Paranormal Groups Screwing it up for the Rest of Us

Traze

DANNY22XX wrote: »

i think if locations took deposits this wouldnt be a problem if i had a location i would be checking references for a team ie,,from the name they dropped to get in there and if they had a web presence ,,so i blame the locations for thinking they would be getting a team when they are thinking of money rather than know who in the name of jaysus is coming to there locations.

No deposit,no refrences,no website,, no investigation simple but hey thats just me ,,:rolleyes:

I agree with you danny, the reason as all of you know our team has been holding a few open investigations lately is to raise funds for charleville project

Now i know alot of your feelings towards this project, But for me i love helping out when i can not only from a paranormal point of view but a personal love of the place.

So i like to give up any free time i have to help out in any way i can, as alot of you have done yourself over the years.

Our team when doing open investigations charge the public a fee of 60 euro, this fee is paid directly to the castle fund and PRAI do not keep any of the fees charged.

As like every other team if we are called to investigate a home or business we do this at no cost other than to ourselves. As investigating the paranormal trough scientific means is what we like to do, This is our interest, NOT making money.


Traze

MrMojoRisin

Grimes wrote: »

Speaking of which

http://www.irishghosthunters.com/ set up last month & dont even have their website up yet are appearing in the Herlad today quoting this and that about the usual psychic crap and buckets of equipment .FFS

It's gas how they're called Irish Ghost Hunters when two of their newest 'recruits' - Angie and Keith Freeland - aren't even Irish. :pac: Those two run that Tony Award-worthy sh ite at Wicklow Gaol every month.

It's also gas how they have this long-winded spiel about all their "leading edge" paranormal equipment (the stuff that produces tangible evidence of phenomena), and then they're falling out of their paranormal palace at having a couple of psychics make their team "complete".

There's way too much going on there with all those members - too many cooks spoil the broth, as they say. That Caldwell fella looks like a right twat in those two shots of him - getting his nicely manicured hands all dirty in the midst of his dead serious (see what I did there?! ) paranormal investigation. Ditto for the other profile shots of the other folk. I'd be kind were it not for the fact that they actually seem to be serious.

It looks like a publicity and money-hungry venture to me. They're trying to get a TV show out of it and reel in the few hundred bob via organised investigations for Joe/Josephine Soaps on the back of it.

I agree that a woman suddenly bursting into tears in a cell is crap 'evidence' of paranormal activity. Was it not PMS, no? Paranormal Maniacal Shi te, that is.

Ah yes, IGH may be the death knell for well-meaning, serious and sincere paranormal investigation. :mad:

Riamfada

MrMojoRisin wrote: »

Ah yes, IGH may be the death knell for well-meaning, serious and sincere paranormal investigation. :mad:

+1

DANNY22XX

Traze wrote: »

I agree with you danny, the reason as all of you know our team has been holding a few open investigations lately is to raise funds for charleville project

Now i know alot of your feelings towards this project, But for me i love helping out when i can not only from a paranormal point of view but a personal love of the place.

So i like to give up any free time i have to help out in any way i can, as alot of you have done yourself over the years.

Our team when doing open investigations charge the public a fee of 60 euro, this fee is paid directly to the castle fund and PRAI do not keep any of the fees charged.

As like every other team if we are called to investigate a home or business we do this at no cost other than to ourselves. As investigating the paranormal trough scientific means is what we like to do, This is our interest, NOT making money.


Traze

i understand Traze the only problem i have with all this people spent their money to fix a stove when they wanted to go back after talking to the guy ,,(i cant remember his name) YOU ARE ALL WELCOME BACK ANYTIME THANKS FOR HELPING,,,what a load of crap,,,no discount when they asked to go back after saying he said this ,,,you have to go trough someone else ,,but was very happy to take the money to fix the stove ,,,i didnt pay myself that night reason being i was invited i wouldnt pay for a place to investigate to me personally if you have to pay its a tourist thing ,,,but my argument is they didnt give as toss about peeps that help them trough the years ,,free investigations to the host team is all fine but when they have a problem then we have no money cry goes out,,,if they dropped their prices they would get more teams using the place it only takes a founder of a team to go there get a run of the place shown were not to go ,,etc,,,i just find it an insult to peeps that have been there i have been invited back from other teams in ireland and abroad and i say no ,,,if they are not willing to meet half way ,,,whats the point,, to me personally its as haunted a hemoroid,sorry my 2 cents If they stop the whole help me thing and start to cop on to peeps who helped build they place and got open investigations going in it then ill support it but pound shillings and pence ruined charliville for me and a lot of other teams ,,here and Abroad

