Schools in D15

CakeZilla

Zaph wrote: »

Cakezilla, I've removed your other post as it contained some very serious allegations that cannot be substantiated here. Please do not post them again on this site.

Sorry about that, wont happen again

BlazingSaddler

Hi all, I was looking at the school league tables there for 2016 for D15. The results seem to be based on the no. of students who carry onto college/uni. but I think this can be taken with a pinch of salt, students who go to the UK are not included, or are students who go to private colleges amongst others.

Castleknock College is top at 94%, CCC 84%, Setanta 83%, Coolmine 73%, Hartstown 60%, LCC 44%, Blakestown 42%, Riversdale 34%. I'm sure there are plenty of other criteria that leave these figures with a lot to be desired. See link below but you will need a login to the independent to get access. Another school mentioned in this forum a lot but not in D15 is Mount Sackville, this scored 100%. The LCC score is raising eyebrows with me as this is where I was hoping to send my kids there but I also realise the school is still very new.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/school-league-tables/school-league-tables-how-good-is-your-school-34391423.html

beauf

Not every school has the same mix of kids who want to go college. Also some schools might have had different catchment profile. if you do want your kids to do to college then its obviously will be of more interest to you. If not you might be more interested in how success the school is in other areas.

Former Former

BlazingSaddler wrote: »

Hi all, I was looking at the school league tables there for 2016 for D15. The results seem to be based on the no. of students who carry onto college/uni. but I think this can be taken with a pinch of salt, students who go to the UK are not included, or are students who go to private colleges amongst others.

Castleknock College is top at 94%, CCC 84%, Setanta 83%, Coolmine 73%, Hartstown 60%, LCC 44%, Blakestown 42%, Riversdale 34%. I'm sure there are plenty of other criteria that leave these figures with a lot to be desired. See link below but you will need a login to the independent to get access. Another school mentioned in this forum a lot but not in D15 is Mount Sackville, this scored 100%. The LCC score is raising eyebrows with me as this is where I was hoping to send my kids!

Incredibly politically incorrect statements coming up but...

I would expect LCC's percentages to rise over the coming years. They are only in their current premises for a couple of years, prior to that they were based in the old School of Horology near the hospital and I think the only kids going there were the ones who could not get a place elsewhere. And that usually tends to be non-Irish kids who are much less likely to go on to third-level.

Now that they have a permanent premises and a clearly defined catchment area (parts of Carpenterstown and Clonsilla), I would expect the intake to be more reflective of the surrounding area and the percentage moving on to third level to be closer to that of Coolmine.

CCC has a more affluent catchment area than LCC so its figures are always going to be higher.

beauf

I would broadly agree with that. I know a good few very academically bright kids going to LCC and I would expect them to do very well. parents all seem very happy with the place too. Seems to attract the kids from the Educate Together which also seem a bright bunch too. I wasn't a big fan of the iPad policy though. It might suit many kids but not all.

AlanG

I would agree with a lot of what is said about LCC, the statistics are likely to shoot up in the coming years.

Just to note the renowned economist Steve Levitt has documented a lot of evidence that suggests there is no benefit to sending a child to a school with high 3rd level progression rates. From memory the influencing factors are home wealth, parents approach and early education. Bizarrely things like having a lot of books in the house during early childhood increases success rates significantly even though time spent actually reading the books to the child did not show a statistically significant correlation.

beauf

AlanG wrote: »

...suggests there is no benefit to sending a child to a school with high 3rd level progression rates. From memory the influencing factors are home wealth, parents approach and early education. Bizarrely things like having a lot of books in the house during early childhood increases success rates significantly even though time spent actually reading the books to the child did not show a statistically significant correlation.

I don't really know what is meant by success, or benefit in that. We are missing the context in which its written.

AlanG

beauf wrote: »

I don't really know what is meant by success, or benefit in that. We are missing the context in which its written.

Success in the context of this query and 2nd level education in general - Good grades and progress to 3rd level education.

beauf

Good grades and progress to 3rd level education have to be closely related to schools with a high rate of progression to 3rd level . They are mutually inclusive.

Saying there's no benefit doesn't make a lot of sense in that context. So I can only assume there was more to it than that.

Former Former

beauf wrote: »

Good grades and progress to 3rd level education have to be closely related to schools with a high rate of progression to 3rd level . They are mutually inclusive.

Saying there's no benefit doesn't make a lot of sense in that context. So I can only assume there was more to it than that.

The original point was that a kid from a low-income household that doesn't place much value on education and third-level is equally unlikely to progress, regardless of what school he goes to. Likewise, a kid whose parents are well-off and do emphasise the importance of learning is going to progress, even if he ends up in 'bad' school. In other words, the primary determining factor is not the school itself but the home environment.

Personally, I'd say it's a combination of both

beauf

Trading Places suggests otherwise.

I think those outcomes are intrinsically linked. Trying to find a decent sample were people from a disadvantages background all attend a school with high progression rates, or those who are advantaged attended a school with low progression rates would be such a small sample as to be meaningless statistically.

AlanG

beauf wrote: »

Trading Places suggests otherwise.

I think those outcomes are intrinsically linked. Trying to find a decent sample were people from a disadvantages background all attend a school with high progression rates, or those who are advantaged attended a school with low progression rates would be such a small sample as to be meaningless statistically.

If i recall correctly the study was on quite a big sample when a large number of people in the Chicago area had their school districts changed and they therefore moved to a totally different type of school. Over there you have to go to to your district school.

Kate_ru

Any ideas how to get place in CCC if my address is out of catchment area?

BlazingSaddler

Kate_ru wrote: »

Any ideas how to get place in CCC if my address is out of catchment area?

You wouldn't happen to be Church of Ireland would you?
http://www.castleknockcc.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/Andy-Admission-Policy-2015.pdf

Kate_ru

You wouldn't happen to be Church of Ireland would you?

