Are the Private Sector simply Jealous of the Public Sector?

susiem

MysticalRain wrote: »

Libraries shouldn't be treated as creches or day centers for junkies. I think most city center libraries should have at least one security guard on the premises to deal with any potential problems.

We had a security guard from a private company but he was the first hit of the cutbacks, now we are expected to confront the issues he would have dealt with.

Red_Marauder

I have worked both in the private sector and the public sector (at the same time, on the same days) and I have to say, I work an awful lot longer and harder in the private sector for the same money.

So in that respect, I am somewhat jealous of those who do my job in the public sector all the time, yes. Personally, it's more than about money because I have a greater variety of work and career options in the private sector, but yes, the pay can be an issue.

newtown4

Saadyst wrote: »

Public sector workers don't seem to realise however, that it is the private sector that pay their wages, and the weaker the private sector is, then the weaker the public sector will become. Public sector is not (and should not be) something that makes profit, so this will always be the case.

I find it hilarious when public sector workers mention "paying taxes".

you are a most ungrateful fool only for the ps there would be no hospitals security street cleaning etc we all pay taxes spose u voted ff the what they are ripping all off us get alife

dunsandin

Really, Ireland is a medium sized city. Like Birmingham for example. We have a population of c.a 4.5 milllion persons. Our laughably innacurate and downright dishonest unemployment figures list the live register at 450,000.(That happily excludes all those who have had to emigrate and the former self-employed who can neither register nor get dole- all them blockies, carpenters, plumbers and mortgage advisers who were once self-employed, now are invisible.) How many does that leave as in full time employment, excluding kids, college students, stay at home mums, the ill and infirm, pensioners, public sector workers, tax exiles and those in the black economy. For optimism sake, lets say 1 million tax paying workers.
How in the name of podge and rodge can 1 million tax payers hope to support 300,000 public service operatives (I hesitate to use the word workers, because from what I have seen, they would not know what a hard days work was if they saw it on telly.) When I have been hurt working(happens a lot) and end up in A&E, I marvel at what a shower of useless, feckless wasters those nurses and doctors are. They spend their time walking around with clipboards and chatting to their mates. we all say how great they are because we are terrified if we don't, and we're sick, they will ignore us, but really, they're fairly crap. Our Council "workers" are a pack of wasters, more interested in pulling overtime and strokes than doing a proper days work - just look at how they fill pot-holes, a child would do better. Our teachers spend more time on holidays and at "Meetings" than they do teaching - though I forgive them that because they have to put up with our insufferable little princes and princesses all day, so who wouldnt want a break. Those charged with administrative work in our govt offices are as efficent as a chocolate fireguard, except for revenue, who must have been trained by the gestapo, because by golly, they dont mess about. I dont know about being jealous of them, I am sort of saddened that all they want is to put in the easiest, shortest working day, waste their lives, in the hope of a secure pension - would it not be better to follow your own path, love your work and do your genuine best, and reach retirement worn out, but happy, doing your own thing. Anyway, there are too many of the grey, boring sods, IMOO(no H)

bryaner

dunsandin wrote: »

Really, Ireland is a medium sized city. Like Birmingham for example. We have a population of c.a 4.5 milllion persons. Our laughably innacurate and downright dishonest unemployment figures list the live register at 450,000.(That happily excludes all those who have had to emigrate and the former self-employed who can neither register nor get dole- all them blockies, carpenters, plumbers and mortgage advisers who were once self-employed, now are invisible.) How many does that leave as in full time employment, excluding kids, college students, stay at home mums, the ill and infirm, pensioners, public sector workers, tax exiles and those in the black economy. For optimism sake, lets say 1 million tax paying workers.
How in the name of podge and rodge can 1 million tax payers hope to support 300,000 public service operatives (I hesitate to use the word workers, because from what I have seen, they would not know what a hard days work was if they saw it on telly.) When I have been hurt working(happens a lot) and end up in A&E, I marvel at what a shower of useless, feckless wasters those nurses and doctors are. They spend their time walking around with clipboards and chatting to their mates. we all say how great they are because we are terrified if we don't, and we're sick, they will ignore us, but really, they're fairly crap. Our Council "workers" are a pack of wasters, more interested in pulling overtime and strokes than doing a proper days work - just look at how they fill pot-holes, a child would do better. Our teachers spend more time on holidays and at "Meetings" than they do teaching - though I forgive them that because they have to put up with our insufferable little princes and princesses all day, so who wouldnt want a break. Those charged with administrative work in our govt offices are as efficent as a chocolate fireguard, except for revenue, who must have been trained by the gestapo, because by golly, they dont mess about. I dont know about being jealous of them, I am sort of saddened that all they want is to put in the easiest, shortest working day, waste their lives, in the hope of a secure pension - would it not be better to follow your own path, love your work and do your genuine best, and reach retirement worn out, but happy, doing your own thing. Anyway, there are too many of the grey, boring sods, IMOO(no H)

