Government agreement: Free-To-Air RTE in NI, BBC in RoI on DTT platform

Elmo

watty wrote: »

I've no idea what is on N.I. TV. But none of it will shift for "foriegn" TV. There would be trouble.

Well I hope that they at least don't place Teleshopping TV before real TV.

Tom Slick

Who are "they"?

SRB

Elmo wrote: »

Well I hope that they at least don't place Teleshopping TV before real TV.

You pay the money, you get the muxes. That's how it works.

Elmo

SRB wrote: »

You pay the money, you get the muxes. That's how it works.

I some how think "foreign" TV wouldn't get first option on such spaces.

Who are "they"?

Sorry, OfCom.

Tom Slick

SRB wrote: »

You pay the money, you get the muxes. That's how it works.

Must be good money in sh*t TV.

Souriau

Those show on TV are there because people pay for their services
even the quiz show at night, they don't do it for free, the viewers pay for it and they dial up the premium number to the show.
Any good business will run anything that make money from it.

Elmo

Souriau wrote: »

Any good business will run anything that make money from it.

Doesn't make it good or right. But then no one ever suggested otherwise.

Gerry Wicklow

If people are foolish enough to pay £1 a time to enter a daft quiz there's plenty of companies only too glad to take it.

Digifriendly

Elmo wrote: »

So what are you telling me that QVC, Channel One (soon to be Challenge), Ideal World, bid tv, price drop/gem tv won't be on FreeView NI?

The 3 main transmitters in NI (Divis/Brougher Mountain/Limavady) will carry the full Freeview Service and cover the majority of the population but most if not all relays will carry a 'Freeview Lite' service like most relays in rest of UK due to lack of available space. This will be a service minus some of the other channels on the full Freeview one.

lawhec

Just for reference, in Northern Ireland (pre-DSO), Muxs B, C & D are the same across the UK and are not (and I don't think can be) regionalised. Mux A is distributed by satellite and is part-regionalised in that some services are stripped out depending on the transmitter location. Muxs 1 & 2 of course carry local services (BBC NI, UTV etc.) and are regionalised.

Elmo

Digifriendly wrote: »

The 3 main transmitters in NI (Divis/Brougher Mountain/Limavady) will carry the full Freeview Service and cover the majority of the population but most if not all relays will carry a 'Freeview Lite' service like most relays in rest of UK due to lack of available space. This will be a service minus some of the other channels on the full Freeview one.

Let me put it another way I hope that actual TV rather than Sales TV makes it on to FreeView Light.

If people are foolish enough to pay £1 a time to enter a daft quiz there's plenty of companies only too glad to take it.

And their are plenty of ways to con people out of a €1 other than push such stuff on to television screens (especially since we have the interweb now).

Tom Slick

Elmo wrote: »

Let me put it another way I hope that actual TV rather than Sales TV makes it on to FreeView Light.

That should be the case, since it's the commercial muxes that carry these shopping channels that are unwilling to pay to upgrade the relays (bit like analogue TV3)
I believe this is the main reason for "Freeview Lite" rather than any technical one.

Elmo

Tom Slick wrote: »

That should be the case, since it's the commercial muxes that carry these shopping channels that are unwilling to pay to upgrade the relays (bit like analogue TV3)
I believe this is the main reason for "Freeview Lite" rather than any technical one.

So RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 could be placed on Freeview Lite if Sales TV are unwilling to take up those positions? And they would possibly be available to those not availing of PAY TV in rural areas.

SRB

Elmo wrote: »

So RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 could be placed on Freeview Lite if Sales TV are unwilling to take up those positions? And they would possibly be available to those not availing of PAY TV in rural areas.

No, as the commercial operators decided not to pay to upgrade the local relays, the Muxes won't be there in the first place.

SRB

Tom Slick wrote: »

That should be the case, since it's the commercial muxes that carry these shopping channels that are unwilling to pay to upgrade the relays (bit like analogue TV3)
I believe this is the main reason for "Freeview Lite" rather than any technical one.

That's correct.

Peter Henderson

watty wrote: »

I've no idea what is on N.I. TV. But none of it will shift for "foriegn" TV. There would be trouble.

Most people up here don't regard RTE as foreign TV, even those from within the Unionist community.

I think if a few shappin' channels were replaced with RTE's 1 and 2 along with TG4, few people would care.

Peter Henderson

SRB wrote: »

No, as the commercial operators decided not to pay to upgrade the local relays, the Muxes won't be there in the first place.

Indeed, Freeview Lite does't have any shappin' channels.

I suspect that if and when the two governments reach aggreement on this, the Freeview Lite transmitters will carry TG4 only, with the main transmitters (i.e. Divis, Limavady, and Brougher) having TG4 along with both RTE 1 and 2.

watty

Don't hold your breath Peter.

BTW. I remember Jordanstown well. All my relatives live either North or South of it in County Antrim. None can get DTT.

Sam the Aerialman

Peter Henderson wrote: »

Indeed, Freeview Lite does't have any shappin' channels.

I suspect that if and when the two governments reach aggreement on this, the Freeview Lite transmitters will carry TG4 only, with the main transmitters (i.e. Divis, Limavady, and Brougher) having TG4 along with both RTE 1 and 2.

It'll never happen for 2 reasons that's 44 extra channels, that would cost Arqiva and additional half a million quid to implement. Ofcom will never free up 44 frequencies for one thing whilst they're in clearance mode and Arqiva will never pay for it. The commercial multiplex owners had their chance it's done. The model will be 7 frequencies from the 3 main transmitters and three from the PSB transmitters.

