Irish Judicial System. Rape of a child a lesser crime than that of an adult.

AtariBaby

I come to Boards.ie in the hope that someone can offer justification in this matter. I'm sure we all agree that rape is a heinous crime in any circumstances, imposed on any individual be them of any age, gender, race etc etc.
Can someone please answer me why there is such inconsistencies in final legal/justification rulings in these matters. It is apparent that the Irish society views the rape of a child to a lesser degree than that of an adult.
I present 3 cases of rape. 1 of the cases presented reflects the rape/abuse of an adult whilst the others reflects the rape/abuse of children.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0129/piotrowskie.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0126/currye.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0128/doyleg.html

Why is there such a massive difference in these sentences?

In the case of Piotrowskie I present a quote from the RTE newsroom

"Edward Piotrowski, who is from Poland, but has an address at Clonmullen Hall, Edenderry, Co Offaly, told his victim during the two-and-a-half-hour ordeal that he would kill her and her partner."

Please remember that the sexual abuse of a child is highly traumatic for the younger mind, noone can say for sure what was said to the child during the repeated terms of abuse. The child may not be able to recall what was said.
It seems to me that the Irish Judicial system readily accepts that the rape and abuse of children is a lesser crime than the rape and abuse of an adult. Why are there such inconsistencies in cases of rape? Surely rape is rape. Why are child sex offenders getting lesser sentences?
Or is there an ulterior motive hiding beneath all this?
We all know that the catholic church holds massive precedence in the Irish state. Are these lenient sentences imposed for the rape of children presently making way for lesser sentences for religious figureheads in the future?

Irish Judicial System: Rape of a child a lesser crime than the rape an adult.

Your views please. Thank you.

PirateShampoo

Justification and AH, this should end well.

PirateShampoo

Plus the first case is a very different case from the second 2.

caseyann

Majority of people agree with you for some unknown reason not in judicial system in any country of world do they agree with us:mad:
Its not just Ireland Netherlands etc... they get fines and 3 month sentences.:(

There is needed a complete overhaul of Judicial systems.

Dudess

caseyann wrote: »

Its not just Ireland Netherlands etc... they get fines and 3 month sentences.:(

Where? Who? When? For what?

minidazzler

Because too many of our laws were influenced by the catholic church, and we all know their track record on sex abuse and victims of same. (Magdalene Laundries for pregnant girls raped by whoever)

But it's also because we are a country full of begrudgers.

Overheal

Well you see: Ger Doyle was an Olympic Coach for Ireland. Ireland doesnt like to jail its athletes for some reason. Look at the Eddie Halvey sentence ffs.


And to the lawyers who defend these shells of humanity with special terms like Aberration: There is a special place in Hell for you.

caseyann

Dudess wrote: »

Where? Who? When? For what?

For Pedophiles.:(

AtariBaby

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Plus the first case is a very different case from the second 2.

Could you elaborate, please?

brummytom

The Justice system, as a whole, in most countries, is inconsistent. It's a shame, but that's the way it is.

Also, all three cases are very different. The latter two had no previous. The first man raped one woman, held another man captive and threatened to kill the two.

minidazzler

caseyann wrote: »

For Pedophiles.:(

I think what she meant was linky to proof? That sounds like a grossly disproportionate punihment.

Overheal

brummytom wrote: »

The first man raped one woman, held another man captive and threatened to kill the two.

So thats

6 months suspended sentence for raping a woman
1 life sentence for threatening to kill her
1 life sentence for threatening to kill him
1 life sentence for kidnapping him
1 life sentence for handcuffing his left arm
1 life sentence for handcuffing his right arm

am i right?

AtariBaby

caseyann wrote: »

Majority of people agree with you for some unknown reason not in judicial system in any country of world do they agree with us:mad:
Its not just Ireland Netherlands etc... they get fines and 3 month sentences.:(

There is needed a complete overhaul of Judaical systems.

Thank you. I totally agree. Did you know that the amount of child sex offenders in this country has increased by 68% over the last 5 years. For some strange reason, all countries are directing their child sex offenders toward Ireland.

brummytom

Overheal wrote: »

So thats

6 months suspended sentence for raping a woman
1 life sentence for threatening to kill her
1 life sentence for threatening to kill him
1 life sentence for kidnapping him
1 life sentence for handcuffing his left arm
1 life sentence for handcuffing his right arm

am i right?

