N25 - Waterford to Glenmore [design ongoing; ABP in mid 2022]

nordydan

Not sure which thread to put this in, the N25 Waterford Bypass would be the closest but its lokced. I am not sure if it has been mentioned before, but route options for proposed DC scheme to link the end of the WCB to the proposed New Ross bypass have been posted here:

http://www.kilkennycoco.ie/eng/Services/Roads/Roads_Projects/N25WaterfordGlenmore/

Edited to attach scheme document and maps ~ Furet

NedNew2

This is a very busy route (I've travelled it for years) and can be very frustrating to drive due to the high traffic numbers and lack of overtaking opportunities.

Its also a well known speed trap since flustered drivers (after been stuck in New Ross or Waterford) try to make up some time.

There has been many fatal accidents. Once I saw an English registered car driving towards me on the wrong side of the road as they had been confused by the road markings (my side had a slow lane & a normal lane, the other side just a single lane).

Definitely for safety reasons alone it needs to be replaced.

wellbutty

Yeah it sure is a busy road, the 2+1 is dodgy especially in the dark. Does Euroroute status (E30) allow for EU funding or is it just a name I wonder?

csd

wellbutty wrote: »

Yeah it sure is a busy road, the 2+1 is dodgy especially in the dark. Does Euroroute status (E30) allow for EU funding or is it just a name I wonder?

While the Euroroute status might be an indicator of what routes might deserve EU funding, the Euroroute designation itself is made by the UN Economic Commission for Europe, not the EU.

/csd

Amtmann

Small update here. Tender for a topographical survey: http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=AUG260855

This 10km scheme doesn't seem to have been suspended at all.

spadesaspade

Tremelo wrote: »

Small update here. Tender for a topographical survey: http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=AUG260855

This 10km scheme doesn't seem to have been suspended at all.

This road was never going to go ahead, as i heard from someone high up. This topographical survey was previously done so that must be a mistake on e-tenders.

road_high

It's a reasonably decent two lane road, I think with low cost safety improvements and junction improvements the high accident rate could easily be reduced. I never saw the big need for it as a priority new road. There are far worse stretches of N road in the country. The N25 between New Ross and Waterford is a reasonably good road overall.

marno21

7 years on, scheme has been reactivated by TII, and is a priority for them. Will bridge the DC gap between the New Ross bypass and the Waterford bypass

Chris_5339762

As I've given out about before, this one irritates me as, despite whatever cost/benefit they've done, that a Dungarvan bypass should be done ahead of this on the N25, or Midleton to Youghal (bypassing Killeagh and Castlemartyr). I cannot understand the push for this one.

Harry Palmr

Because it's about 8 Kms long probably and would just feel wrong between two sections of modern high grade motorway

Jayuu

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

As I've given out about before, this one irritates me as, despite whatever cost/benefit they've done, that a Dungarvan bypass should be done ahead of this on the N25, or Midleton to Youghal (bypassing Killeagh and Castlemartyr). I cannot understand the push for this one.

I wouldn't disagree with you that there are other parts of the N25 that require action. However I suppose given the length of the route and the fact that there will be dual-carriageway on either side this is probably a "quick win" scheme to get done.

NedNew2

Jayuu wrote: »

I wouldn't disagree with you that there are other parts of the N25 that require action. However I suppose given the length of the route and the fact that there will be dual-carriageway on either side this is probably a "quick win" scheme to get done.

I'm no civil engineer but I do know the area very well and I would imagine it wouldn't be a technically challenging job as the terrain is not too difficult (assuming they go for an online widening). The road is already quite wide with decent grass verges.

Middle Man

NedNew2 wrote: »

I'm no civil engineer but I do know the area very well and I would imagine it wouldn't be a technically challenging job as the terrain is not too difficult (assuming they go for an online widening). The road is already quite wide with decent grass verges.

