Atheism and Science

Turtwig

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

cos a lifetime divided by the lifetime of the universe tends to nothing.

Unity actually.

DogmaticLefty

Malty_T wrote: »

understand what atheism actually is.

It's very hard when one atheist has a different opinion to the next and you have no formal hierarchy to check the facts with. All you can do is observe the behaviour of the swarm of bees and base your response to the threat of atheism in society on their macroscopic behaviour.

Turtwig

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

It's very hard when one atheist has a different opinion to the next and you have no formal hierarchy to check the facts with.

Yay, you're finally learning something!!!
*clap* *clap*
Very hard to class that as a religion now, innit?

DogmaticLefty

Malty_T wrote: »

Yay, you're finally learning something!!!
*clap* *clap*
Very hard to class that as a religion now, innit?

Great. So how do I know you're not just making it up as you go along? That's a big problem in any discussion.

iUseVi

^^^^

Its so beautiful. What art.

iUseVi

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

Great. So how do I know you're not just making it up as you go along?

Making what up? Theres nothing to make up. We disbelieve in gods. What is there to make up? Symphonies, a recipe for a chocolate pudding, seriously what are you looking for?

DogmaticLefty

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

Atheism is an ad-hoc network of belief from which patterns emerge. Most religions are organised in top-down hierarchies.

No it's not. It's a position on one issue.
Atheists do not have a Dogma or single structured set of morals and ethics or festivals and holidays or rituals or holy texts or a clergy or tithing or a singlar belief in an afterlife.
You know the things that religions have.

But I suppose it makes a better strawman (and thus be a better troll) to say atheism is a religion.

I suppose it's be too much to ask for examples of those?

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

The denial of the Divine is another common trait amongst atheists.

Kind of is, considering it's the only common trait of atheists.

You may as well say "communism is a denial of free markets" as if it's some startling new revelation.

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

When a Christian looks into a telescope he sees God's beauty. When an atheist looks at the sky, he pulls out his calculator and gets to work on all the problems he doesn't know the answer to yet. Might as well top yourselves now cos a lifetime divided by the lifetime of the universe tends to nothing.

You can always tell when someone hasn't seen Carl Sagan.

DogmaticLefty

iUseVi wrote: »

Making what up? Theres nothing to make up. We disbelieve in gods. What is there to make up? Symphonies, a recipe for a chocolate pudding, seriously what are you looking for?

You put your faith in the scientific method. The human brain severely is limited. As is human life. My faith lies in something much, much bigger.

Ickle Magoo

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

Atheism is an ad-hoc network of belief from which patterns emerge.

No, it's a lack of belief in god(s). You may dearly wish it to be something more so you can crow bar that square peg of reality into the round hole of your preconceptions - but that's what atheism is.

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

Most religions are organised in top-down hierarchies.

Uh-huh. And you think the hierarchy in atheism is? Nothing to pray to or idolise, different people who share a vocal lack of belief in a god which affects absolutely no other aspect of their life, people who have no belief in a god which affects absolutely no other aspect of their life, they live by no atheistic tenants and have no rules...and you think that's an organised hierarchy?

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

It's very all too convenient for atheists to just throw their hands in the air and exclaim "but we're not a religion", "there is no common teaching", etc. I see it all the time.

You may think it convenient, inconvenient, down right rude - that doesn't change the facts of the matter, I'm afraid.

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

I don't know how anyone can base their lives around such uncertainty. The denial of the Divine is another common trait amongst atheists. When a Christian looks into a telescope he sees God's beauty. When an atheist looks at the sky, he pulls out his calculator and gets to work on all the problems he doesn't know the answer to yet. Might as well top yourselves cos a lifetime divided by the lifetime of the universe tends to nothing.

