Irish Judicial System. Rape of a child a lesser crime than that of an adult.

AtariBaby

I come to Boards.ie in the hope that someone can offer justification in this matter. I'm sure we all agree that rape is a heinous crime in any circumstances, imposed on any individual be them of any age, gender, race etc etc.
Can someone please answer me why there is such inconsistencies in final legal/justification rulings in these matters. It is apparent that the Irish society views the rape of a child to a lesser degree than that of an adult.
I present 3 cases of rape. 1 of the cases presented reflects the rape/abuse of an adult whilst the others reflects the rape/abuse of children.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0129/piotrowskie.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0126/currye.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0128/doyleg.html

Why is there such a massive difference in these sentences?

In the case of Piotrowskie I present a quote from the RTE newsroom

"Edward Piotrowski, who is from Poland, but has an address at Clonmullen Hall, Edenderry, Co Offaly, told his victim during the two-and-a-half-hour ordeal that he would kill her and her partner."

Please remember that the sexual abuse of a child is highly traumatic for the younger mind, noone can say for sure what was said to the child during the repeated terms of abuse. The child may not be able to recall what was said.
It seems to me that the Irish Judicial system readily accepts that the rape and abuse of children is a lesser crime than the rape and abuse of an adult. Why are there such inconsistencies in cases of rape? Surely rape is rape. Why are child sex offenders getting lesser sentences?
Or is there an ulterior motive hiding beneath all this?
We all know that the catholic church holds massive precedence in the Irish state. Are these lenient sentences imposed for the rape of children presently making way for lesser sentences for religious figureheads in the future?

Irish Judicial System: Rape of a child a lesser crime than the rape an adult.

Your views please. Thank you.

PirateShampoo

Justification and AH, this should end well.

PirateShampoo

Plus the first case is a very different case from the second 2.

caseyann

Majority of people agree with you for some unknown reason not in judicial system in any country of world do they agree with us:mad:
Its not just Ireland Netherlands etc... they get fines and 3 month sentences.:(

There is needed a complete overhaul of Judicial systems.

Dudess

caseyann wrote: »

Its not just Ireland Netherlands etc... they get fines and 3 month sentences.:(

Where? Who? When? For what?

minidazzler

Because too many of our laws were influenced by the catholic church, and we all know their track record on sex abuse and victims of same. (Magdalene Laundries for pregnant girls raped by whoever)

But it's also because we are a country full of begrudgers.

Overheal

Well you see: Ger Doyle was an Olympic Coach for Ireland. Ireland doesnt like to jail its athletes for some reason. Look at the Eddie Halvey sentence ffs.


And to the lawyers who defend these shells of humanity with special terms like Aberration: There is a special place in Hell for you.

caseyann

Dudess wrote: »

Where? Who? When? For what?

For Pedophiles.:(

AtariBaby

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Plus the first case is a very different case from the second 2.

Could you elaborate, please?

brummytom

The Justice system, as a whole, in most countries, is inconsistent. It's a shame, but that's the way it is.

Also, all three cases are very different. The latter two had no previous. The first man raped one woman, held another man captive and threatened to kill the two.

minidazzler

caseyann wrote: »

For Pedophiles.:(

I think what she meant was linky to proof? That sounds like a grossly disproportionate punihment.

Overheal

brummytom wrote: »

The first man raped one woman, held another man captive and threatened to kill the two.

So thats

6 months suspended sentence for raping a woman
1 life sentence for threatening to kill her
1 life sentence for threatening to kill him
1 life sentence for kidnapping him
1 life sentence for handcuffing his left arm
1 life sentence for handcuffing his right arm

am i right?

AtariBaby

caseyann wrote: »

Majority of people agree with you for some unknown reason not in judicial system in any country of world do they agree with us:mad:
Its not just Ireland Netherlands etc... they get fines and 3 month sentences.:(

There is needed a complete overhaul of Judaical systems.

