Protest in March. Donate.

Arcus Arrow

Protest March
Date: Wednesdat 24 March 2010
Time: 11.30 am
Assembly point: St. Marys Pro-Cathedral, Marlborough St. Dublin
Destination: Dail Eireann, Kildare Street, Dublin 2



Despite the horrific systematic abuse revealed by the Ferns, Ryan and Murphy reports most of the 26 dioceses of the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland have still not been fully investigated. The victims of the Magdalene Laundries have not even been included in any compensation scheme. Victims of clerical child rape and torture called to give evidence before the Redress scheme could only do so after signing a gagging order. Children illegally incarcerated and abused for years have still not had their criminal records expunged. The Vatican has treated both the State and the victims as almost minor irritants. Bishops involved in the cover up have refused to resign. During the revelations of this scandal the Roman Catholic Church introduced the concept of “mental reservation”: when the Catholic Church tells lies it’s not telling lies it’s just not telling the truth as ordinary mortals might understand the term.
The religious perpetrators of this abuse were guaranteed anonymity before the Ryan commission after a legal action by the Christian brothers. They may be watching your children now for all we know.

And if you tolerate this, then your children will be next.

Manic Street Preachers.

If you can contribute anythinga at all:

Bank of Ireland, Oughterard, Galway, Ireland

Account Name: Fire and Ice

Account number: 43650724

Sort Code: 90 39 39

IBAN NO: IE08BOF 1903 9394 3650 724

Phone Bank of Ireland: 00353 91 55 2123

Phone Barry Clifford: 00353 87 7511113 or 00353 91 86 8791

Email: barryclifford@gmail.com

Goduznt Xzst

I'm not in the habit of just giving money to some person on the internet.

Who do you represent and what will the money be used for?

strobe

Why does a protest march need monetary donations? Are you planning to buy everyone that attends nice comfortable shoes to march in? I'm hugely confused Ted....

Arcus Arrow

The March is being organised by Barry Clifford (see above) Honora Brennan and Paddy Doyle.
http://www.paddydoyle.com/

All the above are survivors of church run institutions.

So far the following have agreed to attend.

Ivana Bacik,
http://www.ivanabacik.com/
Sinead O'Connor,
http://www.sineadoconnor.com/
John O'Mahony FG
http://johnomahony.finegael.ie/representatives/common/index.cfm

Most TD's have yet to reply.

Mary Harney, through her secretary, has declined an invitation to attend.

Money is needed for posters, banners, faxes, a PA system, postage, TShirts, leaflets, advertisements and baby shoes.

What exactly is the goal of this protest?

Also can you edit the text of the OP to make it smaller.

Arcus Arrow

Deleted User wrote: »

What exactly is the goal of this protest?

Also can you edit the text of the OP to make it smaller.

(I reduced the text so I hope that's better now).

The goal is to make sure this is not forgotten. The government and the Church have engaged in PR damage limitation. Most of the victims will never be known. The Indemnity deal was designed to ensure it kept its money and ordinary taxpayers paid the bill for their child rape and torture.


The CCL still controls 92% of the schools. FF and FG are still quite justified in thinking they are better off politically siding with the Church than siding with anyone who thinks it's time the Roman Church was brought to book.

The Mad Hatter

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

The March is being organised by Barry Clifford (see above) Honora Brennan and Paddy Doyle.
http://www.paddydoyle.com/

All the above are survivors of church run institutions.

So far the following have agreed to attend.

Ivana Bacik,
http://www.ivanabacik.com/
Sinead O'Connor,
http://www.sineadoconnor.com/
John O'Mahony FG
http://johnomahony.finegael.ie/representatives/common/index.cfm

Most TD's have yet to reply.

Mary Harney, through her secretary, has declined an invitation to attend.

Money is needed for posters, banners, faxes, a PA system, postage, TShirts, leaflets, advertisements and baby shoes.

Have you talked to Joe Higgins?

Tim Robbins

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

(I reduced the text so I hope that's better now).

The goal is to make sure this is not forgotten. The government and the Church have engaged in PR damage limitation. Most of the victims will never be known. The Indemnity deal was designed to ensure it kept its money and ordinary taxpayers paid the bill for their child rape and torture.


The CCL still controls 92% of the schools. FF and FG are still quite justified in thinking they are better off politically siding with the Church than siding with anyone who thinks it's time the Roman Church was brought to book.

The protest is organised on a week day - I'd consider going if it was the weekend and Sinead O'Connor was involved as I think she's a nut.

Also, why not get some more reputable people behind it. Colm O'Gorman for example.

