The woman in the mirror

lucky-colm

i think some pictures might be of help here say one of you when you were in your early twenties and one of you now

dudara

lucky-colm, consider yourself very lucky not to receive an infraction or worse.

There will be no posting of pictures on PI.

dudara

Walls

This is an interesting question, OP, and you've received some 'interesting' answers. The identity you have for yourself is one that you now see fading, and it is leading you to question yourself and what value you have. For you, it is your looks, but for others it might be their intellectual skills, their athletic prowess, their ability to make money, whatever. Other people on this thread have demeaned your sense of loss because they view your concern as being solely concerned with looks, but in fact that is not what is going on at all.

I've had moments of genuine allure, and moments when such allure completely escaped me, so I do know the sheer intoxication of that kind of admiration. So many things become easy in that kind of glow that you imagine you're above the nuts and bolts of survival. People flock to you, and forgive you, much more so than mere mortals. To have that kind of interaction with people is very hard to give up.

Now, here is the crux of the issue. No matter what skill or ability you have, you would have seen it fall to the wayside as you got older. Only when we have a talent that we work on, such as a craft or talent (playing an instrument, etc) do the years reward hard work. For the rest of us, aging means putting aside the youthful life we had. This is common to all of us. You say that your beauty put you in circles of power, and that you miss this; for others the loss is about the frivolity of going to nightclubs, or playing football, or any number of activities that are easier and simpler when we're young. Time passes, and we change. What then?

What then, is that you realise that your allure is in fact all in your mind. No mere beauty is tolerated for very long if she has nothing else to offer, and it was this as well as your visage that granted you access to those dinner parties. You are articulate, and self aware. I can tell you this after one post on an internet forum. You no doubt have other skills and talents, independent of your beauty. Don't let a false sense of insecurity put you off from using and developing them.

The beauty of life is not that it is riches that satiate, but that it has nuances that delight with its layers. Give your older, more mellow self a chance to see and experience that. Fashion comes and goes with each year, but elegance of the soul is timeless. Good luck.

iguana

Just the same wrote: »

The truth be told they would have been looking at you and would have traded ALL their supposed intellect/sophistication etc for one day in your body.

Do you really believe that? Seriously? I'm good-looking, when I was younger I got a huge amount of attention from men. I was never asked to be a model as I'm just 5'1" but I had random men give me flowers on the street on 5 separate occasions. I also have an IQ of 160+. And d'you know what? If I had to I would trade both my looks and intelligence to keep my husband, my family, my good friends and even my dogs. Nothing, absolutely NOTHING, beats having real love in your life.

I'm not wild about starting to look older. I see the grey hairs and wrinkles creeping in and yeah, I hate it. I hate that it has started taking my body longer to spring back from stress/illness. Last month my husband was seriously ill in hospital and after it was all over and he was home I caught sight of my reflection in the mirror and could see that the whole experience had taken it's toll on my face, and despite everything I was a bit peeved.

But the thing is one of two things will happen to everyone alive. We will get old or we will die young, and I sure as hell don't want to die young, so I'll just have to hope I get old. And while I'd like to age beautifully most of all I want to age with people I love all around me.

MissHoneyBun

bubbleking wrote: »

All the Advice you could ever want in 3 words "GET OVER YOURSELF"

She'd need a ladder at this stage!
I'm sorry OP but that level of shallow self obsession is just indulgent and sickening. You'd do well to take your head out of the mirror and focus on changing your very unattractive personality traits instead.

Wagon

To be straight to the point: all those dinner parties, older men and sophisticated people with their fascinating conversation had one thing in common. You won't like this. 95% of the time, the only reason you were sitting at those tables was because they wanted to fúck you in a hotel room later. And that's it. I don't know if you realise that. If you were invited to those fancy parties and had all that glamour without being there for a reason other than your looks, thats the only thing they wanted you for.

You currently have a partner, you probably still look good for your age im sure and sound like you've done some interesting things and done well for yourself. Yet, you'd trade all that to go back to the life you had when you were 21... It doesn't say much about your personailty.

Wagon

Wagon wrote: »

To be straight to the point: all those dinner parties, older men and sophisticated people with their fascinating conversation had one thing in common. You won't like this. 95% of the time, the only reason you were sitting at those tables was because they wanted to fúck you in a hotel room later. And that's it. I don't know if you realise that. If you were invited to those fancy parties and had all that glamour without being there for a reason other than your looks, thats the only thing they wanted you for.

Indeed. That's why I'm finding it so hard to understand why OP even liked that lifestyle, let alone why she would want to go back to it. Maybe I'm just a weirdo, but I absolutely hate being ogled at and treated as eye candy. I walked into town yesterday to do some shopping and got a good few glances and whistles - it made me more uncomfortable than anything. I guess on some level it's nice to know you're considered attractive, but I have a real problem with being treated like a piece of meat. When I do get invited to events and conferences, I dress down as much as possible to ensure that I am being taken seriously. Oh well. Horses for courses.

metrovelvet

Because some people like it. To be is to be perceived.