The best chance to get RTE services onto UK Freeview is using the interleaved multiplexs from the three main transmitters. That is were the agreement needs to be reached and more importantly to them who's paying for it.

watty

There is no-one to pay. If Saorsat works, that will let the Southern Government "save face".

Digifriendly

Peter Henderson wrote: »

Most people up here don't regard RTE as foreign TV, even those from within the Unionist community.

I think if a few shappin' channels were replaced with RTE's 1 and 2 along with TG4, few people would care.

You're absolutely right - you only need to look at forest of RTE aerials in Unionist strongholds like Ballymena and Lisburn many of which were put quite a few years ago when RTE had live First Division football and live FA Cup semi-finals as well as live League Cup final in pre Sky days.

Elmo

watty wrote: »

There is no-one to pay. If Saorsat works, that will let the Southern Government "save face".

I think on both sides of the boarder we really should insist that the owners of the muxs place actual TV channels over Commerical Shopping Channels.

RTÉ 1, 2, TV3 and TG4 should replace at least 4 of the shopping channels in the north and if the BAI have their way with PAY DTT they should insist that the pay operater as a public service provides BBC 1, 2, UTV and C4 unencrypted on their muxs rather than getting people to pay for the likes of BET TV, QVC etc.

This swap should pay for itself. (Much more so for Channel 4 and UTV).

What is the point of having regulators?

SRB

Elmo, like them or loath them, they have as much right to be on the Commercial muxes as anyone else, look at it this way, if they weren't making money and weren't paying their way, they wouldn't be there. People do watch and do buy from them. A regulator will not "dump channels" just because some people don't like them.

Elmo

SRB wrote: »

Elmo, like them or loath them, they have as much right to be on the Commercial muxes as anyone else, look at it this way, if they weren't making money and weren't paying their way, they wouldn't be there. People do watch and do buy from them. A regulator will not "dump channels" just because some people don't like them.

It isn't that I don't like them, well it is but....

I just think that a regulator should just say oh that okay they can pay and make money. It is called regulation for a reason. These types of channels pray on people. Not only that in they won't be FTA in ROI as most people will continue to pay to have such channels on what ever commercial mux that they get.

I don't think people should go around defending con artists and bad television because ultimately they make money, that is just bull****. Sorry but that is how I feel about this type of television. Get an internet connection FFS.

The regulators are supposed to work for the people not the companies they licence.

Let face it Sky and Virgin both seemed to be able to provide a relatively alright channel on FreeView until the sky takeover, the regulator should just turn around and say no you can't turn Channel One in to an even worse channel than it already is.

watty

I agree the Regulators seem more interested in revenue and "fairness" between companies than the actual consumer. In Germany they have taken a first step in insisting that the mostly naked chat line parasite channels must be encrypted rather than Free To Air.

Sky should not be allowed to be a Platform operator and own channels. Ofcom are useless. Also Ofcom have repeatedly given OK to Sky's outlandish EPG and encryption charges.

SRB

Elmo wrote: »

I don't think people should go around defending con artists and bad television because ultimately they make money, that is just bull****. Sorry but that is how I feel about this type of television. Get an internet connection FFS.

The regulators are supposed to work for the people not the companies they licence.

Let face it Sky and Virgin both seemed to be able to provide a relatively alright channel on FreeView until the sky takeover, the regulator should just turn around and say no you can't turn Channel One in to an even worse channel than it already is.

Where do you draw the line ? There are magazines and newspapers which are on sale to attact "one type of customer" only - should they be closed too ?
The shopping channels have an audience, and serve that audience, otherwise the audience wouldn't exist. I've never watched a shopping channel in my life, but I know people who actually order from them and seem perfectly happy with what they've bought. It takes all sorts....
As for the sale of Virgin to Sky, it's no different from anyother takeover, the consumer is usually the last person to be considered.
OFCOM have been totally toothless in the UK radio market, so expecting them to be any different with TV is "wishing on a star." Given the Tories are back in power in the UK, I wouldn't expect it to get any better either.

Elmo

SRB wrote: »

Where do you draw the line ? There are magazines and newspapers which are on sale to attact "one type of customer" only - should they be closed too ?
The shopping channels have an audience, and serve that audience, otherwise the audience wouldn't exist. I've never watched a shopping channel in my life, but I know people who actually order from them and seem perfectly happy with what they've bought. It takes all sorts....
As for the sale of Virgin to Sky, it's no different from anyother takeover, the consumer is usually the last person to be considered.
OFCOM have been totally toothless in the UK radio market, so expecting them to be any different with TV is "wishing on a star." Given the Tories are back in power in the UK, I wouldn't expect it to get any better either.

Just because something has an audience does not mean it is good or should be defended. I would have thought that these types of TV channels would have died because of the Internet. These channels add nothing to any service the customer receives. Going back to the Commerical muxs here most applications sought to put telemarketing channels on their PAY offerings, I don't see why people would want to pay for that, whatever about channels you can get FTA.

SRB

Elmo wrote: »

I would have thought that these types of TV channels would have died because of the Internet.

But they haven't because, strange as it may seem, not everyone uses the internet to shop, look at the number of high street home shopping catalogues still in circulation in th UK.

Elmo wrote: »

These channels add nothing to any service the customer receives.

The people who use them would disagree, should they be ignored because some people don't like them ?

Personally I think It would have been better to have a fixed number of tele marketing slots and then these could have been "bid for" by interested companies.

Elmo

SRB wrote: »

Personally I think It would have been better to have a fixed number of tele marketing slots and then these could have been "bid for" by interested companies.

But this would be regulation. But yes I would agree to that, 2 telemarketing channels that would sell their hours to telemarketing companies such as QVC.

sesswhat

Don't know if there is anything new in it but there is a front page story in the Irish News about RTE on NI Freeview.