as i say to each their own,,this doesnt only count to Charliville its everywere i hope they get their probs sorted ,,but i think they should drop the price and they will see more turnover on profits ,,people took a drop in their wages in this country but yet venues didnt even respond to say we have now resession prices etc,why dont they start specials for a weekend instead of 60 why not 30 or 40 they will see a lot more peeps attending.

Traze

DANNY22XX wrote: »

i understand Traze the only problem i have with all this people spent their money to fix a stove when they wanted to go back after talking to the guy ,,(i cant remember his name) YOU ARE ALL WELCOME BACK ANYTIME THANKS FOR HELPING,,,what a load of crap,,,no discount when they asked to go back after saying he said this ,,,you have to go trough someone else ,,but was very happy to take the money to fix the stove ,,,i didnt pay myself that night reason being i was invited i wouldnt pay for a place to investigate to me personally if you have to pay its a tourist thing ,,,but my argument is they didnt give as toss about peeps that help them trough the years ,,free investigations to the host team is all fine but when they have a problem then we have no money cry goes out,,,if they dropped their prices they would get more teams using the place it only takes a founder of a team to go there get a run of the place shown were not to go ,,etc,,,i just find it an insult to peeps that have been there i have been invited back from other teams in ireland and abroad and i say no ,,,if they are not willing to meet half way ,,,whats the point,, to me personally its as haunted a hemoroid,sorry my 2 cents If they stop the whole help me thing and start to cop on to peeps who helped build they place and got open investigations going in it then ill support it but pound shillings and pence ruined charliville for me and a lot of other teams ,,here and Abroad

as i say to each their own,,this doesnt only count to Charliville its everywere i hope they get their probs sorted ,,but i think they should drop the price and they will see more turnover on profits ,,people took a drop in their wages in this country but yet venues didnt even respond to say we have now resession prices etc,why dont they start specials for a weekend instead of 60 why not 30 or 40 they will see a lot more peeps attending.

Your right danny, each to there own, What you say about fees, well that is not up to me to ask them to reduce it.
We all have our opinions on where may be haunted or may not be for my pennys worth i do feel there is some activity in charleville not to the extent as to DA from MH said with his running from the dungeon screaming he was hit. But again as you said its all our own opinions as to what may or may not be there.
Alot of this thing about paying to investigate. our team has never paid to investigate any location, the only time a fee is charged if we hold a open investigation, like the way pigs have done and maybe you guys and other teams. charleville like al of the other big locations all over ireland charge a fee be it from 30 to 200 euro, so we choose charleville as i think " my opinion" 60 euro is not alot to ask to spend a night in such a beautiful place

Riamfada

Traze wrote: »

charleville like al of the other big locations all over ireland charge a fee be it from 30 to 200 euro, so we choose charleville as i think " my opinion" 60 euro is not alot to ask to spend a night in such a beautiful place

Not to get too much in the middle of this but i am inclined to agree with Danny. Charleville is a nice place but for 60 euro you get a cold floor compared to the likes of Ross where you get heaters, showers, breakfast. Charleville on my last occasion was also covered in cat poop and the rules are very strict, much more so than any other location I have been to regardless of the state of construction. Beauty is subjective, personally I would love to see the place in state care and to see it fully restored and opened to the public. From what I see its costing more to keep open in its current state then its taking in.

Danny has also pointed out what many people are thinking. Some groups here have given over large quantities of cash and again in donations outside of investigations for equipment when asked by the castle. Cheques have been written, cashed and then fogotten about until another fundraiser is needed.

Traze

Grimes wrote: »

Not to get too much in the middle of this but i am inclined to agree with Danny. Charleville is a nice place but for 60 euro you get a cold floor compared to the likes of Ross where you get heaters, showers, breakfast. Charleville on my last occasion was also covered in cat poop and the rules are very strict, much more so than any other location I have been to regardless of the state of construction. Beauty is subjective, personally I would love to see the place in state care and to see it fully restored and opened to the public. From what I see its costing more to keep open in its current state then its taking in.