Thank you. I totally agree. Did you know that the amount of child sex offenders in this country has increased by 68% over the last 5 years. For some strange reason, all countries are directing their child sex offenders toward Ireland.

brummytom

Overheal wrote: »

So thats

6 months suspended sentence for raping a woman
1 life sentence for threatening to kill her
1 life sentence for threatening to kill him
1 life sentence for kidnapping him
1 life sentence for handcuffing his left arm
1 life sentence for handcuffing his right arm

am i right?

I'm not condoning it; I'm just saying the 3 aren't the most comparable

Overheal

brummytom wrote: »

I'm not condoning it; I'm just saying the 3 aren't the most comparable

I only agree that they are difficult to compare as they are somewhat apples and oranges: theyre both fruit [rape] but hard to compare to eachother.

brummytom

Overheal wrote: »

I only agree that they are difficult to compare as they are somewhat apples and oranges: theyre both fruit [rape] but hard to compare to eachother.

Yeah.. I know. I agree

Dudess

caseyann wrote: »

For Pedophiles.:(

Could you be more specific?

PirateShampoo

AtariBaby wrote: »

Could you elaborate, please?

Brummytom already beat me to it.

I wasn't defending any of the cases, just saying they are different offenses and situations and not really comparable.

caseyann

minidazzler wrote: »

I think what she meant was linky to proof? That sounds like a grossly disproportionate punihment.

Oh sorry i cant.It would only give dutch news.And i don't read it.I am told this by some people i know who live there.

AtariBaby

minidazzler wrote: »

Because too many of our laws were influenced by the catholic church, and we all know their track record on sex abuse and victims of same. (Magdalene Laundries for pregnant girls raped by whoever)

But it's also because we are a country full of begrudgers.

I understand your point but I feel the need to point out the fact that not all priests are child molestors [paedophiles]. Child molestors [paedophiles] are made up of all walks of life, postmen, judges, gardai, accountants, solicitors, teachers, etc etc but not all postmen, judges, gardai, accountants, solicitors, teachers etc etc are child molestors [paedophiles].

AtariBaby

Overheal wrote: »

Well you see: Ger Doyle was an Olympic Coach for Ireland. Ireland doesnt like to jail its athletes for some reason. Look at the Eddie Halvey sentence ffs.


And to the lawyers who defend these shells of humanity with special terms like Aberration: There is a special place in Hell for you.[/QUOTE]

Quoted for truth!!

minidazzler

AtariBaby wrote: »

I understand your point but I feel the need to point out the fact that not all priests are child molestors [paedophiles]. Child molestors [paedophiles] are made up of all walks of life, postmen, judges, gardai, accountants, solicitors, teachers, etc etc but not all postmen, judges, gardai, accountants, solicitors, teachers etc etc are child molestors [paedophiles].

I understand that, but it was the heirarchy of the Catholic church who were complicit along with many other people in hiding said abuse, and in fact alot more abuse that was carried out by men on women.

It basically became OK for men to do as they please in this country because the church made it so.

Our laws haven't quite caught up with our morality.

caseyann

AtariBaby wrote: »

Thank you. I totally agree. Did you know that the amount of child sex offenders in this country has increased by 68% over the last 5 years. For some strange reason, all countries are directing their child sex offenders toward Ireland.

I didnt know percentage but i did know we had become safe haven for them.Because Irish immigration policies we have are nil to void:( Australia from what i have seen are amazing for making a point to check all criminal backgrounds.I think there is where it should start!

minidazzler

AtariBaby wrote: »

Thank you. I totally agree. Did you know that the amount of child sex offenders PROSECUTED in this country has increased by 68% over the last 5 years. For some strange reason, all countries are directing their child sex offenders toward Ireland.

FYP, we have always had child sex offenders, and lots of them, but "no one knew", it was kept under wraps.

So, it's prosecutions which have increased, not sex offences.

