Why did you become a vegetarian?

entropi

Des Carter wrote: »

Ok I was just looking through this thread and couldnt help noticing a touch of ignorance in a number of the posts.

Now before ye all go giving out to me for being a veggie hater Im not and infact I never eat burgers from places like supermacks/mcdonalds etc as the animals are often treated really poorly for long periods of time.

However I dont see the problem with eating meat that is fully traceable etc as I live on a farm and we treat our animals exceptionally well and they live rather happy pain-free lives and we only sell cattle to the factory when they're old

I just wonder did any of you consider that what ye are doing may have the opposite affect in that if we dont eat meat the price of meat will fall. It will fall to the point where it wont be profitable for farmers to keep cattle and as a result will have to get rid of their cattle but no1 will buy them so they call out the vet to put them all down and then cattle would become extinct and there would be no more cute calves for ye to look and smile at and say "awww your soooo cute, Ill never eat you" to

Just a thought

Can I ask you this: did you just find out about this forum after seeing that thread about veggies in AH?

To answer your query: There are people in this forum (not me) who live on a farm, look after animals yet are veggie. They, like most of us here, have their own reasons for choosing to not eat meat. The argument about prices of cattle going down etc is a moot point, there are always alternatives to raising cattle for slaughter...sure dont most of us veggies eat butter/drink milk or eat cheese and yogurt? There are too many cattle in the world anyway, way too much food is produced for the omnivore market anyway.

dermothickey

This thread is a discussion about why people became a vegetarian.I'm glad it's given you an insight in to the reasons why some people turned vegetarian. Try to refrain from calling people ignorant cos they don't eat beef. It's a personal choice they have and their reasons are their own.

sensibleken

Des Carter wrote: »

I just wonder did any of you consider that what ye are doing may have the opposite affect in that if we dont eat meat the price of meat will fall. It will fall to the point where it wont be profitable for farmers to keep cattle and as a result will have to get rid of their cattle but no1 will buy them so they call out the vet to put them all down and then cattle would become extinct and there would be no more cute calves for ye to look and smile at and say "awww your soooo cute, Ill never eat you" to

Just a thought

oh yeah thats why farmed animals are the only animals on earth, because the rest have all been killed for being non- tasty.
its like when they realised that leeches didnt cure madness, it took them allot of effort but they wiped them out in the end. or now that we havent got the black plague anymore no need for all these pesky cats leaving their fur all over the place. lets get rid of them too.

no wolves in ireland anymore? see-ya wolfhound!

seriously though the were killing them on an industrial scale to save them from killing them alltogether arguement is not new and it makes no sense

Des Carter

OK first off

Master of Nothing wrote: »

Can I ask you this: did you just find out about this forum after seeing that thread about veggies in AH

Yes

Secondly

They, like most of us here, have their own reasons for choosing to not eat meat.

I know and I accept that and I have nothing against people who dont eat meat cause they dont like the idea of eating something that was once alive etc Im referring to the people who like meat but choose not to eat it cause of cruelty etc when in fact most cattle in Ireland live long cruelty-free lives.

there are always alternatives to raising cattle for slaughter...sure dont most of us veggies eat butter/drink milk or eat cheese and yogurt?

This does not apply to beef cattle like belgium blues, limousines and charolais etc as only dairy cattle like fresians, linebacks and Randalls are used in producing dairy products.

As for

There are too many cattle in the world anyway, way too much food is produced for the omnivore market anyway.

You do know we are at the beginning of the greatest food shortage the world has ever seen and millions upon millions of people are going to die of starvation

http://www.marketskeptics.com/2009/12/2010-food-crisis-for-dummies.html



and finally

oh yeah thats why farmed animals are the only animals on earth, because the rest have all been killed for being non- tasty.

