Starting Out - What you need to get/do.

Evil Phil

This thread is for general advice for newbies and those interested in getting involved in the sport.

se conman

If you intend to take up canoeing or kayaking , the very first thing that you need to get is a VERY HEALTY RESPECT FOR WATER.Water can provide endless hours of fun and exercise but if taken for granted , nothing will bite you in the ass as quick.Always think safety and enjoy your paddling.

KenHy

The Irish Canoe Union have this to say!

ICU Introductory courses!

Getting Started in Canoeing
Canoeing / kayaking is a wide-ranging and multi-faceted sport enjoyed by people of all ages, backgrounds and abilities across the country. To find out more about the different types of recreational and competitive canoeing please see the canoeing disciplines section.

There are typically two routes into paddling, through a club (see here for list of clubs) or by enrolling in an introductory course. These training courses either run over a weekend or a series of evening sessions.

Various clubs around the country run beginner’s courses to entice new members. In addition to this, the Irish Canoe Union has its own Training centre on the river Liffey in Dublin. Courses take place from the Centre throughout the spring & summer months.

To find out about courses outside the Dublin area, please consult our list of other course providers.

What is covered on an introductory course?
Most introductory courses cover skills from the level 1&2 skills awards in general purpose kayaks. You learn how to control your boat going forwards and backwards, how to turn and move sideways and what to do if you capsize. Safety is of paramount importance and instructors cover topics such as the basic safety rules of canoeing and appropriate safety equipment.

Most of the time on an introductory course is spent on flat water but towards the end you may get a chance to experience the thrill of some white water on weirs or small rapids.

What equipment do I need to start canoeing?
Most introductory courses provide all the equipment you need – kayak, paddle, wetsuit, waterproof paddle jacket, buoyancy aid, helmet and a spraydeck to keep the water out of your boat. This gives you an opportunity to try out different types of equipment and to decide if you really like the sport before making a big investment.

The best way to continue kayaking after your introductory course is to join a club.



The Difference Between a Canoe and a Kayak...

A frequently asked question!

A kayak is a boat with a closed cockpit, where the paddler uses a paddle with 2 blades.


A canoe is a boat with an open design, where the paddler uses a single bladed paddle. Canoeists often kneel, rather than sit.

Both styles of boat have 1 and 2 person versions, but a canoe generally holds two people, while a kayak usually holds just one.

However…
In some countries (Ireland included), canoeing has become a generic term for both activities and since kayaking is the more common type of craft, the terms often get mixed up.

All introductory courses run from the ICU Training Centre are done in kayaks!

thetonynator

While the ICU are great for running courses, there is very little follow up afterwards, try join a club if at all possible!!!

cyrusdvirus

In fairness to the ICU i have to SLIGHTLY dis-agree with tony there.

I'm coming up on the end of my first year paddling and have felt that their training and resources have helped enormously. Having said that i'm fortunate enough to live within easy driving distance of their Centre on the Strawberry Beds in Dublin. For someone starting out they are very good as they

1) Train you. In my training group we had 1 Training Instructor, 1 Instructor and 2 trainee instructors. This level of support for a group of 12 people meant even the least confidant person felt safe.

2) Once trained (to level 2 standard) they bring you out with a so-called bridging club. This allows you bridge the gap from brand new newbie who capsizes every 30 seconds or so to someon who isn't going to be a liability when out with a full club. (Personally i've graduated to being able to stay upright for a full 35 seconds! )

3) Let you use their gear for the bridging club. This is very handy as we all know how expensive it can be starting up in the sport.

4) Apres Kayak fun........I'll leave that to your imagination!!


The bridging club trips are all done with established clubs (this year it's been predominantly The Rock-hoppers, and Lir) and allow you get a feel for the different clubs around and which you may wish to join.

Having said that, i'm lucky enough to be living close enough to the centre, and with a durty great big dam lake beside me (anyone guess?? :P) If i was living further away from the ICU i can see where tony's point would be more accurate than mine.

thetonynator

Having said that, i'm lucky enough to be living close enough to the centre, and with a durty great big dam lake beside me (anyone guess?? ) If i was living further away from the ICU i can see where tony's point would be more accurate than mine.