Arcus Arrow

Tim Robbins wrote: »

The protest is organised on a week day - I'd consider going if it was the weekend and Sinead O'Connor was involved as I think she's a nut.
Also, why not get some more reputable people behind it. Colm O'Gorman for example.

As many people as possible are being contacted. As with everything different people have their reasons as to why they will/can or can't/won't attend.

Who exactly is "nuts" in Ireland? Are the people who send their children to schools run by Bishops who covered up child rape "nuts" or are they just not making the connection?

Are all the organisations in Ireland who are, like the whole country, literally walking among the slowly emerging survivors of a holocaust "nuts" for insulating themselves in their own little bubbles?

Considering the almost muted way this country has responded to decades of brutal systematic child rape, imprisonment, slavery and torture, calling those who try do something nuts does not say much for those who do nothing.

To send money by IBAN & SWIFT only costs €0.50! You have to go into your bank and send it from there.

Whether it's a €1000.00 or €1 it won't go to waste.

Zillah

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

And if you tolerate this, then your children will be next.

Get out.

If you can contribute anythinga at all:

Get out.

Tim Robbins

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

Who exactly is "nuts" in Ireland? Are the people who send their children to schools run by Bishops who covered up child rape "nuts" or are they just not making the connection?

There are many different ways to make your point. I just don't think hanging out with Sinead O'Connor is good way of making what is a very good point.

I used to partipate in cycling protests years ago. And then a hole pack of nutters joined them and the protest lost its message and was completly useless.

Rev Hellfire

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

Considering the almost muted way this country has responded to decades of brutal systematic child rape, imprisonment, slavery and torture, calling those who try do something nuts does not say much for those who do nothing.

Have you considered that perhaps people really don't care?
Lets face it in these difficult times people have enough to be doing worrying about themselves and keeping a roof over their heads.

Anyway surely this march should be heading to residence of the bishop of Armagh, since that's the representative of the organisation which ran these institutions.

Arcus Arrow

Tim Robbins wrote: »

There are many different ways to make your point. I just don't think hanging out with Sinead O'Connor is good way of making what is a very good point.

I used to partipate in cycling protests years ago. And then a hole pack of nutters joined them and the protest lost its message and was completly useless.

I know where your'e coming from but it's not about Sinead O'Connor or any other individual. Eveyone is welcome to join in or do whatever they can.

Erren Music

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

I know where your'e coming from but it's not about Sinead O'Connor or any other individual. Eveyone is welcome to join in or do whatever they can.

At least you are doing something

Arcus Arrow

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Have you considered that perhaps people really don't care?
Lets face it in these difficult times people have enough to be doing worrying about themselves and keeping a roof over their heads.

Anyway surely this march should be heading to residence of the bishop of Armagh, since that's the representative of the organisation which ran these institutions.

Your'e right: people in this country don't care. That's exactly the problem.

Thousands of civil servants marched on the streets in protests against government plans to cut back over a billion euro in public sector payments. The amount they want to cut back is almost exactly the same amount taxpayers have to fork out for child rape and torture thanks to the Indemnity Deal. The Roman Church operates a religious black economy that keeps no accounts and sucks an unknown amount of money out of the economy. For every euro of tax not collected someone else has to pay.

The representative of the organisation which ran the institutions is the Papal Legate. President Mary McAleese greets this ambassador of a little state in Rome as the Head of the Diplomatic Corps. Ireland does not have to do this but as long as people don't protest our politicians will side with their religious masters.

aidan24326

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

The Indemnity deal was designed to ensure it kept its money and ordinary taxpayers paid the bill for their child rape and torture.

It is undeniably a scandal that the costs are being foisted onto the taxpayer, and the church abdicating on their responsibility as usual.

However Article 44.6 of The Irish Constitution protects church propery and assets.

article 44.6 wrote:

The property of any religious denomination or any educational institution shall not be diverted save for necessary works of public utility and on payment of compensation.

So their assets can't be touched. Why it was deemed necessary to have that in the constitution I don't know, no doubt there was a few influential bishops at the table when it was being drawn up. In Eastern Canada the Christian Brothers were forced to sell off nearly all of of their property to cover their compensation and legal bills, and it pretty much wiped them out. Not here in Ireland where the catholic church are inextricably woven into our constitution, in spite of this little ditty:

article 44.2.2 wrote:

The State guarantees not to endow any religion

Could have fooled me.

