M11/N30 - Gorey to Enniscorthy [open to traffic]

spacetweek

Seem to be unable to find it now, but there's an article today that confirmed that the plan has been changed and that the bypass will indeed extend beyond Oilgate now.

marno21

spacetweek wrote: »

Seem to be unable to find it now, but there's an article today that confirmed that the plan has been changed and that the bypass will indeed extend beyond Oilgate now.

If so this will surely push the last N11 scheme well down the pecking order

jd

It's in the local papers, quoting Brendan Howlin. I'll try get a transcript.

jd

From the Enniscorthy Guardian (should be available online later this week)

New M11 bypass to extend beyond Oylegate


THE €400m Gorey to Enniscorthy bypass will now extend beyond Oylegate village, after an agreement was reached with Transport Infrastructure Ireland.

Minister Brendan Howlin made the announcement at the sod turning for the New Ross bypass on Monday.
The €400m Gorey to Enniscorthy dual carraigeway scheme will involve the construction of 39km of new national roads.
Minister Howlin said even though the contract for the works was signed and the design works had the bypass finishing on the Enniscorthy side of Oylegate, an agreement was reached whereby the bypass will now end on the Wexford side.

L1011

marno21 wrote: »

If so this will surely push the last N11 scheme well down the pecking order

It possibly moves it in to the size of scheme the EU can be 'encouraged' to pay 95% for under TEN-T, though.

loyatemu

jd wrote: »

From the Enniscorthy Guardian (should be available online later this week)

sensible decision - the last section to Rosslare would have been long-fingered either way, might as well get Oilgate bypassed while the opportunity is there.

Cantona's Collars

Engineers taking levels at Solsborogh today where the new bridge crosses the Slaney linking the M11 and the new N30 link road from Scarawalsh.

BoatMad

loyatemu wrote: »

sensible decision - the last section to Rosslare would have been long-fingered either way, might as well get Oilgate bypassed while the opportunity is there.

Yes but given the county Capital is effectively down the road, surely it makes sense to run the M11, to the start of the wexford bypass

Chris_5339762

spacetweek wrote: »

Seem to be unable to find it now, but there's an article today that confirmed that the plan has been changed and that the bypass will indeed extend beyond Oilgate now.

A rare piece of common sense.

Will this delay the project at all? What stage is the Oilgate bypass at?

In any case I'll assume they get the current plans built & done and then just keep working on Oilgate under the same project envelope.

jd

They haven't done a detailed design from the planned roundabout north of Oylegate southwards. There is a 300m corridor and land will still have to be CPO'd, I guess

Schadenfreudia

Will the Oilgate bypass be full motorway spec?

jd

Schadenfreudia wrote:

Will the Oilgate bypass be full motorway spec?

No idea. It may be hard to get specific details in run up to the election.

loyatemu

BoatMad wrote: »

Yes but given the county Capital is effectively down the road, surely it makes sense to run the M11, to the start of the wexford bypass

not really, they're just tacking a few km of extra road onto an existing 40km bypass , through flat open countryside (it might end up being single carriageway with room to expand at a later date).

Going all the way to Wexford would be a much bigger job with a river crossing and a lot of extra bridges and junctions.

stampydmonkey

loyatemu wrote: »

not really, they're just tacking a few km of extra road onto an existing 40km bypass , through flat open countryside (it might end up being single carriageway with room to expand at a later date).

Going all the way to Wexford would be a much bigger job with a river crossing and a lot of extra bridges and junctions.

Agreed. The last 200m of the M11 G2E is actually not designated motorway . also the radius of the corridor above wouldn't allow for a motorway alignment.

jd

stampydmonkey wrote: »

Agreed. The last 200m of the M11 G2E is actually not designated motorway . also the radius of the corridor above wouldn't allow for a motorway alignment.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Motorway designation has to start at a junction. Or do you mean the first 200 meters will be single carriageway?
Thought 300 meters corridor width is plenty for a motorway, though I suspect it may be D2AP. Or are you talking about something else?

Carawaystick

Can't see how this isn't anything but election crap.
Where is the money for this going to come from? There is no Dáil to allow money
What project is going to be cut?

stampydmonkey

jd wrote: »

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Motorway designation has to start at a junction. Or do you mean the first 200 meters will be single carriageway?
Thought 300 meters corridor width is plenty for a motorway, though I suspect it may be D2AP. Or are you talking about something else?

No it doesn't. Look at the N6 for the last 5k on approach to galway. It's a dual at 100kph. The same was requested by the NRA at the time for the M11G2E for the last few 100ms. Look at the map. The blue lands are motorway designated as approved and signed off by the minister at 120kph. The black line at the approach to the junction is 100kph and not listed as motorway land under the schedules approved under the CPO order and signed off by the minister.

jd

stampydmonkey wrote: »

No it doesn't. Look at the N6 for the last 5k on approach to galway. It's a dual at 100kph. The same was requested by the NRA at the time for the M11G2E for the last few 100ms. Look at the map. The blue lands are motorway designated as approved and signed off by the minister at 120kph. The black line at the approach to the junction is 100kph and not listed as motorway land under the schedules approved under the CPO order and signed off by the minister.