If you live where i think you do ( Leixlip???) then Salmon Leap Canoe Club is just down the road from you . . . .

cyrusdvirus

thetonynator wrote: »

If you live where i think you do ( Leixlip???) then Salmon Leap Canoe Club is just down the road from you . . . .

Yup, Leixlip it is, and Salmon Leap Canoe Club is a damn fine club, but they seem to be a more competetive club than a "Fun-n-Games" club, which is what more what myself and Lady Crash are looking for.

adrianshanahan

Hey Gatecrash,

If you are looking for infor on clubs in your area Conor Ryan from the ICU will be able to help you out for sure.

There are 3 largeish clubs of note within distance of you which would include Rockhoppers and Lir canoe clubs who are more river / whitewater baised and are known as roofrack clubs and do not have a tradtional clubhouse set up. To be part of these clubs you kinda need to have all your own kit sorted etc.

Another option would be wildwater canoe club who are baised in strawberry beds just down from the Angliers rest. They take part in almost every diclipine for paddle sport and are a friendly lot. An added advantage is that they have allot of kit that they let their members use. This might suit you better if you are just setting out.

If you need any information on gettin kit together or getting intouch with any of the clubs I have mentioned just drop me a line.


Adrian

cyrusdvirus

adrianshanahan wrote: »

Hey Gatecrash,

If you are looking for infor on clubs in your area Conor Ryan from the ICU will be able to help you out for sure.

There are 3 largeish clubs of note within distance of you which would include Rockhoppers and Lir canoe clubs who are more river / whitewater baised and are known as roofrack clubs and do not have a tradtional clubhouse set up. To be part of these clubs you kinda need to have all your own kit sorted etc.

Another option would be wildwater canoe club who are baised in strawberry beds just down from the Angliers rest. They take part in almost every diclipine for paddle sport and are a friendly lot. An added advantage is that they have allot of kit that they let their members use. This might suit you better if you are just setting out.

If you need any information on gettin kit together or getting intouch with any of the clubs I have mentioned just drop me a line.


Adrian

Hey Adrian,

I've been out a few times with the Rockhoppers (mad bunch of nutters) and a few of the bodies from Lir were on the instructor team during our training. Roofrack is the way that i was planning on going to be honest.

Dunno why though!!

adrianshanahan

Well I can thourohly reccomend that you hook up with the guys form Rockhoppers, a very enthuastic , active and welcoming group of paddlers.

They have a message board where you can get more info from them as well as information on their weekly trips.

HERE


Adrian

christramp

Have to agree starting out with the ICU is the way to go - boats & equipment provided and it certainly gives you the confidence to progress. Join into clubs when you can - you will be welcomed warmly however most appreciate some paddling ability (still will take on complete novices though) courses for the ICU come up in the summer but sometimes places go fast, they do evening and weekend courses to suit most schedules.
I have to say having this forum will encourage grass roots in paddling - the other forums www.irishfreestyle.com and www.irishwhitewater.com are great resources and provide loads of information however it is very daunting for new starters to ask questions that may be seen as basic or even silly.
I personally hope this forum will encourage all questions and I would suggest a sticky on "strokes & moves" or "tips & tricks". each of the levels with the ICU require specific strokes and recoveries there are many ways of learning and teaching these however if you paddle with a set group you may only learn one technique or be taught by only one style. There are also tips and tricks to everything that people could share.

dubes

Id have to agree with the Tonynator, joining a club is the way to go!

Most clubs have all their own equipment aswell and offer a road into many different disicplines including racing which the ICU training centre does not really focus on . .

A_Border_Bandit

I don't know if I'm going off topic or not, but how much would a basic kayak be?

cyrusdvirus

A_Border_Bandit wrote: »

I don't know if I'm going off topic or not, but how much would a basic kayak be?

Depends on what you're looking for.

