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How to pick a new religion

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  • 17-02-2010 2:58pm
    #1
    wdmfapq4zs83hv
    Closed Accounts Posts: 563 ✭✭✭


    Like I'm sure a hell of a lot of Catholics in this country, I am utterly disillusioned with the Catholic Church, its scandals, cover ups & rape of children. (why on Earth there aren't arrests being made is beyond me)

    I wouldn't consider myself a devout Catholic by any means & like a lot of Irish this is just the faith I was born into. I do believe in God & my faith is very important to me. My dilemma is I can no longer allow myself to be part of this institution.

    My real problem comes when I have children (which will be soon) How do I raise these children? My initial gut feeling is I do not wish for them to be in any way associated with the Catholic Church, the thoughts of any child of mine being left alone with a priest (during confession etc) sickens me. However I do wish to pass on my own faith to them as I feel my faith is a great comfort in times of need. Of course they are free to choose their own faith when ready. This is how I was brought up.

    So do I try choose another religion? One that is not corrupt & headed by this very sinister Pope (imho, especially given his recent remarks re child abuse in Ireland)Where do I start? I know I could just tell my children about my faith as I believe it but I dont want my child to miss out on anything eg 1st holy communion etc.

    How are prople feeling about this? I have to say its really playing on my mind, religion was such a huge part of growing up for me, in school etc. Should I really exlude my child from this?


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    #2
    GLaDOS
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,212 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    Although the topic probably innapropriate for this section, I say why do you need a church? If you really feel like you have faith in God, do it on your own, study the bible and make your own conclusions. You don't need somebody else to tell you how to live your life.

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



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    #3
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Dunno. Try out the CofI maybe.
    tbh, you'd be better off asking the Christians


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    #4
    Saint Ruth
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭Saint Ruth


    Why are you asking atheists?;) What do you think they're going to say here? :D

    If you're wondering about this, then pop down to your local Vicar and ask him about the Church Of Ireland...or the Mosque if that takes your fancy...


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    #5
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Daleyza Purple Muffler wrote: »
    Like I'm sure a hell of a lot of Catholics in this country, I am utterly disillusioned with the Catholic Church, its scandals, cover ups & rape of children. (why on Earth there aren't arrests being made is beyond me)

    I wouldn't consider myself a devout Catholic by any means & like a lot of Irish this is just the faith I was born into. I do believe in God & my faith is very important to me. My dilemma is I can no longer allow myself to be part of this institution.

    My real problem comes when I have children (which will be soon) How do I raise these children? My initial gut feeling is I do not wish for them to be in any way associated with the Catholic Church, the thoughts of any child of mine being left alone with a priest (during confession etc) sickens me. However I do wish to pass on my own faith to them as I feel my faith is a great comfort in times of need. Of course they are free to choose their own faith when ready. This is how I was brought up.

    So do I try choose another religion? One that is not corrupt & headed by this very sinister Pope (imho, especially given his recent remarks re child abuse in Ireland)Where do I start? I know I could just tell my children about my faith as I believe it but I dont want my child to miss out on anything eg 1st holy communion etc.

    How are prople feeling about this? I have to say its really playing on my mind, religion was such a huge part of growing up for me, in school etc. Should I really exlude my child from this?

    Yes, keep them away from the hypocrisy, the "my clothes are better than your clothes" ceremonies known as communion and confirmation, teach them that anything that befrocked Nazi in Rome says is to be ignored , and to question everything instead of blindly following religion, which has no place in modern society


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    #6
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Saint Ruth wrote: »
    Why are you asking atheists?;) What do you think they're going to say here? :D

    If you're wondering about this, then pop down to your local Vicar and ask him about the Church Of Ireland...or the Mosque if that takes your fancy...


    We might suggest the CofI. Or we might direct the OP to the Christianity forum.

    (But we wouldn't tell someone who didn't want their child to miss out on Holy Communion to ask at a mosque:rolleyes:)


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    #7
    wdmfapq4zs83hv
    Closed Accounts Posts: 563 ✭✭✭wdmfapq4zs83hv


    Sorry , probably the wrong forum :o

    Just read the post about the "idiot pope" on here & posted without properly looking at the name of the forum. Thanks for the replies :)


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    #8
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Daleyza Purple Muffler wrote: »
    I do believe in God & my faith is very important to me.
    In A&A we don't believe in God and faith is not important - so moving to Christianity for this reason! :)

    There are plenty of different flavour believers in this forum to guide you. My own thoughts would be that you don't need to be part of an organisation at all. Believe in God and be a good person.


