ESB - €11,000 as final bill?!

jor el

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

There was definitely a meter reading taken in 2006 / 2007 as I was sharing with friends.

Then you need to find out what that reading was, and when it was taken.

foggy_lad

Grumpypants wrote: »

I wonder if the estate agent gave the full number ie included the red number at the end as well ? I dont think you are meant to include that one (that may be a gas meter)
And are the bills you recieved for every month or every 2 months ?

If the 31,120 the estate agent rang in was actually 3,120. Then the ESB have been working off the wrong number as a starting point.

That would mean you used around 20,000 units of esb over the 4 years (23215-3112)
Unit ESB cost would be about 16 cent : 20,000 units @ .16 = 3200euro or 800 per year. If your bills are every 2 months then thats about 133ish euro per bill average. Which is around the amount you have paid all along (120). (its out a little but an awfull lot of estimating has gone on here on the part of the ESB).

To round it all up the ESB estimated your usage at around 20,000 for 4 years which you paid for. Its all too convient for the numbers to be about 20,000 out when you look at them. 31,000+20,000 = 51,000 (around the reading the ESB estimate) 3,112+20,000= 23,112(around the reading you Estimate). 20,000 The amount of units you paid for.

How you prove it is a different question? other than taking it further and showing that to use the amount of unit they are suggesting to make the meter go full circle (around 90,000 units) would power a small street for a number of years. Any reasonable person could see that that isnt the case.

also take into account they are now looking for €11,000 even though the op has been paying roughly €120 every two months and it seems certain the original reading from the estate agent should have been 3,112 and not 31,120

take an average bill of €300 x 6 times a year and over 4 years the charge would be €7,200 now take out the €120 x 6 x 4 the op has been paying and it is a far cry from the €11,000 the esb are looking for!

{^Syntax^}

There's no red number at the end. There are only spaces for 5 digits. The bills I received were every two months yes.

I've heard of cases of this happening before with other companies (Mobile carrier sending a bill for €300,000 to one guy using a 3G Modem while roaming who was unaware of the roaming costs). I never thought it'd happen to me.

I think it's dangerous allowing bills to build up to such an extent for individuals. I can understand with companies as they should be meticuloulsy aware of their incomings/outgoings but for an average joe trying to get on with things this is lethal.

The ESB didn't phone me or come to my house. They did say on their bills that they 'needed a meter reading' and that the last number of 'bills have been estimated' but I never imagined it'd total €11,000

keithclancy

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

There's no red number at the end. There are only spaces for 5 digits. The bills I received were every two months yes.

I've heard of cases of this happening before with other companies (Mobile carrier sending a bill for €300,000 to one guy using a 3G Modem while roaming who was unaware of the roaming costs). I never thought it'd happen to me.

I think it's dangerous allowing bills to build up to such an extent for individuals. I can understand with companies as they should be meticuloulsy aware of their incomings/outgoings but for an average joe trying to get on with things this is lethal.

The ESB didn't phone me or come to my house. They did say on their bills that they 'needed a meter reading' and that the last number of 'bills have been estimated' but I never imagined it'd total €11,000

Not just an Irish thing, i moved from the West to the East of holland and got a bill for 1720 euros .. ffs ..

Was caused by a mixup with the meters so the energy company were undercharging, i.e. the meters were labeled the wrong way around.

{^Syntax^}

It would certainly make a lot more sense that the meter reading was 3120. It has to be a mistake on the Estate Agents part... I'm still waitng on them to dig out the file.

ttm

Isn't there any history that ESB have of this meter being read previous to the Estate Agents phoning in the bill? If there was that might throw some doubt on the start reading, but arn't ESB going to have a problem proving you used that amount of electric if they don't have records of a single meter reading done by a meter reader, so far all they have is one recent reading and hearsay?

{^Syntax^}

No, they are claiming they have the original meter reading taken by the Estate Agent. It's 31290C (Sorry the original reading I posted earlier was just for purposes of this conversation and not giving personal information on forums!)

So perhaps it was 03129 when the Estate Agent called it in!?

I'm looking at what I believe to be my first bill here, from 2005, with the billing period being from Jan 25th to Mar 16th 2005.

For the meter reading it says something like (I can't quite see it as I've perferated the bill) Present: 32323E Previous: 31290C

C indicating it was a 'Client' reading.

RangeR

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

No, they are claiming they have the original meter reading taken by the Estate Agent. It's 31290C (Sorry the original reading I posted earlier was just for purposes of this conversation and not giving personal information on forums!)

So perhaps it was 03129 when the Estate Agent called it in!?

I'm looking at what I believe to be my first bill here, from 2005, with the billing period being from Jan 25th to Mar 16th 2005.

For the meter reading it says something like (I can't quite see it as I've perferated the bill) Present: 32323E Previous: 31290C

C indicating it was a 'Client' reading.