Emme

Some women start out relatively plain and get better with age. I have a friend of 43 who looks far younger but she was very tomboyish in her 20s. She was into backpacking, travel, staying in hostels etc. and wasn't bothered with makeup or fancy hairstyles. The only thing she did was used a good sunscreen because she's quite fair and this probably stood to her. She has a good diet as well - puts the rest of us to shame! Now she's older she's getting loads of attention from younger guys and thinks it's hilarious.

It's not so easy to get attention from the older guys because the good ones are harder to find. I'd imagine that the older guys who went for the OP when she was younger were quite shallow and only interested in youth and beauty that doesn't answer back, not worth having, in other words. There are lots of older men like that and there will always be young girls who are naive or mercenary enough to accept their attention. I feel sorry for the naive girls who don't realise the men only want to sleep with them and the same men deserve to be ripped off by the mercenary girls.

In a way looks are the key to door the rest of us can't open, and when you take that for granted and it's suddenly taken away from you it must be tough. But why try to hold on to it? Why not change and grow instead, develop your personality, do some volunteer work, learn a new skill.

LegacyUser

Wagon wrote: »

To be straight to the point: all those dinner parties, older men and sophisticated people with their fascinating conversation had one thing in common. You won't like this. 95% of the time, the only reason you were sitting at those tables was because they wanted to fúck you in a hotel room later. And that's it. I don't know if you realise that. If you were invited to those fancy parties and had all that glamour without being there for a reason other than your looks, thats the only thing they wanted you for.

Ah... you see thats where you're wrong. I have no problem with men looking at me and wanting to shag me! In fact that was the whole buzz! I enjoyed that attention. People have been shagging for generations - its what makes the world go round, and I really enjoyed scoring high for shaggability! What I fear is when I'm no longer desirable to desirable men (young or old)!

LegacyUser

[quote=[Deleted User];64488434]Indeed. That's why I'm finding it so hard to understand why OP even liked that lifestyle, let alone why she would want to go back to it. Maybe I'm just a weirdo, but I absolutely hate being ogled at and treated as eye candy. I walked into town yesterday to do some shopping and got a good few glances and whistles - it made me more uncomfortable than anything. I guess on some level it's nice to know you're considered attractive, but I have a real problem with being treated like a piece of meat. When I do get invited to events and conferences, I dress down as much as possible to ensure that I am being taken seriously. Oh well. Horses for courses.[/QUOTE]


Horses for courses indeed! As I just said above... I've always got a major kick out of being attractive. Why does attention make you so uncomfortable? Why can't you 'own it' and enjoy?

(which is not to be confused with dressing inappropriately for events and conferences... thats not even what this thread is about).

There is nothing wrong or tawdry with men finding women beautiful or sexy and there is nothing cheap or stupid about women who enjoy that feeling - its what makes the universe go round!

Eitherway Izzy, your discomfort won't last forever! I still get the glances and whistles too (though that could be a case of Kronenberg 1665! LOL) but I know I'll miss them when they're gone. Maybe you should try to get a little bit of enjoyment out of it too, as you won't always get those glances. Where you think a man is seeing you as a 'piece of meat' he might just be thinking you're a beautiful girl (and wondering how to get your number!); men aren't monsters, they're alot like us!

LegacyUser

Walls wrote: »

This is an interesting question, OP, and you've received some 'interesting' answers. The identity you have for yourself is one that you now see fading, and it is leading you to question yourself and what value you have. For you, it is your looks, but for others it might be their intellectual skills, their athletic prowess, their ability to make money, whatever. Other people on this thread have demeaned your sense of loss because they view your concern as being solely concerned with looks, but in fact that is not what is going on at all.

I've had moments of genuine allure, and moments when such allure completely escaped me, so I do know the sheer intoxication of that kind of admiration. So many things become easy in that kind of glow that you imagine you're above the nuts and bolts of survival. People flock to you, and forgive you, much more so than mere mortals. To have that kind of interaction with people is very hard to give up.

Now, here is the crux of the issue. No matter what skill or ability you have, you would have seen it fall to the wayside as you got older. Only when we have a talent that we work on, such as a craft or talent (playing an instrument, etc) do the years reward hard work. For the rest of us, aging means putting aside the youthful life we had. This is common to all of us. You say that your beauty put you in circles of power, and that you miss this; for others the loss is about the frivolity of going to nightclubs, or playing football, or any number of activities that are easier and simpler when we're young. Time passes, and we change. What then?

What then, is that you realise that your allure is in fact all in your mind. No mere beauty is tolerated for very long if she has nothing else to offer, and it was this as well as your visage that granted you access to those dinner parties. You are articulate, and self aware. I can tell you this after one post on an internet forum. You no doubt have other skills and talents, independent of your beauty. Don't let a false sense of insecurity put you off from using and developing them.

