Some East Galway Schools Ghettoized

DogmaticLefty

From what I've seen on the RTE News, it appears racism is alive and well in East Galway.

100% of students entering the school last September required language support.

Danbo!

[citation needed]

oppenheimer1

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

From what I've seen on the RTE News, it appears racism is alive and well in East Galway.

100% of students entering the school last September required language support.

How is that racist?

Midnight_EG

Holy shit, a primary school needs to provide language support for kids that are between 3-5, assuming they entered in baby infants!

DogmaticLefty

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

How is that racist?

Maybe you're right. Perhaps there's another reason...

jimmycrackcorm

That's what you get for not going to a catholic school....

epgc3fyqirnbsx

Kiera wrote: »

211 posts in 4 days? Someones lonely....

ah c'mon Kiera, maybe poor dude broke his legs...

walshb

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

From what I've seen on the RTE News, it appears racism is alive and well in East Galway.

100% of students entering the school last September required language support.

Any link??

Racism alive? No, illiteracy alive? Yes!

oppenheimer1

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

Maybe you're right. Perhaps there's another reason...

Educate together schools are run specifically to be religioulsy neutral as opposed to the majority of the primary school network. Considering that non national are largely non catholic it is reasonable to assume they would send their children to a school with such a policy. rather than having catholic teaching rammed down their neck as so many posters on this forum complain about.

Pherekydes

walshb wrote: »

Any link??

Racism alive? No, illiteracy alive? Yes!

His post looks OK to me.

DogmaticLefty

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Educate together schools are run specifically to be religioulsy neutral as opposed to the majority of the primary school network. Considering that non national are largely non catholic it is reasonable to assume they would send their children to a school with such a policy. rather than having catholic teaching rammed down their neck as so many posters on this forum complain about.

Oh right. Well that explains it.

walshb

Pherekydes wrote: »

His post looks OK to me.

No link to the thread, also, his literacy is grand. I was referring to the 100 percent of students.

Biggins

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0211/schools.html

The principals of multi-ethnic schools say 'ghettoisation' is taking root among newcomer communities in Ireland.
They have warned of apathy and disengagement developing among the children of immigrants as a result of recent cuts in English language services in their schools.
Five school principals appeared before told the Dáil's Joint Committee on Education this morning.
The committee heard warnings that children were becoming frustrated and developing a dislike for school as a result of the cuts.

The five school principals represent schools where up to 90% and more of pupils have immigrant parents.
They called for a range of additional measures to be targeted at multi-ethnic schools.
Top of their list and needed as a matter of urgency, they say, are more English language supports.
They were also critical of enrolment policies, which they said were making it difficult for the children of immigrant parents to find a school place.
However, out of 15 members of the committee just four attended fully to hear the principals speak. Fine Gael's Ulick Burke said he was embarrassed by the low attendance.

Committee Chairman Paul Gogarty said the absence of Fianna Fáil TDs beggared belief.
Of seven Fianna Fáil members just one, Cecilia Keaveney, attended briefly. Ms Keaveney then returned after attention had been drawn to the low attendance.
Afterwards, one school principal told RTÉ News they were stunned by the low attendance.

DogmaticLefty

Pherekydes wrote: »

His post looks OK to me.

He might be referring to the 'z' in 'ghettoized'. But if he/she keeps it up, they'll learn of to read the charter the hard way...

DogmaticLefty

Committee Chairman Paul Gogarty said the absence of Fianna Fáil TDs beggared belief.

They were probably having a liquid lunch over in Buswell's.

Pherekydes

walshb wrote: »

No link to the thread, also, his literacy is grand. I was referring to the 100 percent of students.

Oh. And what percentage of students starting primary school last September would you expect to be literate?

Super-Rush

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

He might be referring to the 'z' in 'ghettoized'. But if he/she keeps it up, they'll learn of to read the charter the hard way...

Firefox spell check Americanis(z)es everything.