Arcus Arrow

Erren Music wrote: »

At least you are doing something

I'm really doing something for myself as well when it comes right down to it. My nieces and nephews have to be baptised to make sure they can get a school place and to ensure they won't be discriminated against.
Like the Rev says people are more concerned about raising their families and keeping a roof over their heads. They can't afford to be making a stand against a monolith by using their children as symbols of protest. Why should they? People do what they can afford to do.
The CCL (Catholic Church Limited) has ridden out bigger storms than this in its history because of the depth of power it has over the system. It's more than possible that pressuring them to treat the victims of their reign of child rape fairly will not only help the survivors but help you as well.
The victims of the Roman Church and it's insidious infiltration of politics in this country ultimately includes everyone on this island.

Arcus Arrow

aidan24326 wrote: »

So their assets can't be touched. Why it was deemed necessary to have that in the constitution I don't know, no doubt there was a few influential bishops at the table when it was being drawn up. In Eastern Canada the Christian Brothers were forced to sell off nearly all of of their property to cover their compensation and legal bills, and it pretty much wiped them out. Not here in Ireland where the catholic church are inextricably woven into our constitution, in spite of this little ditty:

Could have fooled me.

The Congregational Indemnity Agreement: An Unconstitutional Endowment of Religion , it is written by Eoin Daly, a PhD candidate at the faculty of law in UCC and a Government of Ireland research scholar in the humanities and social sciences.

He writes that the indemnity offended Article 44.2.2 of the Constitution, which states that “the State guarantees not to endow any religion”.
In 2002, and in exchange for contributing €128 million in cash and property to a State redress scheme for former residents of the institutions, the 18 congregations were indemnified by the State until the end of 2005 against any legal actions taken against them by the former residents.


http://www.paddydoyle.com/article-says-indemnity-was-unconstitutional-2/

Erren Music

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

I'm really doing something for myself as well when it comes right down to it. My nieces and nephews have to be baptised to make sure they can get a school place and to ensure they won't be discriminated against.

I know, its totally insane, to ensure they don't get discriminated you give the paedo network 8 years to fcuk the kids heads up with lies.

What type of a fcuked up moronic society do we live in at all.

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

The CCL (Catholic Church Limited) has ridden out bigger storms than this in its history because of the depth of power it has over the system. It's more than possible that pressuring them to treat the victims of their reign of child rape fairly will not only help the survivors but help you as well.
The victims of the Roman Church and it's insidious infiltration of politics in this country ultimately includes everyone on this island.

They won't ride this one out. They know that everyday there are more and more like me, and less of them.

I will be at your protest.

Arcus Arrow

Erren Music wrote: »

I know, its totally insane, to ensure they don't get discriminated you give the paedo network 8 years to fcuk the kids heads up with lies.

What type of a fcuked up moronic society do we live in at all.


They won't ride this one out. They know that everyday there are more and more like me, and less of them.

I will be at your protest.

Thanks. If you can think of anywhere you can post the OP or anyone who you can email it to I'd appreciate it.

If possible can you bring as many pairs of baby/childrens shoes as you can and if possible black ribbon. The charity shops have cheap childrens shoes that can be bought for €.50

Erren Music

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

Thanks. If you can think of anywhere you can post the OP or anyone who you can email it to I'd appreciate it.

If possible can you bring as many pairs of baby/childrens shoes as you can and if possible black ribbon. The charity shops have cheap childrens shoes that can be bought for €.50

Yea, will turn up with band, would you like us to sing the new song

Arcus Arrow

Erren Music wrote: »

Yea, will turn up with band, would you like us to sing the new song

It's not up to me Erren but I'll pass it on if you can send me a link to the song.

Dades

Erren Music wrote: »

I know, its totally insane, to ensure they don't get discriminated you give the paedo network 8 years to fcuk the kids heads up with lies.

Your choice of terms to describe the church is becoming tiresome and predictable. Temper your posts in future, and stop preaching to the choir here.

Also, fyi, you know once your child is in a school you can immediately opt them out of religious education. It doesn't make the situation right - just not as dramatic as made out to be.

hamonrye

do you know what time you'll be outside the dail at. College at that time etc.

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

Arcus Arrow

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Also, why not get some more reputable people behind it. Colm O'Gorman for example.

Apparently Colm O'Gorman will be there but I'm not 100% sure.

Arcus Arrow

hamonrye wrote: »

do you know what time you'll be outside the dail at. College at that time etc.

I imagine it would probably be between 1.30 and 2 pm.

Coriolanus

I dislike marches on principle. The ratio of effectiveness to effort per head is ridiculously skewed such as to make them a waste of time. Seriously, I'll donate money for anything up to and including a letter bombing campaign, but meh to marches.

