1,000,000 Volts Vs 230 Volts

Voltex

Im no electrician...but how is it that idiots on Youtube can stun themselves with 1,000,000 volts and not suffer any injuries yet if I go and stick a fork in the plug socket Ill probably end up brown bread?

mikom

Voltex wrote: »

Im no electrician...but how is it that idiots on Youtube can stun themselves with 1,000,000 volts and not suffer any injuries yet if I go and stick a fork in the plug socket Ill probably end up brown bread?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

http://www.youtube.com/v/4VWk7y36EmE&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Shocking post to be fair....

TheZohanS

Mikoms ghost... wrote: »

Shocking post to be fair....

Watt?

minidazzler

Firstly, Stun guns do not carry 1,000,000 volts.

Secondly, it all has to do with how long your body is in contact with the source of electricity, you will go into cardaic arrest if you hold a fork in a wall socket, same as you would if you had a constant force of a stun gun coarsing through you.

Hank_Jones

I don't know about the 1 million volts, but 230 is more likely to kill you as you are part of a circuit.
The 230 would be passing through you for enough time to kill you. Small amounts of electricity can actually kill you, much less than 230v.

mikom

TheZohan wrote: »

Watt?

The truth Hertz

Voltex

Mikoms ghost... wrote: »

Shocking post to be fair....

I thought it was rather electryfying!

My name is URL

Volts don't kill, Amps do

MagicMarker

My name is URL wrote: »

Volts don't kill, Amps do

Only if you turn them up to 11.

Voltex

Mikoms ghost... wrote: »

The truth Hertz

The car rental people??

TheZohanS

Mikoms ghost... wrote: »

The truth Hertz

I don't let it phase me.

Genghiz Cohen

It's the ampage that counts. Sure you need a certain amount of voltage to pass through different objects, but Apmage is the amount of current that actually passes through you.

1,000,000 volt charge can jump through the air but transforming the voltage up that high causes you to lose ampage, meaning the jolt is less painful.

etc.

It's the volts that jolt, but the mills that kill.

Voltex

Deleted User wrote: »

It's the volts that jolt, but the mills that kill.

Ok...so does that actually mean anything?

Effects

minidazzler wrote: »

Firstly, Stun guns do not carry 1,000,000 volts.

Secondly, it all has to do with how long your body is in contact with the source of electricity, you will go into cardaic arrest if you hold a fork in a wall socket, same as you would if you had a constant force of a stun gun coarsing through you.

Not likely. The protective device will more than likely trip before it has the chance to kill you.

Overheal

Voltex wrote: »

Ok...so does that actually mean anything?

Cardiac arrest can happen in as low a current as 0.2mA if I remember my facts correctly. Voltage is the term for the carriage of that charge.

minidazzler

Effects wrote: »

Not likely. The protective device will more than likely trip before it has the chance to kill you.

Yeah, I know that, but still, don't tell kids that! haha.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Cardiac arrest can happen in as low a current as 0.2mA if I remember my facts correctly. Voltage is the term for the carriage of that charge.

X!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_shock

The average seems to be considered 100mA carried along 50V

Armin_Tamzarian

Short exposure to 230v AC is unlikely to kill you due to the large resistance of the human body.
A live cable can only cause harm to you if your body creates a link between the cable and Earth.
The human body will usually impede the flow electricity to a safe level though obviously prolonged exposure could be lethal.

Tasers use DC voltage which doesn't work the same as AC.
The taser probably emits a set voltage such as 1/1000 of an amp.

Effects

Effects wrote: »

Not likely. The protective device will more than likely trip before it has the chance to kill you.

Assuming that your house has modern wiring that actually has one fitted, also you are not trying it on in an IT area with a 100mA RCCD fitted.

Overheal

Tazers still have the potential to kill with prolonged exposure though.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

X!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_shock

The average seems to be considered 100mA carried along 50V

It's still possible to kill someone with a 9v battery, if the wires connected to it pierce the body in certain locations (don't try this at home!).

Armin_Tamzarian

Deleted User wrote: »

It's still possible to kill someone with a 9v battery

Especially if it's wrapped in a sock.

dougal-maguire

that clip was revolting

Voltex

seem to have a few technical show offs here.

pls put it in total layman terms!!

Mrmoe

Mikoms ghost... wrote: »

The truth Hertz

Those types of jokes will meet with a lot of resistence around here.

Overheal

Mrmoe wrote: »

Those types of jokes will meet with a lot of resistence around here.

