Driving in the 4 lane part of the M50?

Wishbone Ash

oxegen85 wrote: »

I dont see the why people would get so animated with people who hog the middle lane.. Isnt there another lane to the right to overtake if theyre annoying you that much?

That would be illegal for those of us who drive large vehicles.

Thumpette

The thing which I dont understand (while I promise not to be a middle lane hogger anymore- pinky swear!)- If I am driving in the middle lane, and I come across someone driving slower than me on the middle lane, I overtake them in the right lane. I think its much worse when someone hoggs the right lane cos then you really are stuck, but when there is a whole other lane there, why bother beeping and raising your bp, and why not just overtake rather than dangerously undertake?

Wishbone Ash

Thumpette wrote: »

why bother beeping and raising your bp, and why not just overtake?

See post #32.

Thumpette

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

See post #32.

Yeah sorry- saw that post after I'd posted mine... but... there are plenty regular old cars who do the same without your watertight excuse!

crc

Thumpette wrote: »

Yeah sorry- saw that post after I'd posted mine... but... there are plenty regular old cars who do the same without your watertight excuse!

Because say you're in lane 1, and you're going faster than a car in front in lane 2, you need to swerve out across 2 lanes at once just to over-take legally, and then cross back over 2 lanes once you've overtaken.

And then there are those other times when you don't want to / can't enter lane 3 because of fast or aggressive drivers, and all you want to do is get past the idiot in lane 2 who can't see the enormous gap in lane 1.

God I hate the Naas Rd!

Guy:Incognito

oxegen85 wrote: »

I dont see the why people would get so animated with people who hog the middle lane.. Isnt there another lane to the right to overtake if theyre annoying you that much?

The thing thats happening there then is that every car that comes up in the left lanes has to change lanes twice to overtake the person in the middle lane and twice more to go back to the left lane to overtake legally. The fact that most people I encouter actually manage to trundle along in the middle lane at a good bit under the speed limit. This causes huge amounts of cars to be swutchign lanes all over the place just because some people can't use lanes properly.

I travel between Tallaght and Clondalkin most days and just by staying in the left lane and at the speed limit I end up undertaking about 20 cars. Thats in a stretch of road probably kess than 2km long. Most of the time, due to the Tallaght junction being signal controlled you end up joinging the motorway in a line of cars. Everytime without fail, 90% of the line moves straight to the middle lane and never get to the speed limit. For me to stay properly legal I'd have to move with them, then overtake them and move back across the two lanes into the empty lane I had no intention of leaving in the first place. It's ****ing ridiculous.

wyrn

I was driving down the M50 today (keeping this very forum in mind) and found myself driving in the middle lane. This was because a few exits before mine the left lane became the exit lane for those junctions.

The sooner they finish the M50 the better - the amount of confusion. I saw one car who had to stop because they had stuck to the left lane and didn't realise it was an exit lane until it was too late.

I wonder if we were all driving at the same speed (give or take a few km/h) would there be less agro on the motorways? I find it's the excessive speeders than the hoggers that raise my bp.

Fair play to the OP for asking the question.

Guy:Incognito

wyrn wrote: »

I was driving down the M50 today (keeping this very forum in mind) and found myself driving in the middle lane. This was because a few exits before mine the left lane became the exit lane for those junctions.

The sooner they finish the M50 the better - the amount of confusion. I saw one car who had to stop because they had stuck to the left lane and didn't realise it was an exit lane until it was too late.
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TBH the fault for people getting stuck in a dissappearing lane lies with the drivers. The lanes drop to 2 at Tallaght where the left lane goes off but it is signposted from Ballymount with both fixed signs and the mobile electronic sign.

As for the 2nd part about people stopping? Nobody HAS to stop and it's idiocy of the highest order on a motorway. All motorway junctions have on and off ramps. If these people find they are stuck on an off ramp and cant make it back to the carriagway in time, the easiest and safest thing is to continue off and go back down the other side.

wyrn wrote: »

I wonder if we were all driving at the same speed (give or take a few km/h) would there be less agro on the motorways? I find it's the excessive speeders than the hoggers that raise my bp.
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There is a big problem on motorways here with people going too slow. Theres no reason to be driving at 60-80kmph(or slower) on a 100-120kmph motorway. Even less reason to be doing it in the middle lane.

2manyconditions

Stekelly wrote: »

There is a big problem on motorways here with people going too slow. Theres no reason to be driving at 60-80kmph(or slower) on a 100-120kmph motorway. Even less reason to be doing it in the middle lane.

Firstly - 120 is a limit NOT a target!

Second - Once you are over the minimum speed you are intitled to travel at any speed between that and the max

And just to make the point, my car is a 1L engine, the steering is painful above 95k/hr if I even get to that speed. Not every1 can afford a fancy 3L TDI or whatever they're called. And speed down the motorway at 140k/hr.