The beauty of life is not that it is riches that satiate, but that it has nuances that delight with its layers. Give your older, more mellow self a chance to see and experience that. Fashion comes and goes with each year, but elegance of the soul is timeless. Good luck.

Thankyou for a great post Walls, and thanks to everyone else on this thread too who's taken the time to respond and put some really great and thought provoking answers up there. You've all just just about saved me a trip to a therapist!

Its certainly helped me reflect and feel less neurotic about all this.

As someone said, being appreciated for beauty is a major emotional high and I've been wired to tap into that high. Now I'm facing a time where my 'drug supply' is slowly being reduced, and thats something that I'll have to learn to accept and get my kicks elsewhere.

And maybe its good that I'm facing up to this now rather than in five or ten years when thing have really gone south, aesthetically anyway.

As you and others have said, while beauty was my 'thing', maybe its just youth I'm missing.

Food for thought.

Thanks again.

Wagon

Yoursovainyou wrote: »

Ah... you see thats where you're wrong. I have no problem with men looking at me and wanting to shag me! In fact that was the whole buzz! I enjoyed that attention. People have been shagging for generations - its what makes the world go round, and I really enjoyed scoring high for shaggability! What I fear is when I'm no longer desirable to desirable men (young or old)!

What about your boyfriend though? Not good enough?

There's nothing i can do to help you im afraid. And yes, if thats the life you want then fair enough but sadly, you can't. becuase you're getting older. and there's nothing you can do about it. its part of life.

LegacyUser

Wagon wrote: »

What about your boyfriend though? Not good enough?

There's nothing i can do to help you im afraid. And yes, if thats the life you want then fair enough but sadly, you can't. becuase you're getting older. and there's nothing you can do about it. its part of life.

My boyfriend is more than good enough. I just enjoyed being young and beautiful and I've been missing it.

I realise you can't reverse my aging process Wagon.

But some posters here have said some lovely things which are helping me deal with the transition. Thanks anyway.

Emme

Yoursovainyou wrote: »

Ah... you see thats where you're wrong. I have no problem with men looking at me and wanting to shag me! In fact that was the whole buzz! I enjoyed that attention. People have been shagging for generations - its what makes the world go round, and I really enjoyed scoring high for shaggability! What I fear is when I'm no longer desirable to desirable men (young or old)!

This is a fear that most of us have been living with since our late teens. We start off thinking "will I ever be desirable to boys?" and later on wonder if we will ever be desirable to men in between getting on with our lives. However, we ordinary folk have the advantage of being able to overcome this fear at a young age by making ourselves sought out in different ways, i.e. playing a musical instrument, excelling at sport or just being a good friend to others.

OP, I take it that you're for real. Even supermodels doubt themselves when they're younger. Cindy Crawford didn't realise she was pretty until she started modelling.

Yoursovainyou

Yoursovainyou wrote: »

Horses for courses indeed! As I just said above... I've always got a major kick out of being attractive. Why does attention make you so uncomfortable? Why can't you 'own it' and enjoy?

Well, horses for courses again. I personally don't see what's so enjoyable about being stared or talked to when I'm walking down the street with my headphones on on my way to work or to my boyfriend's place. Obviously there is a part of me which thinks, 'well at least I'm considered attractive' and I suppose it's a little ego boost in that way, but the actual attention itself, I don't really like it. It makes me self conscious and I feel objectified. I want to be smiled at and admired because I'm funny or nice or intelligent, not because I have a nice arse. I often decide against wearing a miniskirt (with thick tights during the day) if I'm afraid it will attract unwanted attention.

There is nothing wrong or tawdry with men finding women beautiful or sexy and there is nothing cheap or stupid about women who enjoy that feeling - its what makes the universe go round!

No, it's not wrong to find women beautiful but I think it is pretty crass to wolf whistle and shout things. I don't wolf whistle at attractive men I see on the street.

Eitherway Izzy, your discomfort won't last forever! I still get the glances and whistles too (though that could be a case of Kronenberg 1665! LOL) but I know I'll miss them when they're gone. Maybe you should try to get a little bit of enjoyment out of it too, as you won't always get those glances. Where you think a man is seeing you as a 'piece of meat' he might just be thinking you're a beautiful girl (and wondering how to get your number!); men aren't monsters, they're alot like us!

Perhaps I will miss them, who knows. Maybe I've had more bad experiences than you which have made me tar the wolf whistlers and starers with the same brush. I just don't have any interest in guys who leer and whistle, to be honest. It puts me on edge. I don't really care if some random guy thinks I'm pretty. He doesn't know me. Maybe that will change when I'm older, who knows.

LegacyUser

This is my last post on this subject as I'm not sure what more there is to say.