There you go again. Denial of the "divine". :rolleyes:

It's not a denial of anything. I have never, ever, even considered that "god" exists as being in the realms of possibility - ever. I don't take your claims of there being a god and deliberately deny that you speak the truth, I take your claims and hear no truth in them. There is no evidence for a god, no proof there is a god, I have no faith, I cannot, do not HAVE to believe in something. I feel no need to substitute everything I don't know or mankind can't answer yet with "god did it". I find the ability to conjure an omnipotent being out of thin air and proclaim him the maker of all we see around us based on an ancient text and historical ignorance as utterly bizarre.

I see a universe that is absolutely spectacular, when I look at the sky I think of everything we have learnt in the past 2000 years and how much I'd love to be a fly on the wall when another 2000 have past. I don't see a need to crowbar in some creator to see beauty or have to have a belief in an afterlife to be a good person who works towards having a worthwhile life.

You may wish that being a theist somehow makes your life more complete or makes you special in some way because thats what you want to believe and it justifies the lengths you go to for your faith but, like many other of your assumptions, you couldn't be farther from the truth.

DogmaticLefty

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

You put your faith in the scientific method.

Why put faith in something that's been shown to work pretty well.

Also it's been shown not all atheists are fans of the scientific method.

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

The human brain severely is limited. As is human life. My faith lies in something much, much bigger.

And how do you know that you faith and what you have faith in aren't products of your limited brain?

Lucky the scientific method doesn't rely on the human brain and excludes the truth-obscuring effects of the brain.

Flamed Diving

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

You put your faith in the scientific method. The human brain severely is limited. As is human life. My faith lies in something much, much bigger.

One brain is limited. Therefore, humans work together. And guess what? We record our findings! Then we review and revise. Knowledge then accumulates exponentially.

for 5 points who can guess what I am describing?

DogmaticLefty

King Mob wrote: »

Atheists do not have a Dogma or single structured set of morals and ethics

I know. You organise in an ad-hoc manner. You'd think you'd go about things in a more efficient manner. Then again, plenty of atheist organisations are emerging all across the world - some even lobby government. Sure before you know it, you'll have a hall on every street corner offering all kinds of sermons and rituals to your members. You might even mimic the great St John and have your own evangelisation corps.

iUseVi

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

You put your faith in the scientific method. The human brain severely is limited. As is human life. My faith lies in something much, much bigger.

I don't know where you got that from, but the scientific method is bigger than one human brain and the mistakes it can make. A valid scientific theory will be backed up by experiments that are repeatable by anyone. Anybody could prove pythagoras' theorem if they chose to, assuming euclidean space with three dimensions etc. All humans could die out and hundreds of years later aliens could prove the same theorem, its truth does not depend on the fallibility of a human brain. Your faith is baseless, and cannot be backed up but repeatable experiments - which is why it is nonsense. You accept that the brain is limited, how do you know your "feeling of god" is true?

DogmaticLefty

Flamed Diving wrote: »

One brain is limited. Therefore, humans work together. And guess what? We record our findings! Then we review and revise. Knowledge then accumulates exponentially.

A fine example of ad-hoc atheism.

So how many human brains do you think it will take before you find out everything there is to know?

DogmaticLefty

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

I know. You organise in an ad-hoc manner. You'd think you'd go about things in a more efficient manner. Then again, plenty of atheist organisations are emerging all across the world - some even lobby government. Sure before you know it, you'll have a hall on every street corner offering all kinds of sermons and rituals to your members. You might even mimic St John and have your own evangelisation wing.

So then, no you can't provide a single example I asked for?

Instead you're going to concoct some silly slippery slope?

I think I might have to play logical fallacy bingo.

Turtwig

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

You put your faith in the scientific method. The human brain severely is limited. As is human life. My faith lies in something much, much bigger.

Perhaps you missed this in the previous thread:

Lack of belief in God(s).
The concept shouldn't even exist ffs.