There are 2 different class of boats Sit On Tops or Sit In's. then all different types of boats within those classes; river runners, play boats, sea kayaks etc.

irishlostboy

A_Border_Bandit wrote: »

I don't know if I'm going off topic or not, but how much would a basic kayak be?

from about 250 euro+ second hand or about 500+ new, depending where you go and what you want to do.

christramp

Hi,
There are loads of options out there but you gotta know what you want and what suits you, I know too many lads that have bought what they think they want because of looks, brand or because others have them - these same lads have all changed their boats twice since then. If you are buying second hand aim more towards the € 500 mark and new € 800 + mark. again this depends on what you are looking to do but these price range will afford you more choice and better condition / quality boat. Best to make an investment that will last for a bit.
One main thing - Always Demo Demo Demo
Cheers
Chris
kayakhut.com

MarcusFenix

Hey guys,

Im currently "in between outdoor activities" and like the idea of kayaking. Went to oysterhaven near Kinsale years ago and LOVED the kayaking bit.

Im from west cork, about 20 mins from the nearest beach.

Where should I start to get into this?

Does anyone know if theres a club in west cork that does rivers?
or whatever like just wanna see if its for me and go from there

cheers:).........

irishlostboy

christramp wrote: »

....If you are buying second hand aim more towards the € 500 mark ..

there are plenty of less scruplous paddlers who realise that with the growing popularity of kayaking, they can buy a boat, paddle the arse off it for a year, then flog it for nearly new numbers. traders are increasingly being involved in the second hand market. back in the day it was mainly trade-ins, but now there are traders who buy up the deals on the second hand market and gain good returns on the sale. nothing wrong with that of course, just be aware it is happening.
buying second hand there is NO WARRANTY on the boat. when you buy new, the manufacturer usually offers a warranty on the boat for 1-5 years (depends on manufacturer) to the original owner only.
when you buy second hand you do not know the history of the boat. of course the owner will tell you he only took it on flat water and wrapped it in bubble wrap and only used organic shampoo on it once a week etc. he will never tell you about that one catastrophic hit the hull took on a big round rock which nearly turned the hull inside out. he then kicked the dent out, used the heat hun a bit, and it LOOKS as good as new.
so, is a boat with an unknown history and no warranty worth a mere 200 euro off? your choice. from my experience i would just keep an eye out for a good deal and go for it. i got a dagger CFS in good condition for 300 quid recently. this would be more than good enough for any beginner-intermediate paddler.

when buying second hand boat, remember to look for surface deformations above scratches. any indication that the hull has been oilcanned and pushed straght. ditto on the nose. this stuff is far worse than scratching.
also, remember to question WHY the person is selling the boat? if it is an old boat, they may just want to trade up to a new model. if it is a newer model either they dont like the boat, they have damaged it and want to shift it on to a sucker, or they are jumping onto the band wagon of "trade in your boat every year and flog the old one for a mere 200 euro loss". good racket. who wouldn't want to rent a brand new boat for 200 euro a year?
also, no offence to chris, just good sense, always question the logic of a person who runs a business selling kayaks telling you you really should pay more for your first boat. most of what chris says is good sense, but he is of course not going to agree with anything that wont help keep the ol food on his table. i wouldn't.
for me anyway, 500 euro is too much to spend on any second hand boat with the exception of a jackson crosslink boat or similar. i.e. a +1000 euro boat that has not had a newer model released by same company. so far i have hunted down boats for our club members when they want their own boat and never gone over the 350 euro mark. everyone is happy with their boats.

christramp

As I said before it all depends on what you are looking to do. I have looked around also for boats for club members and others and so far I have found most reasonable boats to sit in around the 500 euro mark - Pyranha burns, Liquid logic hoss etc - brand new these boats sit just below the 1000 euro mark. These are boats along with the dagger CFS I would recommend to start out with because of the volume to make paddling more stable and rescues easier. The average choice of Dagger GTs etc are too low volume and people quickly tire of these boats and move on. I have came across boats in the 300 euro mark but these have been typically older and poorer condition boats. IMO!
I have to say in the paddling community I have not came across nor have I ever heard of anyone being stung with a dope boat. Ive bought boats that have been repaired but the sellers were 100% up frount about it. I have to agree with Irishlostboy though check boats all over. run your hand up along the entire inside of a boat and if you can - take footrests & airbags out to check for stress areas - typically white lines where deformations would have been. Also try and see under the seat / centre piller if you can, also check the hull for slight creases this may show you the direction to look at.
Im not going to say much about the business that I am involved in apart from the fact that our reputation is the most important factor to us and we are primarily set up because of a passion for the sport. we will always advise on best choices and value for money and that is why we continually seek new brands bringing value and quality.
I hope you find what you are looking for, as I mentioned before demo demo demo and think where you want to be in 6 months and buy a boat that suits you now and then.
Chris

irishlostboy

i totally agree that the GT type boats that a lot of stores will advise on a cutomer are not a sound investment as yes, most users will trade up to a more specific boat, playboat or creeker (or even god forbid a flatwater cruiser or sea kayak:eek: ) , within a year or two and their resale value is low.