Ohman I am so sick of these threads.

Columbia

Tasers can kill people, over the summer some American cop got into a whole heap of trouble because he tasered someone (about) 9 times and they ended up dying from it.

JohnCleary

As has been said before, it's the current that'll kill you

Higher the voltage, the less the current. A good example would be to look at the thickness of the cables that carry power accross the country, high voltage, low current (it's the current that'll melt the cable). When you lower the voltage, the current increases. That's why you nee nice big thick cables going to the starter in your car... low voltage, high current

Again as has been said, stun-guns carry nowhere near 1mil volts. The ones i've used before carry 50,000v

Overheal

Columbia wrote: »

Tasers can kill people, over the summer some American cop got into a whole heap of trouble because he tasered someone (about) 9 times and they ended up dying from it.

And before that Canadian Border control done it, etc. etc.

We had a good long talk about that one here - youtube video and all of the security guards kicking him on the ground.

JohnCleary

Columbia wrote: »

Tasers can kill people, over the summer some American cop got into a whole heap of trouble because he tasered someone (about) 9 times and they ended up dying from it.

Yeah i'd think that would be possible, eventhough it's low current as the voltage can still interfere with the electrical pulses of the body

johnnyskeleton

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

but Apmage is the amount of current that actually passes through you.
.

backwards tonight Are we?

Voltex wrote:

pls put it in total layman terms!!

Mmm, voltage is like speed, and current is like velocity. If you are hit by a pillow moving very fast it might not harm you but a car travelling at a lower speed will kill you. Not an exact analogy, but the point is that high voltage low current can be fairly harmless.

FarmerGreen

You can get one hell of a belt from 28v if you've got wet hands.

Buford T Justice

Using the ole V=I/R formula, it basically means that the higher the voltage the lower the amps. They do this with higher voltage on power lines and such to reduce energy loss.....

Ghost Train

Fingers McGee wrote: »

Using the ole V=I/R formula, it basically means that the higher the voltage the lower the amps. They do this with higher voltage on power lines and such to reduce energy loss.....

it's more about the power p=v x I

higher or lower voltage can give the same power shock if the current is right

high voltage high current = bad day

johnnyskeleton

Fingers McGee wrote: »

Using the ole V=I/R formula, it basically means that the higher the voltage the lower the amps. They do this with higher voltage on power lines and such to reduce energy loss.....

Is it not V = I*R, or I = V/R?

Voodu Child

Theres no point in talking about volts and amps separately, because they are related. Its all about power to be honest.

Current (I) is a flow of electrons, and you're not going to get that flow unless you have a voltage (potential difference) high enough to overcome the resistivity of human skin and tissue. If you're trying to get in one hand, go all way through all the thick tissues and organs, through the heart and out a leg or something, thats a pretty massive R.

And since I=V/R, lower voltages are inherently safer than higher ones.

lan

JohnCleary wrote: »

Higher the voltage, the less the current. A good example would be to look at the thickness of the cables that carry power accross the country, high voltage, low current (it's the current that'll melt the cable). When you lower the voltage, the current increases. That's why you nee nice big thick cables going to the starter in your car... low voltage, high current

This is totally backwards. As has been pointed out V = IR, so for a constant resistance, more voltage = more current. Power lines are thick to lower their resistance so less electricity is lost as heat during transmission. The have both high voltage and high current.

To everyone saying it's ampage that kills not voltage, remember, for a fixed resistance (your body) the ampage is proportional to the voltage, you only get high ampage with high voltage...

As for the original question, it's because the taser's voltage is only applied for a very small amount of time.

xsiborg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a4gyJsY0mc

couldn't resist-ance!

bnt

Another way of putting it: a device powered by a 9V battery can only deliver power at a limited rate. As I understand it: a taser has a "diode ladder" that ramps up the voltage at the expense of current (P = V.I), and while it might be 50,000 volts when attached to thin air, its voltage seriously "sags" when it's put through a real load like e.g. a person. It can only keep up 5000V or so by doing it in short pulses, which also limits the power delivered to the load.

I've seen a video of a kid playing on top of a train and grabbing a 6000V power line. Nothing like a taser: one loud bang, instant death. That kind of line could power an electric train with little voltage sag, so a human body (a higher resistance) hardly registers.