Why not just go the whole way and have a motorway linking New Ross and Waterford? After all, the Waterford bypass appears to be a motorway in all but name while the first few km of the New Ross Bypass will be HQDC spec too (to the R733). When done, just re-designate the whole lot from the R733 to Kilmeadan including the major bridge currently under construction.

spadesaspade

marno21 wrote: »

7 years on, scheme has been reactivated by TII, and is a priority for them. Will bridge the DC gap between the New Ross bypass and the Waterford bypass

Where are you getting this information from? Would be great to see it happen.

marno21

Middle Man wrote: »

Why not just go the whole way and have a motorway linking New Ross and Waterford? After all, the Waterford bypass appears to be a motorway in all but name while the first few km of the New Ross Bypass will be HQDC spec too (to the R733). When done, just re-designate the whole lot from the R733 to Kilmeadan including the major bridge currently under construction.

This does give scope for an M25 redesgination between New Ross Jn (R733) and Kilmeaden. The roundabout at the western terminus of the New Ross BP would require grade seperation if that was the case

marno21

Atkins appointed for Phases 1-4 of this scheme

https://www.irishbuildingmagazine.ie/2019/07/01/atkins-signs-contracts-for-the-n25-waterford-to-glenmore-technical-consultancy-services/

9.5km of dual carriageway

blindsider

Thanks Marno21 - any indication of further progress e.g. construction start and finish dates?

marno21

blindsider wrote: »

Thanks Marno21 - any indication of further progress e.g. construction start and finish dates?

It won't start construction until after 2023/4 anyway - very early to be calling anything beyond that.

Chris_5339762

As I've ranted about before, this is ridiculously far up the priority list so I'd expect this to be pushed quite strongly. Its between two bits of decent dual carriageway (once New Ross is done) and that seems to be why they're foaming at the mouth to get this done rather than do Midleton to Youghal which is far more important.

Harry Palmr

Leaving that at times dangerous and now short two lane section between two lengths of motorway standard road makes little sense.

Chris_5339762

Stick an enforced 80kmh limit on it for the time being, ban overtaking along most of it and put the money and effort into Midleton to Youghal. Its not a long enough gap to really inconvenience drivers or slow things down but the jamups and traffic levels on going through Castlemartyr and Killeagh are far more disruptive than anything along here, by a long shot.

Anyway, I presume this will be 2+2 when they do it? Likely one junction in the middle?

marno21

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Stick an enforced 80kmh limit on it for the time being, ban overtaking along most of it and put the money and effort into Midleton to Youghal. Its not a long enough gap to really inconvenience drivers or slow things down but the jamups and traffic levels on going through Castlemartyr and Killeagh are far more disruptive than anything along here, by a long shot.

Anyway, I presume this will be 2+2 when they do it? Likely one junction in the middle?

It’s motorway standard on both sides so would make sense to be motorway

BelfastVanMan

marno21 wrote: »

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Stick an enforced 80kmh limit on it for the time being, ban overtaking along most of it and put the money and effort into Midleton to Youghal. Its not a long enough gap to really inconvenience drivers or slow things down but the jamups and traffic levels on going through Castlemartyr and Killeagh are far more disruptive than anything along here, by a long shot.

Anyway, I presume this will be 2+2 when they do it? Likely one junction in the middle?

It’s motorway standard on both sides so would make sense to be motorway

Might see the first length of M25, then, from Kilmeaden to New Ross.

road_high

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

As I've ranted about before, this is ridiculously far up the priority list so I'd expect this to be pushed quite strongly. Its between two bits of decent dual carriageway (once New Ross is done) and that seems to be why they're foaming at the mouth to get this done rather than do Midleton to Youghal which is far more important.

Lot/all of it was already realigned in the 80/90s- there are literally dozens of far more pressing schemes to be looked at well before this. There’s no way any of the other N25 bottlenecks should be ignored over this.

DumbBrunette

Are you sure New Ross bypass is type 1 DC? Looks like type 2 in the pics I've seen so far?

marno21 wrote: »

It’s motorway standard on both sides so would make sense to be motorway

marno21

DumbBrunette wrote: »

Are you sure New Ross bypass is type 1 DC? Looks like type 2 in the pics I've seen so far?