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    #9
    Beruthiel
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    Daleyza Purple Muffler wrote: »
    My real problem comes when I have children (which will be soon) How do I raise these children?

    As long as you raise them with good morals, ethics and manners, your job is done.
    You could also teach them about different religions if you want and then leave it to them to decide if they wish to be part of one or not.

    I would also have thought, you don't have to be part of any particular church or religion to believe in a god.
    I dont want my child to miss out on anything eg 1st holy communion

    I'd hardly call it missing out.
    religion was such a huge part of growing up for me

    It was a big part of mine too.
    A unwanted part.
    Hated everything to do with it.
    My parents forced it on me and I'm not one bit grateful to them for that big pile of poo.
    Remember, you don't have children to force your beliefs on them.
    Let them decide for themselves.

    /edit
    Mods
    The above comments were posted in the understanding this was in the A&A forum.


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    #10
    doctoremma
    Registered Users Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭doctoremma


    My real problem comes when I have children (which will be soon) How do I raise these children? My initial gut feeling is I do not wish for them to be in any way associated with the Catholic Church, the thoughts of any child of mine being left alone with a priest (during confession etc) sickens me. However I do wish to pass on my own faith to them as I feel my faith is a great comfort in times of need. Of course they are free to choose their own faith when ready. This is how I was brought up.

    My friend has three small children (2-6 years) and had each baptised into the Catholic church, despite neither her nor her partner being of a specific faith (just a vague ill-defined feeling that there's something there). Her rationale was that she wanted them to be properly educated in their (potential) faith, rather than being ignorant of biblical texts etc. She was also considering future schooling options.

    She approached me at Christmas asking how she might go about retracting these baptisms, saying that she felt sick at the idea that she leapt so quickly at getting her kids baptised into such a corrupt institute. I (gladly!!) gave her a couple of ideas. As the discussion went on, you could see the realisation dawning in her face that she didn't necessarily need to subscribe to a particular church to have faith. When me and other atheist friends, in the course of the discussion, insisted on separating the issue of belief from the neccessity of religion (the first does not need the second), she said that she had never really imagined that one could believe in some kind of god without needing to label it as a particular religion.

    So, long story short, I agree with Sciencenerd above. You don't need a label in order to have faith. If you are still considering things like Holy Communion etc, you are (like it or not) firmly supporting the Catholic church still.


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    #11
    Carra23
    Registered Users Posts: 476 ✭✭Carra23


    Daleyza Purple Muffler wrote: »
    Like I'm sure a hell of a lot of Catholics in this country, I am utterly disillusioned with the Catholic Church, its scandals, cover ups & rape of children. (why on Earth there aren't arrests being made is beyond me)

    I wouldn't consider myself a devout Catholic by any means & like a lot of Irish this is just the faith I was born into. I do believe in God & my faith is very important to me. My dilemma is I can no longer allow myself to be part of this institution.

    My real problem comes when I have children (which will be soon) How do I raise these children? My initial gut feeling is I do not wish for them to be in any way associated with the Catholic Church, the thoughts of any child of mine being left alone with a priest (during confession etc) sickens me. However I do wish to pass on my own faith to them as I feel my faith is a great comfort in times of need. Of course they are free to choose their own faith when ready. This is how I was brought up.

    So do I try choose another religion? One that is not corrupt & headed by this very sinister Pope (imho, especially given his recent remarks re child abuse in Ireland)Where do I start? I know I could just tell my children about my faith as I believe it but I dont want my child to miss out on anything eg 1st holy communion etc.

    How are prople feeling about this? I have to say its really playing on my mind, religion was such a huge part of growing up for me, in school etc. Should I really exlude my child from this?

    I imagine you are far from alone with your dilemma , I too have a similar problem. Myself and my girlfriend had our first child two years ago and he was baptised against my wishes thats not to say behind my back by the way but it wasn't what I wanted but had a hard time trying to convince my girlfriend. I love her dearly but she is a bit if a sheep and doesn't really form opinions of her own with regard to such issues. I put forward a good arguement as to why I did not want him baptised or to be part of the Catholic religion and when I asked her why she wanted to do it she simply said ' Because everyone does it ' I didn't know where to go from there so I let it slide but will send him to non denominational school to get around the communion /confirmation.

