Driving in the 4 lane part of the M50?

Thumpette

Hey all,

I was just curious about the correct way to drive on the parts of the M50 with 4 lanes.

It is my understanding that the furthest left lane isnt really part of the M50 in that it is the exit lane to the next exit.

That being correct we are left with 3 lanes. I stay on the Motorway until the M1/M50 roundabout so I normally stay in the middle lane of these 3, as my understanding is that the far right lane is for overtaking, the 2nd lane from the left is the 'preparation to go into the exit lane', so the obvious one for me to sit in would be this 2nd from the right.

I usually do the speed limit here if traffic allows however I have been flashed a couple of times- leading me to wonder if im wrong in where I am!

Any help in clearing this up appreciated!

Alanstrainor

The keep left rule applies. Stay in the left most lane unless you are overtaking. This applies on all motorways, be they 2 or 3 lane.

flamegrill

The 4th lane is a lane for people going between exits. It's ok to go into this lane as you approach your exit.

You'll note the lines between the main 3 carriage ways and the left most lane are different thus pointing out that it's not the same.

Paul

oxegen85

Alanstrainor wrote: »

The keep left rule applies. Stay in the left most lane unless you are overtaking. This applies on all motorways, be they 2 or 3 lane.

we all know that doesnt happen though

Guy:Incognito

Alanstrainor wrote: »

The keep left rule applies. Stay in the left most lane unless you are overtaking. This applies on all motorways, be they 2 or 3 lane.

Just to be clear Alanstraitor means the leftmost of the 3 diving lanes. The staging lane has deliberate markings to distinguish it from the main carriageway and is only used for exiting/entering the motorway.


OP the Middle and outside lanes are both for overtaking so unless you are you should be in the left lane.

Guy:Incognito

oxegen85 wrote: »

we all know that doesnt happen though

Thats only because of stupid and/or ignorant drivers.

daveharnett

Stekelly wrote: »

OP the Middle and outside lanes are both for overtaking so unless you are you should be in the left lane.

This ^
Well done for asking OP. Life would be a little easier if more people took the time to inform themselves.

Berty

Long Story Short OP.

You are driving in the wrong lane.

Hopefully you might take on board the advice from the people here and drive in the left lane until you actually need to overtake.

Hopefully you might ignore those who come on here winging that you should have known in the first place.

Victor

The very left lane should essentially be treated as a separate carriageway. You should only cross between that lane and the other lanes when joining or leaving the motorway.

oxegen85 wrote: »

we all know that doesnt happen though

And hence the term "middle lane moron". Sorry Thumpette.

It is not unreasonable to stay in the middle lane it you are constantly passing traffic in the left lane at a substantially higher speed. If the left lane is empty for some distance ahead, you must move in.

---

Similarly on the M2 in Belfast as it is approaching the M5, there is a heavy line indicating that traffic on the 3 lefthand lanes shouldn't interact with the traffic on the two righthand lanes. http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=t33712gh5zbz&scene=12503220&lvl=2&sty=o

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=belfast&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=25.981365,47.460937&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Belfast,+County+Antrim,+United+Kingdom&ll=54.619303,-5.920858&spn=0.000578,0.002473&t=k&z=19

Wishbone Ash

daveharnett wrote: »

Life would be a little easier if more people took the time to inform themselves.

.......or if the NRA would provide proper signage. On part of the M1 heading north, the overhead gantry indicates that the left lane is for 'SWORDS' and the right lane is for 'BELFAST'. :rolleyes:

oxegen85

im not saying that this is what should be done... just outlining what actually happens instead of what is meant to happen

Thumpette

Thanks guys,

I'll certainly take it on board. There does seem to be a fair bit of confusion over this though. I've asked at least half a dozen people and got a lot of different answers.

It's a pity really they dont add motorway driving skills into driving lessons... In fairness if you arent allowed to go on a motorway until they day you pass your test, and then suddenly you are set loose on potentially such a driving environment, is it any wonder there is confusion!

Victor

Thumpette wrote: »

It's a pity really they dont add motorway driving skills into driving lessons...

No harm in doing an advanced driving course.

Absurdum

Thumpette wrote: »

Thanks guys,

I'll certainly take it on board. There does seem to be a fair bit of confusion over this though. I've asked at least half a dozen people and got a lot of different answers.

