Are pharmacists not allowed make any money?

Nonoperational

I recently went to a G.P for a prescription for some medication. Was in there for about 3 minutes got the 6 month Rx and was charged €55 for the pleasure. Fair enough I don't mind.

What I do mind is the fact that a pharmacist making a good wage now seems to be almost taboo. It is almost something to be ashamed of taking money from people to provide a service yet when I go buy my lunch somewhere for €12 I am paying at least a 50% markup. Has it come to the stage where pharmacists are so loathed that they should be doing it for free? I have no interest in ripping off anyone but I still believe I should earn a fair wage for the work I do. I worked hard in college for 4 years, did a years training after college, work without a break for 9 hours a day in a job that is not overly hard but still needs 100% concentration.
Why the backlash and why so strong?

Victor

gpf101 wrote: »

when I go buy my lunch somewhere for €12 ... work without a break for 9 hours a day

**cough** Not everyone can afford €12 lunches. **cough** (Yes, I'll need something for that).

While there may be a 50% mark-up on food, drugs generally sell for a lot more. It think it would be rare to see a pharmacist on the breadline.

FluffyCat

I have to agree with OP. It seems to me that pharmacists should be paying the patients to takes meds!
Im studying pharmacy and have been told that the Dole queue will be the my only source of income when Im finished.
Not nice.

kmick

I recently paid 51 euro for 15 pills of Sporanox in a pharmacy in Dublin. 3.40 per pill. I checked the UK and the same retails for 22 pounds sterling (€25.50). Now from that I am guessing that someone is gouging me and gouging me hard. it may be the the manufacturer, the wholesaler or the pharmacist or a combination of all 3. All I know is it left a bad taste in mouth to pay 51euro for 15 tablets. When I queried the price the pharmacist assistant shrugged her shoulders and said nothing as if to say take it or leave it pal.

witchgirl26

I worked in a pharmacy a few years ago as an over-the-counter assisstant & agree with the OP on this. Saw first hand that the only way they can make money is with the mark up on the other products in the shop half the time & not the actual medication.

jimmycrackcorm

witchgirl26 wrote: »

I worked in a pharmacy a few years ago as an over-the-counter assisstant & agree with the OP on this. Saw first hand that the only way they can make money is with the mark up on the other products in the shop half the time & not the actual medication.

What's so unusual about that? Petrol stations don't actually make any money from selling petrol which is why you never see a petrol station without an accompanying convenience shop selling sweets and other retail items at a huge markup.

A former colleague told me his niece finished college in 2006 and went straight into a pharmacy job paying €50k a year. If this is the case for pharmacy grads then it's no wonder people complain about not being allowed to make money.

RobFowl

jimmycrackcorm1 wrote: »

A former colleague told me his niece finished college in 2006 and went straight into a pharmacy job paying €50k a year. If this is the case for pharmacy grads then it's no wonder people complain about not being allowed to make money.

Highly trained graduates earn more than the average industrial wage shocker :rolleyes:

witchgirl26

The difference though with pharmacies and petrol stations is that petrol stations don't have to have 2 fully qualified people on the premises at all times.

I know other places don't always make the most profit on their main source of business but I do think that pharmacies get a rough time of it whenever they mention anything about trying to make more money from medications.

Also oftentimes the cost of your medication has little to do with the pharmacy & more to do with the doctor. If the doctor prescribes a particular brand of medication than that's exactly what the pharmacist dispenses - they can't switch it to a more generic brand to save you money.

I know at least 2 pharmacies close to me that have been on the brink of closure until they added more toiletries to their stock because the amount they made from dealing with prescriptions wasn't enough to keep them going.

bleg

jimmycrackcorm1 wrote: »

What's so unusual about that? Petrol stations don't actually make any money from selling petrol which is why you never see a petrol station without an accompanying convenience shop selling sweets and other retail items at a huge markup.