But to clear up some misunderstandings:

I am for real. If you read my original post, you'll see that I said I didn't realise what I had going for me when I was younger, I knew I was attractive but not how lucky I was and I took for granted many of the doors with attractiveness (and arguably other qualities) opened for me. Sure we've all had our ugly duckling moments - I'm having one right now!

Its also been implied repeated on this thread that I've never developed anything other than looks and I've said repeatedly that I've always had 'other stuff' in my life. I'm educated to masters level; I'm an accomplished photographer; I'm a good friend and have a healthy social circle; I've had a very successful career in an area that has nothing to do with beauty; I do salsa classes; I'm very well travelled and I've even climbed the odd (small!) mountain. What more do you want me to do!

Alot of people on this thread have seemed to want to imply that I was wrong to get such a buzz out of being attractive - that enjoying my looks somehow made me stupid or cheap. But I'm really glad that I got such enjoyment out of being attractive. That was my 'buzz' for years, not to the exclusion of all else, but turning heads was one of my personal favourite things to do. Just because its not yours doesn't mean its wrong for other people. I'm glad to have had the experiences I've had.

And writing all this has helped me see that its ok to grief for something which I am (slowly) losing.

I suppose I started this thread in a moment of depression about fading looks and regret for opportunities not taken, and some people have written some beautiful words of wisdom about the loss of youth which will stay with me and hopefully work some magic beneath the surface.... but if anyone expects me to somehow rewrite my own history and start to believe I was somehow wrong for enjoying being young and pretty - fock no! I'd do it all again in a minute!

Only next time I'd go to those photoshoots!!! And date more!! :-D

Anyway, thanks for the words of wisedom.

Over and out xxx

LegacyUser

[quote=[Deleted User];64498935]Well, horses for courses again. I personally don't see what's so enjoyable about being stared or talked to when I'm walking down the street with my headphones on on my way to work or to my boyfriend's place. Obviously there is a part of me which thinks, 'well at least I'm considered attractive' and I suppose it's a little ego boost in that way, but the actual attention itself, I don't really like it. It makes me self conscious and I feel objectified. I want to be smiled at and admired because I'm funny or nice or intelligent, not because I have a nice arse. I often decide against wearing a miniskirt (with thick tights during the day) if I'm afraid it will attract unwanted attention.



No, it's not wrong to find women beautiful but I think it is pretty crass to wolf whistle and shout things. I don't wolf whistle at attractive men I see on the street.



Perhaps I will miss them, who knows. Maybe I've had more bad experiences than you which have made me tar the wolf whistlers and starers with the same brush. I just don't have any interest in guys who leer and whistle, to be honest. It puts me on edge. I don't really care if some random guy thinks I'm pretty. He doesn't know me. Maybe that will change when I'm older, who knows.[/QUOTE]



Eh... the OP was talking about meeting interesting men and going to exotic parties. You're worried about wolf whistlers on the street. Thats a bit glass half empty, do you not think you're missing the bigger picture?
I've always had average looks. I did ok and had boyfriends. But my best friend was and is a very good looking girl. It would be annoying when we were out because lads would hardly notice me beside her. They just wouldn't see me. But she couldn't help getting all that attention, thats just how she was treated. I never resented her for it because if I'd had model looks I'd have enjoyed every minute of it. We've both ended up married and getting on with our lives so being goodlooking or average hasn't made that much difference in the long run.
But if being wolf whistled at by some eejits in the street is the worst thing about being goodlooking then sign me in for plastic surgury!

oklookinggirl

oklookinggirl wrote: »

Eh... the OP was talking about meeting interesting men and going to exotic parties. You're worried about wolf whistlers on the street. Thats a bit glass half empty, do you not think you're missing the bigger picture?
I've always had average looks. I did ok and had boyfriends. But my best friend was and is a very good looking girl. It would be annoying when we were out because lads would hardly notice me beside her. They just wouldn't see me. But she couldn't help getting all that attention, thats just how she was treated. I never resented her for it because if I'd had model looks I'd have enjoyed every minute of it. We've both ended up married and getting on with our lives so being goodlooking or average hasn't made that much difference in the long run.
But if being wolf whistled at by some eejits in the street is the worst thing about being goodlooking then sign me in for plastic surgury!

Eh, no, I don't think so. I addressed one particular point the OP brought up which was being looked at/whistled at on the street, but I also said I would not be comfortable at an 'exotic party' where I was invited to be the 'eye candy'. It's just not my cup of tea. I'm not really comfortable with being appreciated for my looks alone on any level. That's why I don't really dress up. I own two pairs of heels, one I wore to my graduation and the other to my cousin's wedding.