Erren Music

Dades wrote: »

Your choice of terms to describe the church is becoming tiresome and predictable. Temper your posts in future, and stop preaching to the choir here.

Temper my posts, are you serious. This is a forum for people who take the view that religion is nonsense. Why do we tolerate this living in a country dictated too by a bunch of FSM wizards, brainwashing our kids with fiction.

Dades wrote: »

Also, fyi, you know once your child is in a school you can immediately opt them out of religious education. It doesn't make the situation right - just not as dramatic as made out to be.

Its still has a religious ethos.

It should be no religion in any schools in the 21st century.

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

At the very least you could quote me correctly.

Brutal in language in that it will expose the lies of the church in what it did and is still doing today. Not what you imply.

Arcus Arrow

Nevore wrote: »

I dislike marches on principle. The ratio of effectiveness to effort per head is ridiculously skewed such as to make them a waste of time. Seriously, I'll donate money for anything up to and including a letter bombing campaign, but meh to marches.

Apparently the British government thought them so ineffective they let the Parachute regiment use one for target practice.;)

Dades

Erren Music wrote: »

Temper my posts, are you serious. This is a forum for people who take the view that religion is nonsense.

I don't you need you to tell anyone what this forum is for. What is isn't for is soapboxing or repeated ranting in a crude fashion about a particular issue. Seriously just relax and realise this is a discussion forum not your personal placard.

lynski

i have a bunch of baby shoes if anyone wants them - daughter has very small feet and will not get to use most of the ones i have been given. I am in kildare and can meet if someone wants to arrange it, just pm me.
while i support the idea that the rcc needs out of our schools and there should be a lot of them clogging up our prisons and courts right now i am not sure that a march on a weekday is a great idea, also your objective is not too clear.
but good luck with it.
ps. i do not find you language offensive.

Arcus Arrow

lynski wrote: »

i have a bunch of baby shoes if anyone wants them - daughter has very small feet and will not get to use most of the ones i have been given. I am in kildare and can meet if someone wants to arrange it, just pm me.
while i support the idea that the rcc needs out of our schools and there should be a lot of them clogging up our prisons and courts right now i am not sure that a march on a weekday is a great idea, also your objective is not too clear.
but good luck with it.
ps. i do not find you language offensive.

Thanks. I'll send you a PM and see what we can arrange. I'm not sure if I know anyone up that way.

If anybody can go to charity shops or if anybody has old unwanted childrens or baby shoes send me a pm. The condition of the shoes does not matter. All you need is some black ribbon to go with them.

In your own area on the day if you have old shoes and some black ribbon hang them up somewhere they can be seen.

After the shoes are hung take a photo, record the location and send me a PM.

Of course we do not encourage littering or placing shoes where the breaking of any law would be involved.

Arcus Arrow

Hello, does anyone know how to contact people like Gabriell Byrne and Brenda Fricker?

rccaulfield

I started reading the thread thinking- great i'll be there- then you ended by just looking for money not for marchers? P.s. i don't think a march just to remind people is any use! Rather a March aimed at having the @Primate' (lol) charged for not reporting a crime!

Arcus Arrow

rccaulfield wrote: »

I started reading the thread thinking- great i'll be there- then you ended by just looking for money not for marchers? P.s. i don't think a march just to remind people is any use! Rather a March aimed at having the @Primate' (lol) charged for not reporting a crime!

Unfortunately organising a march like anything else costs money for practical reasons.

If you can march all the better since being there physically says more than an amount of money in a bank account. Most of the expenses have been met by people digging into their own pockets.

There are so many issues it's hard to pick just one. All the bishops Gardai and politicians who took part in the cover up should be facing criminal chagres. The whole system is rotten to the core. Lots of people in this country think "something" should be done while not doing anything themselves. That's just the kind of country this is.

Irishlady99

Tim Robbins wrote: »

The protest is organised on a week day - I'd consider going if it was the weekend and Sinead O'Connor was involved as I think she's a nut.

Also, why not get some more reputable people behind it. Colm O'Gorman for example.

Sinead is not a nut. You obviously know NOTHING about her! I say bravo to her for having the courage to once again take this issue on.

Blueboyd

Who cares if she is a nut or not - stupid is as stupid does, says Forest Gump's mama.

Besides when she spoke of church child abuse it was 1992 while we others were still s***ting in our pants.

Irishlady99

Blueboyd wrote: »

Who cares if she is a nut or not - stupid is as stupid does, says Forest Gump's mama.

Besides when she spoke of church child abuse it was 1992 while we others were still s***ting in our pants.

Actually, no I was in my 20ties. You little babies know nothing about her. Just leave her alone and lets get to the cause. Calling her names takes away from what is important.