Guy:Incognito

2manyconditions wrote: »

Firstly - 120 is a limit NOT a target!
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Jesus, this old chesnut. Go ask a driver from a country with a decent motorway network how to use one.

Have you done your test? If not why dont you tak eone and do the whole thing at half the speed limit. See do you pass. Be sure to let the tester know it's not a target when he sends you away.

2manyconditions wrote: »

Second - Once you are over the minimum speed you are intitled to travel at any speed between that and the max.

Travelling well under the speed limit causes probelms on motorways, even worse when a good chunk of the people around you also dont know how to use motorways properly.

Just becasue no one has had the foresight to introduce a minimum speed limit doesnt means you have to go out of your way to go slow.

2manyconditions wrote: »

And just to make the point, my car is a 1L engine, the steering is painful above 95k/hr if I even get to that speed. Not every1 can afford a fancy 3L TDI or whatever they're called. And speed down the motorway at 140k/hr.[/.

Who said you have to go 140?

If your car can't handle speeds of 95kmph without issue theres something wrong with it. We're talking less than 60 miles an hour in old money here I've yet to come across a car that can't do that safely unless it was defective.



and the word entitled is used far to often among Irish drivers. People need to know that they are not entitled to do as they please.

copacetic

Stekelly wrote: »

As for the 2nd part about people stopping? Nobody HAS to stop and it's idiocy of the highest order on a motorway. All motorway junctions have on and off ramps. If these people find they are stuck on an off ramp and cant make it back to the carriagway in time, the easiest and safest thing is to continue off and go back down the other side.

Agreed, they didn't 'have to stop' they should have just driven off the exit. I can only imagine they stopped and they rejoined the motorway from a standing start. These are the kind of people who shouldn't be allowed on the roads.

You see it quite a bit on the roads here, people are in wrong lanes, realise too late and instead of putting themselves out, try to cause accidents by forcing their way back into the lane they wanted at last minute.

Lord Nikon

I'd rather be an excessive speeder than an excessive hogger.

4 lane motorway with 100k/mh speed limit, bah humbug.

daveharnett

2manyconditions wrote: »

Second - Once you are over the minimum speed you are intitled to travel at any speed between that and the max.

You're entitled to swim down the liffey to work at any speed you like, but I wouldn't recommend that either.

2manyconditions wrote: »

And just to make the point, my car is a 1L engine, the steering is painful above 95k/hr if I even get to that speed. Not every1 can afford a fancy 3L TDI or whatever they're called. And speed down the motorway at 140k/hr.

In all seriousness, if this is true then your car is not roadworthy, and you should get it off the road today. You can buy a car that can safely maintain the national speed limit (a working 1L car will do fine) for less than a weeks wages. For your own safety and everyone else's, please do so.

Victor

hi5 wrote: »

If your in this lane can you undertake the traffic in the 3 main lanes?
Does anybody have a link to exact rules that apply? Thanks.

DubTony wrote: »

Whether or not you can "undertake" on this lane is a whole other question. I have a feeling it'll be tested in court some day.

Traffic in the auxiliary lane is turning left, the rest of hte traffic should be going straight on.

hi5 wrote: »

This would then mean the traffic on the 3 main lanes have to give way to the possibly faster traffic on the dedicated lane should they decide to take the approaching exit.

Correct. But the traffic in the 3 main lanes would have several km to make the manoeuvre.

bongi69

Stekelly wrote: »

I travel between Tallaght and Clondalkin most days and just by staying in the left lane and at the speed limit I end up undertaking about 20 cars. Thats in a stretch of road probably kess than 2km long. Most of the time, due to the Tallaght junction being signal controlled you end up joinging the motorway in a line of cars. Everytime without fail, 90% of the line moves straight to the middle lane and never get to the speed limit. For me to stay properly legal I'd have to move with them, then overtake them and move back across the two lanes into the empty lane I had no intention of leaving in the first place. It's ****ing ridiculous.

+1.
My main use of the M50 is northbound between Ballymount and the N4 turnoff to go towards Liffey Valley. When entering the motorway, the left hand lane of the motorway (not the lane between ballymount and red cow) is generally empty with the traffic in the middle lane all in a line doing about 90kmh. When starting down the slip road I accelerate to 100kmh, and upon entering the motorway I'm already undertaking traffic. And since they're all in a line, to enter this line I have to wait for one of them to let me in, and thus slow down. So what I end up doing is just staying in the left hand lane, matching the speed of the middle lane, and getting into the slip lane for the N4 junction ASAP after Red Cow

DubTony

CharlieCroker wrote: »

While I understand your frustration with the N7 (I've experienced it plenty of times too), the penalty for undertaking (Dangerous Driving) is usually a lot higher than that of not driving in the left hand lane (Driving without reasonable consideration).