Danny has also pointed out what many people are thinking. Some groups here have given over large quantities of cash and again in donations outside of investigations for equipment when asked by the castle. Cheques have been written, cashed and then fogotten about until another fundraiser is needed.

Again as i said before everyone here is entitled to there opinion, but can i just say i am not management here i am just trying to give my view on charleville if you guys feel you have been hard done by in means of fundraising, make that issue clear to the management, tell them off your disappointment, i am sure they will listen if you, but you have to tell them your issues not by just putting it here in a forum,

Graham regarding cat poo yes that was a big issue and like you i was only down that day, i done by best by helping out and trying to clean as much of it as i could, I even brought the issue up with management as it is a health and safety issue and as having a cat myself i know how careful you have to be around cat poo as it is very dangerous.
Be assured every time i am down with my sister, we search hight and low and clean it up and disinfect all the areas,

Comparing charleville to ross is a bit way out there as you all know the conditions of both before you book it so if you do not want to sleep on a cold floor DONT, bring a air mattress we make it very clear to anyone useing it that there are no beds and the castle is under reconstruction.
As you refere to state of repair, that is why this project lift is being done as to take as much traffic out of the castle as possible, so groups will have better rooms to sleep in , with beds and also hot showers. wash facilities and cooking facilities and confrence rooms also.

I will defend charleville as i see first hand away from the paranormal field all the hard work many people like myself put into this project..

Be the bottom line if you do not like the place do not go to it, again as i said above i know some of you feel hard done by with the efforts of fundraising you did and feel you have gotten no thanks for it. But make that issue know to the management and that way at least they will know how you feel .

I again am just giving my opinion here guys, i am not verbally attacking anyone at all, i want to make that clear as you can never tell what way people will take your view as you can only read it and not hear the tone it is wrote in.

6th

Traze can I just say that you've no need to defend yourself at all here. The lads are just discussing the location and its no reflection on you.

Personally I have to agree with the guys above on alot of points. Bare in mind you've people here who've been going down to charleville for 5 years.

Traze is right though, its all well and good complaining here but problems need to be addressed with the management if anything is to be sorted.

Riamfada

Traze,

Just as 6th said my post wasn't in anyway aimed as an attack at you,the PRAOI or the castle. Im just throwing out a few observations on the castle based on a number of experiences had there by myself as an investigator. But Im sure as the paranormal representitive of the castle people's concerns will reach the relevant managers.

G

Traze

Graham,
I never said that i felt i was being attacked by any of you guys, again i was just putting my point across.

But i did feel that if you have a issue with the castle it should of been dealt with in a private manner and not made public the way it was. As in that way if you have issues it gives the management the chance to address any issues any one of us may have.

Anyhow i think we have all said what needs to be said on this subject.
Again that may sound smart but it is not meant to be.

Riamfada

No probs.

Just to clear something up though I did complain to the organisers of the investigation on the night and left my issue with them, I was just there as a paying guest of the open investigation myself so it wasnt for me to converse with the castle management. Bumpz (the organisers) offered me my money back but I wouldnt see them out of pocket.

Its just this is "the" paranormal forum in Ireland and everyone looks at it for advice and communication. It is important for us to share our experience of any location and other groups in order to maintain the community.

G

Logan

One thing I'll admit, is every time we go down Traze and Maura do be out with gloves and bags cleaning up the cat poo, and brushing and mopping lol.. So fair play to them, they 100% do their bit..

As for the issues in the castle, I can see everyones point. It's hard because it is a nice castle, and does have activity, but because of failing parts within the castle the rules do need to get worse, to protect peoples safety, management know a great deal of some of the issues, thats why the lift is going ahead. So when areas get fixed they won't get trampled on straight away and get ruined again, be less controlled traffic within the castle, it would also be a plus for anybody looking to stay over and do investigations, true it takes away from the feel of staying in the castle by staying outside, but will offer people, nice warm beds, showers, all of that. While helping out one of the weeks I had a chat with Michael, and I asked when the castle is restored, then what? But he was saying it would still need upkeep so a great chance they won't close the doors, which was good to hear, because at the end of the day like other castles, this is someones home.