But as for being wolf whistled at by eejits in the street - it can be a lot more serious than that. A young, attractive woman is an easy target. In the last few months in London, I've been groped on the Tube, groped walking along the street, once in a really crowded area, I was surrounded by a group of men, one of whom grabbed my head and kissed me on the lips. A lot of men can really be total animals when they think they'll get away with it. I actually carefully consider what to wear if I know I'll be going outside on my own. I wanted to wear a miniskirt (with thick tights) today but I decided to wear jeans instead because that way I get less attention. And I'm not even that good looking, I've done some modelling but nothing big and no catwalk. I know saying you don't like attention on the street comes across as moaning about nothing, but it really can be scary and unpleasant sometimes.

LegacyUser

[quote=[Deleted User];64511545]Eh, no, I don't think so. I addressed one particular point the OP brought up which was being looked at/whistled at on the street, but I also said I would not be comfortable at an 'exotic party' where I was invited to be the 'eye candy'. It's just not my cup of tea. I'm not really comfortable with being appreciated for my looks alone on any level. That's why I don't really dress up. I own two pairs of heels, one I wore to my graduation and the other to my cousin's wedding.

But as for being wolf whistled at by eejits in the street - it can be a lot more serious than that. A young, attractive woman is an easy target. In the last few months in London, I've been groped on the Tube, groped walking along the street, once in a really crowded area, I was surrounded by a group of men, one of whom grabbed my head and kissed me on the lips. A lot of men can really be total animals when they think they'll get away with it. I actually carefully consider what to wear if I know I'll be going outside on my own. I wanted to wear a miniskirt (with thick tights) today but I decided to wear jeans instead because that way I get less attention. And I'm not even that good looking, I've done some modelling but nothing big and no catwalk. I know saying you don't like attention on the street comes across as moaning about nothing, but it really can be scary and unpleasant sometimes.[/QUOTE]


Well sorry to hear you've been sexually harassed but surely you're not saying that its a victim's fault for being sexually harassed because she wears skirts or looks attractive?!

You can let yourself be bullied into a burka if you want but what was forty years of feminism for if not about choosing how we want to look. Do you look down on women who like dressing up?

Eitherway, I don't think thats the kind of attention the OP was talking about. Nobody enjoys sexual harrassment! So maybe we should stay on topic.

I know where the OP is coming from. I'm turning thirty this year and not happy about it but its something we all have to face at some stage. As others have said, just keep accentuating the positive. You sound like you have a lot going for you in other areas, thats what I'm trying to do.

LegacyUser

ThebigthreeO Izzy wizzy was responding to the OP's asking her why she didn't like being wistled at. and she was clearly not looking down on women who dress up she was explaining why she sometimes didn't feel comfortable doing it. You are twisting her posts wildy.

Surely you can see the connection between having been sexually assualted in the past by men in the street and not wanting sexual attention from strangers in the street. Femminism was (and is) not only women being able to choose to wear a mini skirt but also not about risking sexual assualt by doing it.

Izzy Wizzy I agree with you, I hate that kind of attention, it's puts me on edge. I don't care if men in the street thing I am attractive and it angers me that they feel that can just yell at me in public. There's something very agrressive about being yelled at in poublic no matter whether they're trying to be complimentary.

OP I can understand where youre coming from. No one wants to lose their looks as they get older. It'd especially hard for women who are under a great deal of pressure to look a certain way. But it sounds to me like you have a nice life and have done and accomplished some interesting things. Is they way you look really that important to you??

I know it can be fun getting attention from men butyour whole self esteem shouldn't be tied to it.

ThebigthreeO

ThebigthreeO wrote: »

Well sorry to hear you've been sexually harassed but surely you're not saying that its a victim's fault for being sexually harassed because she wears skirts or looks attractive?!

Where did I say that? Of course it's not the victim's fault. One poster said 'if the worst thing about being goodlooking is wolf whistles, sign me up for plastic surgery' and I said that actually it can be a lot more than wolf whistles, and that it can be intimidating and scary. I'm talking about looks, not clothing.

I said that I personally get less annoying attention when I wear jeans rather than skirts and flats rather than heels, so I prefer to dress more casually so I get less of the wolf whistles and ten second stares. And also as I said, I just find it more comfortable to do so anyway. Sometimes it doesn't even make that much difference. I'm wearing jeans and runners today, I have a cold sore and my hair is greasy and just now I had about 3 guys staring at me inside the tube carriage, one of whom got off at my stop and starting trying to chat me up. He seemed pretty normal, but it makes me nervous. I've been followed by some total weirdos in the past.

You can let yourself be bullied into a burka if you want but what was forty years of feminism for if not about choosing how we want to look. Do you look down on women who like dressing up?

No, but I look down on people who ask me questions about my personal circumstances and then twist around my replies. Yes, I know it wasn't you who asked, but I was asked about my personal views and I answered. I have some valid reasons for the way I choose to act/dress/behave, I couldn't give two hoots what anyone else does. Stop putting words into my mouth, of course people can dress how they want to. If I feel like wearing a miniskirt, I wear a miniskirt. I just know I will get more attention and sometimes I can't be bothered to deal with it.