    To get to your question , why do you feel the need to find a new religion ? You don't need a formal organisation or church to bring you close to God. I beleive in a god/creator and I don't think you need a middle man to become close or have faith, you just have to believe. Live a good life and only do to others as you would expect them to do to you etc. When it comes to a time when I have to speak to my kids about such issues I will be completely honest with them and tell them whatever I know about each religion , tell them no one religion is right/wrong or even real and tell them that they don't have to be part of any religion at all but that the choice is theirs .


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    #12
    Saint Ruth
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭Saint Ruth


    Carra23 wrote: »
    I love her dearly but she is a bit if a sheep and doesn't really form opinions of her own with regard to such issues.
    That reads a bit funny... ;)

    Surely standing up to you proves she isn't a sheep, and won't be forced to do something she doesn't want to do? ;)


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    #13
    Saint Ruth
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭Saint Ruth


    Actually, if you just dislike the Church as an institution but believe in Jesus and Catholic teaching etc ;), then an Orthodox Church would be the one.

    They have virtually the same beliefs as the Catholic Church without being the Catholic Church.


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    #14
    wdmfapq4zs83hv
    Closed Accounts Posts: 563 ✭✭✭wdmfapq4zs83hv


    Saint Ruth wrote: »
    Actually, if you just dislike the Church as an institution but believe in Jesus and Catholic teaching etc ;), then an Orthodox Church would be the one.

    They have virtually the same beliefs as the Catholic Church without being the Catholic Church.

    Thanks so much for this info, I think this is what I'm looking for. I do believe in in the general teachings of the Catholic church (although not all) Its just the institution I dont believe in. Thanks for all replies, very interesting ;)


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    #15
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    Most of the other Christian churches put emphasis on personal relationship with God and Jesus, rather than through an institution.

    It would seem to me that you simply need to look at the Protestant churches and talk to Protestants and see which one closely matches what you believe.

    Christians have after all been doing that for 600 years.


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    #16
    Glenster
    Registered Users Posts: 2,626 ✭✭✭Glenster


    You dont have to be a member of any church.

    If you feel the urge to go to a church or a mosque then go. If you feel the urge to read the bible or the qoran or the tibetan book of the dead do.

    If the story of Ali or Jesus or Joesph Smith appeals to you tell that story to your kid.

    There's no need to draw distinctions between yourself and others, if someone demands to know what you believe so they can argue with you about it there's no law thats says you have to respond to them, there's no form that you have to fill in the religion section on.

    Being part of a church is about becoming a member of a community if you feel uncomfortable about this try being a member of the community of people.


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    #17
    Saint Ruth
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭Saint Ruth


    Glenster wrote: »
    You dont have to be a member of any church.

    If you feel the urge to go to a church or a mosque then go. If you feel the urge to read the bible or the qoran or the tibetan book of the dead do.
    That assumes there is no God, or that God is your own creation, or that God doesn't really care one way or the other what you believe about him.

    And maybe God does exist and he's not bothered.

    But if God is Allah, then he most definitely wants you to go to a mosque.
    And if God is not Allah, then why bother going to a mosque?


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    #18
    Glenster
    Registered Users Posts: 2,626 ✭✭✭Glenster


    Saint Ruth wrote: »
    That assumes there is no God, or that God is your own creation, or that God doesn't really care one way or the other what you believe about him.

    And maybe God does exist and he's not bothered.

    But if God is Allah, then he most definitely wants you to go to a mosque.
    And if God is not Allah, then why bother going to a mosque?

    I never got the expression 'God is your own creation'

    Obviously I dont know what God wants, I barely know what the girlfriend wants.

    Of course God is Allah, or Vishnu, or whatever else you want to call him. It's arrogant to draw a picture of a bloke in a beard and point to a bible and say this is what God is and thinks and all God is and thinks.

    And in answer to your question, even if God didn't exist I'd go to a mosque because they are beautiful and in them you can learn how to love your fellow man.


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    #19
    Xluna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,329 ✭✭✭Xluna


    Give Buddhism a look.Best ethics I've seen in a religion by light years,pretty tolerant too. Also, I can't think of a single war fought over Buddhism.