AtariBaby

brummytom wrote: »

The Justice system, as a whole, in most countries, is inconsistent. It's a shame, but that's the way it is.

Also, all three cases are very different. The latter two had no previous. The first man raped one woman, held another man captive and threatened to kill the two.

I fail to see any difference in the 3 cases.
You say the latter 2 had no previous. What has that got to do with it. It just means that they were much better at keeping their crimes hidden, which in turn would make them a much bigger threat in society. Also,
you say the first man raped one woman, held another captive and threatened to kill both.

The other criminals raped several and who is to say that they didn't hold other children captive or threaten to kill them. Paedophiles will always threathen the child that they will harm them or other family members if the victimized child tells anyone.

AtariBaby

brummytom wrote: »

I'm not condoning it; I'm just saying the 3 aren't the most comparable

Of course they are comparable.
A woman is raped. A child is raped.
A man is held captive. A child is held captive.
The criminal threatens murder toward both adults. It's most common in child abuse that the child [or a member of the child's family] is threatned with harm or death in order to silence the victimized child.

Where are these differences that you speak of? I fail to see them.

AtariBaby

Overheal wrote: »

I only agree that they are difficult to compare as they are somewhat apples and oranges: theyre both fruit [rape] but hard to compare to eachother.

I'm still waiting for someone to show me the differences but yet all I see is people saying they are different but it is not accompanied by any rational explanation or insight.

I hate to repeat myself but........

Of course they are comparable.
A woman is raped. A child is raped.
A man is held captive. A child is held captive.
The criminal threatens murder toward both adults. It's most common in child abuse that the child [or a member of the child's family] is threatned with harm or death in order to silence the victimized child.

Where are these differences that you speak of? I fail to see them.

AtariBaby

minidazzler wrote: »

I understand that, but it was the heirarchy of the Catholic church who were complicit along with many other people in hiding said abuse, and in fact alot more abuse that was carried out by men on women.

It basically became OK for men to do as they please in this country because the church made it so.

Our laws haven't quite caught up with our morality.

I totally agree. The Vatican in Rome was well aware of child abuse as far back as the 1970's and covered it all up. But what I'm saying is that not all priests are child molestors. Yes, there are many, the Vatican knew about it and covered it up, but there are still a lot of priests who didn't know what was going on. A commander does not tell his grunts everything.
To be honest, if it wasn't for the brave victims coming out about those dreadful, unforgiveable era's, the Vatican would still be covering it up.

Thanks to all you brave people for coming out and exposing Ireland for what it truly is. A state controlled by self obsessed ritualists wearing weird frocks and to Ireland, a country which gives sanctuary to child sex offenders all across the world.

Its strange in Ireland that the public do not have access to it's nations child sex offender registry. The only people who can view the registry are the Gardai. Whilst there are many sex offenders living in our neighbourhoods [unknown to us], the Gardai view it best to not let us know who or where they are. Maybe in the next case of child abuse, the Gardai should be put on trial, convicted and placed in jail for criminal negligence and failure to serve and protect the community, for which is part of their contract.

AtariBaby

caseyann wrote: »

I didnt know percentage but i did know we had become safe haven for them.Because Irish immigration policies we have are nil to void:( Australia from what i have seen are amazing for making a point to check all criminal backgrounds.I think there is where it should start!

I sadly have to agree. Our Immigration policies are non existent. But maybe that is the way Ireland wants them to be.:(

Overheal

AtariBaby wrote: »

I'm still waiting for someone to show me the differences but yet all I see is people saying they are different but it is not accompanied by any rational explanation or insight.

I hate to repeat myself but........

Of course they are comparable.
A woman is raped. A child is raped.
A man is held captive. A child is held captive.
The criminal threatens murder toward both adults. It's most common in child abuse that the child [or a member of the child's family] is threatned with harm or death in order to silence the victimized child.

Where are these differences that you speak of? I fail to see them.