Eitherway, I don't think thats the kind of attention the OP was talking about. Nobody enjoys sexual harrassment! So maybe we should stay on topic.

Well, a lot of women consider wolf whistling and leering sexual harrassment. The OP sees it as a compliment, many women see it as annoying and degrading. I don't know why this is so hard to grasp. Again, horses for courses. There is no right or wrong, it's a matter of opinion. One woman might be flattered by a wink and a 'hey sexy!' comment, another might break the guy's nose.

LegacyUser

I know that the OP had said that she's posted for the last time on this thread, but I do hope you read this!

I feel as though some people have been very harsh on you. I don't think you're shallow or superficial or uninteresting or stupid. I recognise a huge amount of myself in your posts. I'm in my mid-twenties and would considered by many people to be very good looking. I know that the word used to describe me the most often is "stunning". I wasn't the most gorgeous child or teenager but I grew into my looks, the teenage acne went away, and for the last 7 or 8 years, how I look has become a very significant part of my identity, which was a process I felt I had little control over. Being very pretty has, like the OP, afforded me many opportunities that aren't on offer to many of my friends. I get in free to nightclubs, get invited to VIP parties, get asked out by very successful men, have been treated to lovely presents, can more or less decide who I want to be with in terms of men. But the thing is that this kind of opportunity is completely and utterly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. The rich, gorgeous looking guys have treated me really badly. The VIP parties are fun for some light entertainment for the night but aren't reality. None of it actually means anything.

I got 600 points in my leaving cert. That's what got me my much-coveted place in college and my great career. The good relationships I've had have been with ordinary looking guys who were in very normal jobs or were broke students. My real friends are the ones who couldn't care less whether I've a new dress on or not, or whether I just got back from a photoshoot. How I look is just one more aspect of me that helps to make up a whole person.

I don't think the OP needs to "get over herself". You can know that everyone around you perceives you to be stunning and still feel very insecure I still have days when I hate my hair so much I feel like shaving my head, or when I look at pictures of myself on facebook and all I see is my fat arms or I hate my outfit or whatever. I know that I'll find it difficult when I start to age. I'm heading into my late twenties and although I regularly get mistaken for a 22 year-old, I'm already so apprehensive about eventually "losing it". I'll still be the really intelligent girl with the great career but a very fundmental part of me fiercely wants to always be the beautiful girl. It would be hard to let that go.

I think that for both myself and the OP, the most important thing to realise is that you can still be stunning at 40, at 50, at 60, even at 70. Look at how beautiful Audrey Hepburn was in her sixties when she died, even though she had aged badly and had cancer. I think it's about elegance and dignity, and desperately trying to cling to 25 with botox and the like isn't dignified. Think about it OP; if you were the most beautiful 22 year old in a room, why wouldn't you be the most beautiful 40 year old in the room, when you reach that age? Take care of yourself and you should stay gorgeous for a long time! That's how I'm viewing it anyhow.

Emme

unreg83ellie wrote: »

Look at how beautiful Audrey Hepburn was in her sixties when she died, even though she had aged badly and had cancer.

She was beautiful in spite of having cancer? That's a bit harsh, isn't it? Audrey probably wasn't much bothered about how she aged anyway, she was grateful just to be alive. She almost starved to death WWII and did a lot of genuine charity work when she got older. She would have been more concerned about her charity work than the number of lines on her face. Her beauty came from inside. I know it sounds corny, but her goodness gave her a radiance that transcended any amount of lines and wrinkles. That's why she's still such an icon today.

LegacyUser

Emme wrote: »

She was beautiful in spite of having cancer? That's a bit harsh, isn't it? Audrey probably wasn't much bothered about how she aged anyway, she was grateful just to be alive. She almost starved to death WWII and did a lot of genuine charity work when she got older. She would have been more concerned about her charity work than the number of lines on her face. Her beauty came from inside. I know it sounds corny, but her goodness gave her a radiance that transcended any amount of lines and wrinkles. That's why she's still such an icon today.

God, I did NOT mean that to be nasty or malicious. I was saying that her beauty always came through. Please don't read nastiness into a statement where I meant none She's an icon of mine and an inspiration. I know her whole back story and life story. Off topic copletely but I certainly wasn't being any way cruel in that statement towards her or any cancer sufferers,

LegacyUser

[quote=[Deleted User];64514143]Where did I say that? Of course it's not the victim's fault. One poster said 'if the worst thing about being goodlooking is wolf whistles, sign me up for plastic surgery' and I said that actually it can be a lot more than wolf whistles, and that it can be intimidating and scary. I'm talking about looks, not clothing.