KenHy

To disagree slightly, while the GTs do have all the flaws outlined above that does not mean they are a bad boat. They do have a bit of everything in them, so as a beginner buying a GT means that you can go to a playspot and do something, go surfing and do something, or go run pretty much any river in Ireland (assuming you paddling skills are good enough).

Yes, If after a year or two you decide that trikey-woos and Helixes are what you want to do, than you will need a playboat, of you are hucking big ones and planing your annual trip to Norway, than you need a creeker. But most beginners don't know what they are planing on doing in the future, than a boat like a GT can be a good thing.

It's tail will catch, it will catch edges, but that encourages you to paddle well, if you buy say a CFS or Nomad, you will be able to paddle intermediate rivers easier, but when you step it up to harder ones you will get caught out with with your edges- which is better, doing your learning about edges in a relativity safe environment where a capsize or swim is easy to deal with and unlikely to do any harm, or realising for the first time that your ocean going cruiser has edges on the Dargle, Flesk or when you go foreign to where the water has much more power and speed?

joey100

I would have to disagree about the views on the gt boat as a beginner boat.

When a beginner starts out they don't know if they will do whitewater, surf, playboating or sea kayaking. Something like a gt means that they can do a bit of all of these. Gives beginners a chance to try different elements of the sport before deciding on a boat that would suit them.

As KenHy said their tails will catch and their rails may catch and but this just teaches them proper boat control and shows them the consequences of edging the wrong way.

I have been teaching paddling for over 10 years now and paddling approx 16-17 years, for me beginners learning in creek boats is too easy. They get away with too much, strokes don't have to be great and edging doesn't have to be great and they wont capsize. For me beginners learn better in a gt or boat that doesn't let them away with bad technique.

I also belive that their is no need for a creek boat on the anamoe, boyne, liffey or inny which are the rivers most beginners paddle around the Dublin area. A creek boat on these rivers is over kill. Beginners will not progress as fast paddling one of these boats compared to a gt or the like.

My 2 cent's anyway.

irishlostboy

yup. creekers are overkill for anything a beginner will be doing. so stick em in playboats. i would tell people to paddle your club boats until you have an idea of what you wanna do. and try out lots of peoples boats. just dont fork out loads of money for something you may not like in a year's time. personally i think getting your own paddle should come before your own boat. i dont mind paddling different boats, but i hate anyone else's paddle.

SamB64

I'd say get a forgiving boat with no much edge, and buy the best helmet you can afford.

I have a sweet Rocker full cut, which if you'll fogive the pun is sweet - only problem seems to be when practsising rolling ear pieces hold water for a while whch is kinda weird.

Everything else get 2nd hand until you can afford better.

Sam.

ec18

irishlostboy wrote: »

yup. creekers are overkill for anything a beginner will be doing. so stick em in playboats. i would tell people to paddle your club boats until you have an idea of what you wanna do. and try out lots of peoples boats. just dont fork out loads of money for something you may not like in a year's time. personally i think getting your own paddle should come before your own boat. i dont mind paddling different boats, but i hate anyone else's paddle.

I agree going down grade II/flatwater a creeker really is overkill. The smaller river running playboat type is what i'd recommend. And yes paddle before boat

dmcc1987

A_Border_Bandit wrote: »

I don't know if I'm going off topic or not, but how much would a basic kayak be?

a sit on top would be a good boat to start off with and for €320 i could get you a brand new single sit on top.dmcc1987@gmail.com

thetonynator

dmcc1987^^^

Don't put an email address up on boards unless you want a heap of spam, you can get someone to PM you if they need to contact you.

/V\etalfish

So from reading through this thread it seems that a good beginner kayak to get would be the Dagger GT?