Glenmore-R733 junction is Type 1, east of there is Type 2.

In effect the bridge and approaches are Type 1 and the rest then is Type 2, thus most of what’s completed is Type 2

hi5

The bridge is motorway standard, the rest is just ring a road around New Ross.
Future proofing for an eventual motorway from Cork to Rosslare.

marno21

Atkins have commenced work on Phase 1 (feasibility/scope) of this project, which will consist of 9.5km of dual carriageway between the N25 Waterford bypass at Slieverue and the N25 New Ross bypass at Glenmore. All previous work will be discarded, starting totally afresh.

The rough timeline has been published as follows:

Phase 1 (feasibility/scope) - complete by end 2019
Phase 2 (route selection) - complete by mid 2020
Phase 3 (design/EIS) - complete by mid 2021
Phase 4 (statutory process/submission of CPO/EIS to ABP) - complete by mid 2022.

Project website now live @ https://n25waterford2glenmore.ie

If this gets out of ABP by mid 2022 as per schedule we could be looking at construction in early 2024.

road_high

Stretch has a poor accident rate for some reason but certainly not the poorest quality N route out there- wouldn’t be a major priority scheme on my list- they could address the safety issues for sure and it would be ok for another while. Far worse roads around the country

marno21

road_high wrote: »

Stretch has a poor accident rate for some reason but certainly not the poorest quality N route out there- wouldn’t be a major priority scheme on my list- they could address the safety issues for sure and it would be ok for another while. Far worse roads around the country

This project should be doable for 8 figures. Whilst not at the top of the priority list, it should be possible to do it within the next 6-8 years without breaking the bank.

road_high

marno21 wrote: »

This project should be doable for 8 figures. Whilst not at the top of the priority list, it should be possible to do it within the next 6-8 years without breaking the bank.

True but I think given the loaves and fishes times we live in a far greater dividend could be had from bypassing the likes of Dungarvan, Killeigh and Castlemartyr on this road. This isn’t a bottleneck as such where as they most certainly are

marno21

road_high wrote: »

True but I think given the loaves and fishes times we live in a far greater dividend could be had from bypassing the likes of Dungarvan, Killeigh and Castlemartyr on this road. This isn’t a bottleneck as such where as they most certainly are

I agree in that regard. It's an awful pity the N25 Midleton-Youghal and N25 Dungarvan bypass schemes aren't on the cards instead.

I drove Cork-New Ross yesterday and had no issues at all on this stretch save for the roadworks at the Rhu Glenn.

The two 60km/h twists either side of Dungarvan, Dungarvan and all its roundabouts and the bad stretch east of Dungarvan were far worse.

road_high

marno21 wrote: »

I agree in that regard. It's an awful pity the N25 Midleton-Youghal and N25 Dungarvan bypass schemes aren't on the cards instead.

I drove Cork-New Ross yesterday and had no issues at all on this stretch save for the roadworks at the Rhu Glenn.

The two 60km/h twists either side of Dungarvan, Dungarvan and all its roundabouts and the bad stretch east of Dungarvan were far worse.

It was completely realigned and rebuilt late 80s/early 90s- the sane cannot be said for the stretches you mention which are as bad as ever. There’s a definite safety issue which could be addressed in the interim and money prioritised where it’s needed far worse

Chris_5339762

Don't get me started on this being anywhere on the priority list, especially over Castlemartyr, Killeagh, Dungarvan..... and thats only the N25.

marno21

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Don't get me started on this being anywhere on the priority list, especially over Castlemartyr, Killeagh, Dungarvan..... and thats only the N25.

100%. The idea that this is more urgent than Dungarvan, and Midleton-Youghal is laughable.

Harry Palmr

Beyond the fact people are having a moan it's remarkable that a 10 km section of road will take the thick end of 20 years from initial outline to likely completion!

marno21

Public consultation on route options pending lifting of covid-19 restrictions

https://n25waterford2glenmore.ie/assets/pdf/Public-Consultation-No.1-Notification-re-Covid-19.pdf

jd

Ad in Wexford People today re route selection

marno21

jd wrote: »

Ad in Wexford People today re route selection

Thanks jd

More information on the website at https://n25waterford2glenmore.ie/en/

Harry Palmr

Given the corridor width of the current road I'd have though it by far the obvious option.