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    #20
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    Daleyza Purple Muffler wrote: »
    Like I'm sure a hell of a lot of Catholics in this country, I am utterly disillusioned with the Catholic Church, its scandals, cover ups & rape of children. (why on Earth there aren't arrests being made is beyond me)
    Hello Swagger, as I Catholic, I'm apalled too at the scandals. It makes me sick when I think of what went on.
    Daleyza Purple Muffler wrote: »
    I wouldn't consider myself a devout Catholic by any means & like a lot of Irish this is just the faith I was born into. I do believe in God & my faith is very important to me. My dilemma is I can no longer allow myself to be part of this institution.
    Do you believe that Christ founded a Church with bishops and priests or do you believe that the apostles left us with a bible and that we only need adhere to what the bible teaches?
    Daleyza Purple Muffler wrote: »
    My real problem comes when I have children (which will be soon) How do I raise these children? My initial gut feeling is I do not wish for them to be in any way associated with the Catholic Church, the thoughts of any child of mine being left alone with a priest (during confession etc) sickens me.
    I don't want to diminish or condone the heinous acts of those priests who abused children, but we can't tar all priests with the same brush. A small percentage of priests are/were abusers, not the entire clergy.
    Daleyza Purple Muffler wrote: »
    So do I try choose another religion?
    I would ask you whether you are you more concerned about the truth or your own comfort in your chosen religion. At times I've felt like leaving the Church but I firmly believe that the Catholic Church is the same Church founded by Christ. And I well aware of how sinful its members can be!
    Daleyza Purple Muffler wrote: »
    One that is not corrupt & headed by this very sinister Pope (imho, especially given his recent remarks re child abuse in Ireland)Where do I start?
    How is the Pope sinister?? :confused:

    God bless,
    Noel.


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    #21
    Carra23
    Registered Users Posts: 476 ✭✭Carra23


    Saint Ruth wrote: »
    That reads a bit funny... ;)

    Surely standing up to you proves she isn't a sheep, and won't be forced to do something she doesn't want to do? ;)

    By deciding to have our son christened, my girlfriend did not prove that she is not a sheep by standing up to me because it was not a me vs her issue there was no right or wrong it was about putting up a valid arguement or reasons to support your stance which she was not able to do and to address the point you make of her 'not being forced to do something she doesn't want to do' , has she not just forced my son to enter into the catholic faith and religion ? something that he most certainly didn't want to do because he was 6 months old at the time so did not have the faintest idea of what religion is never mind want to join one :confused:


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    #22
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Xluna wrote: »
    Give Buddhism a look.Best ethics I've seen in a religion by light years,pretty tolerant too. Also, I can't think of a single war fought over Buddhism.

    If we're just going to associate religion with conflicts, then the Sri Lankan civil war springs to mind.. Buddhists and Hindus, also Buddhist teachers were complicit in promoting Japanese aggression in the 1930's and 40's.


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    #23
    Glenster
    Registered Users Posts: 2,626 ✭✭✭Glenster


    prinz wrote: »
    If we're just going to associate religion with conflicts

    Can we do that?

    The Crusades, there, I did it, thread derailed.

    W00T!


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    #24
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Glenster wrote: »
    Can we do that?
    The Crusades, there, I did it, thread derailed.
    W00T!

    Well done you.


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    #25
    Xluna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,329 ✭✭✭Xluna


    prinz wrote: »
    If we're just going to associate religion with conflicts, then the Sri Lankan civil war springs to mind.. Buddhists and Hindus, also Buddhist teachers were complicit in promoting Japanese aggression in the 1930's and 40's.

    I'll admit I'm not familiar with the Sri Lankan civil war however you're wrong on the Japan WWII aggression. It was actually a new form of Shintoism,state Shintoism, which was used by the war cabinet to encourage Japanese aggression during that period. Shintoism claims the Japanese Emperor to be a descendant of the Shinto Goddess Ameterasu,and the logic followed that the Japanese were racially superior and the word of the Emperor was a divine command( kind of like the word of the Popes being a divine command to go to war during the crusades.)

    That's the reason why the Americans insisted that part of the terms of surrender by the Japanese was a renounciation of Divinity by Emperor Hirohito.


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    #26
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Xluna wrote: »
    I'll admit I'm not familiar with the Sri Lankan civil war however you're wrong on the Japan WWII aggression...

    http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/11/books/meditating-on-war-and-guilt-zen-says-it-s-sorry.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haku%27un_Yasutani

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_at_War

    Anywho, offtopic.