I'm not condoning it; I'm just saying the 3 aren't the most comparable

Overheal

brummytom wrote: »

I'm not condoning it; I'm just saying the 3 aren't the most comparable

I only agree that they are difficult to compare as they are somewhat apples and oranges: theyre both fruit [rape] but hard to compare to eachother.

brummytom

Overheal wrote: »

I only agree that they are difficult to compare as they are somewhat apples and oranges: theyre both fruit [rape] but hard to compare to eachother.

Yeah.. I know. I agree

Dudess

caseyann wrote: »

For Pedophiles.:(

Could you be more specific?

PirateShampoo

AtariBaby wrote: »

Could you elaborate, please?

Brummytom already beat me to it.

I wasn't defending any of the cases, just saying they are different offenses and situations and not really comparable.

caseyann

minidazzler wrote: »

I think what she meant was linky to proof? That sounds like a grossly disproportionate punihment.

Oh sorry i cant.It would only give dutch news.And i don't read it.I am told this by some people i know who live there.

AtariBaby

minidazzler wrote: »

Because too many of our laws were influenced by the catholic church, and we all know their track record on sex abuse and victims of same. (Magdalene Laundries for pregnant girls raped by whoever)

But it's also because we are a country full of begrudgers.

I understand your point but I feel the need to point out the fact that not all priests are child molestors [paedophiles]. Child molestors [paedophiles] are made up of all walks of life, postmen, judges, gardai, accountants, solicitors, teachers, etc etc but not all postmen, judges, gardai, accountants, solicitors, teachers etc etc are child molestors [paedophiles].

AtariBaby

Overheal wrote: »

Well you see: Ger Doyle was an Olympic Coach for Ireland. Ireland doesnt like to jail its athletes for some reason. Look at the Eddie Halvey sentence ffs.


And to the lawyers who defend these shells of humanity with special terms like Aberration: There is a special place in Hell for you.[/QUOTE]

Quoted for truth!!

minidazzler

AtariBaby wrote: »

I understand your point but I feel the need to point out the fact that not all priests are child molestors [paedophiles]. Child molestors [paedophiles] are made up of all walks of life, postmen, judges, gardai, accountants, solicitors, teachers, etc etc but not all postmen, judges, gardai, accountants, solicitors, teachers etc etc are child molestors [paedophiles].

I understand that, but it was the heirarchy of the Catholic church who were complicit along with many other people in hiding said abuse, and in fact alot more abuse that was carried out by men on women.

It basically became OK for men to do as they please in this country because the church made it so.

Our laws haven't quite caught up with our morality.

caseyann

AtariBaby wrote: »

Thank you. I totally agree. Did you know that the amount of child sex offenders in this country has increased by 68% over the last 5 years. For some strange reason, all countries are directing their child sex offenders toward Ireland.

I didnt know percentage but i did know we had become safe haven for them.Because Irish immigration policies we have are nil to void:( Australia from what i have seen are amazing for making a point to check all criminal backgrounds.I think there is where it should start!

minidazzler

AtariBaby wrote: »

Thank you. I totally agree. Did you know that the amount of child sex offenders PROSECUTED in this country has increased by 68% over the last 5 years. For some strange reason, all countries are directing their child sex offenders toward Ireland.

FYP, we have always had child sex offenders, and lots of them, but "no one knew", it was kept under wraps.

So, it's prosecutions which have increased, not sex offences.

AtariBaby

brummytom wrote: »

The Justice system, as a whole, in most countries, is inconsistent. It's a shame, but that's the way it is.

Also, all three cases are very different. The latter two had no previous. The first man raped one woman, held another man captive and threatened to kill the two.

I fail to see any difference in the 3 cases.
You say the latter 2 had no previous. What has that got to do with it. It just means that they were much better at keeping their crimes hidden, which in turn would make them a much bigger threat in society. Also,
you say the first man raped one woman, held another captive and threatened to kill both.

The other criminals raped several and who is to say that they didn't hold other children captive or threaten to kill them. Paedophiles will always threathen the child that they will harm them or other family members if the victimized child tells anyone.

AtariBaby

brummytom wrote: »

I'm not condoning it; I'm just saying the 3 aren't the most comparable

Of course they are comparable.
A woman is raped. A child is raped.
A man is held captive. A child is held captive.
The criminal threatens murder toward both adults. It's most common in child abuse that the child [or a member of the child's family] is threatned with harm or death in order to silence the victimized child.

Where are these differences that you speak of? I fail to see them.