So can they confirm what the PREVIOUS one to the estate agents one was? It would give an indication as to the estate agent giving the wrong details.

bigjohnny80

Defo contest this... I got a bill of 2500 one month after they read the meter themselves. Turned out that it was feeding into the wrong apartment.

At the back of the bill is the steps you need to take. I think firstly you escalate it to an internal dept, then next port of call is the regulator.

ttm

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

No, they are claiming they have the original meter reading taken by the Estate Agent. It's 31290C (Sorry the original reading I posted earlier was just for purposes of this conversation and not giving personal information on forums!)

So perhaps it was 03129 when the Estate Agent called it in!?

I'm looking at what I believe to be my first bill here, from 2005, with the billing period being from Jan 25th to Mar 16th 2005.

For the meter reading it says something like (I can't quite see it as I've perferated the bill) Present: 32323E Previous: 31290C

C indicating it was a 'Client' reading.

But that is my point ESB don't have a start figure that is set in stone that can be used to prove your usage. A customer reading is just that a customer reading, how can ESB prove that it was correct unless the meter reader takes a reading sometime afterwards which provides a bill that is of the correct order for the size of the property and expected usage. Once they have their own reading it in effect validates the customer reading but I can't see that that has ever been done.

All ESB have is Customer readings and Estimates since you have been there so I would say to them that as they have no positive proof of your usage that its up to them to negotiate how much you should pay. Its easy enough to estimate your usage given the number of rooms you have how the house was heated and the equipment you used and thats the figure you should be aiming at not 11k.

If you feel the 11k is correct then you need to find out who was using it and why it was being added to your bill.

The property might still be empty if so ask if you can have the electric switched off for a few days just to see if anyone complains.

Not sure I'm making myself clear

ttm

RangeR wrote: »

So can they confirm what the PREVIOUS one to the estate agents one was? It would give an indication as to the estate agent giving the wrong details.

EXACTY! Somewhere along the line ESB need to provide a PREVIOUS reading that is NOT and Estimate or a Customer reading. It doesn't really matter when it was, before or after the Estate Agents reading, but without it there can be no validation of the Estate Agents Customer reading. The nearer an Actual reading is to the Estate Agents the better but even a year before would give some idea if the Estate Agents reading is valid or a mistake.

{^Syntax^}

Some good advice. Thanks!

I believe I shouldn't have to pay anything near that figure to be honest. I was never late with a bill over the 5 years. It was a 3 bed house that was oil heated. If there's a reasonable closing bill similar to the €120 - €160 I had been paying every two months then that'd be fair enough but €11,000 is ridiculous.

antoinolachtnai

did you phone in the reading you think you made a few years ago to the ESB? Any idea what phone you made the call on?

If you did, uou may be able to retrieve something that would prove you made that call. The telephone company should have information going back three years. They will not volunteer it easily, but they should have it.

If you can show that you made a call to give a meter reading, it will give you some sort of basis to work on. My suspicion would be that the reading you phoned in appeared to be so out of whack with the last reading they had, that the ESB simply disregarded it.

It would be interesting to find out the history of the reported meter readings for the previous tenant. It does sound a bit like somebody somewhere got away without paying the full whack.

ttm

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

did you phone in the reading you think you made a few years ago to the ESB? Any idea what phone you made the call on?

If you did, uou may be able to retrieve something that would prove you made that call. The telephone company should have information going back three years. They will not volunteer it easily, but they should have it.

If you can show that you made a call to give a meter reading, it will give you some sort of basis to work on. My suspicion would be that the reading you phoned in appeared to be so out of whack with the last reading they had, that the ESB simply disregarded it.

It would be interesting to find out the history of the reported meter readings for the previous tenant. It does sound a bit like somebody somewhere got away without paying the full whack.

Not sure what system ESB used back then but we have been phoning in Customer readings for years and they regularly get ignored and need calling in a second time. For what its worth we've been told that the ESB only have to read the meter twice a year which is what they seem to do in our rural area. But if they miss us which would be very rare they do leave a card saying they called so I wonder if the OP ever got a card saying the ESB Meter Reader had called?

Biffo The Bare

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

If it's over a long term period it might not be too bad.. It's just a real shock considering I've just bought a house on my own. My partner is out of work so I'm trying to do everything myself... Mortgage, bills, food etc.

Now this..

One suggestion. Don't take this the wrong way, but get your s**t in order and things like this aint going to happen.

kodak

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

Some good advice. Thanks!

I believe I shouldn't have to pay anything near that figure to be honest. I was never late with a bill over the 5 years. It was a 3 bed house that was oil heated. If there's a reasonable closing bill similar to the €120 - €160 I had been paying every two months then that'd be fair enough but €11,000 is ridiculous.

The first thing you should do is get them to send out a print of all the meter readings.
This will show every estimated and consumer and esb registered meter reading. Ask for the full five years. They will post it out to you.

