What You Leave Behind

Josey Wales

Well I just finished watching the entire run of DS9. I bought the complete series last year and have been making my way through it since about August or September 2009. I knew it was good from the first time it was on TV but watching it again I realise that I didn't appreciate it enough. It really was the best TV show ever, in my opinion.

Fittingly, the last episode, What You Leave Behind was tremendous. The whole Final Chapter arc (9 episodes) was amazing. I had forgotten how much there was to wrap up and how well they pulled it off. The finale was action packed and had such emotion to it too.

I remember the first time I saw it, I felt let down that Capt. Sisko didn't get a happy ending. Watching now though, I realise that that might not be the case. They did leave it open for him to return. What do people here think happened to Sisko?

Was 'What You Leave Behind' the best TV finale ever? Was it even the best Star Trek finale (thinking of 'All Good Things')?

helimachoptor

It was a lot sadder than TNG, Sisko is "dead" for who knows how long. Odo heads off back to the founders for who knows how long, Worf actually leaves starfleet always wanted to see him captain his own ship.
O'Brien heads back to Earth, a real break up of the group.

Goodshape

helimachoptor wrote: »

Worf actually leaves starfleet

Did he? Can't quite remember what happened to him in that episode.

Wasn't Nemesis set after the DS9 final?

Goodshape

Just checked Wikipedia..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worf#Deep_Space_Nine

Wikipedia wrote:

After the conclusion of the Dominion War, Worf is made the Federation ambassador to Qo'noS (the Klingon homeworld), as depicted in the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine series finale "What You Leave Behind". By Star Trek Nemesis, he has returned to Starfleet, and once again serves on the Enterprise under Captain Picard.

Ugh. I hated the way they kept shoe-horning Worf back onto the Enterprise in those films.

Cookie_Monster

it was left like that for a planned movie wasn't it?

But then Nemisis came along and ruined everything

Myrddin

Josey Wales wrote: »

Well I just finished watching the entire run of DS9. I bought the complete series last year and have been making my way through it since about August or September 2009. I knew it was good from the first time it was on TV but watching it again I realise that I didn't appreciate it enough. It really was the best TV show ever, in my opinion.

Fittingly, the last episode, What You Leave Behind was tremendous. The whole Final Chapter arc (9 episodes) was amazing. I had forgotten how much there was to wrap up and how well they pulled it off. The finale was action packed and had such emotion to it too.

I remember the first time I saw it, I felt let down that Capt. Sisko didn't get a happy ending. Watching now though, I realise that that might not be the case. They did leave it open for him to return. What do people here think happened to Sisko?

Was 'What You Leave Behind' the best TV finale ever? Was it even the best Star Trek finale (thinking of 'All Good Things')?

Couldnt agree more. Absoloutely fantatsic show, from late season 2 onwards. The novels depicted Sisko's return, which I HAD to read because I couldnt accept that was that. Unity I think was the name of the novel of his return. Im rewatching again, and just finshed Paradise Lost last night from season 4...cant get enough of it

Klingon Hamlet

Goodshape wrote: »

Ugh. I hated the way they kept shoe-horning Worf back onto the Enterprise in those films.

Yeah well IMHO it was at least a decent bit of badassery seeing the Defiantdoing what she did best at the start of First Contact: taking a massive beating from a Brog ship and surviving. Thank you ablative armour. And seeing Work roar, "Perhaps today is a good day to die!" That made me grin.

Having him and his support crew confront the Borg made sense; if Earth was overrun, Sisko and other captains could hold the fort at other stations, and fight back.

As for Insurrection...I believe Worf just arrives, everyone exclaims "Worf!" (as if no-one notified Picard et al that he had arrived) and then the Klingon goes to explain his presence, when, lo and behold...we switch to Riker and LaForge I think? They distracted the audience before they could think about it!!!

And Nemesis?! Pah! Never mind why was Worf there? Why was WESLEY there?



Oh that's right. Stuart Baird is a retard and doesn't know who Wesley is, so cuts his scenes. And doesn't know who Laverne is either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckj8u71nDtY

(Goto 5:20 ha)

Magic Eight Ball

Yeah didn't Frakes blame Baird on the failure of Nemesis.

CSaber

In Insurrection you can just hear Worf explaining to Picard that he was checking some planet's defences that was nearby so decided to pop in and say hello.

Svalbard

Huge DS9 fan here.

I first saw What You Leave Behind in isolation. Id didnt have 'de channelz' back in the 90's (deprived I know) so watched the series in bits and pieces and have seen most of it now except for chunks of seasons 3 and 4.

I had seen none of season 7 and little of 6 when I bought the final episode - and I was disappointed. Granted some of the stuff caught me off guard - Dukat as a Bajoran, Damar is a goodguy, the Breem etc etc, but mostly I thought it was grandiose, over reaching and a bit silly, Especially some of the dialogue. It lacked subtlety and intelligence, hallmarks of classic DS9.

However, when I finally did watch it in sequence I really did enjoy it and could not see how they could have resolved things better without adding a few more episodes or even a season 8 (*sigh, just imagine).

IMHO DS9 season 5 was the best. Just....wow.

goretti

Loved DS9 - best of all Star Trek aired series. "What You Leave Behind" was a true finale!

Magic Eight Ball

goretti wrote: »

Loved DS9 - best of all Star Trek aired series. "All Good Things" was a true finale!

Fixed that for ya.