I'm very interested in buying a kayak but when it comes down to the details, I really have no idea.

I'd need something that would suit lake and river paddling (no white water).
I live in O'briens Bridge in Clare, so I have easy access to the Shannon.

Any ideas where the best place to buy is and what is a good price for the above kayak?

dmcc1987

/V\etalfish wrote: »

So from reading through this thread it seems that a good beginner kayak to get would be the Dagger GT?

I'm very interested in buying a kayak but when it comes down to the details, I really have no idea.

I'd need something that would suit lake and river paddling (no white water).
I live in O'briens Bridge in Clare, so I have easy access to the Shannon.

Any ideas where the best place to buy is and what is a good price for the above kayak?

that boat will set u back around €700 you would probaly pick one up at either i-canoe in dublin or munster dive and canoe in cork but if your not planning on taking it on white water then its alot of money to spend for what your looking to use it for a sit on top would suit what your looking for you would pick one up for €320 at staroutdoors kenmare and a paddle for €45.

K_TRICKS

any advice on life jackets, quality, brands, prices etc

dmcc1987

in kayaking you use what are called buoyancy aids instead of life jackets cause when your moving around so much life jackets are two big and bulky. you can pick up a star flyer buoyancy aid for €35 it has a zip up the front and its nice and cheap for a beginner. you can pay upwards of €200 for buoyancy aids as well but thats a lot if you don't need all the attachment that come with these such as towing systems and all of that.

spuddy01

Just recently had the same dilemma myself,went to quite a few stores & picked there brains got some great info from a guy called Graham in a store in tralee & ended up buying a Bic Bilbao sit on top kayak which I have taken out nearly every wkend since getting with my mate who purchased 1 aswell.Just shop around there are deals out there

donadonie

Hi spuddy what was the name of the store in tralee .. im from killarney and would be interested in calling over there

spuddy01

donadonie wrote: »

Hi spuddy what was the name of the store in tralee .. im from killarney and would be interested in calling over there

Hi donadonie,
The name of the shop is E&D Marine and it's on Abbey Street.

donadonie

thanks spuddy

hydroflyer

Hey Guys,

I have been thinking about getting into kayaking for a while now and think its about time i got some gear. Im interested in mostly messing about in the local rivers and surf when i head West. Im looking for some advice on what sort of kayak would be the best at a low budget, or where i could go to look for second hand gear?
I have a lot of experience when it comes to watersports, and I really would prefer not to join a club. The sea and water is my get away and i dont like the the politics that goes with joining clubs from previous experience with other sports, im sure you can respect that.

I have been looking at pirhana's Daggers and Perception kayaks. Im just not too sure how short or long i should go. I want to do a bit of surfing in it for when there is no wind for kiting and i would also like it long enough so when im doing a bit of distance in the river im not paddling like mad and going backwards:)

Any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Hydroflyer

waterdogadventu

It might be worth your while having a look at this.

http://www.pyranha.com/kayaks.php?kayak=Z.One

hydroflyer

thanks waterdog,

Thats pretty much what i have been looking for. the colour is perfect too:)
Just think im going to start off in the secondhand market for my first kayak and when i get sucked in then il fork out on a brand new one:)

CornsnakeKeeper

Hi guys
I have been kayaking once before (in 6th class lol!!) and absolutely loved it! I think it was while on a trip to LIT or something and it was on the Shannon...thats as much as I remember...
Anyways I'm in 5th year now and I'm doing my leaving in June and I really want to get into some new hobbies and living in Galway I think that kayaking would be a pretty cool one to take up.
Just wondering if there are any clubs in the Galway area or if there are any really good websites/forums that teach all the basics as reading through this thread I don't want to go buying something I won't use in 2 years time or something that won't be suitable for where I'll be using it..
I am only just reading up on this today and I have no clue at all about this stuff so any help is much appreciated!!
Thanks!

yer man!