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    #27
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    Swagger, are you looking to remain a Christian or are you thinking of exploring other religions? Anyway, you might be interested in a couple of recent posts that were more or less along the same lines.

    Not a catholic, but what am I?
    I think I need religion


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    #28
    homer911
    Registered Users Posts: 5,113 ✭✭✭homer911


    Daleyza Purple Muffler wrote: »
    Like I'm sure a hell of a lot of Catholics in this country, I am utterly disillusioned with the Catholic Church, its scandals, cover ups & rape of children. (why on Earth there aren't arrests being made is beyond me)

    I wouldn't consider myself a devout Catholic by any means & like a lot of Irish this is just the faith I was born into. I do believe in God & my faith is very important to me. My dilemma is I can no longer allow myself to be part of this institution.

    My real problem comes when I have children (which will be soon) How do I raise these children? My initial gut feeling is I do not wish for them to be in any way associated with the Catholic Church, the thoughts of any child of mine being left alone with a priest (during confession etc) sickens me. However I do wish to pass on my own faith to them as I feel my faith is a great comfort in times of need. Of course they are free to choose their own faith when ready. This is how I was brought up.

    So do I try choose another religion? One that is not corrupt & headed by this very sinister Pope (imho, especially given his recent remarks re child abuse in Ireland)Where do I start? I know I could just tell my children about my faith as I believe it but I dont want my child to miss out on anything eg 1st holy communion etc.

    How are prople feeling about this? I have to say its really playing on my mind, religion was such a huge part of growing up for me, in school etc. Should I really exlude my child from this?

    In an effort to keep the thread on track, firstly I'm a member of a Presbyterian Church, so you may find my comments biased. 1st Holy communion (at age 6 or whatever) is not a Protestant tradition, so if you want your child to experience that, then perhaps an orthodox church is the place to go.

    Christianity is a religion/faith, so I presume you dont want to become a Budhist or Muslim. Catholosicism/Protestantism are different Christian traditions - both break out into denominations, although Roman Catholicism and Anglicanism are two of the largest on each side. Within Protestantism, the main denominations in Ireland are Anglicans, Methodists and Presbyterians (there are many more). Try visiting some of the churches in your area, talk to the priest/minister and find out what they stand for - then decide if the grass is greener...


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    #29
    Xluna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,329 ✭✭✭Xluna


    prinz wrote: »
    http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/11/books/meditating-on-war-and-guilt-zen-says-it-s-sorry.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haku%27un_Yasutani

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_at_War

    Anywho, offtopic.

    I see what you're getting at but to be fair Zen is to mainstream Buddhism as Mormonism is to mainstream Christianity. Zen was also strongly linked to the ethics of Bushido,chivilary,which like Shintoism underwent a sinister racial/nationalist make over during the WWII period.


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    #30
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    Xluna wrote: »
    I see what you're getting at but to be fair Zen is to mainstream Buddhism as Mormonism is to mainstream Christianity. Zen was also strongly linked to the ethics of Bushido,chivilary,which like Shintoism underwent a sinister racial/nationalist make over during the WWII period.

    Very interesting guys, but perhaps better suited to the Buddhism forum.


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    #31
    Slav
    Registered Users Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Slav


    Daleyza Purple Muffler wrote: »
    Saint Ruth wrote: »
    Actually, if you just dislike the Church as an institution but believe in Jesus and Catholic teaching etc , then an Orthodox Church would be the one.

    They have virtually the same beliefs as the Catholic Church without being the Catholic Church.

    Thanks so much for this info, I think this is what I'm looking for. I do believe in in the general teachings of the Catholic church (although not all) Its just the institution I dont believe in. Thanks for all replies, very interesting ;)

    Orthodox? No, that's not an option. ;)
    There would be no First Holy Communion and no Confirmation for the kids there. We Orthodox don't restrain infants from the Eucharist so the first Communion is usually on the day they are baptised or very soon after that. Same, Anointment did not evolve into Confirmation as it did in the Roman Church and therefore is still done some 15 minutes after Baptism. :)
    Also it would not be right to think of Orthodox Church as of "RCC without Pope"; they are very different in fact.

    On a serious note, may I suggest that you first try to answer yourself 3 questions. Why do Christians need Church in general, why do you need Church and finally what is the Christian Church. Things will be a lot easier after that I guess. Then you might even remain a happy Roman Catholic without changing your attitude towards the scandals and the RCC hierarchy.


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