Until it's fixed up it's one of those places for the moment if you don't like it, lump it, sadly..

Traze

Grimes wrote: »

No probs.



Its just this is "the" paranormal forum in Ireland and everyone looks at it for advice and communication. It is important for us to share our experience of any location and other groups in order to maintain the community.

G

That is true what you say, people do come in and get information regarding locations But it does no good to slate any location with a bad brush when people are working hard behind the scenes

DANNY22XX

Traze wrote: »

That is true what you say, people do come in and get information regarding locations But it does no good to slate any location with a bad brush when people are working hard behind the scenes

I agree 110% Traze but the locations are not working behind the scenes its the teams ,,,the location is all about money,,there is a huge difference ,we have had many a call from places in ireland to investigate if we found anything could we run events etc,,we said no still did the location and found nothing,,,they were not to happy and went to another team etc i could write a book at this stage PLACES NOT HAUNTED IN IRELAND,their are member s from charliville on this forum why didnt they post ??,,no one is doubting who work behind the scenes but it would be nice to see a member from the locations say we need help etc.

im not gonna go into a feeling its haunted anyone knows me here knows i dont go with that in any location Traze i know you and the team work hard im saying no more on this ,,what happened to the topic at hand,,,para teams ruining it for the rest of us

Riamfada

Well back on topic. Here is a quote taken from the website of a paranormal group in Ireland. Note the price of the open investigation (down from 140) and remember that the cost per person to investigate is 65 euro and can be got cheaper if you ask the locationand book a full castle well in advance.

Ross Castle County Cavan

---

<name removed> run open paranormal investigations in one of Ireland’s most haunted locations, Ross Castle. This is your night, your investigation…We provide all equipment to help you in your investigation. The technical equipment we use are from, EMF Meters, thermometers, EVP equipment , night vision scopes etc… to the more traditional methods of automatic writing with a (planchett), mirror scryning, dowsing, table tipping, séance, glass divination etc…
This is an over night stay in the Castle, with light refreshments and Bed & Breakfast provided.
The event begins at 8pm with a tour and brief history of Castle, guests then like to sit around the open fire and exchange stories and experiences and get to know each other before they begin their investigation. Guests are divided into groups, a team member will be assigned to each group. After each vigil we all meet back by the open fire, discuss any paranormal activity or experience if found.
We can not guarantee paranormal activity will take place on the night, but to date the spirits in Ross Castle have not let us down, activity seems to happen when you least expect it, usually when people are chatting and enjoying themselves.
One thing we ask our guests to do, and that is to show respect for the spirits, they once lived too.
<name removed> welcomes both believers and non believers, and to make your night an enjoyable and memorable one, a night with a difference…

Cost: €100

15 People x 35euro per head profit = 525 euro profit min for the team.

6th

Grimes wrote: »

15 People x 35euro per head profit = 525 euro profit min for the team.

and but if you take it that theres a team of 5 and the guests are probably covering the teams cost the profit is alot less. I'm not saying its ok cos its really not. Thats a crowd doing it to make money.

kshiel

Hey all,

I am not a member of any group, but have had the lovely pleasure of been involved in investigations run by teams on here such as PIG's and LP, etc which are run properly, so just thanks for the times and experieces had on all of them.

I have attended these investigations before and after the groups were offically formed and I have never minded paying my share of costs for the location on the night and feel its only fair for the cost to be shared evenly among everyone attending, and I would agree that people who drop out at the last min, cause huge problems and expense on the team organising the event, as I know most of these teams take on that extra expense out of their own pocket and dont pass it on to the people attending.

I have a huge interest in the paranormal for many years and I dont belong to a team as I just dont have the time to put into a group but do spend a lot of time experimenting on my own or on projects with individuals which I love and with some interesting results.

I have noticed a lot of groups poping up here and everywhere who's main aim is thrill seeking and money making and fame seeking, which I HATE HATE HATE. Not only are these people giving a bad rep to genuine groups but a lot use scare tactics while investigating, such as there is someone attached to you, or a devil dog is following you etc etc. These people are dangerous to the individuals they have attending and to the whole society of paranormal reserach. I really cannot stress just how much I LOAD people like this.