It's a pity really they dont add motorway driving skills into driving lessons... In fairness if you arent allowed to go on a motorway until they day you pass your test, and then suddenly you are set loose on potentially such a driving environment, is it any wonder there is confusion!

How on earth is it confusing? It couldn't be more straightforward!

Guy:Incognito

Thumpette wrote: »

Thanks guys,

I'll certainly take it on board. There does seem to be a fair bit of confusion over this though. I've asked at least half a dozen people and got a lot of different answers.

!

There shouldnt be any confusion. It's the same system used everywhere and it's detailed in the rules of the road that was delivered free to every household.

People just need to learn some personal responsibility and learn things that might not be explained to them in every detail by the authorities.

Absurdum

Stekelly wrote: »

People just need to learn some personal responsibility and learn things that might not be explained to them in every detail by the authorities.

or get the bus

hi5

flamegrill wrote: »

The 4th lane is a lane for people going between exits. It's ok to go into this lane as you approach your exit.

You'll note the lines between the main 3 carriage ways and the left most lane are different thus pointing out that it's not the same.

Paul

If your in this lane can you undertake the traffic in the 3 main lanes?
Does anybody have a link to exact rules that apply? Thanks.

Berty

hi5 wrote: »

If your in this lane can you undertake the traffic in the 3 main lanes?
Does anybody have a link to exact rules that apply? Thanks.

Its a separate carraigeway rather like a bus lane.

You would not expect a bus to wait for traffic to move outside of the bus lane before it moves. Same thing really but the lane cannot be used for jumping traffic queues.

Thumpette

Stekelly wrote: »

There shouldnt be any confusion. It's the same system used everywhere and it's detailed in the rules of the road that was delivered free to every household.

People just need to learn some personal responsibility and learn things that might not be explained to them in every detail by the authorities.

Jesus I forgot how sanctimonious some people can be on this thread. I was asking for some genuine advise and I was thanking the people for providing such.

Seriously- I wish we were all as all knowing as yourself...

hi5

Berty wrote: »

Its a separate carraigeway rather like a bus lane.

You would not expect a bus to wait for traffic to move outside of the bus lane before it moves. Same thing really but the lane cannot be used for jumping traffic queues.

Thanks Berty,I thought as much.
This would then mean the traffic on the 3 main lanes have to give way to the possibly faster traffic on the dedicated lane should they decide to take the approaching exit.

Guy:Incognito

Thumpette wrote: »

Jesus I forgot how sanctimonious some people can be on this thread. I was asking for some genuine advise and I was thanking the people for providing such.

Seriously- I wish we were all as all knowing as yourself...

Firstly, it wasnt an attack in you. Maybe you overestimate your importance?:)

Secondly, I know stuff because I choose to learn it. All the information is there if you want it.

ardmacha

This would then mean the traffic on the 3 main lanes have to give way to the possibly faster traffic on the dedicated lane should they decide to take the approaching exit.

The auxiliary lane runs all the way between the junctions, mostly these are quite a distance apart. Consequently you have several minutes driving to move into the auxiliary lane. You shouldn't have major problem if you don't wait until the very last point that you can swerve into it, which seems to be what some people do.

Lord Nikon

If I got onto the M50 at Palmerstown Junction heading for Red Cow junction, would using the leftmost lane for the journey be okay?

Also, would moving at a higher speed in this lane be acceptable?

macplaxton

neuromancer wrote: »

If I got onto the M50 at Palmerstown Junction heading for Red Cow junction, would using the leftmost lane for the journey be okay?

Also, would moving at a higher speed in this lane be acceptable?

I'd say so, as I considered it a running lane.

crc

hi5 wrote: »

Does anybody have a link to exact rules that apply? Thanks.

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/motorways/on-the-motorway.html

unkel

macplaxton wrote: »

I'd say so, as I considered it a running lane.

+1

It's like a "local lane". There is no need to join the motorway if you're exiting at the next junction

DubTony

neuromancer wrote: »

If I got onto the M50 at Palmerstown Junction heading for Red Cow junction, would using the leftmost lane for the journey be okay?

Also, would moving at a higher speed in this lane be acceptable?