I said that I personally get less annoying attention when I wear jeans rather than skirts and flats rather than heels, so I prefer to dress more casually so I get less of the wolf whistles and ten second stares. And also as I said, I just find it more comfortable to do so anyway. Sometimes it doesn't even make that much difference. I'm wearing jeans and runners today, I have a cold sore and my hair is greasy and just now I had about 3 guys staring at me inside the tube carriage, one of whom got off at my stop and starting trying to chat me up. He seemed pretty normal, but it makes me nervous. I've been followed by some total weirdos in the past.

No, but I look down on people who ask me questions about my personal circumstances and then twist around my replies. Yes, I know it wasn't you who asked, but I was asked about my personal views and I answered. I have some valid reasons for the way I choose to act/dress/behave, I couldn't give two hoots what anyone else does. Stop putting words into my mouth, of course people can dress how they want to. If I feel like wearing a miniskirt, I wear a miniskirt. I just know I will get more attention and sometimes I can't be bothered to deal with it.

Well, a lot of women consider wolf whistling and leering sexual harrassment. The OP sees it as a compliment, many women see it as annoying and degrading. I don't know why this is so hard to grasp. Again, horses for courses. There is no right or wrong, it's a matter of opinion. One woman might be flattered by a wink and a 'hey sexy!' comment, another might break the guy's nose.[/QUOTE]


Ok, I just feel that you were very down on the OP for reasons that I'm not getting and when you were challenged on it you turned into it a sexual harassment issue.

There's a big difference between a cute 'howareya?' from a builder and being surrounded by a group of men and having a tongue rammed down your throat i.e. one is cute (to many women) or at least harmless and the other is abusive. I doubt the OP or any woman see abuse as a compliment.

In fact, I'm not even sure what the relevance of the sexual harassment stuff is on this thread? That its better to be plain because you don't get sexually harassed?

I don't think thats true. I know lots of ordinary looking girls who've been sexually harassed or abused. I'm no 'oil painting' as they say, but I've grown into my looks as I've gotten older, sorted out my skin and slimmed down, but the worst sexual harassment I ever had was being chased down a road and groped by a bunch of arab men when I was on holidays when I was thirteen. I was borderline obese at the time and had such bad acne I nearly ended up in hospital for it. I bet if you spent a day at rape trials you'd see all kinds of women, good looking and normal looking, cause abuse is really about power.

Certain kinds of men on the street will harass girls if the girls are young and they give off vulnerability. I personally would not let these men bully me into a pair of jeans, not least because thats only a few steps away from accepting that a women has some kind of contributory role in her abuse for dressing a certain way. Of course how you handle your abuse is up to you and I'm sorry to hear that it happened to you.

sunnyside

[quote=[Deleted User];64511545]I would not be comfortable at an 'exotic party' where I was invited to be the 'eye candy'. It's just not my cup of tea. I'm not really comfortable with being appreciated for my looks alone on any level. .[/QUOTE]

The "game" the OP speaks of doesn't really work like that. It's not as if the "eye candy" just stands there and gets admired. The good looks provide access to the "exotic party". Someone who has the personality to match will usually make friends within this circle and then that circle becomes a normal social outlet for them. Nobody will survive in any social circle for long without personality. Rather than being the "eye candy" at the party the aim is to get invited back to the next party.

ThebigthreeO

ThebigthreeO wrote: »

Ok, I just feel that you were very down on the OP for reasons that I'm not getting and when you were challenged on it you turned into it a sexual harassment issue.

No, I was ASKED why I PERSONALLY don't like attention from strangers, I was responding to someone who implied that people whistling at you wasn't a bad thing and I brought it up as part of the reason. I would have rather not gone there, but I was asked.

There's a big difference between a cute 'howareya?' from a builder and being surrounded by a group of men and having a tongue rammed down your throat i.e. one is cute (to many women) or at least harmless and the other is abusive. I doubt the OP or any woman see abuse as a compliment.

Obviously. Of course one is worse than the other. A hell of a lot of women would still be extremely angry at even a 'cute' comment or a wolf whistle. I don't really care as long as nobody's touching me or being abusive, but I've seen women turn around and curse at the guy. You know, I can understand why some women would be flattered by being whistled at (it's a confirmation she's attractive to men) but you don't seem to understand why many don't like it. Many women DON'T like their appearance being commented on, don't like attention drawn to them, don't like being objectified. And if someone is wolf whistling at you because your arse looks nice in that tight skirt, you ARE being objectified.

In fact, I'm not even sure what the relevance of the sexual harassment stuff is on this thread? That its better to be plain because you don't get sexually harassed?

Well if you'd bothered to read the previous posts, you'd see one poster had quoted me and said wolf whistles weren't a big deal. I said I'm not comfortable with the type of men who do that because I have had bad experiences with them going much further and that wolf whistles themselves can be considered harassment. And no, plain people do not tend to get the same level of harassment as more attractive people, because they simply don't attract the same level of attention. Of course that's a generalisation, but suggesting otherwise would be silly, IMO.