A former colleague told me his niece finished college in 2006 and went straight into a pharmacy job paying €50k a year. If this is the case for pharmacy grads then it's no wonder people complain about not being allowed to make money.

Private subsidisation of the public drug bill.

Nonoperational

The €12 was an example. Most days I don't bother with lunch. Like the UK comparison is very very overused. There are so so many factors to consider not least the fact that drugs here are more expensive for pharmacies to buy then they are in the UK.

As for pharmacists not being on the breadline, I'm telling you this may not be true for pharmacists with jobs for a few years but have a look at the people that graduated in the last 2/3 years. I know lots are still on the dole and others are just about scraping by with an average of a day a weeks work. I'm not looking for any sympathy but I am curious as to why people almost get sick at the thought of pharmacy servies making a profit.

BrianD3

Many people have little respect for pharmacists, they would have no more respect for a retail pharmacist than they would for someone working in a sweetshop or newsagent. You go into a pharmacy to buy drugs, you go into a newsagent to buy a newspaper, sure what's the difference :rolleyes:

There is a kind of inverted snobbery when it comes to pharmacy. It's OK for a digger driver, labourer or plumber etc. to earn great money during the boom because they're the "working man". Whereas a pharmacist is some sort of faceless shopkeeper to be looked down upon.

Fighting Irish

gpf101 wrote: »

I recently went to a G.P for a prescription for some medication. Was in there for about 3 minutes got the 6 month Rx and was charged €55 for the pleasure. Fair enough I don't mind.

What I do mind is the fact that a pharmacist making a good wage now seems to be almost taboo. It is almost something to be ashamed of taking money from people to provide a service yet when I go buy my lunch somewhere for €12 I am paying at least a 50% markup. Has it come to the stage where pharmacists are so loathed that they should be doing it for free? I have no interest in ripping off anyone but I still believe I should earn a fair wage for the work I do. I worked hard in college for 4 years, did a years training after college, work without a break for 9 hours a day in a job that is not overly hard but still needs 100% concentration.
Why the backlash and why so strong?

The people who bought into the celtic tiger and are now in debt are jealous and everyone is too blame except for themselves. Banks, Government, Teachers, Pharmacists, RTE Radio Hosts etc etc

ballsymchugh

Fighting Irish wrote: »

The people who bought into the celtic tiger and are now in debt are jealous and everyone is too blame except for themselves. Banks, Government, Teachers, Pharmacists, RTE Radio Hosts etc etc

bull**** post, sorry. pharmacists may have contracts with the HSE but they are not employed by the public unless they work in hospitals. also, they are the only one of that group that are required to have indemnity. if they screw up, they pay for it. have the banks paid yet? or the governement? has the minister for communications (or whatever dept it's called now!) sat down with the RTE 'stars' and renegotiated their contract on a one sided basis like mary harney did with the pharmacy union? i think if that happened then we could be on to something.

Fighting Irish

ballsymchugh wrote: »

bull**** post, sorry. pharmacists may have contracts with the HSE but they are not employed by the public unless they work in hospitals. also, they are the only one of that group that are required to have indemnity. if they screw up, they pay for it. have the banks paid yet? or the governement? has the minister for communications (or whatever dept it's called now!) sat down with the RTE 'stars' and renegotiated their contract on a one sided basis like mary harney did with the pharmacy union? i think if that happened then we could be on to something.

When the public comes to the realisation that it's easily 50% they're fault, then i'll listen to people who complain about people who are still making money

Victor

gpf101 wrote: »

As for pharmacists not being on the breadline, I'm telling you this may not be true for pharmacists with jobs for a few years but have a look at the people that graduated in the last 2/3 years. I know lots are still on the dole and others are just about scraping by with an average of a day a weeks work.

There are 437,000 unemployed people in the country. How is the experience of young pharmacists any different to other graduates? Is it because more experienced people are "hogging" all the work?

