Rumen Fluke Treatment

greysides

Efficacy is generally variable with a single dose of oxyclozanide but when two doses of 18.7 mg/kg were given three days apart, a less than 99 per cent efficacy was achieved against both immature and mature paramphistomes (Rolfe and Boray, 1987).

The French use Zanil at a double dose (20ml/kg) when bringing the cows in Dec and a clean-up dose 2 months later, or, wait till Feb and then give one double dose.

jocotty

greysides wrote: »

Efficacy is generally variable with a single dose of oxyclozanide but when two doses of 18.7 mg/kg were given three days apart, a less than 99 per cent efficacy was achieved against both immature and mature paramphistomes (Rolfe and Boray, 1987).

The French use Zanil at a double dose (20ml/kg) when bringing the cows in Dec and a clean-up dose 2 months later, or, wait till Feb and then give one double dose.

thanks for that - but a bit confused now. So, do you think my brother can dose the yearlings twice with the Zanil, at just 3 days appart?

would that be 10ml/kg each time?

just do it

jocotty wrote: »

thanks for that - but a bit confused now. So, do you think my brother can dose the yearlings twice with the Zanil, at just 3 days appart?

would that be 10ml/kg each time?

Yes it is recommended to dose twice 3 days apart.

1chippy

jocotty wrote: »

Vets were no good. Told him it was lack of feedin, but he knew well they were only talkin sh#te. . . . So he gave up on d vets. Twas the lab that told him wat it was for the finish. I was at home again today, and they still dieing. Up to 16 now . . . But they new ones dieing just an after effect . . They were damaged some how it the fluke gone from them
. Never saw anything like it.
Yearlings. All breeds- friesans and b blues mostly. Awfull stuff.

horrible situation to be in. i hope it ends there for him. i was talking to a couple of farmers along the shannon and they are seeing a serious amount of it this year.

greysides

jocotty wrote: »

thanks for that - but a bit confused now. So, do you think my brother can dose the yearlings twice with the Zanil, at just 3 days appart?

would that be 10ml/kg each time?

Especially where he's had problems I think it would be sensible to go for the double dose.

Personally, I'd go with Levafas so the dose would be more like 15mg/kg.

They are likely up end up '****ting through the eye of a needle' though.

There is a certain degree of risk management to be done with these treatments.

Neither Zanil or Levafas are licensed for use against RF in this country so doses and guidance are not given with that in mind. International, and experimental, experience is such that the recommended dose rates while in excess of manufacturers guidance, are safe. Though you do have a 'projectile effect'.

Once you go 'off label' with your treatments you are on your own regarding consequences.

So you have to bear that in mind when dosing. However, if those are the consequences OF DOSING, the consequences of NOT DOSING seem rather more dramatic.

Animals in dire condition are likely to suffer badly with the higher rates- both the disease and it's correction pushing them in a scouring/dehydrating/weakening direction. They might be best given the lower, 10 mg/kg, rate and the interval increased to allow them some chance at recovery before giving them a higher, 15mk/kg, rate at the next dose.

While Internationally this is not cutting edge stuff, for us with little prior experience we are (as I alluded to before) building up a ground swell of experience in RF, so we have to balance recommendations for healthy/routine dosing with treating sick animals. Some common-sense is needed.

Your brother may well need to look at the condition of his stock and see how they are now and decide if they have improved enough to tolerate another dose or whether he should allow the first dose to work a little longer before the second dose.

Or, if there is no improvement he may have to decide to ahead regardless of any potential consequences and cross his fingers. Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

I don't know if the three day separation has a pharmaceutical basis or is based on empirical evidence. But if they are improving but are judged not yet strong enough for a second dose, having witnessed the effect of the first dose, I'd be inclined to wait until they are judged fit.

This is an excerpt from a published article on the treatment of Rumen Fluke by Australian authors.

When a combination product of oxyclozanide and levamisole was used, oxyclozanide at 18.7 mg/kg reduced parasite numbers in the small intestine, abomasum and rumen-reticulum by 61 to 96.1%, 50.0 to 92.6% and 56.5 to 98.1%, respectively.

When 2 doses were given 3 days apart, oxyclozanide was 99.9%, 100% and 100% effective, respectively, in the above organs, and produced improvement in clinically affected calves.



This treatment elicited transient diarrhoea.

So there is a worthwhile benefit to the second treatment.

Black Smoke

Treated on Saturday with levafas diamond. Reading the label, it said cattle "may experience, a slight softening of the faeces"!!
Well what an understatement! Absolutely went through them like a vendaloo after a feed of bad Guinness! ****ting pure water.