Blueboyd

babies LOL

Arcus Arrow

Blueboyd wrote: »

Who cares if she is a nut or not - stupid is as stupid does, says Forest Gump's mama.

Besides when she spoke of church child abuse it was 1992 while we others were still s***ting in our pants.

When she tore up the Popes picture all those years ago I admired what she did. The Papacy is a poisonous institutions and it always will be. Tearing up the Popes picture wouldn't look so odd now. She's not perfect by any means but who is?

I can't help wondering where are the likes of Bono and Geldof shouting from the rooftops about something that is happening right here? If it happened in the 3rd world would they be holding concerts for the victims and asking to meet world leaders to demand a solution to the issue?

Here is Sinead on TV3 this week after it appears she's taken considerable trouble to study the whole issue.
http://www.tv3.ie/videos.php?video=20757&locID=1.65.74&date=2010-03-23&date_mode=1&page=1&show_cal=2&newspanel=&showspanel=1&web_only=&full_episodes=

Blueboyd

Difficult to admit anything for someone who is infallible - or so the doctrine says

Vatican - it is a house of cards - and they know it

I'm not denying the exsitence of God but anybody who says he/she knows anything about God or says this text is from God and that not - is a liar

Talking about name calling - I really love Sinéad - I do - but when she became a priest I started to call her "the Little-Vatican" - even if I do understand it is sort of a cultural attempt for her to renew the Frucked up church - but in my eyes what has any church to do with God. There is more God in an ant nest than in the RCC or in any other religion.

But I wish the best of luck for the march. Am not in town so can't be there but I hope lots of people come. We all help in the ways that suits us best.

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

Blackhorse Slim

Blueboyd wrote: »

There is more God in an ant nest than in the RCC or in any other religion.

Not technically true. There is precisely the same amount.

Blueboyd

Blackhorse Slim wrote: »

Not technically true. There is precisely the same amount.

True - put the ants haven't hidden it...

edit: from themselves

Arcus Arrow

Plowman wrote: »

Genuine question here. What religion (if any) is Sinead O'Connor?

Beats me!

As it happenes she didn't turn up nor did Ivan Bacik or the FG TD. There were about 70 to 100 people alltogether. The papers have not covered it very well that I'm aware so far. The Pro was crawling with media but a lot of this stuff ends up a file footage.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0325/1224267012096.html

(The quote about the 147 pairs is wrong. There were 1000 pairs brought of which I'm estimating about 300 were actually hung on the railings of the Pro and the Dail. The ones on the Pro were hung around 11.30 am and the attached photo (attached) was taken about 4.30pm when they were still there. While people were hanging them a priest entering the Pro hissed "crap, crap, crap".... )


I bought the shoes to try to establish the symbol of children’s shoes on black ribbon as a protest symbol against the child rape torture and its cover up by the CCL (Catholic Church Limited.) Anyone anywhere can take old children’s shoes and hang them on doorknobs lamp posts or hold them up with black mourning ribbon wherever Herr Ratzinger or one of his lackeys is parading. They can also be left right in the church during mass.....(more on that later).

FXR

Blueboyd

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

She answers you in the last pragraph

Arcus Arrow

Blueboyd wrote: »

She answers you in the last pragraph

I actually think that in some ways the most effective critics of religion are religious people. I think they often do a lot more damage from the inside. If your'e an atheist everything you say can be dismissed as an outside attack.

Blueboyd

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

I actually think that in some ways the most effective critics of religion are religious people. I think they often do a lot more damage from the inside. If your'e an atheist everything you say can be dismissed as an outside attack.

yeah we humans are great ones giving labels to dismiss what the other person is saying.


leftist, rightwing bigot, liberal, secular, atheist, mad-woman, terrorist, fundamentalist etc.

Arcus Arrow

Blueboyd wrote: »

yeah we humans are great ones giving labels to dismiss what the other person is saying.


leftist, rightwing bigot, liberal, secular, atheist, mad-woman, terrorist, fundamentalist etc.

One wonders where all the famous Irish campaigners who are so prominent on the world stage. Ignoring decades of child rape, torture, slave labour and abuse carried out on the country’s children is like the Jews pretending the Holocaust was an inconvenient revelation that might just go away if it's ignored.

Arcus Arrow

It's Friday afternoon. The march was on Wednesday but still the front of the Pro Cathedral is lined with childrends shoes. They should have been taken down by now but they've been left there so far. A few people have started to stop by and re-tie any loose shoes. A few more people have started to add shoes to the collection after asking what they were there for.