I agree in what your saying to some extent but can you remember the public

sector being mentioned 5-10 years ago? You seem to be another sheep falling

into the governments large hole for passing the buck, in the hope of a smoke

screen to cover their own serious mismanagement. Dead wood must go but

there are a serious amount of good PS workers out there for small money..

bryaner

Red_Marauder wrote: »

I have worked both in the private sector and the public sector (at the same time, on the same days) and I have to say, I work an awful lot longer and harder in the private sector for the same money.

So in that respect, I am somewhat jealous of those who do my job in the public sector all the time, yes. Personally, it's more than about money because I have a greater variety of work and career options in the private sector, but yes, the pay can be an issue.

Same money roflmfao

mossfort

i dont think the private sector are jealous of the public sector but are annoyed at the level of inefficiency in the public sector.
there are a lot of public sector workers who have been in their jobs for years and seem to think that they should be looked up to and that they are far superior to anybody else.
as was said in earlier posts do we need all these public servants when in a lot of departments their workload has more than halved since the decline in the economy?
i think there is a lack of proper management in the public sector that pushes for efficiency and results.

dunsandin

bryaner wrote: »

I agree in what your saying to some extent but can you remember the public

sector being mentioned 5-10 years ago? You seem to be another sheep falling

into the governments large hole for passing the buck, in the hope of a smoke

screen to cover their own serious mismanagement. Dead wood must go but

there are a serious amount of good PS workers out there for small money..

Sheep. Oh back up that bus buddy. Don't list me with any livestock mate. Could you please list those PS workers that are both good, and on small money. I am all wooly ears. What i say about the ps stood ten years ago, and still stands, the recession means nothing but more work to me, I dont care how bad the economy gets, what I said about the pssers stood ten years ago, and still stands. Sheep...Ha ha ha ha.

bryaner

dunsandin wrote: »

Sheep. Oh back up that bus buddy. Don't list me with any livestock mate. Could you please list those PS workers that are both good, and on small money. I am all wooly ears.

Oh I can no problem, I personally know a few people that work for local councils

and good hours for their wage, you might be thinking of the old school council

heads but anyone on a recent contract are poles apart from their old

counterparts.
.
Again as i said there is

a good deal of dead wood and it needs cleaning rapid..

dunsandin

I would love to say they are good, but in my experience, they are not= the old expression, "if I gave you E10,000 to do that days job, could you do it faster?", "Oh yeah they reply"
"Well do it then, but you aint getting that 10,000"

Ps workers do the minimum, for what the govt will pay. Are they underpaid, who isn't. Are they value for money compared to the private sector? Come on, pull the other one. I actually sweat when I work, do they?

bryaner

dunsandin wrote: »

I would love to say they are good, but in my experience, they are not= the old expression, "if I gave you E10,000 to do that days job, could you do it faster?", "Oh yeah they reply"
"Well do it then, but you aint getting that 10,000"

Ps workers do the minimum, for what the govt will pay. Are they underpaid, who isn't. Are they value for money compared to the private sector? Come on, pull the other one. I actually sweat when I work, do they?