Actually it's not frustration at all. I don't break the speed limit and consistently come across lines of cars in the middle lane along all parts of N7. I'm with Stekelly on this one. These idiots are traveling in a line at 70-80K per hour and I'll need to make excessive lane changes to get past them.

I join the N7 at Citywest or Saggart / Rathcoole heading south in the mornings, and I'm amazed at how empty that lane will be all the way to the Naas / Sallins turnoff.

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I don't understand that very immature mentality. You criticise others for their lack of professionalism and then do something which is much worse.

Yeah, yeah. Immature mentality :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

If the so called professional drivers did as they're supposed to do and pulled into Lane 1 like good citizens it'd leave a lot more space for everybody else. Truckers and bus drivers are repeat offenders on the N7. It seems to me they get into the middle lane after the Red Cow interchange and stay in the f*cking thing until it actually becomes the inside lane at Naas, because they're too f*cking lazy or ignorant (or both) to drive where they're supposed to. Even the Northies are doing it now (and I know they've no excuse).

I was behind a British registered truck on Sunday afternoon. It was a pleasure to watch his professionalism. He indicated in good time, made his move, indicated again and pulled back in leaving plenty of room for the vehicle he'd just passed. It was amazing to see a real professional trucker at his work. But then, maybe he just gives a sh*te.

CharlieCroker

DubTony wrote: »

Actually it's not frustration at all. I don't break the speed limit and consistently come across lines of cars in the middle lane along all parts of N7. I'm with Stekelly on this one. These idiots are traveling in a line at 70-80K per hour and I'll need to make excessive lane changes to get past them.

I join the N7 at Citywest or Saggart / Rathcoole heading south in the mornings, and I'm amazed at how empty that lane will be all the way to the Naas / Sallins turnoff.

I agree that people need to be more responsible on the roads and i have pulled people over and cautioned them regarding their driving for staying in the outside lane for no need. But you also need to be responsible. By law, if you want to pass a car in lane 2 (middle), you're required if in lane 1, to move to lane 3 to pass and then move back over. But I know plenty of other Gardai who've prosecuted drivers for dangerous driving for undertaking. If that driver decides to pull into lane 1 from lane 2, he's not going to expect you to be there and prob won't look. If he makes contact with you, its you who will be deemed at fault.

Guy:Incognito

CharlieCroker wrote: »

If that driver decides to pull into lane 1 from lane 2, he's not going to expect you to be there and prob won't look. If he makes contact with you, its you who will be deemed at fault.

But how far is deemed to be undertaking? If I'm travelling at the speed limit and a guy pulls across me clipping the front of my car, I havent undertaken him yet.


Either way, surely due care and attention applies here? You have to be expected to check any lane before pullign into it, regardless of whether it's to your left or right. What happens if someone has just merged onto the main carriageway and are now in the driving lane? they cant be deemed responsible if someone decides to veer from the middle lane crashes into them.


Just on the subject of bad driving . I was comign from Clondalkin to Tallaght tonight at around 10. I came down the slip in the inside lane, guy in a red Astra (iirc) coming down behind me who, like the hoards fo people I see when it's busy, moves to the right hand slip lane (this isnt an issue when theres no traffic but for some stupid reason 90% of the people in heavy traffic some down the slip roads and all move to the right lane that abruptly ends with a gap of about 50m between the sets of hatchings, meanign 4 or 5 cars grouped together all trying to merge simulatneously before the lanes ends into heavy traffic, while I calmy stay int he left lane that continues for the length of the road to the next junction, giving any amount of time needed to build up speed and find a proper gap, when wil these idiots learn :rolleyes:). He ends up back behind me after I've built up speed and merged on to the carriageway.

He sits there till Ballymount where he then moves to the middle lane (theres no other cars around) getting closer to tallaght he inches closer to me on the outside around 5kmph quicker than me and eventually passes by me as I'm about 100m from the slip for Tallaght. By the time I get to the slip he's about 20m ahead at which point he suddenly decides to jam on on the main carriageway and make a dive through the cones to get to the slip, meaning I had to brake thinking he's comign through the cones into my lane.:rolleyes:

Seriously, what is wrong with people?

flamegrill

The rules of the road state that you may undertake on a dual carriage way / motor way on the inside lane if and only if your lane of traffic is moving faster than the outside lane.

So if I'm in lane 1 doing 100Km/h (since I get onto the N7) and I'm passing lots of idiots in lane 2, am I breaking the law? Technically no. But what would Charlie and his co-workers think of me? I duno.

DubTony

flamegrill wrote: »

The rules of the road state that you may undertake on a dual carriage way / motor way on the inside lane if and only if your lane of traffic is moving faster than the outside lane.

So if I'm in lane 1 doing 100Km/h (since I get onto the N7) and I'm passing lots of idiots in lane 2, am I breaking the law? Technically no. But what would Charlie and his co-workers think of me? I duno.