AtariBaby

Overheal wrote: »

I only agree that they are difficult to compare as they are somewhat apples and oranges: theyre both fruit [rape] but hard to compare to eachother.

I'm still waiting for someone to show me the differences but yet all I see is people saying they are different but it is not accompanied by any rational explanation or insight.

I hate to repeat myself but........

Of course they are comparable.
A woman is raped. A child is raped.
A man is held captive. A child is held captive.
The criminal threatens murder toward both adults. It's most common in child abuse that the child [or a member of the child's family] is threatned with harm or death in order to silence the victimized child.

Where are these differences that you speak of? I fail to see them.

AtariBaby

minidazzler wrote: »

I understand that, but it was the heirarchy of the Catholic church who were complicit along with many other people in hiding said abuse, and in fact alot more abuse that was carried out by men on women.

It basically became OK for men to do as they please in this country because the church made it so.

Our laws haven't quite caught up with our morality.

I totally agree. The Vatican in Rome was well aware of child abuse as far back as the 1970's and covered it all up. But what I'm saying is that not all priests are child molestors. Yes, there are many, the Vatican knew about it and covered it up, but there are still a lot of priests who didn't know what was going on. A commander does not tell his grunts everything.
To be honest, if it wasn't for the brave victims coming out about those dreadful, unforgiveable era's, the Vatican would still be covering it up.

Thanks to all you brave people for coming out and exposing Ireland for what it truly is. A state controlled by self obsessed ritualists wearing weird frocks and to Ireland, a country which gives sanctuary to child sex offenders all across the world.

Its strange in Ireland that the public do not have access to it's nations child sex offender registry. The only people who can view the registry are the Gardai. Whilst there are many sex offenders living in our neighbourhoods [unknown to us], the Gardai view it best to not let us know who or where they are. Maybe in the next case of child abuse, the Gardai should be put on trial, convicted and placed in jail for criminal negligence and failure to serve and protect the community, for which is part of their contract.

AtariBaby

caseyann wrote: »

I didnt know percentage but i did know we had become safe haven for them.Because Irish immigration policies we have are nil to void:( Australia from what i have seen are amazing for making a point to check all criminal backgrounds.I think there is where it should start!

I sadly have to agree. Our Immigration policies are non existent. But maybe that is the way Ireland wants them to be.:(

Overheal

AtariBaby wrote: »

I'm still waiting for someone to show me the differences but yet all I see is people saying they are different but it is not accompanied by any rational explanation or insight.

I hate to repeat myself but........

Of course they are comparable.
A woman is raped. A child is raped.
A man is held captive. A child is held captive.
The criminal threatens murder toward both adults. It's most common in child abuse that the child [or a member of the child's family] is threatned with harm or death in order to silence the victimized child.

Where are these differences that you speak of? I fail to see them.

Youre talking about one being a violent kidnapping involving premeditation to the point of having keys copied and in others you have repeated coercion of children into boiler rooms and tool sheds to have your way with them.

I never said which one I thought was worse. But its not hard to guess. Im just saying one is not the other; though not far off.

minidazzler

AtariBaby wrote: »

I totally agree. The Vatican in Rome was well aware of child abuse as far back as the 1970's and covered it all up. But what I'm saying is that not all priests are child molestors. Yes, there are many, the Vatican knew about it and covered it up, but there are still a lot of priests who didn't know what was going on. A commander does not tell his grunts everything.
To be honest, if it wasn't for the brave victims coming out about those dreadful, unforgiveable era's, the Vatican would still be covering it up.

Thanks to all you brave people for coming out and exposing Ireland for what it truly is. A state controlled by self obsessed ritualists wearing weird frocks and to Ireland, a country which gives sanctuary to child sex offenders all across the world.

Its strange in Ireland that the public do not have access to it's nations child sex offender registry. The only people who can view the registry are the Gardai. Whilst there are many sex offenders living in our neighbourhoods [unknown to us], the Gardai view it best to not let us know who or where they are. Maybe in the next case of child abuse, the Gardai should be put on trial, convicted and placed in jail for criminal negligence and failure to serve and protect the community, for which is part of their contract.

A commander might not tell his troops everything, but he is ultimately responsible. I would argue the vast majority of the clergy knew what was going on, but was too pussy to stop it.

The sex offender registry, I see alot of good reasons to be public, but at the same time, if someone has served their time, then they should be allowed at least try to get on with their lives with some degree of normality. Though time served is simply not enough IMO.