Youre talking about one being a violent kidnapping involving premeditation to the point of having keys copied and in others you have repeated coercion of children into boiler rooms and tool sheds to have your way with them.

I never said which one I thought was worse. But its not hard to guess. Im just saying one is not the other; though not far off.

minidazzler

AtariBaby wrote: »

I totally agree. The Vatican in Rome was well aware of child abuse as far back as the 1970's and covered it all up. But what I'm saying is that not all priests are child molestors. Yes, there are many, the Vatican knew about it and covered it up, but there are still a lot of priests who didn't know what was going on. A commander does not tell his grunts everything.
To be honest, if it wasn't for the brave victims coming out about those dreadful, unforgiveable era's, the Vatican would still be covering it up.

Thanks to all you brave people for coming out and exposing Ireland for what it truly is. A state controlled by self obsessed ritualists wearing weird frocks and to Ireland, a country which gives sanctuary to child sex offenders all across the world.

Its strange in Ireland that the public do not have access to it's nations child sex offender registry. The only people who can view the registry are the Gardai. Whilst there are many sex offenders living in our neighbourhoods [unknown to us], the Gardai view it best to not let us know who or where they are. Maybe in the next case of child abuse, the Gardai should be put on trial, convicted and placed in jail for criminal negligence and failure to serve and protect the community, for which is part of their contract.

A commander might not tell his troops everything, but he is ultimately responsible. I would argue the vast majority of the clergy knew what was going on, but was too pussy to stop it.

The sex offender registry, I see alot of good reasons to be public, but at the same time, if someone has served their time, then they should be allowed at least try to get on with their lives with some degree of normality. Though time served is simply not enough IMO.

AtariBaby

minidazzler wrote: »

FYP, we have always had child sex offenders, and lots of them, but "no one knew", it was kept under wraps.

So, it's prosecutions which have increased, not sex offences.

Firstly, child sex offences were never kept under wraps, victims were coming out but the judicial system kept turning them away.

Secondly, no, you are misinformed. Sex offences are increasing:
http://www.ireland.com/home/Kidnappings_rapes_robberies_rise/maxi/fast/news/irnews/247285


Please do not feel that my sole purpose here is to prove you wrong. I'm glad you took time out to debate in my thread. In any debate, opinions are always welcomed but in a sensitive issue like this, its always best to speak in truths and facts.
Ireland has a horrendous laid back approach to dealing with criminals who abuse/rape children. Alot of people will be upset that I'm running down our country but just remember a country is a word spelt with letters, a flag is just material with colours. Its people that make a country. Aren't children people too????

AtariBaby

Overheal wrote: »

Youre talking about one being a violent kidnapping involving premeditation to the point of having keys copied and in others you have repeated coercion of children into boiler rooms and tool sheds to have your way with them.

I never said which one I thought was worse. But its not hard to guess. Im just saying one is not the other; though not far off.

I understand you are not speaking about one being worse than the other. I know you think both are heinous.

The only differences is the words and terms used. The actions are the same. The end result is the same. Our Judicial system [much like many] places far too much emphasis on the actions surrounding and leading up to the crime than the actual crime itself. In my eyes that is a miscarriage of justice.

minidazzler

AtariBaby wrote: »

Firstly, child sex offences were never kept under wraps, victims were coming out but the judicial system kept turning them away.

Secondly, no, you are misinformed. Sex offences are increasing:
http://www.ireland.com/home/Kidnappings_rapes_robberies_rise/maxi/fast/news/irnews/247285


Please do not feel that my sole purpose here is to prove you wrong. I'm glad you took time out to debate in my thread. In any debate, opinions are always welcomed but in a sensitive issue like this, its always best to speak in truths and facts.:D
Ireland has a horrendous laid back approach to dealing with criminals who abuse/rape children. Alot of people will be upset that I'm running down our country but just remember a country is a word spelt with letters, a flag is just material with colours. Its people that make a country. Aren't children people too????