Nonoperational

BrianD3 wrote: »

Many people have little respect for pharmacists, they would have no more respect for a retail pharmacist than they would for someone working in a sweetshop or newsagent. You go into a pharmacy to buy drugs, you go into a newsagent to buy a newspaper, sure what's the difference :rolleyes:

There is a kind of inverted snobbery when it comes to pharmacy. It's OK for a digger driver, labourer or plumber etc. to earn great money during the boom because they're the "working man". Whereas a pharmacist is some sort of faceless shopkeeper to be looked down upon.

You go into a pharmacy to buy drugs fair enough so why can't the person that sells them make money.
Thats the easy answer, but I would love if just for one week all the pharmacists "worked to rule". You have no idea what actually goes on in a pharmacy every day. Every day you are on the phone to doctors fixing errors on prescriptions, watching to make sure there is not interactions between drugs, giving adivce to people, sourcing hard to get products etc etc.

Victor wrote: »

There are 437,000 unemployed people in the country. How is the experience of young pharmacists any different to other graduates? Is it because more experienced people are "hogging" all the work?

Did I say the experience was different? My question is why if you do manage to get a job are you treated like some scumbag that should be doing the work for free and has a cheek to make a profit.

_Whimsical_

gpf101 wrote: »

What I do mind is the fact that a pharmacist making a good wage now seems to be almost taboo. It is almost something to be ashamed of taking money from people to provide a service yet when I go buy my lunch somewhere for €12 I am paying at least a 50% markup.
Why the backlash and why so strong?

I think the difference that your comparisson fails to take into account is that you have a choice of how much you spend on your lunch each day. You could bring it from home everyday for €2 or you can spend €20 in a restaurant. There is no choice when
it comes to medication. Comparing the mark up on a meal and that on medication is completely unfair and it misses the point.

I don't think that there is an unreasonable backlash against pharmacists right now.For the first time Irish people have had a means to compare med prices at home & abroad and we see that we are paying above the odds for our medications.At a time when the majority of the country are in financial difficulty why would we not be angered by this and seek some change?Why would people not naturally first ask questions of their pharmacists?

Most people dont understand the factors that govern medication prices in Ireland.Blame for over pricing may not lay at the pharmacists door but what I cannot understand is as educated people trusted with a crucial healthcare role in our society why are you all so quiet on the issue of inflated prices being set by the government? Why have you not actively educated the public on this issue so public and political pressure could be brought to bear on the matter? Instead the only issue we have seen you willing to stand up and be counted on was that of your own margin in relation to medical card dispensing costs.At that time many pharmacists were willing to use those most vunerable in our society,those ill and on medical cards,as pawns to serve your own ends.Regardless of motivation sentiment was going to change after that.

As patients, pharmacists and healthcare professionals of all kinds we should all be on the same side.Instead it feels like pharmacists are meeting the questions asked of them with an apathy that fails to understand the financial position most of us are in.I don't think anyone wants pharmacists providing a service for free or resents you making a living. We just want a fair price for what we HAVE to buy through necessity rather than choice.

Nonoperational

Pernickity wrote: »

I think the difference that your comparisson fails to take into account is that you have a choice of how much you spend on your lunch each day. You could bring it from home everyday for €2 or you can spend €20 in a restaurant. There is no choice when
it comes to medication. Comparing the mark up on a meal and that on medication is completely unfair and it misses the point.

That was just an example. Fine forget that. I went to the doctor, it was €55 for 3 minutes. Use that as your example. Had no choice there.

Pernickity wrote: »

I don't think that there is an unreasonable backlash against pharmacists right now.For the first time Irish people have had a means to compare med prices at home & abroad and we see that we are paying above the odds for our medications.At a time when the majority of the country are in financial difficulty why would we not be angered by this and seek some change?Why would people not naturally first ask questions of their pharmacists?

Fair enough but there has to be an overhaul of the way pharmacists earn money so. Because by wiping out the profit on private prescriptions it is going make it that the only pharmacies that can stay in business are the big groups and they will be operating at a level that could easily leave room for errors to creep in. It was long the case that the private business subsidised the public side of the business.