So, to answer the original question: the voltage kills and the current kills: together, in the form of power. A domestic 230V supply can't put as much peak current through you as a taser at (say) 5000V, but it's a near-constant current, not pulses, and the voltage doesn't sag (much) when it hits you. For any given voltage, DC is even worse than AC: I've been shocked by 380V AC on one occasion, but a 200V DC hit gave me a headache so bad I had to lie down in a dark room for a while. (Some kinds of industrial instrumentation need weird power sources.)

martyboy48

Just to throw this out there regarding how 'it's the Amps' that kill you. Remember the effect of static electricity, you know, the shock from a car door ect.. This is because our bodies create a static charge of electricity through movement/what we are wearing/ humidity conditions.. We carry about 2,000volts but this can increase to about 10,000 Volts( not exact figures but you can Wiki it). I think it's around 6,000 Volts that the spark will be created and give you the shock.. So that shows you how high VOLTAGE may not kill you..
For all the tech heads, I watched a programme few months ago where some guy from S america i think could withstand Very high Voltage/current.. They had experts from around the world examine how he does it and how he survives and all they reckon is he trained his body to take the pain!! Some Whacky tv repair guy
Oh and after such a long post, 1 more thing. The main reason a taser will kill you is if you have underlying health problems example having pacemaker fitted.. PHEW

CrazyRabbit

150,000v Van De Graff generator...quite harmless:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsk934mVkyk

Wazdakka

*bangs head off table*

You all use electricity every day for so many different things...
How do so few of you know how it works?

Donnelly117

its current which kills you, not voltage

Wazdakka

Wazdakka wrote: »

*bangs head off table*

You all use electricity every day for so many different things...
How do so few of you know how it works?

True, but few of us ever intend to be part of the circuit!

Stercus Accidit

Its amazing how hard to grasp that Watts = Volts x Amps, even when people start quoting the formula, at each other, just swapped around, they don't get it.

Voltage is irrelevant once there is enough to create a circuit through your body, it is the amps that will stop your heart.

davyjose

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

backwards tonight Are we?



Mmm, voltage is like speed, and current is like velocity. If you are hit by a pillow moving very fast it might not harm you but a car travelling at a lower speed will kill you. Not an exact analogy, but the point is that high voltage low current can be fairly harmless.

It's nice you can point out others' mistakes. Speed and Velocity are effectively the same thing. I believe you meant to say momentum.

Mike 1972

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Voltage is irrelevant once there is enough to create a circuit through your body, it is the amps that will stop your heart.

Ture but isint it akin to saying "its not the speed which kills its the force of impact"

opinion guy

Mrmoe wrote: »

Those types of jokes will meet with a lot of resistence around here.

Resistance is futile! Stick that in your equations !! "P

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

backwards tonight Are we?



Mmm, voltage is like speed, and current is like velocity. If you are hit by a pillow moving very fast it might not harm you but a car travelling at a lower speed will kill you. Not an exact analogy, but the point is that high voltage low current can be fairly harmless.

This analogy makes no sense.

lan wrote: »

This is totally backwards. As has been pointed out V = IR, so for a constant resistance, more voltage = more current. Power lines are thick to lower their resistance so less electricity is lost as heat during transmission. The have both high voltage and high current.

To everyone saying it's ampage that kills not voltage, remember, for a fixed resistance (your body) the ampage is proportional to the voltage, you only get high ampage with high voltage...

As for the original question, it's because the taser's voltage is only applied for a very small amount of time.

Except - you are thinking only in terms of DC. For AC, which is what most people mean when they say amps kill not voltage and the case to consider in mains wiring electrocutions, things are not so simple. The resistance varies as a function of frequency. The voltage if pretty much set so since V = IR the ampage varies as a function of frequency also. Therefore amps kill, voltage does not. In other words - you are wrong

pljudge321

opinion guy wrote: »

Resistance is futile! Stick that in your equations !! "P


This analogy makes no sense.



Except - you are thinking only in terms of DC. For AC, which is what most people mean when they say amps kill not voltage and the case to consider in mains wiring electrocutions, things are not so simple. The resistance varies as a function of frequency. The voltage if pretty much set so since V = IR the ampage varies as a function of frequency also. Therefore amps kill, voltage does not. In other words - you are wrong

Resistance is fixed, the voltage varies along a roughly sinusoidal value with an r.m.s of 220v with a frequency of 50hz. The peak voltage it hits is about +/- 310 volts but because its ac you take its r.m.s value.

Amps do kill, its just that the voltage is the driving force behind the current flow. Two sides of the same coin.

Calibos

Ohm my God, enough with the techie talk. Lets get back to the puns please!!