OK, on the highlighted bit, WTF??? They were NEVER kept under wraps? What planet are you living on?

Secondly, As I said Prosecutions are rising, but more accurately Reporting rape is rising, that doesn't mean it didn't exist before, it just was WAY under reported, and still is.

You haven't exactly proved anyone wrong here, I have agreed that our judicial system is a shambles.

And on the last bit, you aren't a person until you are in my phonebook. :P

Red_Marauder

AtariBaby wrote: »

Aren't children people too????

Well that's it actually - all are people. Whether you're a child or an adult, you don't deserve rape.

If a girl is attacked by some random guy in the street and raped it is just as wrong as someone taking a child and raping that child. Age doesn not come into it, rape is rape, for everyone.

It's not any worse or any better when it's an adult.

Piste

Maybe I didn't read the last two articles properly, but I didn't see anywhere that either men were convicted of rape, it was indecent assault, which is different and a lesser crime (IMHO) so should carry a lesser sentence.

AtariBaby

minidazzler wrote: »

A commander might not tell his troops everything, but he is ultimately responsible. I would argue the vast majority of the clergy knew what was going on, but was too pussy to stop it.
The sex offender registry, I see alot of good reasons to be public, but at the same time, if someone has served their time, then they should be allowed at least try to get on with their lives with some degree of normality. Though time served is simply not enough IMO.

I certainly cannot dispute your claim of all priests knowing about it. I cannot prove otherwise but I would like to think for the sake of the Irish society that not all knew about it.
I understand your concerns regarding a public viewable sex offenders registry. It may cause so called witch hunts and lynch mobs to come into effect, but in the end, decieving the public does not protect the public.
A lot of countries have public accessible sex offenders registrars, in light of current times and events I feel its high time Ireland followed suit and, for once, stood up for the protection of Irish children.

RTE, PAT KENNY ATTEMPT TO RATIONALIZE PAEDOPHILIA 2006.

In 2006, our national tv broadcaster allowed a child sex offender to appear on its prime time show "The Late Late Show". It was not well recieved. In 2006 the Catholic Church knew the allegations were about to surface. The RTE [financed by the Catholic Church] and Pat "puppet" Kenny decided to delve into child sex offenders. They invited convicted child molestor [paedophile] Jake Goldenflame, for an interview.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fury-and-outrage-over-late-late-paedophile-interview-77640.html

This passage from the above article says it all:

"Whilst One in Four believes an appropriate and balanced discussion which seeks to explore the perpetration of sexual violence against children has considerable merit, we do not believe the Late Late Show is an appropriate forum for such a discussion." He described the decision by RTE not to ensure a qualified therapist was on hand to counter Mr Goldenflame's distorted views as "grossly irresponsible".

It wasn't grossly irresponsible to not allow a qualifed speaker to counter the argument, that was the intended purpose of the RTE. The RTE just wanted 1 view heard. RTE views that the Irish people are stupid and thought that they would believe this crap and nonsense cos they said so and afterall it was on tv. That view expressed was bought and paid by the Catholic Church in an attempt to rationalize child abuse.

Sickenly, the interview was immediately followed up by a comedian and a male stripping act.

When our own National TV Broadcaster neglects child protection by airing such nonsense which consisted of pure lies and misinformation, you can be sure all is not well within the country. Shame on you RTE, Catholic Church and Pat "puppet" Kenny.

The recent budget demonstrates how much the Irish Nation cares about its children. The budget hit the most vulnerable in society, families/persons on welfare and families/persons in minimum wage jobs.
As recently seen on Pat "puppet" Kennys tv show "The Frontline", there is now an argument rising between people working for the minimum wage and people on social welfare. Pat Kenny and RTE has got people riled up about social welfare recipients not returning to work due to no pay incentive. This has angered people, understandly, who are on the minimum wage. Please do not fall for this nonsense. The only thing that the RTE and Pat Kenny are attempting is to get the lowest classes of society falling out, squabbling over pennies whilst the rich get richer.