BluesBerry

Member of my family had the misfortune of attending one of these schools he got held back big time because the teacher spent most time on children who's english was not good there was a lot more incidents as well but to personal to put up here but we couldn't get him out quick enough

between him and one other child they were they only Irish born children in the whole school granted it was only newly opened at the time but he had to be kept back a year when he was moved to another school for the amount he fell behind

Pittens

We have this debate periodically.

If a teacher's time is spent teaching English then native English speakers get less time. So they go elsewhere. so it goes.

oppenheimer1

Pittens wrote: »

We have this debate periodically.

If a teacher's time is spent teaching English then native English speakers get less time. So they go elsewhere. so it goes.

So this raises the question, should every immigrant be required to be able to speak english before they are permitted to work here?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

From what I've seen on the RTE News, it appears racism is alive and well in East Galway.

100% of students entering the school last September required language support.

Is this another personal attack on non-Catholic schools?

A few days back, you entereed a discussion in which you basically said that Catholic schools should be priortised and that the standard was better than in non-catholic schools.

Now you're moaning about inequality in the education systems?

Mike 1972

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

So this raises the question, should every immigrant be required to be able to speak english before they are permitted to work here?

Apart from the fact that English is supposedly only a "second language" in Ireland or that such measure would be a breach of EU law

NO

oppenheimer1

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Apart from the fact that English is supposedly only a "second language" in Ireland or that such measure would be a breach of EU law

NO

Well then be able to speak English and or Irish for Non EU migrants?

Pittens

or that such measure would be a breach of EU law

Which one?

ChocolateSauce

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

Oh right. Well that explains it.

Wait a sec, this wasn't the first thing that popped into your mind? You thought "Racism" instead of "Escaping Catholic Hegemony"?

Bloody hell.

Nodin

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

So this raises the question, should every immigrant be required to be able to speak english before they are permitted to work here?

They are the children of immigrants. Even the French give support to children of immigrants arriving in the school system.

DogmaticLefty

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Is this another personal attack on non-Catholic schools?

Fail. I knew someone would have to bring Catholicism into the discussion. *Waits for someone to mention the Brits*

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

A few days back, you entereed a discussion in which you basically said that Catholic schools should be priortised and that the standard was better than in non-catholic schools.

E-.

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Now you're moaning about inequality in the education systems?

Epic. Fail.

oppenheimer1

Nodin wrote: »

They are the children of immigrants. Even the French give support to children of immigrants arriving in the school system.

If english is spoken in the home, the children will have far less problems integrating into Irish society

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

We better not be going down the road of you nit-picking every post in order to sidestep the arguments presented and then contradicting yourself later on.

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

Fail. I knew someone would have to bring Catholicism into the discussion. *Waits for someone to mention the Brits*

... except I didn't bring catholicsm into it, I brought the other thread into it.

E-.

No attempt to argue the point. Unless there is another user called Dogmaticlefty...?

Epic. Fail.

No attmept to argue the point again. Or are you NOT moaning about inequality in the education system?

ChocolateSauce

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

Fail. I knew someone would have to bring Catholicism into the discussion. *Waits for someone to mention the Brits*


E-.


Epic. Fail.

Nice comeback there.

Nodin

Nodin wrote: »

They are the children of immigrants. Even the French give support to children of immigrants arriving in the school system.

Immigrants from where? I know a good few Irish/British/American/German people whose families moved to France and basically they had to learn French or GTFO. No special language support for them. My second cousins moved to Brittany when they were 5, 8 and 11 and they all spoke fluent French within three or four months. They simply had no choice. My family in the US have said that special ESL support and bilingual teaching is being dropped in their city. It was found to be much less effective than just dumping a child in an English speaking class and letting them pick it up. It sounds cruel but that's how you learn languages. You sink or swim. In most cases, teaching children English through their own language is just holding them back. ESL classes (offering English lessons taught in Chinese) were optional at my school and the kids who attended spoke worse English than those who opted to join the rest of us and hope for the best.

Steel Pump

Thats all very well and good, but how much can they bench press?