Myrddin

Just finished WYLB last night (full series run), astonishingly good, for me it pips All Good Things to the post... DS9 when watched from start to finish is without a doubt the best Trek of all, masterful finale.

cyrusdvirus

EnterNow wrote: »

Just finished WYLB last night (full series run), astonishingly good, for me it pips All Good Things to the post... DS9 when watched from start to finish is without a doubt the best Trek of all, masterful finale.

that's cos they went with a story arc towards the end, as opposed to baddie of the week concept

Myrddin

gatecrash wrote: »

that's cos they went with a story arc towards the end, as opposed to baddie of the week concept

That arc started LONG before the end. Anyway, time to take the plunge into Lost - yeah I know, Im a late starter

yogidc26

I dont know how pople are saying DS9 is better that TNG.

Dont get me wrong im a big fan of the two of them but the last two seasons of DS9 are pi22 poor as were the TNG got better as it went along

Josey Wales

yogidc26 wrote: »

I dont know how pople are saying DS9 is better that TNG.

Dont get me wrong im a big fan of the two of them but the last two seasons of DS9 are pi22 poor as were the TNG got better as it went along

I couldn't disagree with this more. Series 6 & 7 were excellent with all the previous seasons feeding into them. So much had built up that it was going to be hard to wrap it all up. The fact that they managed that was amazing.

They took a bold step to open season 6 with a 6 or 7 episode arc and the final 10 episode arc is the best Trek of all time.

Just my opinion.

helimachoptor

just finished watching seasons 4-7 of DS9, I wonder if Odo ever comes back

edit: Marc Alaimo what a cracking actor

Kiith

Dukat was definitely one of the best characters in Star Trek's history. Not so fond of the Pah'wraiths storyline, but other then that he was great.

Josey Wales

helimachoptor wrote: »

just finished watching seasons 4-7 of DS9, I wonder if Odo ever comes back

I think you can find out the answer to that in the novels that were released when the series finished to continue on the story.

Cookie_Monster

Josey Wales wrote: »

I think you can find out the answer to that in the novels that were released when the series finished to continue on the story.

not cannon though

Josey Wales

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

not cannon though

Oh I thought they were. I just checked Wiki and you're right. I've no interest now in reading them myself. I was thinking of getting the first one to see what it is like.

IvySlayer

DS9 wasn't great until it hit around Season 5. Seasons 6 and 7 were excellent. TNG will always be my favourite, but the storylines of of DS9 made me the most excited.

norrie rugger

IvySlayer wrote: »

DS9 wasn't great until it hit around Season 5. Seasons 6 and 7 were excellent. TNG will always be my favourite, but the storylines of of DS9 made me the most excited.

Season 3 on of DS9 they were cracking them out.
Great storytelling

Vokes

Actually, i'd nearly go just a little one further and say it was from the season 2 finale ("The Jem Hadar") onwards that the episodes generally stepped it up a notch


As regards "What You Leave Behind" - I remember absolutely loving the 1st half of the finale but then it all went a bit flat for me with the Sisko / Bajor bit in the latter half. Felt a bit let down by it and thst it wasn't on a par with the general awesomeness of the final season.

I reckon I need to watch the whole series again - its been about 8 years for me, so will be interesting to see how the whole thing holds up. Is there nywhere online doing a season 1-7 boxset for cheap-ish?

Cookie_Monster

Its just at the end of series 5 on Virgin 1 at the moment.
Every weekday at 4

somuj

Vokes wrote: »

Actually, i'd nearly go just a little one further and say it was from the season 2 finale ("The Jem Hadar") onwards that the episodes generally stepped it up a notch


As regards "What You Leave Behind" - I remember absolutely loving the 1st half of the finale but then it all went a bit flat for me with the Sisko / Bajor bit in the latter half. Felt a bit let down by it and thst it wasn't on a par with the general awesomeness of the final season.

I reckon I need to watch the whole series again - its been about 8 years for me, so will be interesting to see how the whole thing holds up. Is there nywhere online doing a season 1-7 boxset for cheap-ish?

Tis starting from the begining on CBS Action on Monday

Jim

I think I still prefer All Good Things. What You Leave Behind was excellent but let down by the conclusion to the Prophets story arc. Really poor imo.

PhiloCypher

Jim wrote: »

I think I still prefer All Good Things. What You Leave Behind was excellent but let down by the conclusion to the Prophets story arc. Really poor imo.

Im currently rewatching DS9 (im midway through season 5) but based on my recollection ^ that pretty much sums it up for me .

somuj

yogidc26 wrote: »

I dont know how pople are saying DS9 is better that TNG.

Dont get me wrong im a big fan of the two of them but the last two seasons of DS9 are pi22 poor as were the TNG got better as it went along

As individual episodes TNG kicks all know ass in all dimensions. But as a complete series DS9 hits all the right buttons from the last few episodes in season 2 onwards

PhiloCypher

somuj wrote: »

As individual episodes TNG kicks all know ass in all dimensions. But as a complete series DS9 hits all the right buttons from the last few episodes in season 2 onwards

I would agree with this , what it comes down to for me beyond the war arcs is that DS9 simply had the more interesting interpersonal relationships.

TNG had:

1. Picard/Data
2. Picard/Guinan
3. La'forge/Data

DS9 had :

1. Sisko/Jake
2. Sisko/Kira
3. Sisko/Dukat
4. Sisko/Eddington
5. Kira/Dukat
6. Kira/Odo
7. Odo/Quark
8. O Brien/Bashir
9. Bashir/Garak
10. Dukat/Weyoun
11. Damar/weyoun

Now I may have missed a few on both sides but you get the picture, not to diss TNG but DS9 simply has the far more varied and interesting character dynamics .