Certain kinds of men on the street will harass girls if the girls are young and they give off vulnerability. I personally would not let these men bully me into a pair of jeans, not least because thats only a few steps away from accepting that a women has some kind of contributory role in her abuse for dressing a certain way. Of course how you handle your abuse is up to you and I'm sorry to hear that it happened to you.

Get down of your high horse and stop putting words into my mouth. I am the least approachable looking person on the planet. I walk around at 100 miles an hour with my headphones in - even charity muggers don't stop me! Physically I'm quite short and quite slim - what do you want me to do about that exactly? Stop making mountains out of molehills. When I'm not feeling well and I'm going to/coming from the hospital, I don't want to deal with some slack jawed moron shouting comments about my arse. Of course I could deal with it, ignore it or give him the finger, but some days I just cannot be bothered. I have enough things on my plate as it is. If you aren't bothered at all by leering and irritating comments, bully for you. I was answering the question I was asked. Now I will stop derailing the thread with this off-topic stuff.

sunnyside wrote: »

The "game" the OP speaks of doesn't really work like that. It's not as if the "eye candy" just stands there and gets admired. The good looks provide access to the "exotic party". Someone who has the personality to match will usually make friends within this circle and then that circle becomes a normal social outlet for them. Nobody will survive in any social circle for long without personality. Rather than being the "eye candy" at the party the aim is to get invited back to the next party.

I already addressed this. I just don't think being invited somewhere because you're hot is much to be proud of. Sure, you might need a personality of some sort, but it's secondary. Shouldn't the looks be secondary? Getting into some 'social circle' because you have a pretty face and can laugh at bad jokes seems incredibly, incredibly shallow to me. I'm sure it is good fun, but it's of very little substance. Why long for it when you're well into your thirties? Shouldn't you be concerned with more important things?

Alessandra

It's a harsh reality OP but you are getting older. We all are.
Much as it pains me to say, the days of a party lifestyle decrease as the years go by. In general people's priorities change when they are in the late twenties and early thirties.
Growing older doesn't mean you become less attractive, less youthful looking perhaps but youth does not always equate beauty. Beauty is subjective.
Remember the good times you had and find pleasure in other things now. If you become focused on the past you will let time pass you by.

LegacyUser

[quote=[Deleted User];64520373]

Well if you'd bothered to read the previous posts, you'd see one poster had quoted me and said wolf whistles weren't a big deal. I said I'm not comfortable with the type of men who do that because I have had bad experiences with them going much further and that wolf whistles themselves can be considered harassment. And no, plain people do not tend to get the same level of harassment as more attractive people, because they simply don't attract the same level of attention. Of course that's a generalisation, but suggesting otherwise would be silly, IMO.



Get down of your high horse and stop putting words into my mouth. I am the least approachable looking person on the planet. I walk around at 100 miles an hour with my headphones in - even charity muggers don't stop me! Physically I'm quite short and quite slim - what do you want me to do about that exactly? Stop making mountains out of molehills. When I'm not feeling well and I'm going to/coming from the hospital, I don't want to deal with some slack jawed moron shouting comments about my arse. Of course I could deal with it, ignore it or give him the finger, but some days I just cannot be bothered. I have enough things on my plate as it is. If you aren't bothered at all by leering and irritating comments, bully for you. I was answering the question I was asked. Now I will stop derailing the thread with this off-topic stuff.




I already addressed this. I just don't think being invited somewhere because you're hot is much to be proud of. Sure, you might need a personality of some sort, but it's secondary. Shouldn't the looks be secondary? Getting into some 'social circle' because you have a pretty face and can laugh at bad jokes seems incredibly, incredibly shallow to me. I'm sure it is good fun, but it's of very little substance. Why long for it when you're well into your thirties? Shouldn't you be concerned with more important things?[/QUOTE]


You say plain people don't get the same level of harassment. I say you'd have a tough time finding any woman who's not been harassed and that includes our uglier sisters. My cousin is a great looking girl and she's sailed through life no bother. My ex looks like the back of a bus, god love her, and she's been raped twice. I would argue that men who harass and abuse women are opportunists, not aesthetes.

And FYI I'm a fully fledged lesbian so I'm hardly running around looking for attention off random men. But I also appreciate the difference between sexual harassment and the kind of game the boys and girls play in Italy, where the guys make comments as the girls pass and the girls artfully ignore them and everyone has a good time. I'd bet money thats what the OP meant when she was talking about attention.

I'm not on a high horse either FYI and I didn't take this thread off topic. You did.

On a side note, why do you insist that the OP was 'a piece of meat' listening to 'bad jokes'. They could have been the best jokes ever told for all you know. This all seems very emotive for you.

I'm a non-fem lesbian who hasn't worn lippy since 1999. I'm two stone overweight and I couldn't give a ****. I get invited to parties cause people think I'm funny. It wouldn't bother me if there are girls at those parties because they're pretty. We all have something different to offer. Thats what makes a good party.