Better this morning though!

just do it

Black Smoke wrote: »

Treated on Saturday with levafas diamond. Reading the label, it said cattle "may experience, a slight softening of the faeces"!!
Well what an understatement! Absolutely went through them like a vendaloo after a feed of bad Guinness! ****ting pure water.

Better this morning though!

Probably means they needed it? I doubt they'd scour if they'd no rumen fluke

Black Smoke

just do it wrote: »

Probably means they needed it? I doubt they'd scour if they'd no rumen fluke

I actually wondered if that was the case?

bob charles

just do it wrote: »

Probably means they needed it? I doubt they'd scour if they'd no rumen fluke

it doesnt mean they have rumen fluke, every animals dung after levafas diamond is water

Black Smoke

bob charles wrote: »

it doesnt mean they have rumen fluke, every animals dung after levafas diamond is water

Well three days later all have dried up fine, but at least half of them are coughing in spurts. I guess the levamisole ingredient in the levafas diamond is shifting some residual lung worms.
That is even though, the lot had been dosed twice this summer with Endospec 10 SC, and got one shot of Bimectin. I would have thought lung worm wouldnt have been an issue with this bunch!

Must seriously look at IBR vaccination on next years calves before turnout. Never vaccinated up to now.

pakalasa

Black Smoke wrote: »

..Must seriously look at IBR vaccination on next years calves before turnout. Never vaccinated up to now.

I'm thinking the same. I'll have evrything covered then, apart from Johnes, which I think might be next on AHI's agenda.

just do it

pakalasa wrote: »

Question - Can older cattle build up a resistance to rumen fluke. I've only ever seen it at home with younger adult cattle.

greysides wrote: »

Regarding immunity, I believe there is a build up of immunity among older animals but how complete it would be is another thing. Immunity is generally a 'relative', rather than an 'absolute' feature.

greysides wrote: »

Given that while Rumen fluke are not a new parasite to Ireland, by any stretch of the imagination, but ARE new in causing disease, we are all learning about them. Sometimes the hard way. Building up the ground swell of experience that already exists for Liver fluke and other diseases............

I would say that the most likely parasite to kill an animal at the moment, would be Rumen fluke. Because it can, and has.

My experience with RF indicates cattle build-up resistance with age. Brief history of me and RF. In 2009 I bought 10 freshly calved heifers in the Spring that were grazing land that had being flooded a number of times over that winter by the river it lead down to. 2 cows died in 2009 despite veterinary advise at the time, lab testing and a number of treatments for everything. In 2010 I'd one of this batch slowly deteriorating, chronic scour that temporarily improved with various treatments (liver fluke, stomach worms, Abs for Salmonella, Copper - deficiency common around here). Then I started ringing around a bit and someone suggested RF. Remember this only came onto everyones radar around that time and was not considered to cause fatalities. Another good vet I know rubbished the idea if was RF in 2009 but has subsequently changed his mind. So the 2010 cow despite all best efforts was dying. I gave her Levafas Diamond and that nearly killed her. Then ~3days later I noticed she looked ever so slightly better (you know when you get that hunch they've turned the corner). A day or two later she dried up and never looked back (although she required a further dose some time later). I then dosed the others and noticed an improvement.

2012 and 2 years later. Dosed all the cattle for liver fluke during the summer and decided to leave off dosing for RF and monitor to see how they went. I've bought in 4 first calvers this year and in Oct felt they were not thriving as well as they should, with one or two of them getting quite poorly. So I dosed these ones, and only these ones, with Levafas Diamond. They all scoured and one in particular went off her feed for a day. They've all improved subsequently and I'm confident they had clinical RF.

I'm not happy with my batch of weanlings despite regular ivermectin injections so they are next up for RF treatment, hopefully this weekend.

The main issue I see with RF is there is still no conclusive diagnostic test. I've picked out the quotes above as I've been meaning to reply for a while but just now getting the time. My experience (along with my vet) leads me to believe that cattle do build-up resistance to RF. Given this, and despite the knowledge that I know it is on my farm, I am slow to dose unless I feel it is warranted. This year has been particularly wet and I've a wet farm with a rich habitat for fresh water snails that act as the host for RF. I believe the bought-in cattle in 2009 brought it onto the farm and now it is here to stay. But a bit like red water, it something I need to be aware of on my farm and deal with it accordingly.

just do it

On reading back through this thread I noticed LC posted in 2010 but not recently. You'd miss him around the place, it's always good to have someone who sturs things up a bit with a well researched argument:).

blue5000

just do it wrote: »

On reading back through this thread I noticed LC posted in 2010 but not recently. You'd miss him around the place, it's always good to have someone who sturs things up a bit with a well researched argument:).