M6 goes from Motorway to N road at junction 19
https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Galway/@53.2946019,-8.9336461,16z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x485b93955a2d5bff:0x32b1b440a495281?hl=en

Reading the details on the Rosslare-Oylegate scheme, they mention a junction north of Oylegate (sometime in the future).

Prior to building that, it looks like what was proposed was a roundabout on the existing N11 on to what will be the Enniscorthy Bypass. So that black line on a map above would have been essentially entry /egress from the motorway. If it is not under motorway restrictions, how does non - motorway traffic avoid the motorway if it enters from the roundabout. (Minister can redesignate a road as motorway after completion anyway)

It looks like plans are changing, so there may not be that 200 meters to ties in north of Oylegate, it may join the existing N11 further south

stampydmonkey

jd wrote: »

M6 goes from Motorway to N road at junction 19
https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Galway/@53.2946019,-8.9336461,16z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x485b93955a2d5bff:0x32b1b440a495281?hl=en

Reading the details on the Rosslare-Oylegate scheme, they mention a junction north of Oylegate (sometime in the future).

Prior to building that, it looks like what was proposed was a roundabout on the existing N11 on to what will be the Enniscorthy Bypass. So that black line on a map above would have been essentially entry /egress from the motorway. If it is not under motorway restrictions, how does non - motorway traffic avoid the motorway if it enters from the roundabout. (Minister can redesignate a road as motorway after completion anyway)

It looks like plans are changing...

Agreed. Only stating what was designed.

jd

jd wrote: »

From the Enniscorthy Guardian (should be available online later this week)

Link as online
http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/news/new-m11-bypass-will-now-extend-beyond-oylegate-34417339.html

Schadenfreudia

Leaving aside whether building an Oilgate bypass now is a good idea (possible implication for the remainder of the M11) doesn't it really confirm that shambolic parochial nature of Irish infrastructure "planning" that this could be tagged on after the contract was awarded?

What odds that one of the losing contenders for the Enniscorthy bypass won't go to court about this - delaying the project and costing millions in legal fees?

By then of course Howlin may be re-elected but no longer a Minister and, as ever, unaccountable.

GDSGR8

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

Leaving aside whether building an Oilgate bypass now is a good idea (possible implication for the remainder of the M11) doesn't it really confirm that shambolic parochial nature of Irish infrastructure "planning" that this could be tagged on after the contract was awarded?

What odds that one of the losing contenders for the Enniscorthy bypass won't go to court about this - delaying the project and costing millions in legal fees?

By then of course Howlin may be re-elected but no longer a Minister and, as ever, unaccountable.

There's no basis for a legal challenge, scope changes occur all the time on every infrastructural project.

Schadenfreudia

GDSGR8 wrote: »

There's no basis for a legal challenge, scope changes occur all the time on every infrastructural project.

"Scope"? This is more than that. And at the end a very expensive court procedure would deicide that....

jd

I think it's fairly clear where the Oylegate Rosslare route will be, and the tie in (probably SC) to South of Oylegate will use the corridor that has been essentially sterilised at this point. The CPO process will have to start pronto!

spacetweek

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

Leaving aside whether building an Oilgate bypass now is a good idea (possible implication for the remainder of the M11) doesn't it really confirm that shambolic parochial nature of Irish infrastructure "planning" that this could be tagged on after the contract was awarded

Very over the top.
It's clearly an example of good planning - they planned on bypassing Oylegate all along and will now do it as part of this scheme instead of the next.
This will afaik remove the last unbypassed town on the N11. The future Oylegate-Rosslare scheme will just be safety and capacity.

josip

spacetweek wrote: »

Very over the top.
It's clearly an example of good planning - they planned on bypassing Oylegate all along and will now do it as part of this scheme instead of the next.
This will afaik remove the last unbypassed town on the N11. The future Oylegate-Rosslare scheme will just be safety and capacity.

Would 'parochial' be fair though, given the timing of the announcement?

spacetweek

josip wrote: »

Would 'parochial' be fair though, given the timing of the announcement?

No?
The only people who benefit are the residents of Oylegate. Let's not have 'election stunt' as a kneejerk reaction.

GDSGR8

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

"Scope"? This is more than that. And at the end a very expensive court procedure would deicide that....

Of course it's a scope change, and as a proportion of the total scheme cost it would be well within generally recognised acceptable limits. It's inclusion effectively signals that any planned improvements to the rest of the route are being long-fingered. Howlin is labours answer to the healy-raes though.

josip

spacetweek wrote: »

No?
The only people who benefit are the residents of Oylegate. Let's not have 'election stunt' as a kneejerk reaction.

I didn't use the term 'election stunt', maybe some other poster did.
Why do you say it's kneejerk? I've said for the last few weeks on the N25 thread that I believe the good news announcements will be timed for maximum effect in the election. It would be naive to believe otherwise, given the geographic nature of our representation system.
I thought the bypass would benefit everyone from either side of Oylegate who use the N11, not just residents of Oylegate?

Schadenfreudia

spacetweek wrote: »

Very over the top.

Can anyone be that naive I asks myself :rolleyes:

But maybe I'm too cynical (aka realistic)....