No but farmed cattle are the only cattle in Ireland.

sensibleken

Des Carter wrote: »

No but farmed cattle are the only cattle in Ireland.

i dont get your point. if you remove a herbivores only predator they dont die from abandonment issues.

the point you made was if everyone was vegitarian people would intentionally cause the extinction of cattle. would we do this to clear land for more crops despite it takes much less land to plant crops than rear livestock? there is also plenty of examples of once domesticated animals such as goats and deer adapting perfectly well to feral conditions.

however, this is quite unlikely because if everyone became vegitarian because they suddenly cared that much about animal welfare its hardly likely theyd exterminate them. its also highly unlikely that everyone is going to become vegitarian, so its not really something we have to worry about

iUseVi

Des Carter wrote: »

No but farmed cattle are the only cattle in Ireland.

I don't get the reasoning Des. Yes perhaps the herds would reduce in number, but there would be plenty of space for them to live in the countryside, I don't see why the meat breeds wouldn't look after themselves. The problem is more with the milk breeds, which are bred to produce large amounts of milk and might suffer from not being milked often. Not sure about this and perhaps if the calves are left with them its not an issue but I'd have to check that.

Whispered

Des Carter wrote: »

You do know we are at the beginning of the greatest food shortage the world has ever seen and millions upon millions of people are going to die of starvation


.

Due to, among other things, an overpopulation of farm animals

http://www.idrc.ca/en/ev-30610-201-1-DO_TOPIC.html

this is also interesting.

http://consumercide.com/js/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=379:how-to-win-an-argument-with-a-meat-eater&catid=39:necessarily-vegetarian&Itemid=77

Granted it's an american site, but I assume cattle here in Ireland have similar needs.

We all have our views and we are all entitled to them. But to come into a vegetarian forum and call people ignorant because they don't agree with what you do for a living is just rude.

As for saying they are killed when old?? The average age is around 20 months according to this http://www.icbf.com/publications/files/New_beef_indexes_Dec06.pdf. Considering the average lifespan is 7-15 years. Thats hardly old.

If you hold onto them until they're "old" surely that greatly effects your profit margains, not to mention the quality of your meat.

Des Carter

ok when I said farmed cattle are the only cattle in Ireland I was stating a fact rather than an opinion or a belief.

As for cattle looking after themselves farmers would want to still make money on their land (they need an income too) so will want the cattle gone (not in a evil/cruel way) so they can use their land for other things (possibly selling for house sites, growing plants or forestry etc and wont be willing to give their land to the cattle.

This would mean limited space for cattle and hence death from starvation (not all of them) and in winter there would be hardley any food as there is no silage or hay being made.

Infact I saw this thing on the news a few years back (had a look there and couldnt find a link) where there were a herd of wild cattle in Cork or Kerry or somewhere and they kept attacking peoples land/gardens etc and the army were to be sent in to shoot them but the local farmers took them and domesticated them. This is actually true and Im not making it up.

Mark Hamill

Des Carter wrote: »

I know and I accept that and I have nothing against people who dont eat meat cause they dont like the idea of eating something that was once alive etc Im referring to the people who like meat but choose not to eat it cause of cruelty etc when in fact most cattle in Ireland live long cruelty-free lives.

And then they are killed for their meat. No matter how you try to spin it, the act of (unnecessarily) killing something for its meat is cruel, even if the creatures life was good. Hell, it doesn't even matter why you kill them, its still cruel and unnecessary. This is why if an octogenarian housewife, who lived a largely pain and cruelty free life, is murdered, we still call it murder. We dont just say, well their life was long and good, who cares about why they where killed.

Des Carter wrote: »

You do know we are at the beginning of the greatest food shortage the world has ever seen and millions upon millions of people are going to die of starvation

http://www.marketskeptics.com/2009/12/2010-food-crisis-for-dummies.html

Then wouldn't it be in our interest to stop using land for meat production and change to crops, as its more efficient and will give out more food?

dermothickey

Again please this forum is simply a forum asking people why they became vegetarian, If by all means you all want to argue may I suggest starting a new forum as I'm a forum Nazi

Des Carter

to come into a vegetarian forum and call people ignorant because they don't agree with what you do for a living is just rude.