You can still be an atheist and be a spiritualist.
You can still be an atheist and be buddhist.
You can still be an atheist and be Christian! (Bizarre I know- But If you follow Jesus..)
You can still be an atheist and be pro-life.
You can still be an atheist and be anti-life.
You can still be an atheist and be a pacifist.
You can still be an atheist and be anti-science.

They can believe the sky is a carpet painted by a fairy.
They can believe that evolution is a lie!
They can believe that the sun is orange marble and that earth is hollow.

All they have to do to be atheist is:
Lack belief in God(s).

DogmaticLefty

Malty_T wrote: »

All they have to do be atheist is:
Lack belief in God(s).

Why do you have to hold so many seminars and write so many annoying books if that's the only message you bring to the world?

Can't you just tattoo it to your forehead? It would make life much easier for the majority of the population.

Turtwig

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

Why do you have to hold so many seminars and write so many annoying books if that's the only message you bring to the world?

Because many atheists happen to be humanists. I'm not one so your question doesn't apply to me.

DogmaticLefty

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

Why do you have to hold so many seminars and write so many annoying books if that's the only message you bring to the world?

Because they are interesting?

Why is there so many sci-fi books and conventions in the world?

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

Can't you just tattoo it to your forehead? It would make life much easier for the majority of the population.

Why? So we can be herded into camps?

Oh look I can use the slippery slope fallacy too.

DogmaticLefty

King Mob wrote: »

So then, no you can't provide a single example I asked for?

If you bothered to read my posts, you wouldn't be making a public fool of yourself. Post #90. Search for 'common trait amongst atheists'.

Ickle Magoo

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

Why do you have to hold so many seminars and write so many annoying books if that's the only message you bring to the world?

Can't you just tattoo it to your forehead? It would make life much easier for the majority of the population.

Public fool, lol. Hello pot, I'm black kettle!

The majority of the world are not catholic, perhaps you would tattoo the pope onto your own forehead so you wouldn't be a complete hypocrite?

Why do theists constantly bash on about their faith if the only message is there is a god and to try to be nice?

iUseVi

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

Why do you have to hold so many seminars and write so many annoying books if that's the only message you bring to the world?

Can't you just tattoo it to your forehead? It would make life much easier for the majority of the population.

Heres a tip. Don't buy the books, don't go to the seminars.

If all you have to complain about that you couldn't possibly avoid is a single bus ad, then you've got a very weak case.

Actually no, you've got no case at all.

DogmaticLefty

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

If you bothered to read my posts, you wouldn't be making a public fool of yourself. Post #90. Search for 'common trait amongst atheists'.

You're certainly one to talk about not reading posts.

And I did read that post.
Didn't contain any examples of anything I asked for.

Turtwig

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

Why do you have to hold so many seminars and write so many annoying books if that's the only message you bring to the world?

To pre-empt Dade's response to this.:pac:

Why don't you go and ask the vegetarian forum why they feel the need to have seminars and write books?

Sam Vimes

I think anyone who comes on the internet to bad mouth science in an attempt to promote their own personal nonsense should have all their modern conveniences that science has given them such as the computer they're typing on confiscated until they learn some respect

DogmaticLefty

King Mob wrote: »

You're certainly one to talk about not reading posts.

And I did read that post.
Didn't like the answer I found.

Fixed that for you.

DogmaticLefty

Sam Vimes wrote: »

I think anyone who comes on the internet to bad mouth science in an attempt to promote their own personal nonsense should have all their modern conveniences that science has given them such as the computer they're typing on confiscated until they learn some respect

I am a scientist. :P

iUseVi

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

Fixed that for you.

Umm no, theres nothing in that post regarding any examples whatsoever.

Ickle Magoo

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

I am a scientist. :P

Clearly one of the rare breed of scientists who can compartmentalise logic/abandon logic depending on which hat you are donning.

Turtwig

DogmaticLefty wrote: »

I am a scientist. :P

Who said that
[latex]\frac{A}{A} \Rightarrow 0[/latex]:p
When A is non zero.