Pernickity wrote: »

Most people dont understand the factors that govern medication prices in Ireland.Blame for over pricing may not lay at the pharmacists door but what I cannot understand is as educated people trusted with a crucial healthcare role in our society why are you all so quiet on the issue of inflated prices being set by the government? Why have you not actively educated the public on this issue so public and political pressure could be brought to bear on the matter? Instead the only issue we have seen you willing to stand up and be counted on was that of your own margin in relation to medical card dispensing costs.At that time many pharmacists were willing to use those most vunerable in our society,those ill and on medical cards,as pawns to serve your own ends.Regardless of motivation sentiment was going to change after that.

I didn't agree with that action at all and was not a pharmacist at the time.

Pernickity wrote: »

As patients, pharmacists and healthcare professionals of all kinds we should all be on the same side.Instead it feels like pharmacists are meeting the questions asked of them with an apathy that fails to understand the financial position most of us are in.I don't think anyone wants pharmacists providing a service for free or resents you making a living. We just want a fair price for what we HAVE to buy through necessity rather than choice.

.

Fighting Irish

gpf101 wrote: »

Did I say the experience was different? My question is why if you do manage to get a job are you treated like some scumbag that should be doing the work for free and has a cheek to make a profit.

Because we're in a recession and everyone is hurt and jealous, simple as


Fair fooks to everyone making a few squid right now

yogy

Victor wrote: »

**cough** Not everyone can afford €12 lunches. **cough** (Yes, I'll need something for that).

While there may be a 50% mark-up on food, drugs generally sell for a lot more. It think it would be rare to see a pharmacist on the breadline.

By law, in the past, it has never been possible for any medicine to sell for more than 50% mark up.

BrianD3 wrote: »

You go into a pharmacy to buy drugs, you go into a newsagent to buy a newspaper, sure what's the difference :rolleyes:

God if only the pharmacist's job was as easy as handing out pills! I always get a laugh when I hear ignorant people claim that that's all pharmacists do. Somehow I get the feeling you are not a pharmacist BrianD3!


It is funny to read so many people talk about pharmacists like they know what is involved in the profession. The amount of ill informed people out there is crazy. The majority of people giving out about pricing and how little pharmacist's do have no idea what they are on about. However dealing with these people is an occupational hazard and you learn to pay no head (until what they claim is factual at least) and go about your day..

BrianD3

yogy wrote: »

God if only the pharmacist's job was as easy as handing out pills! I always get a laugh when I hear ignorant people claim that that's all pharmacists do. Somehow I get the feeling you are not a pharmacist BrianD3!

Re: my earlier quote, you might need to adjust your sarcasm detector. I agree with you about the role of the pharmacist. A few of my family are or have been pharmacists.

Victor

yogy wrote: »

By law, in the past, it has never been possible for any medicine to sell for more than 50% mark up.

Tom is running a café. Sales are €1,000 per day. Cost of sales is €500 per day (ingredients, food and drink). Mark-up 100%. Fixed costs (including staff) €400 per day. Profit €100 per day.

Next door, Dick is running a pharmacy. Sales are €3,000 per day. Cost of sales is €2,000 per day (drugs, toiletries, etc.). Mark-up 50%. Fixed costs (including staff) €400 per day. Profit €600 per day.

Further up the street, Harry runs a barber shop. Sales are €1,000 per day. Cost of sales is €25 per day (shampoo, hair gel, etc.). Mark-up 3900%. Fixed costs (including staff) €400 per day. Profit €175 per day.

So, while Dick has a very small mark-up relative to the others, he sells high value items, this means he can better cover his fixed costs and make a better profit.

amjon.

chilly wrote: »

We just want a fair price...