Has anyone on here bought a peak uk creeker spraydeck and are they anygood? I bought one online today on sale for €45 and didn't realise it was creeker.... does this matter? I will be using this deck for both creekers and playboats, it's keyhole size. It doesn't have a dry lip but is suposed to be a tight fit on the boat.

irishlostboy

yer man! wrote: »

Has anyone on here bought a peak uk creeker spraydeck and are they anygood? I bought one online today on sale for €45 and didn't realise it was creeker.... does this matter? I will be using this deck for both creekers and playboats, it's keyhole size. It doesn't have a dry lip but is suposed to be a tight fit on the boat.

it will be fine for most boats no problem. 45 quid is a good deal on it. well done. spraydecks are pretty flexable (no pun intended) in their use. most cockpits are keyhole size compatable.

dmg10

Hi, been paddling infrequently for years, but never anything too serious. Been thinking recently that last summer, the surf was lacking and I didn't get on the water hardly at all so looking to buy a kayak now but want something suitable for sea and river (although I've no plans to do major whitewater etc). Also looking for something that will be good for search, and water event support etc. I've narrowed it down to this one but just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on it?

Also, any recommendations on lifevest? Don't want to go cheapy cheapy but something with a pocket in the front that doesn't cost the earth would be good. And how much should you spend on a decent enough paddle?

bobbaggio

Whats happening folks, all very useful info, but I was wondering where I could go in the next couple of weeks to Kayak, or at least learn. By the looks of WWKC.net they don't have introduction courses until may?? I may be wrong about this, But I would love to do my training as soon as possible so I can get out there, before I lose interest and it becomes one of those things...."I was going to do one time"

Zuppy

bobbaggio wrote: »

Whats happening folks, all very useful info, but I was wondering where I could go in the next couple of weeks to Kayak, or at least learn. By the looks of WWKC.net they don't have introduction courses until may?? I may be wrong about this, But I would love to do my training as soon as possible so I can get out there, before I lose interest and it becomes one of those things...."I was going to do one time"

Did you see the other thread here?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=76314108#post76314108

Might help you find like minded people. Would love to help but the commute to Cork might waste your paddling time.

Annunakicoming

Sea kayaking club north Dublin...newbie paddler enquiring here

calistro

Hi there, hope I'm posting in the correct section.
Basically I done an introductory lesson a few years back but never took it any further and am going to sign up for more lessons and am thinking about buying a 2nd hand kayak. I've been offered a Pyranha Mountain Bat and was hoping someone on here might be able to tell me if it would be suitable mostly for lakes and some river paddling.
I thinks it's a good few years old but it is a low price and I don't want to spend much until I'm sure I'll stick with it this time.

Thanks for any info.

billboy

se conman wrote: »

If you intend to take up canoeing or kayaking , the very first thing that you need to get is a VERY HEALTY RESPECT FOR WATER.Water can provide endless hours of fun and exercise but if taken for granted , nothing will bite you in the ass as quick.Always think safety and enjoy your paddling.

completly new to this kayaking but am thinking of buying a second hand Trident Ocean Sit on top fishing kayak. Looks good,stable and affordable at 550 euro. What do you think.

whirlpool

Hey,

I've been kayaking a handful of times over the years and love it.

I'm in Dublin. Any recommendations on good places to get beginners training and then join a club? I'm not interested in the competitive side of it, just enjoying the kayaking itself and the social side too. I would also prefer to kayak on the sea as opposed to the Liffey, or at least close to the sea. Would love some advice. Thanks!

barraseaclaid

Well everyone,
I am based down in Waterford and have done my level 2 last year with pure adventure and then a few lessons after that,
I then bought a boat and have spent the last while paddling up and down the suir for exercise, I attempted level 3 skills course last weekend and it's clearly evident that I need to spend a hell of a lot more time paddling whitewater in order to improve, I am looking at joining the club in kilkenny ASAP but just wondering are there anyone Waterford based on here that go out on a regular enough basis that that perhaps would have room for one more????

adrianshanahan

Hi the club in Waterford is no longer active as far as I know, there is a club the runs out of WIT during the term months. After that There are clubs in Kilkenny, Clonmel, Graighnamanagh, Thomastown, Tullow.

All have their pros and cons.

simons545

Hi everyone!
I have a pair of Rough Stuff Kinetics and I find when I do more powerful water, the paddle shaft slips out of my hand. I was thinking hurling grip or tennis grip for the shaft. What do people use in general?
• surf wax
• NRS grip tape (what do you think of this?)
I'd love peoples opinions and tips please!
Thanks very much