When I have work I work dam hard and get the job done I'd imagine the same

as yourself, I'm just talking about the friends I know in the PS and they earn

their €420 a week..

changes

mossfort wrote: »

as was said in earlier posts do we need all these public servants when in a lot of departments their workload has more than halved since the decline in the economy?

And some have probably doubled there workload also.

mossfort

changes wrote: »

And some have probably doubled there workload also.

no they have not doubled their workload they just take longer to process the backlog.
they still clock in and out at the same time and if your referring to the department of social welfare the waiting times for people seeking unemployment benefit speaks for itself.

changes

mossfort wrote: »

no they have not doubled their workload they just take longer to process the backlog.
they still clock in and out at the same time and if your referring to the department of social welfare the waiting times for people seeking unemployment benefit speaks for itself.

I don't think they can win really.

I've read time and time again about the wasters in the PS and how underworked they are. I would hazard a guess that the staff in the social welfare offices are working flat out all day trying to get through the backlog.

Other departments that see an increase in workload at times of resession are medical cards offices and community welfare officers.

dunsandin

changes wrote: »

I don't think they can win really.

I've read time and time again about the wasters in the PS and how underworked they are. I would hazard a guess that the staff in the social welfare offices are working flat out all day trying to get through the backlog.

Other departments that see an increase in workload at times of resession are medical cards offices and community welfare officers.

Would you care to define your version of "working flat out", I laugh a lot when I hear that!!!!

mossfort

changes wrote: »

I don't think they can win really.

I've read time and time again about the wasters in the PS and how underworked they are. I would hazard a guess that the staff in the social welfare offices are working flat out all day trying to get through the backlog.

Other departments that see an increase in workload at times of resession are medical cards offices and community welfare officers.

do you honestly believe that workers in the social welfare offices are working flat out all day processing claims?
they still have the same hours and ridicously long lunch breaks.
if this work was contracted out to the private sector there would be a far faster output because they would be getting paid by results and not by just putting in the basic work hours per week.
the same applies to community welfare offices they put in the same hours as before and work at the same pace as they have always worked.
i think if their workload had doubled we would be hearing about it in the form of strikes and go slows etc.

changes

mossfort wrote: »

do you honestly believe that workers in the social welfare offices are working flat out all day processing claims?
they still have the same hours and ridicously long lunch breaks.
if this work was contracted out to the private sector there would be a far faster output because they would be getting paid by results and not by just putting in the basic work hours per week.
the same applies to community welfare offices they put in the same hours as before and work at the same pace as they have always worked.
i think if their workload had doubled we would be hearing about it in the form of strikes and go slows etc.

They get 1 hour for lunch and they shouldn't be taking anymore than that.

dunsandin

1 hour for lunch, 6 hours for scratching their holes, and 1 hour to moan about having to be there, and them so important. Sure dont we appreciate how hard they graft????

irishh_bob

dunsandin wrote: »

1 hour for lunch, 6 hours for scratching their holes, and 1 hour to moan about having to be there, and them so important. Sure dont we appreciate how hard they graft????

of course we do , blair horan never stops reminding us how hard they toil

Paulzx

dunsandin wrote: »

1 hour for lunch, 6 hours for scratching their holes, and 1 hour to moan about having to be there, and them so important. Sure dont we appreciate how hard they graft????

"They" is a great little word isn't it. Its so easy to use it to describe 300,000 employees. You can use it to lump them all into the one box and castigate everyone in the one sentance.

There are plenty of anti Public service posters on here who at least use debate and sometimes fact to try and engineer their arguements.

Unfortunately it has become more common for bitter little assholes to post complete rants that bear no resemblance to reasoned debate.