I did this as a friend had a night meter, but the timer broke and was stuck on 4pm, so the high rate was all the time.. in the end they got a huge credit, too much by my clac's..

I'll try dig out a direct number that i got that you could ring..

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

This thing will just go all around the houses here, to no conclusion. Contact ESB. Get the readings and discuss it with them. They are the ones who can sort this - not anybody here. Thye are actually very good at dealing with stuff like this;)

Grumpypants

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

One suggestion. Don't take this the wrong way, but get your s**t in order and things like this aint going to happen.

One suggestion. Don't take this the wrong way, but at least read the thread before you make suggestions like that. The OP has clearly had his **** together as he got and paid his ESB bill on time for 5 years this problem only arose when he closed the account and then found out a meter reading that was given by a estate agent 5 years ago which he has no control or knowledge of was incorrect.

{^Syntax^}

Thanks Grumpy pants. I know I should've been calling in meter readings but I was actually working 2 jobs at the time trying to save enough for college and eventually a deposit for my own home.

It's hard to manage everything and have it all under control.

I don't believe I ever phoned in a reading.. I'm sure it was the Estate Agent. I would've had a 'pay as you go phone' at the time and no land line as I'd just moved in. Very tricky to trace that type of stuff.

The Estate Agent are trying to dig out the file but apparently it's in the 'Directors' house who's on holiday.

Just to let you know the ESB are being very helpful in trying to resolve this. I just think it'd should've been investigated more thoroughly before the bill was sent.

I've never felt the blood drain out of my body so fast!

Cabaal

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

Just to let you know the ESB are being very helpful in trying to resolve this. I just think it'd should've been investigated more thoroughly before the bill was sent.

The dispatch out the bill is pretty much automated so they wouldn't have investigated anything before hand

{^Syntax^}

It wasn't automated. I was told there would be a full investigation because of the discrepancy and before the account could be closed. It is happening now however.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

It wasn't automated. I was told there would be a full investigation because of the discrepancy and before the account could be closed. It is happening now however.

No. There will be full discussion and investigation once you raise a query, but the bill issue is certainly an automated process.
I have no doubt this will be resolved quite easily.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

One suggestion. Don't take this the wrong way, but get your s**t in order and things like this aint going to happen.

Please read the thread the next time before being all sanctimonious. And try to be helpful in your posts.

cowhands

Probably a bit off topic but I use to work as a customer care agent for a major telephone company here in Irland.
a lady rang in one time very upset about a telephone bill of €50,000. Turns out a telephone pole got knocked down by a car and landed in her garden and they company billed her for the pole :eek:

Needless to say we were both shocked and appauled. They wrote it off in the end in fairness

Rulmeq

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

Some good advice. Thanks!

I believe I shouldn't have to pay anything near that figure to be honest. I was never late with a bill over the 5 years. It was a 3 bed house that was oil heated. If there's a reasonable closing bill similar to the €120 - €160 I had been paying every two months then that'd be fair enough but €11,000 is ridiculous.

I'm just doing the maths in my head quickly here, and it's not as ridiculous as you make out.

6 years is 72 months (assuming you were there for the full 6 years), 11,000/72 = €152
Add in the 60 you were paying and the bill is €212p/m or €424 per bill.

Now if the house is as old as you say the meter was, it's probably lacking proper insulation, and probably had an immersion heater without a timer (I know lots of leaping to conclusions here).

So, just be aware that you may have to negotiate some sort of an installment payment here (and perhaps be able to negotiate a discount on the price), because it's quite possible that it was used.

Having said all the above, I would have presumed that the burden of proof would be on the ESB, and I would say that they carried on their business in a reckless manner if they didn't even contact you over the course of 6 years, to get a proper reading.

testicle

If the previous reading was incorrect (i.e. the one the Landlord gave at the start of the lease) then the previous tenant would have been hit with the 11k.

Check and ensure the MPRN off your Bill and the one on the Meter are the one and the same.

{^Syntax^}

When I was trying to close the ESB didn't ask me for the MPRN number.. I was asked for a 4 Digit number which I supplied.

I did however take note of another 8 digit number that doesn't match anything on my bill?

The MPRN number on my bill isn't on the meter.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

cowhands wrote: »

...a telephone bill of €50,000. Turns out a telephone pole got knocked down by a car and landed in her garden and they company billed her for the pole ...:

€50k for a replacement pole! I've billed many a third party claim for damage to poles and never anything near that amount. €2000 max if it's the largest of the pole types.:rolleyes:

cowhands

Amelia Pitiful Cereal wrote: »

€50k for a replacement pole! I've billed many a third party claim for damage to poles and never anything near that amount. €2000 max if it's the largest of the pole types.:rolleyes:

Well I saw the bill myself and it was indeed 50k

{^Syntax^}

11K is horrendously bad but 50k would be the end of me I think.