It is definitely ok to stay in the "leftmost lane" for the journey. The lane was designed as such to allow drivers to travel between junctions without entering the main carraigeway (motorway)

Whether or not you can "undertake" on this lane is a whole other question. I have a feeling it'll be tested in court some day.

To the OP. Good for you for asking the question. There are way too many people who never ask it, or ignore the advice when it's given. A few of us around here can get a bit hot under the collar when this comes up.

Personally I go a little loopy when I come upon a middle lane hogger. I've even gone so far as to undertake 5 or 6 cars together on the N7 as I blew my horn at them. :eek: What I can't understand is why people do it at all. To me it just feels wrong. Anyway, if we could just get the truckers and bus drivers to pull over it'd be a pretty good start. Professional drivers my arse.

Wishbone Ash

hi5 wrote: »

This would then mean the traffic on the 3 main lanes have to give way to the possibly faster traffic on the dedicated lane should they decide to take the approaching exit.

It's a basic rule of motoring - only change lane if it is safe to do so and only after indicating one's intention to do so!

CharlieCroker

DubTony wrote: »

I've even gone so far as to undertake 5 or 6 cars together on the N7 as I blew my horn at them. :eek:

While I understand your frustration with the N7 (I've experienced it plenty of times too), the penalty for undertaking (Dangerous Driving) is usually a lot higher than that of not driving in the left hand lane (Driving without reasonable consideration).

Wishbone Ash

DubTony wrote: »

Personally I go a little loopy when I come upon a middle lane hogger. I've even gone so far as to undertake 5 or 6 cars together on the N7 as I blew my horn at them. :eek: What I can't understand is why people do it at all. To me it just feels wrong. Anyway, if we could just get the truckers and bus drivers to pull over it'd be a pretty good start. Professional drivers my arse.

I don't understand that very immature mentality. You criticise others for their lack of professionalism and then do something which is much worse. :rolleyes:

oxegen85

I dont see the why people would get so animated with people who hog the middle lane.. Isnt there another lane to the right to overtake if theyre annoying you that much? Not that im in the middle lane much but if theres somone there and you need to get past quicker just overtake them in the overtaking lane to the right.. and the prople who say they undertake when they met a middle lane hogger... arent ye doing the same thing with being behind this car?

Wishbone Ash

oxegen85 wrote: »

I dont see the why people would get so animated with people who hog the middle lane.. Isnt there another lane to the right to overtake if theyre annoying you that much?

That would be illegal for those of us who drive large vehicles.

Thumpette

The thing which I dont understand (while I promise not to be a middle lane hogger anymore- pinky swear!)- If I am driving in the middle lane, and I come across someone driving slower than me on the middle lane, I overtake them in the right lane. I think its much worse when someone hoggs the right lane cos then you really are stuck, but when there is a whole other lane there, why bother beeping and raising your bp, and why not just overtake rather than dangerously undertake?

Wishbone Ash

Thumpette wrote: »

why bother beeping and raising your bp, and why not just overtake?

See post #32.

Thumpette

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

See post #32.

Yeah sorry- saw that post after I'd posted mine... but... there are plenty regular old cars who do the same without your watertight excuse!

crc

Thumpette wrote: »

Yeah sorry- saw that post after I'd posted mine... but... there are plenty regular old cars who do the same without your watertight excuse!

Because say you're in lane 1, and you're going faster than a car in front in lane 2, you need to swerve out across 2 lanes at once just to over-take legally, and then cross back over 2 lanes once you've overtaken.

And then there are those other times when you don't want to / can't enter lane 3 because of fast or aggressive drivers, and all you want to do is get past the idiot in lane 2 who can't see the enormous gap in lane 1.

God I hate the Naas Rd!

Guy:Incognito

oxegen85 wrote: »

I dont see the why people would get so animated with people who hog the middle lane.. Isnt there another lane to the right to overtake if theyre annoying you that much?

The thing thats happening there then is that every car that comes up in the left lanes has to change lanes twice to overtake the person in the middle lane and twice more to go back to the left lane to overtake legally. The fact that most people I encouter actually manage to trundle along in the middle lane at a good bit under the speed limit. This causes huge amounts of cars to be swutchign lanes all over the place just because some people can't use lanes properly.