The forum itself has gone to the dogs due to individual posters like yourself stirring up ****.

dunsandin

Ok, I take your point, that was a generalisation, and was probably a tad bitter. So, to soften my cough a little, consider this. The next time you or your family are in the A&E, look at how hard the junior Doctors work - they work hard, no question. Look at how hard the nursing staff both in A&E and on the general wards work - hard, long hours, and poor pay and conditions. I also reckon the average Guarda puts in a solid shift, as do quite a lot of the lower levels in other PS services. Now though, raise your view a rung higher - are you going to call me a bitter a-hol€ if I question the work ethic and general efficency and competence of the middle and uppper management? Do our consultants earn their keep? Do our higher education staff do their bit? I Think perhaps that to say the PS is good value for money is to ignore the entire rest of the developed world- how do pay levels compare to our neighbours? Would you say our roads, schools and services are the equal of those in the rest of Europe? I know I'm just a bitter, twisted fool who only posts here to lower the learned tone, but are you totally serious in your assertion? Just for balance, there are several PS workers in both my family and the circle of people who tolerate my bitter, twisted, warped mind who I call friends, and to a man and a woman, they are just doing the minimum to get by until they can retire, while still young enough, and with a secure pension, to do what they really want. They are all decent people, but the culture of the job is what it is, and its infectious. I would love to bury you with specific examples, but I have other things to apply my bitterness to-its needed elsewhere.

dunsandin

The forum itself has gone to the dogs due to individual posters like yourself stirring up ****.[/QUOTE]
At least im only being accused of dragging a topic to the dogs, as opposed to dragging the whole country there - that accolade must go to our esteemed leaders and captains of finance.(Notice that I didn't say the PS- they are all employees, and any deficency in their performance can only be blamed on their bosses - the boss sets the tone, it radiates downward.)

97i9y3941

there seems to be no recession in the public sector,ok we have cut backs in recruitments and the levys but dont have much jobs shedding or much aggressive wage cutting like in private sector..

Paulzx

dunsandin wrote: »

Ok, I take your point, that was a generalisation, and was probably a tad bitter. So, to soften my cough a little, consider this. The next time you or your family are in the A&E, look at how hard the junior Doctors work - they work hard, no question. Look at how hard the nursing staff both in A&E and on the general wards work - hard, long hours, and poor pay and conditions. I also reckon the average Guarda puts in a solid shift, as do quite a lot of the lower levels in other PS services. .

I know exactly what goes on in A and E's. I'm a fulltime Firefighter/Paramedic so spend plenty of time in them. My issue is not with people critisizing the public service. It's the gross generalisations used to encompass everyone.

There are wasters in every walk of life and the public service is no different. There are also plenty of us that put in our shift and provide a service to the best of our ability. I get paid a wage to do a job. I earn this wage. Plenty of posters use the word entitled in derogatory way to describe public servants attitude to their pay. I prefer to use the word earned when i talk about my wages.

Scofflaw

dunsandin wrote: »

1 hour for lunch, 6 hours for scratching their holes, and 1 hour to moan about having to be there, and them so important. Sure dont we appreciate how hard they graft????

Infracted, banned seven days for flame bait post.

Unfortunately it has become more common for bitter little assholes to post complete rants that bear no resemblance to reasoned debate.

The forum itself has gone to the dogs due to individual posters like yourself stirring up ****.

Infracted for response to flame bait.

of course we do , blair horan never stops reminding us how hard they toil

Infracted for supporting flame bait.

People, please use the report function for posts like dunsandin's. We all know they're intended to get a rise out of people - please don't respond directly, or you too will have to be infracted, because those are the rules, and they're there for a reason.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Welease

Paulzx wrote: »

I know exactly what goes on in A and E's. I'm a fulltime Firefighter/Paramedic so spend plenty of time in them. My issue is not with people critisizing the public service. It's the gross generalisations used to encompass everyone.

There are wasters in every walk of life and the public service is no different. There are also plenty of us that put in our shift and provide a service to the best of our ability. I get paid a wage to do a job. I earn this wage. Plenty of posters use the word entitled in derogatory way to describe public servants attitude to their pay. I prefer to use the word earned when i talk about my wages.

Some quick googling suggests top pay band for paramedics in the UK is ~25K (STG) and in Ireland it's ~35K (Euro) without taking into account unsociable hours and other benefits such as pensions.

"Earned" is an interesting concept. I don't think anyone doubt's that you guys work hard to provide this service, but from a value for money perspective based on the assumption that your pay and benefits are superior to other European nations (which is the case for most public/private sector jobs in Ireland... see this is not a specific attack on the public sector ), what specifically do you do that grants you the right to earn more than your European counterparts?