I'm sorry life isn't fair, get over it or jog on. Pharmacy is shyte career; the decent wage was the only thing it had going for it. BTW pharmacists earn 100k plus in the States so any unemployed grads should look into that. Lets just hope Obama and his socialism only lasts for one term.

locum-motion

OK, so you've plucked imaginary figures out of the air to illustrate your argument, but, tell me, why is the sales figure you've plucked for Dick's Drugs three times larger than the others?

Let me give you another example.

Garry is a GP on the same street. He sees 4 patients an hour, 8 hours a day at €60 a pop. Sales are €1920. Cost of sales are €0.10 (32 sheets of prescription paper and 1% of the ink in a biro!). Mark-up is 19,200%. Fixed costs (including staff) €400 per day {since you appear to think that all businesses (cafes, pharmacies, barbers) all have the exact same fixed costs}. Profit €1519.90.

We can all pluck figures out of the air, Victor.

Victor wrote: »

Tom is running a café. Sales are €1,000 per day. Cost of sales is €500 per day (ingredients, food and drink). Mark-up 100%. Fixed costs (including staff) €400 per day. Profit €100 per day.

Next door, Dick is running a pharmacy. Sales are €3,000 per day. Cost of sales is €2,000 per day (drugs, toiletries, etc.). Mark-up 50%. Fixed costs (including staff) €400 per day. Profit €600 per day.

Further up the street, Harry runs a barber shop. Sales are €1,000 per day. Cost of sales is €25 per day (shampoo, hair gel, etc.). Mark-up 3900%. Fixed costs (including staff) €400 per day. Profit €175 per day.

So, while Dick has a very small mark-up relative to the others, he sells high value items, this means he can better cover his fixed costs and make a better profit.

Victor

locum-motion wrote: »

OK, so you've plucked imaginary figures out of the air to illustrate your argument, but, tell me, why is the sales figure you've plucked for Dick's Drugs three times larger than the others?

Because for a given floor space* / number of staff sales are higher in a pharmacy than a café. Typical spend in a café, say sandwich and coffee = €6. Typical spend in a pharmacy = I'm guessing well over €20.


* Part of that will be dependent on the amount of Zone A floor space.

locum-motion

Victor wrote: »

Because for a given floor space* / number of staff sales are higher in a pharmacy than a café.

Have you a source for this?

Victor wrote: »

Typical spend in a café, say sandwich and coffee = €6. Typical spend in a pharmacy = I'm guessing well over €20.

Oh, no, you're plucking from thin air again. Typical customer spend in a pharmacy is actually between 5 and 10. Of course, some are bigger, which drags the average up a bit, but not to 20.

Victor wrote: »

* Part of that will be dependent on the amount of Zone A floor space.

What's Zone A? Is it the public area as opposed to dispensary/kitchen?

Victor

People regularly spend well north of €100 in pharmacies. Just because its paid by a medical card or other scheme does not mean its not a sale. How often will someone spend €100 in a café*?

locum-motion wrote: »

What's Zone A? Is it the public area as opposed to dispensary/kitchen?

Its an estate agent term for what is essentially window space. If you have a large warehouse out the back, your sales/m2 are going to be distorted compared to someone who doesn't have a warehouse out back.



* Not Café en Seine.

opinion guy

B<snip>x.

Last time I was in a phamracy I spotted some nonprescription generic 28 pack ranitidine behind the counter. i asked how much it was - i was told 12EUR and ooooowhat a deal is that. B<SNIP>X. I bought a 6 pack of ranitidine in th euk for 0.97p last year. So for 28 that would have been about 4.50 pounds or 6 EUR give of take.

so no i have no sympathy for the pharmacists when they go telling me what a deal it is whilst they ride me

Edit - oh and it was in the SAME pharmacy chain

yogy

Victor wrote: »

Tom is running a café. Sales are €1,000 per day. Cost of sales is €500 per day (ingredients, food and drink). Mark-up 100%. Fixed costs (including staff) €400 per day. Profit €100 per day.