I travel between Tallaght and Clondalkin most days and just by staying in the left lane and at the speed limit I end up undertaking about 20 cars. Thats in a stretch of road probably kess than 2km long. Most of the time, due to the Tallaght junction being signal controlled you end up joinging the motorway in a line of cars. Everytime without fail, 90% of the line moves straight to the middle lane and never get to the speed limit. For me to stay properly legal I'd have to move with them, then overtake them and move back across the two lanes into the empty lane I had no intention of leaving in the first place. It's ****ing ridiculous.

wyrn

I was driving down the M50 today (keeping this very forum in mind) and found myself driving in the middle lane. This was because a few exits before mine the left lane became the exit lane for those junctions.

The sooner they finish the M50 the better - the amount of confusion. I saw one car who had to stop because they had stuck to the left lane and didn't realise it was an exit lane until it was too late.

I wonder if we were all driving at the same speed (give or take a few km/h) would there be less agro on the motorways? I find it's the excessive speeders than the hoggers that raise my bp.

Fair play to the OP for asking the question.

Guy:Incognito

wyrn wrote: »

I was driving down the M50 today (keeping this very forum in mind) and found myself driving in the middle lane. This was because a few exits before mine the left lane became the exit lane for those junctions.

The sooner they finish the M50 the better - the amount of confusion. I saw one car who had to stop because they had stuck to the left lane and didn't realise it was an exit lane until it was too late.
.

TBH the fault for people getting stuck in a dissappearing lane lies with the drivers. The lanes drop to 2 at Tallaght where the left lane goes off but it is signposted from Ballymount with both fixed signs and the mobile electronic sign.

As for the 2nd part about people stopping? Nobody HAS to stop and it's idiocy of the highest order on a motorway. All motorway junctions have on and off ramps. If these people find they are stuck on an off ramp and cant make it back to the carriagway in time, the easiest and safest thing is to continue off and go back down the other side.

wyrn wrote: »

I wonder if we were all driving at the same speed (give or take a few km/h) would there be less agro on the motorways? I find it's the excessive speeders than the hoggers that raise my bp.
.

There is a big problem on motorways here with people going too slow. Theres no reason to be driving at 60-80kmph(or slower) on a 100-120kmph motorway. Even less reason to be doing it in the middle lane.

2manyconditions

Stekelly wrote: »

There is a big problem on motorways here with people going too slow. Theres no reason to be driving at 60-80kmph(or slower) on a 100-120kmph motorway. Even less reason to be doing it in the middle lane.

Firstly - 120 is a limit NOT a target!

Second - Once you are over the minimum speed you are intitled to travel at any speed between that and the max

And just to make the point, my car is a 1L engine, the steering is painful above 95k/hr if I even get to that speed. Not every1 can afford a fancy 3L TDI or whatever they're called. And speed down the motorway at 140k/hr.

Guy:Incognito

2manyconditions wrote: »

Firstly - 120 is a limit NOT a target!
.

Jesus, this old chesnut. Go ask a driver from a country with a decent motorway network how to use one.

Have you done your test? If not why dont you tak eone and do the whole thing at half the speed limit. See do you pass. Be sure to let the tester know it's not a target when he sends you away.

2manyconditions wrote: »

Second - Once you are over the minimum speed you are intitled to travel at any speed between that and the max.

Travelling well under the speed limit causes probelms on motorways, even worse when a good chunk of the people around you also dont know how to use motorways properly.

Just becasue no one has had the foresight to introduce a minimum speed limit doesnt means you have to go out of your way to go slow.

2manyconditions wrote: »

And just to make the point, my car is a 1L engine, the steering is painful above 95k/hr if I even get to that speed. Not every1 can afford a fancy 3L TDI or whatever they're called. And speed down the motorway at 140k/hr.[/.

Who said you have to go 140?

If your car can't handle speeds of 95kmph without issue theres something wrong with it. We're talking less than 60 miles an hour in old money here I've yet to come across a car that can't do that safely unless it was defective.



and the word entitled is used far to often among Irish drivers. People need to know that they are not entitled to do as they please.

copacetic

Stekelly wrote: »

As for the 2nd part about people stopping? Nobody HAS to stop and it's idiocy of the highest order on a motorway. All motorway junctions have on and off ramps. If these people find they are stuck on an off ramp and cant make it back to the carriagway in time, the easiest and safest thing is to continue off and go back down the other side.