A LETTER TO THE TAOISEACH, MR. BRIAN COWEN

Dear Taoiseach [Mr. Brian Cowen]
What is the governments plan to protect children in the future? Why are overseas sex offenders flooding in to this country?
Is it true that the Irish state is planning on leaving the poorer sections of society [social welfare recipients and minimum wage workers] so poor that one day they may actually have to prostitute out their children to all these pimps, paedophiles and sex offenders that is swamping our country in an effort to survive hard economical times brought on by greedy politicians and worthless bankers..

From:
A very concerned citizen.

Back on topic, I guess time will tell on that one but make no mistake about this. This is 100% fact.
Ireland is neglecting children.
You may like to wrap yourself up in wool and say, no that is not happening. If you feel that way then I think its about time you opened your eyes and had a very good intense look at this country.
Ireland is neglecting children.

AtariBaby

minidazzler wrote: »

OK, on the highlighted bit, WTF??? They were NEVER kept under wraps? What planet are you living on?

Secondly, As I said Prosecutions are rising, but more accurately Reporting rape is rising, that doesn't mean it didn't exist before, it just was WAY under reported, and still is.

You haven't exactly proved anyone wrong here, I have agreed that our judicial system is a shambles.

And on the last bit, you aren't a person until you are in my phonebook. :P

I guess there is a mixing of words between us. You are correct, all was kept under wraps by society but I was speaking from the victims [survivors] point of view, they never hid it, society did.

The most highest form of unreported rape is that of a married man raping his wife. I agree that most rape goes unreported due to many reasons. Probably one being lack of faith in the judicidal system.

The debate is not about proving anyone right or wrong but I'm still waiting on you to list these differences between the 3 cases in my OP. If you can, list constructive differences, just don't say, I say there are differences between the 3 cos I say so. List and detail what you feel is different and why you feel that each got different sentencing. I cannot see any difference between the rape of an adult than the rape of a child, both are equally heinous.

I don't think I will enter your phonebook, meeting people online can sometimes be a sure fire way of getting hurt. Not that all people online are bad. Its a mixed bag.:)

AtariBaby

Red_Marauder wrote: »

Well that's it actually - all are people. Whether you're a child or an adult, you don't deserve rape.

If a girl is attacked by some random guy in the street and raped it is just as wrong as someone taking a child and raping that child. Age doesn not come into it, rape is rape, for everyone.

It's not any worse or any better when it's an adult.

Well said. I agree completely.

AtariBaby

Piste wrote: »

Maybe I didn't read the last two articles properly, but I didn't see anywhere that either men were convicted of rape, it was indecent assault, which is different and a lesser crime (IMHO) so should carry a lesser sentence.

Its people like you that has this country the way it is!! A mess!

minidazzler

AtariBaby wrote: »

I guess there is a mixing of words between us. You are correct, all was kept under wraps by society but I was speaking from the victims [survivors] point of view, they never hid it, society did.

The most highest form of unreported rape is that of a married man raping his wife. I agree that most rape goes unreported due to many reasons. Probably one being lack of faith in the judicidal system.

The debate is not about proving anyone right or wrong but I'm still waiting on you to list these differences between the 3 cases in my OP. If you can, list constructive differences, just don't say, I say there are differences between the 3 cos I say so. List and detail what you feel is different and why you feel that each got different sentencing. I cannot see any difference between the rape of an adult than the rape of a child, both are equally heinous.

I don't think I will enter your phonebook, meeting people online can sometimes be a sure fire way of getting hurt. Not that all people online are bad. Its a mixed bag.:)

Why do you keep using definite terms?