Next door, Dick is running a pharmacy. Sales are €3,000 per day. Cost of sales is €2,000 per day (drugs, toiletries, etc.). Mark-up 50%. Fixed costs (including staff) €400 per day. Profit €600 per day.

Further up the street, Harry runs a barber shop. Sales are €1,000 per day. Cost of sales is €25 per day (shampoo, hair gel, etc.). Mark-up 3900%. Fixed costs (including staff) €400 per day. Profit €175 per day.

So, while Dick has a very small mark-up relative to the others, he sells high value items, this means he can better cover his fixed costs and make a better profit.

First of all you show a lack of basic understanding of costing as can be seen from above.

You're not comparing like with like at all. How can you compare a barber shop to a Pharmacy. I'm sure a barber shop's sales of hair gel etc. account for less than 10% of income. You forgot to factor in the income from the actual job. i.e. haircuts. Nobody has a 3900% mark up on anything.

Again it's mad the way some people think they understand and know the price structure in pharmacies. Do they know what mark up McDonalds make on their Big Macs or Brown Thomas on their clothes? Very doubtful.

Only a portion of stock sold in a pharmacy is sold at anywhere near 50%. Toiletries are sold at most at around 25% mark up, usually less, in order to compete with supermarkets etc.

All medicines not restricted to pharmacies are sold at 33% or less.

And most significantly of all, ALL GMS prescription items, which make up the majority of drugs dispensed are sold at a whopping 0.00% mark up.

So Victor, if you want to give an indication of what industry you are involved in and I will gladly pluck figures and cost structures out of the air to explain the profits you make.

RobFowl

opinion guy wrote: »

B<snip>x.

Last time I was in a phamracy I spotted some nonprescription generic 28 pack ranitidine behind the counter. i asked how much it was - i was told 12EUR and ooooowhat a deal is that. B<SNIP>X. I bought a 6 pack of ranitidine in th euk for 0.97p last year. So for 28 that would have been about 4.50 pounds or 6 EUR give of take.

so no i have no sympathy for the pharmacists when they go telling me what a deal it is whilst they ride me

Edit - oh and it was in the SAME pharmacy chain

The cost price of drugs are far cheaper in the UK. The cost price of the cheapest generic ranitidine in Ireland (28 pack) is €8.56.

I would have thought €12 is quite a good price give the added costs of staff, rent, heating, fit out, wastage, rates and many more..

I used to work in a restaurent and the mark up there was well in excess of 100% and staff costs were far lower.

_Whimsical_

amjon. wrote: »

I'm sorry life isn't fair, get over it or jog on. Pharmacy is shyte career; the decent wage was the only thing it had going for it. BTW pharmacists earn 100k plus in the States so any unemployed grads should look into that. Lets just hope Obama and his socialism only lasts for one term.

So you're basically saying that you're *just a puffed up salesman who's only interest is in making a buck? Your little "life is not fair boo hoo" rant is directed at every sick and long term ill person in the country. We god damn know life isn't fair!!! We get to be sick AND suffer the financial burden that comes with that pleasure.Yet here you are complaining that you don't get to become rich on the back of the most vunerable people in society AND get get a round of applause and unquestioning respect for it in the process!

As for the whole "uhh pharmacy is hard...really really hard" bit would you ever just get over it. There is no way that is harder than nursing,teaching,engineering,medical research or indeed most manual labour based work. Lots of jobs require extreme attention to detail and may result in catastrophe if they are not undertaken very diligently.Reading through some of the comments here I can't help but think that your education as pharmacists is sadly lacking a social science element.Learn that along with a respected position within society comes some form of social responsibility beyond counting out tablets and accurately reading prescriptions.If you don't see that then look forward to being treated as an over payed, money grabbing shop assistant in future.

I should say that I don't direct my comments to all pharmacists here.Some have gone out of their way to answer questions asked in a respectful manner that demonstrates that they do not see their sole role as miserly shop owners and are worthy of respect.Some however are EXCEPTIONAL whingebags who will do immeasurable harm to the deserved good reputation of others.