Agreed, they didn't 'have to stop' they should have just driven off the exit. I can only imagine they stopped and they rejoined the motorway from a standing start. These are the kind of people who shouldn't be allowed on the roads.

You see it quite a bit on the roads here, people are in wrong lanes, realise too late and instead of putting themselves out, try to cause accidents by forcing their way back into the lane they wanted at last minute.

Lord Nikon

I'd rather be an excessive speeder than an excessive hogger.

4 lane motorway with 100k/mh speed limit, bah humbug.

daveharnett

2manyconditions wrote: »

Second - Once you are over the minimum speed you are intitled to travel at any speed between that and the max.

You're entitled to swim down the liffey to work at any speed you like, but I wouldn't recommend that either.

2manyconditions wrote: »

And just to make the point, my car is a 1L engine, the steering is painful above 95k/hr if I even get to that speed. Not every1 can afford a fancy 3L TDI or whatever they're called. And speed down the motorway at 140k/hr.

In all seriousness, if this is true then your car is not roadworthy, and you should get it off the road today. You can buy a car that can safely maintain the national speed limit (a working 1L car will do fine) for less than a weeks wages. For your own safety and everyone else's, please do so.

Victor

hi5 wrote: »

If your in this lane can you undertake the traffic in the 3 main lanes?
Does anybody have a link to exact rules that apply? Thanks.

DubTony wrote: »

Whether or not you can "undertake" on this lane is a whole other question. I have a feeling it'll be tested in court some day.

Traffic in the auxiliary lane is turning left, the rest of hte traffic should be going straight on.

hi5 wrote: »

This would then mean the traffic on the 3 main lanes have to give way to the possibly faster traffic on the dedicated lane should they decide to take the approaching exit.

Correct. But the traffic in the 3 main lanes would have several km to make the manoeuvre.

bongi69

Stekelly wrote: »

I travel between Tallaght and Clondalkin most days and just by staying in the left lane and at the speed limit I end up undertaking about 20 cars. Thats in a stretch of road probably kess than 2km long. Most of the time, due to the Tallaght junction being signal controlled you end up joinging the motorway in a line of cars. Everytime without fail, 90% of the line moves straight to the middle lane and never get to the speed limit. For me to stay properly legal I'd have to move with them, then overtake them and move back across the two lanes into the empty lane I had no intention of leaving in the first place. It's ****ing ridiculous.

+1.
My main use of the M50 is northbound between Ballymount and the N4 turnoff to go towards Liffey Valley. When entering the motorway, the left hand lane of the motorway (not the lane between ballymount and red cow) is generally empty with the traffic in the middle lane all in a line doing about 90kmh. When starting down the slip road I accelerate to 100kmh, and upon entering the motorway I'm already undertaking traffic. And since they're all in a line, to enter this line I have to wait for one of them to let me in, and thus slow down. So what I end up doing is just staying in the left hand lane, matching the speed of the middle lane, and getting into the slip lane for the N4 junction ASAP after Red Cow

DubTony

CharlieCroker wrote: »

While I understand your frustration with the N7 (I've experienced it plenty of times too), the penalty for undertaking (Dangerous Driving) is usually a lot higher than that of not driving in the left hand lane (Driving without reasonable consideration).

Actually it's not frustration at all. I don't break the speed limit and consistently come across lines of cars in the middle lane along all parts of N7. I'm with Stekelly on this one. These idiots are traveling in a line at 70-80K per hour and I'll need to make excessive lane changes to get past them.

I join the N7 at Citywest or Saggart / Rathcoole heading south in the mornings, and I'm amazed at how empty that lane will be all the way to the Naas / Sallins turnoff.

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I don't understand that very immature mentality. You criticise others for their lack of professionalism and then do something which is much worse.

Yeah, yeah. Immature mentality :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

If the so called professional drivers did as they're supposed to do and pulled into Lane 1 like good citizens it'd leave a lot more space for everybody else. Truckers and bus drivers are repeat offenders on the N7. It seems to me they get into the middle lane after the Red Cow interchange and stay in the f*cking thing until it actually becomes the inside lane at Naas, because they're too f*cking lazy or ignorant (or both) to drive where they're supposed to. Even the Northies are doing it now (and I know they've no excuse).