But I just wanted to ask, I know with the paranormal its such a wide field to investigate, but most talk on here is about the location they have investigated, but what about other methods of investigating such as using the experiements outside a supposed haunted location. How many have set up a place (of their choice) and meet up on a regular basis and used experiements (just for example, table tipping, seance etc etc) and recorded these experiments for examination by the group for their own purpose of education. It would take a lot of dedication but most have that dedication any way and who knows what interesting knowledge would come out of it.

stormkeeper

I haven't been to Charleville properly in a while, so I can't really comment on it although I will say that the condition of the place is mentioned in advance, so you can't exactlly turn around and compare it to the likes of Ross. They are different places after all, with different circumstances. But as for the rest of this thread, between the comments I've read and the talks at the Dublin ParaCon, I've been looking at reorganising the way I conduct "business", when it comes to organising a team. While I can't really say all of what I have planned at the moment (seeing as I don't know everything myself!), those of you who have been on an investigation with me in the past know that I have at least a reasonable amount of credibility organising investigations, given that I've organised a few in the past (and intend to maybe do a couple in the near future - as an individual seeing as it's doubtful that my group will be up and running in an official capacity anytime soon - though nothing is arranged yet) and I also started off with the PRAI, meaning on and off I have about 6 years experience.

Anyway, some of the things I have planned is to take out an insurance policy which covers anyone on an in investigation. However, given the cost of the insurance is likely to be huge, I'm forced to adopt a 2 tier system for insurance; the first one being £5 per investigation which covers the cost of the policy and also the excess that would have to be paid as well. It seems that these days, over here, you must have Publlic Liabity Insurance of 10 million in order to be considered for locations! It's an unavoidable cost, but it does mean that as far as I know, no waivers have to be signed although if someone does decline the insurance cost, I guess I'd have to get them to sign a waiver. I'm not going to touch upon that till later when I have a more established idea of it all. The second one is a yearly fee of £20 quid. This really only becomes cost-effective for those planning on doing more than 4 investigations a year. And even then, while I say £5/£20, there's a chance I may have to increase it again, depending on stuff.

I'm also adopting something that I saw done with the PRAI and having "uniforms" and also an identity card, to help make sure we look credible. I'm currently unsure of the team costs, though the first year would be the most expensive. Insurance policies aren't going to be cheap, so I'm looking at a fair bit of money to cover insurance for the team and members of the public to investigate. Haunted Devon have indicated on their site that:

All reputable paranormal groups will hold Public Liability Insurance. If you are a venue owner PLEASE request sight of the insurance documentation prior to allowing groups into your property. Individual insurance policies may NOT cover group activity especially out of public hours.

It goes on to mention how much their insurances are for, and other related details. Ireland hasn't quite gotten to this stage, but it will. Either way, in order for me to be considered "reputable", it's going to cost me a lot of money. Either way, being based in the UK means as a whole, paranormal groups are a little more scrutinised here, at least when it comes to public investigations. Sad to say that private investigations are a different matter entirely. Either way though, once I get my group properly together, I will have to start charging for insurance on top of what the location charges. I know that at least 1 company, Westminster Indemmnity that covers both the UK and Eire (sic). Anyway, that's my excuse for charging slightly higher than average prices for investigations anyway.

I'll be doing a lot of negotiating later as well, to make sure I get the best price possible while including insurance. I'm also hoping that the PLI will mean that it opens up more locations as well in the future.

I keep on rambling about all this, but to be fair, I'm concerned with being reputable, while not ripping people off and unfortunately, insurance over here is now required, or locations won't touch you. I have been thinking about going back to Manchester and contacting Brannigans to see if they'd consider taking my group on if we had insurance but that's another bridge to cross.

UFOGUY

It's true, it's all about the money these days. Bring back the 80's! I watched that youtube thing from igh, looks a bit like a TV thing ok, but I have to say that i sometimes listened to your man Jim Kelly off the radio - the guy who set it up. He was always talking about paranormal and was on about doing investigations for years privately. What does pigs stand for? thats a cool name.


Peter

Skipper1984

wonder how many book and **** themselves at the thought of having to turn up.

Thats bad form. You will be asked to put a deposit on them in future