Jayuu

Lots of question on this given this passage from the website

A Preferred Route Corridor was identified and this is included in the current Kilkenny County Development Plan 2014 – 2020. Due to changes in environmental legislation, design standards and to comply with the requirements of the current Public Spending Code, new route corridor options will be developed and assessed by Atkins and a new Preferred Route Corridor will be identified.

Is there any information on what the previous preferred route was compared to the new options? The implication I take from the above was that it would be too expensive to implement the previous route. This seems to be designed as a 2+2 option but is that different from HQDC? Was the previous route HQDC?

BelfastVanMan

Jayuu wrote: »

Lots of question on this given this passage from the website

A Preferred Route Corridor was identified and this is included in the current Kilkenny County Development Plan 2014 – 2020. Due to changes in environmental legislation, design standards and to comply with the requirements of the current Public Spending Code, new route corridor options will be developed and assessed by Atkins and a new Preferred Route Corridor will be identified.

Is there any information on what the previous preferred route was compared to the new options? The implication I take from the above was that it would be too expensive to implement the previous route. This seems to be designed as a 2+2 option but is that different from HQDC? Was the previous route HQDC?

I hope it is HQDC they go with; otherwise the part where they say about continuity of road standards from Kilmeaden to New Ross will be a load of hot air.

Jamie2k9

Jayuu wrote: »

Lots of question on this given this passage from the website

A Preferred Route Corridor was identified and this is included in the current Kilkenny County Development Plan 2014 – 2020. Due to changes in environmental legislation, design standards and to comply with the requirements of the current Public Spending Code, new route corridor options will be developed and assessed by Atkins and a new Preferred Route Corridor will be identified.

Is there any information on what the previous preferred route was compared to the new options? The implication I take from the above was that it would be too expensive to implement the previous route. This seems to be designed as a 2+2 option but is that different from HQDC? Was the previous route HQDC?

Pg 243 shows a route

https://www.kilkennycoco.ie/eng/Services/Community_Culture/Social-Inclusion/Kilkenny-County-Development-Plan-2014-2020.pdf

It will be very bad for the sake of 9km if they go 2+2 instead of HQDC on this route. Would I be correct no jnctions are required so HQDC verses 2+2 is likely little cost savings.

marno21

Here's what should be done imo:

Grade separate the roundabouts at Glenmore and Slieverue and provide motorway grade DC in between. Redesignate the entire stretch of N25 from Kilmeaden the R733 junction east of the bridge as M25. Then you would have 31km of motorway grade road continuously.

In the future the short sighted mess that is the M9/N24/N25 situation can be addressed.

fricatus

marno21 wrote: »

In the future the short sighted mess that is the M9/N24/N25 situation can be addressed.

Is it that awful though? I drive through it twice a day and it's fine.

Jamie2k9

Apparently DC type isn’t decided and will be determined once route selection is complete.

Chris_5339762

If this nonsense gets built, then 2+2 is more than enough for it.

marno21

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Apparently DC type isn’t decided and will be determined once route selection is complete.

Indeed. This will be fully decided in Phases 3/4 (design/planning app).

There will be a preliminary decision on cross section type at the end of the route selection phase but this is subject to change (as what happened in the M21 Limerick-Foynes scheme).

marno21

Tender out for ground investigation along the six route corridors

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/169615/0/0?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE

Carawaystick

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

If this nonsense gets built, then 2+2 is more than enough for it.

2+2 is dangerous for people cycling the route.

marno21

Carawaystick wrote: »

2+2 is dangerous for people cycling the route.

That's a reason to provide facilities for cyclists and pedestrians in a manner optimal for them rather than an issue with 2+2

Existing 100km/h unseparated roads with frequent accesses and heavy vehicles pulling into hard shoulders isn't exactly safe either.