I was behind a British registered truck on Sunday afternoon. It was a pleasure to watch his professionalism. He indicated in good time, made his move, indicated again and pulled back in leaving plenty of room for the vehicle he'd just passed. It was amazing to see a real professional trucker at his work. But then, maybe he just gives a sh*te.

CharlieCroker

DubTony wrote: »

Actually it's not frustration at all. I don't break the speed limit and consistently come across lines of cars in the middle lane along all parts of N7. I'm with Stekelly on this one. These idiots are traveling in a line at 70-80K per hour and I'll need to make excessive lane changes to get past them.

I join the N7 at Citywest or Saggart / Rathcoole heading south in the mornings, and I'm amazed at how empty that lane will be all the way to the Naas / Sallins turnoff.

I agree that people need to be more responsible on the roads and i have pulled people over and cautioned them regarding their driving for staying in the outside lane for no need. But you also need to be responsible. By law, if you want to pass a car in lane 2 (middle), you're required if in lane 1, to move to lane 3 to pass and then move back over. But I know plenty of other Gardai who've prosecuted drivers for dangerous driving for undertaking. If that driver decides to pull into lane 1 from lane 2, he's not going to expect you to be there and prob won't look. If he makes contact with you, its you who will be deemed at fault.

Guy:Incognito

CharlieCroker wrote: »

If that driver decides to pull into lane 1 from lane 2, he's not going to expect you to be there and prob won't look. If he makes contact with you, its you who will be deemed at fault.

But how far is deemed to be undertaking? If I'm travelling at the speed limit and a guy pulls across me clipping the front of my car, I havent undertaken him yet.


Either way, surely due care and attention applies here? You have to be expected to check any lane before pullign into it, regardless of whether it's to your left or right. What happens if someone has just merged onto the main carriageway and are now in the driving lane? they cant be deemed responsible if someone decides to veer from the middle lane crashes into them.


Just on the subject of bad driving . I was comign from Clondalkin to Tallaght tonight at around 10. I came down the slip in the inside lane, guy in a red Astra (iirc) coming down behind me who, like the hoards fo people I see when it's busy, moves to the right hand slip lane (this isnt an issue when theres no traffic but for some stupid reason 90% of the people in heavy traffic some down the slip roads and all move to the right lane that abruptly ends with a gap of about 50m between the sets of hatchings, meanign 4 or 5 cars grouped together all trying to merge simulatneously before the lanes ends into heavy traffic, while I calmy stay int he left lane that continues for the length of the road to the next junction, giving any amount of time needed to build up speed and find a proper gap, when wil these idiots learn :rolleyes:). He ends up back behind me after I've built up speed and merged on to the carriageway.

He sits there till Ballymount where he then moves to the middle lane (theres no other cars around) getting closer to tallaght he inches closer to me on the outside around 5kmph quicker than me and eventually passes by me as I'm about 100m from the slip for Tallaght. By the time I get to the slip he's about 20m ahead at which point he suddenly decides to jam on on the main carriageway and make a dive through the cones to get to the slip, meaning I had to brake thinking he's comign through the cones into my lane.:rolleyes:

Seriously, what is wrong with people?

flamegrill

The rules of the road state that you may undertake on a dual carriage way / motor way on the inside lane if and only if your lane of traffic is moving faster than the outside lane.

So if I'm in lane 1 doing 100Km/h (since I get onto the N7) and I'm passing lots of idiots in lane 2, am I breaking the law? Technically no. But what would Charlie and his co-workers think of me? I duno.

DubTony

flamegrill wrote: »

The rules of the road state that you may undertake on a dual carriage way / motor way on the inside lane if and only if your lane of traffic is moving faster than the outside lane.

So if I'm in lane 1 doing 100Km/h (since I get onto the N7) and I'm passing lots of idiots in lane 2, am I breaking the law? Technically no. But what would Charlie and his co-workers think of me? I duno.

Actually the term used isn't slower traffic, it's "Slowly moving traffic". There's a difference.