Actually the term used isn't slower traffic, it's "Slowly moving traffic". There's a difference.

CharlieCroker

Stekelly wrote: »

But how far is deemed to be undertaking? If I'm travelling at the speed limit and a guy pulls across me clipping the front of my car, I havent undertaken him yet.

If he's overtaking you, it's his fault. If you're undertaking, it's yours. That would be my opinion on the matter

Either way, surely due care and attention applies here? You have to be expected to check any lane before pullign into it, regardless of whether it's to your left or right. What happens if someone has just merged onto the main carriageway and are now in the driving lane? they cant be deemed responsible if someone decides to veer from the middle lane crashes into them.

I agree, the law is FAR from perfect. But the driver behind needs to leave sufficient space due to the larger blindspot on the lefthand side of the car to the right.

flamegrill wrote: »

The rules of the road state that you may undertake on a dual carriage way / motor way on the inside lane if and only if your lane of traffic is moving faster than the outside lane.

So if I'm in lane 1 doing 100Km/h (since I get onto the N7) and I'm passing lots of idiots in lane 2, am I breaking the law? Technically no. But what would Charlie and his co-workers think of me? I duno.

Technically you are breaking the law because your undertaking. You can only pass on the left when both lanes are moving slowly and traffic in the left lane is moving quicker. I wouldn't consider 100km/h on the N7 slow.


You may overtake on the left when

• You want to go straight ahead when the driver in front of you has moved out and signalled that they intend to turn right.
• You have signalled that you intend to turn left.
• Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/good-driving-practice/overtaking.html

DubTony

CharlieCroker wrote: »

I agree that people need to be more responsible on the roads and i have pulled people over and cautioned them regarding their driving for staying in the outside lane for no need. But you also need to be responsible. By law, if you want to pass a car in lane 2 (middle), you're required if in lane 1, to move to lane 3 to pass and then move back over. But I know plenty of other Gardai who've prosecuted drivers for dangerous driving for undertaking. If that driver decides to pull into lane 1 from lane 2, he's not going to expect you to be there and prob won't look. If he makes contact with you, its you who will be deemed at fault.

I agree. And I applaud you for taking that view of "lane-hoggers". But maybe a little more than a caution would put the word out and help keep our major roads moving a little better.

As for undertaking. Well, there are unwritten rules. Watch their wheels, only ever undertake when there's an empty hard shoulder, and if you do get caught, make sure you put an Amurican twang on your accent and explain how it's a free-for-all over there.

CharlieCroker

DubTony wrote: »

I agree. And I applaud you for taking that view of "lane-hoggers". But maybe a little more than a caution would put the word out and help keep our major roads moving a little better.

As for undertaking. Well, there are unwritten rules. Watch their wheels, only ever undertake when there's an empty hard shoulder, and if you do get caught, make sure you put an Amurican twang on your accent and explain how it's a free-for-all over there.

Tbh, I find giving a caution and a little bit of education goes a hell of a lot further than giving a ticket most of the time. Either give a bollocking or a ticket, not both! Thats just my ethos of working.

As for the undertaking, there are no unwritten rules. Its either wrong or right and looking at your post, you know its wrong. While a word in the ear will usually do the trick, if I stop a driver and they begin giving stupid excuses or refuse to admit that they've done anything wrong, then i'll take it further and let them explain it to a judge.

Contrary to what a lot of people believe, most gardai out there aren't out to get you and don't pull people over just because they're bored, its done for a reason.

DubTony

Did I use the wrong smilie?

celticbest

I've being using lane one for the majority of my journey on the M50S over the last two mornings since they open the Auxiliary lanes between Junctions, I have not exceeded the newly implemented 100km/h speed limit introduced as a result of these lanes opening. I'm constantly undertaking cars whom are hogging lanes two & three as they think it is there right to just sit in these lanes doing whatever speed they want.

All it takes is a proper advertising campaign with the warning that people will start getting penalty points for sitting in lanes two and three if not overtaking (within the speed limit), once this campaign has run long enough for everyone to have either seen it on TV or heard it on Radio, a dedicated Garda Traffic Corp Patrol should police the road for a few months and then intermittently after that insuring people drive correctly.

Also the amount of Lorries both Rigid and Arctic that sit in lane two and even at stages use lane three is a joke, no other country in Europe would allow them to do this and these are supposed to be professional drivers - not all lorries as some obey the rules of the road but it's still a significant amount.

The law on how to drive on a motorway be it two, three, four or five lanes wide makes no difference, you should drive in lane one unless overtaking and then move back into lane one as soon as possible once finished overtaking. This is covered as part of the rules of the road which every driver is supposed to know before sitting there driving test.( You may well be asked this question by the examiner).

All that is required is proper enforcement of the laws.