Thats not what im doing I have stated on almost every post that Im not against vegetarians or think their ignorant etc

As for saying they are killed when old?? The average age is around 20 months

I never said all cattle are killed when they are old I said my cattle were as I have cows which we use for breeding and sell the calves for profit. Now if no one eats meat no1 would buy our calves and we wouldnt bull (impregnate) our cows. Then when they die through natural causes there will be no cows left.

the act of (unnecessarily) killing something for its meat is cruel, even if the creatures life was good.

Yes it is cruel but its better for the animal than the alternative which is living in the wild struggling to find food (especially in winter where there is no silage etc) and no vets to cure any cureable illnesses, pain etc where they will then die anyway (and probably in a more painful way than being shot in the head).

Finally

Then wouldn't it be in our interest to stop using land for meat production and change to crops, as its more efficient and will give out more food?

Yes I agree so if we stop using land for meat production what do we do with the cattle?
We kill them as they are eating too much crops or let them go out and fend for themselvs in places where crops cant grow (which is surprisingly limited) and let a large proportion of them die of starvation which was exactly my original point.

Whispered

Des Carter wrote: »

I never said all cattle are killed when they are old I said my cattle were as I have cows which we use for breeding and sell the calves for profit. Now if no one eats meat no1 would buy our calves and we wouldnt bull (impregnate) our cows. Then when they die through natural causes there will be no cows left.

I actually said the average age is 20 but

If you hold onto them until they're "old" surely that greatly effects your profit margains, not to mention the quality of your meat.

so you sell on calves for profit. To where, other places where they will be kept to have calves to sell on for profit? I doubt it, if they are beef cattle there is no difference. You are breeding animals for slaughter. Whether they live their 2 years with you or with another beef farmer, it's still 2 years.

Do you really think that if people cut down on meat, or even cut it out, that cows would die out?

Dermot, I just saw your request to keep this conversation out of this thread. I wont post here again about this matter. Des, would you like to start another thread?

dermothickey

Thanks Helena Just don't want people to feel discouraged from posting here

Des Carter

Helena, I would love to.

What will we call it?

Sorry Dermot, last post.

dermothickey

No need to be sorry it was an interesting Debate

Lia_lia

Was, er, born into it. Raised eating no meat. Hippy parents!

Then started eating a bit of meat when I was about 16, because I could. Gone completely vegetarian again now in the last few months. No real reason. Just don't really like meat anyway.

Konata

Well, I never really liked meat all that much. Rarely ate red meat up to the age of about 12 when I stopped entirely. The only meat I've eaten since then is chicken. I started getting more concerned about animal welfare about a year ago and decided to take the plunge and become a full on veggie! Aiming for vegan one day but not at the moment.

Novella

My dad was brought up on a farm and I remember when I was a kid, we were visiting and I actually saw turkeys being killed and I found it really difficult to eat Christmas dinner then. I'd never thought about where meat came from before that. My parents were having none of the, "But I don't want meat, I just don't like it" thing though. They thought it was a phase.

Then one day, in a restaurant, I noticed some pink in the chicken on my plate and spat whatever was in my mouth back out onto the plate. My mam never made me eat meat after that 'cause she was so embarrassed :pac:

Still ate meat every so often after that, then just decided to stop completely.

Tar.Aldarion

Well S, fancy meeting you here! I didn't know you were one of us too, and with all our lenthy talk about our backgrounds and all! I iz impressed :-P

Welcome to zee forum!


Miss Hotaru, same as you with the vegan thing but I just can't yet!

Konata

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Miss Hotaru, same as you with the vegan thing but I just can't yet!

Well, I'm already dairy free but... I love my eggs. Not ready to give them up just yet

Tar.Aldarion

Dairy free is damn hard but i would probably miss eggs more. Ideally I'll have my own chickens in like 10 years anyway, having the craic in the garden like

CathyMoran

Trying to go back to being vegetarian again - will see - the reason, I hate the idea of animals being killed, the big thing though was that there was a robins nest that had live streaming on one of the websites - looking at the little baby robins would put even the most hardhearted off meat.