I never said there were or were not differences in the three cases above, however from my understanding is that one was a prolonged rape and the other 2 were sexual assault over a long period of time. Sexual assault is not always rape, but rape is always sexual assault, so there is a difference in what was done, that doesn't mean any of it was less or more depraved than the other.

I think rapists and people who commit sexual assault alike should be given quite harsh sentences, but they are technically different crimes!

SubrbanOblivion

AtariBaby wrote: »

I fail to see any difference in the 3 cases.
You say the latter 2 had no previous. What has that got to do with it. It just means that they were much better at keeping their crimes hidden, which in turn would make them a much bigger threat in society.

If they weren't caught, it can't be proven that they've done it before, or are 'more of a danger'. While I agree most offenders probably don't get caught out their first time, we know there are some that have.

As to why it makes a difference...Some people get caught, go through the system and get help, whether they are successful or not. Some may be so afraid of getting caught that they don't repeat their actions.

The most dangerous type is the one who takes their punishment, but still feels compelled to repeat their offense despite the consequences. The first-timer doesn't know what will happen if they get busted, the repeat offender knows and just doesn't care. Far more disturbing IMO.

m@cc@

caseyann wrote: »

Oh sorry i cant.It would only give dutch news.And i don't read it.I am told this by some people i know who live there.

Well I lived there, and I think I'd like more details before I'd make sweeping generalisations.

Lockstep

Ah the AH justice brigade.

1st case was a rape (and involved violence, death threats etc). The second two were sexual assaults. And yet, during the OP's posts, he keeps referring to all 3 as rapists. Lovely.

Guess what people; justice systems don't work perfectly all the time. And yet random cases where people see a breach of justice get held up on AH (always with a couple of incomparable cases) as "evidence", without bothering to consider that the justice system as a whole works well.

Lockstep

AtariBaby wrote: »

I'm still waiting for someone to show me the differences but yet all I see is people saying they are different but it is not accompanied by any rational explanation or insight.

I hate to repeat myself but........

Of course they are comparable.
A woman is raped. A child is raped.
A man is held captive. A child is held captive.
The criminal threatens murder toward both adults. It's most common in child abuse that the child [or a member of the child's family] is threatned with harm or death in order to silence the victimized child.

Where are these differences that you speak of? I fail to see them.

Did you actually read the cases?
Sexual assault =/= rape.

Lockstep

AtariBaby wrote: »

Its people like you that has this country the way it is!! A mess!

Ignoring her points and going for ad hominems (after complaining that nobody showed up the differences)
Nice!

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

AtariBaby wrote: »

I come to Boards.ie in the hope that someone can offer justification in this matter. I'm sure we all agree that rape is a heinous crime in any circumstances, imposed on any individual be them of any age, gender, race etc etc.
Can someone please answer me why there is such inconsistencies in final legal/justification rulings in these matters. It is apparent that the Irish society views the rape of a child to a lesser degree than that of an adult.
I present 3 cases of rape. 1 of the cases presented reflects the rape/abuse of an adult whilst the others reflects the rape/abuse of children.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0129/piotrowskie.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0126/currye.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0128/doyleg.html

Why is there such a massive difference in these sentences?

In the case of Piotrowskie I present a quote from the RTE newsroom


Please remember that the sexual abuse of a child is highly traumatic for the younger mind, noone can say for sure what was said to the child during the repeated terms of abuse. The child may not be able to recall what was said.
It seems to me that the Irish Judicial system readily accepts that the rape and abuse of children is a lesser crime than the rape and abuse of an adult. Why are there such inconsistencies in cases of rape? Surely rape is rape. Why are child sex offenders getting lesser sentences?
Or is there an ulterior motive hiding beneath all this?
We all know that the catholic church holds massive precedence in the Irish state. Are these lenient sentences imposed for the rape of children presently making way for lesser sentences for religious figureheads in the future?

Irish Judicial System: Rape of a child a lesser crime than the rape an adult.

Your views please. Thank you.

