlikely to vote in any case. It appeals to those with no aspirations in life who plan on living in subsidised housing and having no assets to their name for life, because even the worst off of the Working Class (I' mean workers) have aspirations for themselves and their kids and regardless of their position in society now, it's easy to get anywhere in this society with hard work and the people who work 40 hours a week cleaning toilets to keep food on the table know that their kids could be sitting on their arse signing accounts and sitting on €2m homes in 20 years.

It's a plan that appeals to only the long term unemployed and idiots. If it were to include only income generating assets it might be workable.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

eoinbn

"He said Sinn Fein's proposal to introduce a solidarity tax on assets worth more than €1m, excluding farm land, would yield €3bn."- rte

I would love to know how they came up with €3bn. France's wealth tax brings in something similar(€2-3bn) with bands of(lets ignore the flight of capital for now):
Up to 732,000 0
From 732,001 - 1,180,000 0.55
From 1,180,001 - 2,339,000 0.75
From 2,339,001 - 3,661,000 1
From 3,661,001 - 7,017,000 1.3
From 7,017,001 - 15,255,000 1.65
From 15,255,000 1.8

Now we are expected that a 1% wealth tax in a country that has ~10% of the wealth of France will bring in the same amount?!

I would also love to see Intel's reaction when Gerry tells them that they have to pay an extra €30-40m tax year because they had the cheek to build a €4bn manufacturing plant and hire 4,000 people!

Exile 1798

eoinbn wrote: »

I would also love to see Intel's reaction when Gerry tells them that they have to pay an extra €30-40m tax year because they had the cheek to build a €4bn manufacturing plant and hire 4,000 people!

We don't have the guess what their reaction would be, they won't be happy if they have to pay more tax just like you or me.

But do you suppose they'll up and leave their €4bn plant and lay off the 4000 people they hired to save paying an €30-40m in tax? Wouldn't seem like smart business to me.

ei.sdraob

Exile 1798 wrote: »

We don't have the guess what their reaction would be, they won't be happy if they have to pay more tax just like you or me.

But do you suppose they'll up and leave their €4bn plant and lay off the 4000 people they hired to save paying an €30-40m in tax? Wouldn't seem like smart business to me.

4bn of that plant is probably machinery which can be moved

so can the top engineers be attracted to move elsewhere

do you really think that 4bn is actually tied up in the building itself? if so it must be constructed from solid platinum

PomBear

Are people here actually saying FF and FG have better economic policies?

MavisDavis

I have zero time for the Shinners and their somewhat ludicrous policies.
A 1% tax on assets would completely discourage foreign direct investment if it was applied to industry, as would their ridiculous notion of raising corporation tax (a possible increase in which, ironically, they then said was a reason to vote no to Lisbon). It looks to me that they have not differed much from the basic socialist ideas of their founder, Arthur Griffith. But then, the economy was never a main focus of the party, was it? It's like they have a vague, basic idea of an economic policy, which they alter according to what they perceive to be the will of the people. It's a hideous, pandering attempt to gain support. I have no faith in their ability to lead this country at all. As another poster said, or at least implied: if they get into government, I'm outta here.

Iwasfrozen

PomBear wrote: »

Are people here actually saying FF and FG have better economic policies?

Yes.

PomBear

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes.

Explain..

pljudge321

ei.sdraob wrote: »

4bn of that plant is probably machinery which can be moved

so can the top engineers be attracted to move elsewhere

do you really think that 4bn is actually tied up in the building itself? if so it must be constructed from solid platinum

A significant proportion of the total plant cost would be the building itself. The entire building has to be essentially airtight and maintained at a level of cleanliness orders of magnitude more sterile than an operating theatre. This necessitates incredibly complex air filtering, ventilation systems, water purification etc. Even with that I'm not even sure if it would be feasible to move the machinery without contaminating everything.

Iwasfrozen

PomBear wrote: »

Explain..

Sinn Fein are far left wing nationalists. Stalin was a far left wing nationalist. Explanation enough ?

On secound toughts that was a little bit horrid, here's a section of Sinn Feins economic policies taken from wikipedia:

Wikipedia wrote:

Economic policy

• An 'All-Ireland-Health-Service' akin to the National Health Service in the United Kingdom,
• Free breast screening (to check for breast cancer) of all women over forty - presumably in both Northern Ireland and the Republic,
• Aiding the case for equal pay,
• An end to 'mass-deportation' of asylum seekers across the whole of Ireland,
• Oppose all water charges,
• An 'all-Ireland' economy with a common currency and one tax policy,
• Greater investment for those who are disabled,

Ok first off the NHS works as it does, without a central planning authority because it can achieve Economies of Scale. Ireland, being smaller cannot achieve these Economies of Scale and thus it will cost us more tax per capita for an identical system.

Do you know how much it will cost for free breast screening for all women over forty ? A fortune that's how much. Which will mean taxes being raised even more.

God knows what "aiding the case for equal pay" is but it sounds very socialist.

They want to retain assuylum seekers staying in this country at the tax payers expense. These people it should be noted contribute nothing to society.