I think we need to start looking at "earned" in those specific terms.. If we don't do anything more than others, then we should not be expecting to be paid more than others. (and thats a WE not a you)

irishh_bob

dunsandin wrote: »

Ok, I take your point, that was a generalisation, and was probably a tad bitter. So, to soften my cough a little, consider this. The next time you or your family are in the A&E, look at how hard the junior Doctors work - they work hard, no question. Look at how hard the nursing staff both in A&E and on the general wards work - hard, long hours, and poor pay and conditions. I also reckon the average Guarda puts in a solid shift, as do quite a lot of the lower levels in other PS services. Now though, raise your view a rung higher - are you going to call me a bitter a-hol€ if I question the work ethic and general efficency and competence of the middle and uppper management? Do our consultants earn their keep? Do our higher education staff do their bit? I Think perhaps that to say the PS is good value for money is to ignore the entire rest of the developed world- how do pay levels compare to our neighbours? Would you say our roads, schools and services are the equal of those in the rest of Europe? I know I'm just a bitter, twisted fool who only posts here to lower the learned tone, but are you totally serious in your assertion? Just for balance, there are several PS workers in both my family and the circle of people who tolerate my bitter, twisted, warped mind who I call friends, and to a man and a woman, they are just doing the minimum to get by until they can retire, while still young enough, and with a secure pension, to do what they really want. They are all decent people, but the culture of the job is what it is, and its infectious. I would love to bury you with specific examples, but I have other things to apply my bitterness to-its needed elsewhere.

nurses are extremley well paid and have very good conditions

pearcider

Welease wrote: »

Some quick googling suggests top pay band for paramedics in the UK is ~25K (STG) and in Ireland it's ~35K (Euro) without taking into account unsociable hours and other benefits such as pensions.

You are underestimating the UK salary by distorting the facts but I'm not sure why. I reckon tey get at least 30% more than that actually as you're not counting the location living allowance they get (25% of salary for London for example) nor including the currency differential. I reckon the UK medics are actually paid more - if you include these. Not having a go at you but your facts are wrong.

Godge

Having read through ten pages of comment (some of it bile), I would have to conclude that the answer to the question posed by the OP is YES.

Jealousy and envy were always lurking beneath the surface of the Celtic Tiger. The collapse in the economy has brought them to the surface.

What is surprising is that it has become a private/public sector divide. When you look at the private sector you see IT companies and pharmaceutical companies still paying pay increases. You also see banks paying bonuses and pay increases as well. AIB paid the 3.5% that public sector workers were denied before those public sector workers suffered the pension levy and pay cut.

The conclusion I have is that the anger among those suffering (and they are in both sectors) has not yet subsided enough to allow for a rational debate.

Welease

pearcider wrote: »

You are underestimating the UK salary by distorting the facts but I'm not sure why. I reckon tey get at least 30% more than that actually as you're not counting the location living allowance they get (25% of salary for London for example) nor including the currency differential. I reckon the UK medics are actually paid more - if you include these. Not having a go at you but your facts are wrong.

The point is a general one about the high costs of wages in Ireland with no additional value being provided. So don't get bogged down in the specifics .. It's pretty much well understood now that we are a high cost economy.

I am just quoting what was available on the web after a quick search.. I don't claim to be an expert.. But since you are categorically stating I am wrong, and that you reckon UK medics get up to 30% more, can you provide some evidence (remebering not all medics live in London).

The sites I got info from..
http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details/Default.aspx?Id=132
NHS Paramedic Pay is Band 5 - Band 5 pay ranges from 20.7K to 26.8K (at today rate of exchange that is 23.5K - 30.4K)

For Ireland the salary rates quoted were..
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/20673684/Working-as-a-National-Ambulance-Service-Paramedic
After qualification 29.7K Euro - 37.1K Euro. including long service increments (numebrs quoted does not include shift, weekend or public holiday pay which can increase salary by 6-8K
Leading Paramedic - 30.4K - 42.5K and extra 9.7K is paid to those who complete Advanced Paramedia training program..