Fail thread... all three crimes are completely differant, plus the pole in the first link probably ate the couples swans too...

DamoDLK

Overheal wrote: »

...And to the lawyers who defend these shells of humanity with special terms like Aberration: There is a special place in Hell for you.

I don't believe and I simply cannot believe what your saying... Society needs lawyers brave enough to take on unpopular cases.

This could go way off topic, but just for a second, remember Paddy J. McGrory a brilliant Lawyer who took on the Gibraltar inquest into the death of 3 provo volunteers on behalf of the families. This nearly destroyed his good name as the UK tabloids went to town accusing him of all sorts of activities..

It wasn't a popular move on his behalf, but non-the less, Lawyers this brave are somewhat thick skinned.

omahaid

I LOL when I read this sort of stuff. Why dont we have a judiciary accountable to the people? Because we dont want to.

Every general election, or local election, politicians come to my door asking for my vote. I ask them each time, what will they do to make our judiciary more transparent, accountable and just. Each time the politicians say "blah blah blah constitution blah blah". As if the constitution was written in stone and cant be changed :rolleyes:

We should have judges who justify their decisions. Its madness that we have a section of society literally above the law (we can't even subject them to a pension levy) and at no stage do they have to explain any one of their decisions. It is literally madness.

And lets be honest, they have no problem criticizing how we find out information

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/judges-charge-against-rte-must-be-taken-seriously-1166606.html

But try and remove them for misconduct and they go to their buddies and sue you

http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0601/curtinb.html

Seriously, judges judging judges in a court where they have to provide no explanation.

Still, this is what the Irish people want, they need an upper class to rule them, the brits, the church and now the judges.

Son Of A Vidic

Overheal wrote: »

So thats

6 months suspended sentence for raping a woman
1 life sentence for threatening to kill her
1 life sentence for threatening to kill him
1 life sentence for kidnapping him
1 life sentence for handcuffing his left arm
1 life sentence for handcuffing his right arm

am i right?

Totally, but throw in castration and eye gouging and that would cap it of nicely.

limklad

There is lots of inconsistency in Irish Law over equality of the gender. Which is in breach of article 14 Discrimination of the European conventions of human rights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Human_Rights#Article_14_-_discrimination

There is more punishment of Males in Irish Law than Females. Law must be applied fairly for everyone to be effective.

For Example. If a 16 year old girl seduces and have sex with her 10 year old brother. He can be Punish for incest while she gets away Scott free with that offence.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/justice/criminal-law/criminal-offences/law_on_sex_offences_in_ireland
There are no age limits. However, a girl under 17 years cannot be prosecuted for incest. The maximum sentence is life imprisonment for males and seven years for females.

Defilement of a child aged under 17 years

A girl aged under 17 years who has sexual intercourse may not be convicted of an offence on that ground alone.

And Girls say they are more mature than boys. Yet the Boy have to take responsibility for his actions. A clear discrimination against young immature males.

Mother who abuse their children even sexual offence get off lightly in comparison to Fathers. It seems that the legal system and TD's do not agree that mothers who abuse their children do not cause as much emotional and mental damage to their children than the Fathers.

Any mother/females who knowingly commits an offence knows that she will get off lightly with the Irish Justice system or not go to court. There is no incentive for females to obey the law or show proper conduct that males are expected to follow. The "Child or Pregnant" is the "get out of jail card" is always been played and that "all males abuses" is their ticket to get off lightly as excuses and blaming others without taking responsibility for their actions, which is shameful.

Females are getting far more aggressive today than in Victorian times with the old out of date mindset belief that our Law makers still have.
Who voted them in? We Society did , therefore we are to blame for the mess we created.

Women are not weak, they have other non physical and more destructive ways to abuse.

Childline in the UK have reported an alarming increase in Female sexual predators of child rape.
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/taboo-tolerance/female-sexual-abuse-the-untold-story-of-societys-last-taboo-1767688.html