I was lifting steel like you wouldn't believe back in primary and racism was never an issue!! too busy pumpin

Mike 1972

Pittens wrote: »

Which one?

The one that provides for free movement of workers and doesnt have any "subject to language" clause

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

If english is spoken in the home, the children will have far less problems integrating into Irish society

Many immigrant families wouldnt speak English at home even if some/all of them are fluent in it and there is no way legally or practically they could be made to.

yellowellie

[quote=[Deleted User];64431083] My family in the US have said that special ESL support and bilingual teaching is being dropped in their city. It was found to be much less effective than just dumping a child in an English speaking class and letting them pick it up. It sounds cruel but that's how you learn languages. You sink or swim. [/QUOTE]
How can this work if the other children in their class don't have English as a first language either?

[quote=[Deleted User];64431083]
In most cases, teaching children English through their own language is just holding them back. ESL classes (offering English lessons taught in Chinese) were optional at my school and the kids who attended spoke worse English than those who opted to join the rest of us and hope for the best.[/QUOTE]

How many Irish Primary School teachers do you think can speak Polish, Chinese, Lithuanian, Indian, African languages or any other foreign languages?
Children are not taught English through their first language. They learn English through English. It just takes longer when the children are not immersed in a class with English speaking children.

:rolleyes:

Ickle Magoo

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Nice comeback there.

Yeah, nearly word for word the same reply that shamed him off another thread. I lol'd.

DogmaticLefty

Lads, if you could set aside your predjudices for the purposes of this thread, I'd really appreciate it. Please don't bring the Catholic Church/the British/your atheism into this discussion, thanks. You can have those kinds of debates over on the A&A forum that you are so intimately familiar with.

The situation in East Galway in untenable.

This is what happens when you have a corrupt planning system.

The fact that those TDs didn't show up at today's meeting is just applying salt to the wounds.

Social fire-fighting is a nightmare of a job.

Ickle Magoo

It's impossible not to bring religion into it.

Why do you think all these kids are ending up in a secular school? Why were those kids in Dublin having to be hurriedly built a secular school to attend when first day of school started and no school had accepted them?

When you have a school education system which is allowed to pick and choose students based on faith or able to use faith as a veiled excuse not to choose pupils so you don't need to invest in support for them, this is what happens.

Now you have a country with a history of immigration, having signed up to the EU and had foreign money thrown at it not really wanting immigrants - is it any wonder the TD's aren't touching it with a bargepole?!

DogmaticLefty

There isn't a teacher in this country who would deny a child an education. Catholic or otherwise. Please stop trying to use this thread to further your anti-theist agenda. Keep it on the A&A thread.

Mike 1972

Please don't bring the Catholic Church.....into this discussion,

You start a thread about educate together schools (as opposed to the ones owned by you-know-who) Imply racism on the part of unspecified individuals/organisations (Leaving it wide open to interpretation on whose part the racism -if any is on) and then ask us not to mention the organisation which owns the majority of schools in the state ????

WTF like ?

chopperbyrne

Nobody in this thread has been anti-Catholic or anti-British.

You were the one who for no apparent reason brought up the British thing and you are since the only one to mention it again.

Plus, you have already been given a good answer, which you seemed to accept, but have now since either forgotten about or decided to reject in favour of wild sensationalism and paranoia.

oppenheimer1

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Many immigrant families wouldnt speak English at home even if some/all of them are fluent in it and there is no way legally or practically they could be made to.

I am aware of that, thanks. There is also a much greater chance that they will speak english in the home if they have the ability to. Most migrants want to give their children the best start in life possible, fairly fundamental to that goal is speaking the spoken language of the locale.

DogmaticLefty

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I am aware of that, thanks. There is also a much greater chance that they will speak english in the home if they have the ability to. Most migrants want to give their children the best start in life possible, fairly fundamental to that goal is speaking the spoken language of the locale.