No, we are not relater to Church of Ireland anyhow.

beauf

Doesn't matter if you are COI. That school gets guaranteed places.

Otherwise you need an address in the main catchment. Note that the catchment extended out to Castleknock, many of the estates nearer to it, aren't in the first catchment. Any in the 2nd catchment will probably end up in a lottery.

Get the admissions info with the catchments for the school.

LaLa2004

"Doesn't matter if you are COI. That school gets guaranteed places."

I think you need to be Church of Ireland snd attending Castleknock NS. according to the enrolment policy on the website.
www.castleknockcc.ie

beauf

It reads like that alright.

Probably changed since last I read it.

BlazingSaddler

https://dublingazette.com/news/d15s-first-gaelcholaiste-hailed-fantastic-news/

New Irish Language school to begin life in LCC in September

BlazingSaddler

Edmund Rice College should take some pressure from CCC/LCC with its catchment being Carpenterstown / Castleknock. I was very impressed with the principal at a recent presentation for the school. 1 class only starting this Sept at the Horology Centre, Mill Rd and they are hoping for 116 in 2018. 3 potential sites chosen for the new build, which it is hoped will be open in 2019.

daymobrew

BlazingSaddler wrote: »

Edmund Rice College should take some pressure from CCC/LCC with its catchment being Carpenterstown / Castleknock. I was very impressed with the principal at a recent presentation for the school. 1 class only starting this Sept at the Horology Centre, Mill Rd and they are hoping for 116 in 2018. 3 potential sites chosen for the new build, which it is hoped will be open in 2019.

They are ambitious numbers - LCC took a good bit to get going because people are reluctant to try something new.

2019 is an ambitious date for a permanent building - the Department of Education is terrible about providing permanent accommodation (I say that without taking into account the St Mochta's upgrade debacle). It's not as if secondary students were just dropped into the area - the DoE have had up to 8 years of prior notice about increasing numbers.

beauf

I think the issue is location. If a school is on the very fringe of its catchment. In some of the D.15 schools you're not in the catchment of the nearest school. So if most the local kids aren't going to the nearest school. Most people will want to go with their neighbours and peers to the same school. That and and an unknown results history of a new school. Some schools also required you spend an extra €1000 on an iPad package. As more people go to it, and its results are known then its popularity will improve.

daymobrew

beauf wrote: »

I think the issue is location. If a school is on the very fringe of its catchment. In some of the D.15 schools you're not in the catchment of the nearest school. So if most the local kids aren't going to the nearest school.

You are totally correct. In Carpenterstown those outside of the CCC catchment are annoyed because it is a nearby school. While I empathise, the catchment area starts at Ashtown roundabout and happens to end just west of the school. It's unfortunate but a catchment area, by definition, has to have a border.

BlazingSaddler

I would have a great deal of sympathy for Riverwood being excluded from the CCC catchment but I suppose LCC is closer. When did this happen as we thought of moving to Riverwood a few years ago on the premise that the kids would get into CCC!

beauf

The problem is the catchment moves. Which is fine if you can move, renting. If you've bought a house and the catchment changes you're kinda stuffed. Kids going out of area for school has a knock on for local traffic grid lock, community commitment, and social interactions. Effectively you might be 5th generation local, all family in local school, but can be gazumped by someone who just moves up from cork, is a Jedi and rents a road closer to the school. Once they get a place they move out of the area, and commute the kids in every day. Which is why there is grid lock mainly from traffic passing though, and locals can't get out of their driveway to drop their kids 5 miles away when their nearest school is 5 mins walk.

Most of this is because locals didn't want a school on their doorstep in the middle of Castleknock, and developers stick the schools they are obligated to leave provision for, to fringes of their land,
so its a game of musical chair, that everyone is shifted to the next nearest school. Like Domino's.

Its not one particular school, its all schools. Its why there is so much (non local) traffic at schools times all across D.15

BlazingSaddler

beauf wrote: »

Effectively you might be 5th generation local, all family in local school, but can be gazumped by someone who just moves up from cork, is a Jedi and rents a road closer to the school. Once they get a place they move out of the area, and commute the kids in every day.

Surely there's something that can be done to stop this. Should you not have to prove that you've lived in a property for maybe 2 years before you're given a place in the local school or is this just too simplistic? So I could just go and get a short term rent in the catchment area, get a few bills in my name, apply for the school and wait for the offer then move back out of the catchment, and this child and the siblings thereafter can go to that school? Madness

beauf

They are moving away from residential rules as it causes a lack of diversity in the schools and gives locals a unfair advantage.

beauf

If the schools then have problems with parking, planning, support for events and similar from the local community they can hardly be surprised. It will be interesting to see the long term effects of such policies in the community.

BlazingSaddler

daymobrew wrote: »

They are ambitious numbers - LCC took a good bit to get going because people are reluctant to try something new.

2019 is an ambitious date for a permanent building - the Department of Education is terrible about providing permanent accommodation (I say that without taking into account the St Mochta's upgrade debacle). It's not as if secondary students were just dropped into the area - the DoE have had up to 8 years of prior notice about increasing numbers.

Is there any early feedback on how Edmund Rice is working out?, I believe they were hoping for an intake of between 20 or 30 in this it's first year but numbers were rumoured to be way down on this. I'm still keen on this for next year but if there is no decision on a location before Christmas I'll be drawing a line through it.

daymobrew

BlazingSaddler wrote: »

Is there any early feedback on how Edmund Rice is working out?, I believe they were hoping for an intake of between 20 or 30 in this it's first year but numbers were rumoured to be way down on this.

It would be very disappointing if the numbers are that low as it got the approval to run the school based on much higher expression of interest numbers.