Was thinking the exact same thing myself today, even though he upset a few ppl from time to time, you do miss his contributions.

whelan1

blue5000 wrote: »

Was thinking the exact same thing myself today, even though he upset a few ppl from time to time, you do miss his contributions.

mmmmmmmmmm not really

pakalasa

Maybe it's the de-hydration, throught scouring, that kills the badly infected & weakened animals. Maybe no harm give them a re-hydration therapy when dosing them, if you are worried dthey might not be able to handle the Zanil.
I say MAYBE, in that I don't know for certain.

mf240

Would you be better to dose them on a full or empty stomach, do you know what I mean if the rumen was full of nice hayledge would the effect be less severe? am I raving again?

Edit just seen moovans post in the other thread seems hes of a similar opinion.

jocotty

1chippy wrote: »

horrible situation to be in. i hope it ends there for him. i was talking to a couple of farmers along the shannon and they are seeing a serious amount of it this year.

thanks lads for your help.

we dosed them for the second time, 3 days later - and they were all new cattle in the morning!

relief!

pakalasa

I was talking to a Vet today and got talking about Rumen Fluke. He said that they are finding a lot of cases where no eggs are being detected in the dung, yet the animal would be heavly infested with immatures in the rumen. Cattle showing all the typical signs like wasting away. Advice they are giving is to dose anyway (when the symptoms are there), up to 3 times in same cases.
They are seeing a lot of it this year because of the wet summer.
More or less backs up what people have been saying on here all along.

whelan1

so what is the youngest age to treat from?

pakalasa

Don't know. He did say that there were a lot of cases of weanlings having it this year. Also that some farmers were experiencing having to deal with fluke for the first time this year too.

deerejohn

mf240 wrote: »

Would you be better to dose them on a full or empty stomach, do you know what I mean if the rumen was full of nice hayledge would the effect be less severe? am I raving again?

Edit just seen moovans post in the other thread seems hes of a similar opinion.

We would always dose cows on an empty gut(before feeding in morning), supposed to get a far better kill as better contact with gut wall. Our diets always have a lot of straw so that probaly helps on the scour, and "probaly" the animals are not heavily infected to start with.

If i didnt have a diet feeder i would try and put animals on the driest feed available for 2 days, dose and keep them on it for 3/4 more days.

We housed 70 spring born heifer calves about 18 days ago, they wer`nt picking up as they should after 10 days with some having a scour of sorts.
These would have been well dosed throughout the "summer" with both oral doses and invermectin. Last friday week we dosed the batch with levasvas diamond, no great change during the week to the eye, i was off yesterday(friday) and when i saw them today the transformation was unreal, the best calves in the group(3pens) did`nt stand out anymore and only 1 or 2 calves looked to be struggling as opposed to the whole batch.

This has the potential to be a nightmare of a winter if problems such as this are not addressed early:eek:

saranac1

deerejohn wrote: »

We would always dose cows on an empty gut(before feeding in morning), supposed to get a far better kill as better contact with gut wall. Our diets always have a lot of straw so that probaly helps on the scour, and "probaly" the animals are not heavily infected to start with.

If i didnt have a diet feeder i would try and put animals on the driest feed available for 2 days, dose and keep them on it for 3/4 more days.

We housed 70 spring born heifer calves about 18 days ago, they wer`nt picking up as they should after 10 days with some having a scour of sorts.
These would have been well dosed throughout the "summer" with both oral doses and invermectin. Last friday week we dosed the batch with levasvas diamond, no great change during the week to the eye, i was off yesterday(friday) and when i saw them today the transformation was unreal, the best calves in the group(3pens) did`nt stand out anymore and only 1 or 2 calves looked to be struggling as opposed to the whole batch.

This has the potential to be a nightmare of a winter if problems such as this are not addressed early:eek:

Quite a lot of information on here which is great

I am going to house 70 weanlings in both slatted and straw bedded sheds this week.

All weanlings have been giving paramectin at 7 wks intervals since feb 2012

I intend to give each Weanling rispoval3 injection

Due to the wet weathered ground that they have come in off this year do you recommend I give them levastas diamond as well or wait and give them this upon turnout in march????

I just feel they are not achieving good weights at the moment....

whelan1

for those of you who dose milkers at drying off with fasinex or endospec etc and dose with zanil at calving , do you dose the heifers as well as the cows at calving, iykwim