My mum is a teacher in an inner-city school with a large immigrant population. She has language support teachers available to her and the whole school seems to work really, really well. We pay a huge amount on the diplomatic corps. We should regard language support servies equally as important as it reflects on us as a society.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

Lads, if you could set aside your predjudices for the purposes of this thread, I'd really appreciate it. Please don't bring the Catholic Church/the British/your atheism into this discussion, thanks. You can have those kinds of debates over on the A&A forum that you are so intimately familiar with.

The situation in East Galway in untenable.

This is what happens when you have a corrupt planning system.

The fact that those TDs didn't show up at today's meeting is just applying salt to the wounds.

Social fire-fighting is a nightmare of a job.

But religious inequality is the cause.

There's a very easy solution here, but I don't think you're going to like it: throw EVERY school open to EVERY child irrespective of nationality or religion.

Then you get a much better balance of Irish/non Irish and catholic/non catholic kids in all classes and all school rather than herding the minorities together. Simple. Why is it so hard to understand? There's no prejudice, it's not athiest, it's common bloody sense!

biko

I fail to see how it constitutes racism that there are now so many non-English speaking children in schools that they cannot learn properly because of language barriers.
Is it racism that 5 schools in East Galway have 90% of pupils with immigrant parents?
Of course we (society/school/parents) need to address this. What do you suggest OP? Extra curricular language training? More teachers?

Genghiz Cohen

WTF is this thread about?

Also; Atheism, the Brits, Christians & Nazi.
Now that someone has actually brought them up, DogmaticLefty has an excuse to talk about them.

Ickle Magoo

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

There isn't a teacher in this country who would deny a child an education. Catholic or otherwise. Please stop trying to use this thread to further your anti-theist agenda. Keep it on the A&A thread.

That's just not true. Many schools turn away local pupils because they do not share the ethos of the school, you either are not old enough to have kids or you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Do you really think it is a complete coincidence that all these instances of non-Irish children just happen to be in ET schools?

I know you are completely blinkered to anything against religion but I'm not sure how you can't see the blindingly obvious issue here. The education system is flawed, the selection process for pupils is particularly flawed and is exactly what allows for the very thing you are complaining about.

Mike 1972

Magnus wrote: »

I fail to see how it constitutes racism that there are now so many non-English speaking children in schools that they cannot learn properly because of language barriers. Is it racism that 5 schools in East Galway have 90% of pupils with immigrant parents?

Institutional racism ?

Although not on the part of those the OP appeared* to be suggesting.

* The trollish ramblings being hard to decipher at times

TheZohanS

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

Please stop trying to use this thread to further your anti-theist agenda. Keep it on the A&A thread.

Don't back-seat mod.

Terry

BluesBerry wrote: »

Member of my family had the misfortune of attending one of these schools he got held back big time because the teacher spent most time on children who's english was not good there was a lot more incidents as well but to personal to put up here but we couldn't get him out quick enough

between him and one other child they were they only Irish born children in the whole school granted it was only newly opened at the time but he had to be kept back a year when he was moved to another school for the amount he fell behind

Indeed.

Anyway, I'm currently in Bhutan and the whole society is against me.
Nobody will speak my native language.

Should I
A. Integrate into the society and learn their language so that I can function as a member of their society?
B. Whine like a little bitch and scream racism because nobody here will go out of their way to learn a foreign language* just to accomodate me?


* Dear pedants. 99% of Irish people speak English as a first language. Therefore; STFU and get back into your outdated Republican trench.

JONJO THE MISER

Dirty Fordiners, first they took our Jobs then eat our swans and now there children are taking our schools.

I think that if there is a school that finds itself with a large number of non-english speaking pupils, then they really need to have separate classes for these pupils, it's most unfair for the "local" pupils to be held back.

Many of these children could easily have been born here but because of the culture of their families only the men have good english the women stay at home and keep house and have children - this only applies to some immigrants, the remainder will learn English themselves and bring up their children with some English.

No child should be in mainstream education until their language skills are sufficiently good enough to enable them to learn the subject without comprehension being a limiting factor.