Despite the fact our water system is in a third world state they don't want to bring in charges to up-grade it. Thus more people will have to suffer from water shortages and undiscovered lead pipes.
One can only pressume that the Shinners are in favour of increasing takes to up-grade these pipes instead.

They want to bring the North into the Republic despite the little fact that the majority of the norths population want nothing to do with us. And who can blame them ?

Greater investment for those who are disabled means higher taxes for those who aren't. Higher takes means TNCs are less likely to deploy here which means our economy will sink into **** which means we will be paying less taxes which means disabled people will end up worse off then they where before the tax increase.

All of this plus the fact that I don't want the ugly Irish language pushed down my throat means I will never ever vote for Sinn Fein.

ei.sdraob

pljudge321 wrote: »

A significant proportion of the total plant cost would be the building itself. The entire building has to be essentially airtight and maintained at a level of cleanliness orders of magnitude more sterile than an operating theatre. This necessitates incredibly complex air filtering, ventilation systems, water purification etc. Even with that I'm not even sure if it would be feasible to move the machinery without contaminating everything.

manufacturing microchips involves constantly being on the edge of technology

do you honestly think likes of Intel would bother upgrading their fabs or for that matter creating more of them if they get shafted by the brain-dead bunch that SF are

Ireland needs companies like Intel alot more than these companies need us,

be careful what you wish for (and vote for)

yes things can get much much worse

pljudge321

ei.sdraob wrote: »

manufacturing microchips involves constantly being on the edge of technology

do you honestly think likes of Intel would bother upgrading their fabs or for that matter creating more of them if they get shafted by the brain-dead bunch that SF are

Ireland needs companies like Intel alot more than these companies need us,

be careful what you wish for (and vote for)

yes things can get much much worse

I know all that I was just pointing out that in any new fab the building itself is extremely costly. If Sinn Fein ever get into power I'll be leaving.

the_syco

Exile 1798 wrote: »

We don't have the guess what their reaction would be, they won't be happy if they have to pay more tax just like you or me.

But do you suppose they'll up and leave their €4bn plant and lay off the 4000 people they hired to save paying an €30-40m in tax? Wouldn't seem like smart business to me.

Currently, we're against Israel to get a new contract. We get it, we get lots of jobs. Israel's government would be giving some tax breaks, etc, to get that contract, as they know they'll get money from it, in the long run, from the tax that they'll earn from the people.

Open your f**king eyes. Leave their "€4bn plant"? The one they're running with a skeleton staff for the past while? That plant? The plant that makes chips 10 or 15 years old, which are having a reduced demand?

That plant? If we don't get the contract, the plant will last another good few years on a skeleton staff, but unfortunately the future doesn't look bright beyond that.

That €30-€40m in tax to Intel would be a knee-capping experience for the workers still there.

And would be a point blank shot to the head, in terms of Intel getting that new contract. It ain't the SVP. It's there to make money. They've already let a few thousand go, so if you introduce a new tax, cuts will be made.

=-=

I wonder what the US governments thoughts would be about letting such technology be manufactured in a state that is run by Sinn Féin, who have dodgy links to an even dodgier illegal militia, who drive cop killers home.

DERICKOO

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

How about politicians who promise nothing like our good old Mr. Cowen.

you need a life really why not buy him a pint.

DERICKOO

Sand wrote: »

Sounds like populist tripe to be honest. Whats next? Tarring and feathering bankers? Listening to that sort of crap is where Bertie and Co. got their voting base from.

you are sitting on a cushion. OK for how long

DERICKOO

Sand wrote: »

Sounds like populist tripe to be honest. Whats next? Tarring and feathering bankers? Listening to that sort of crap is where Bertie and Co. got their voting base from.

Broadly speaking and I hold no love of sine Fein or jerry Adams
quote jerry Adams but did not categorically rule out going into power with Fianna Fáil after the next General Election.
Our incumbaned economy must be looked at on a wider perspective and not withstanding recent developments in our banking fiasco here. Under normal circumstances I would as they say go with the flow.
Now I’m asking questions of those who state they are the people who are qualified to run our country. To me they have both failed miserably and covered up their own and others mistakes in handling our fragile economy.
Celtic tiger my ass it was we know now squandered.
I have read recently an article where it was stated pmpa default in the 80s was still being paid for by our beloved taxpayers with a so called levy yes levy this levy will I fear now hit a new high with both Anglo and not open to scrutiny aib yes I know aib. Example.
I now ask you to look carefully at.
Accounting rules have required IL&P to disclose extensive details of its dealings with Anglo following Anglo’s nationalisation.here http://www.thepost.ie/themarket/ilp-reveals-state-bond-deals-worth-2bn-47767.html
The companies are now deemed to be so-called ‘‘related parties’’ as a result of Anglo becoming state-owned and IL&P becoming reliant on state support in the form of the government’s guarantee covering certain liabilities.

Burning the bondholders: the options
07 March 2010 By Cliff Taylor the post

DERICKOO

danman wrote: »

But it not real government.

They have no powers over the economy, and with hairbrained ideas like this, it a good job they have no economic powers.

yes in principle I agree with you but I am left with an undeniable feeling that we can not trust those who govern now.:D