Vitamin B12 Deficiency

The_Conductor

Jumboman wrote: »

Has anyone tried this stuff ? B12 Liquid, its suppose to work for people who cant digest B12 in the stomach.

http://www.thehealthstore.ie/index.php/solgar-vitamin-b12-liquid-2000ug.html

You don't digest B12 in the stomach. Its a vitamin that is absorbed in a precise area of the intestinal tract (the terminal ileum). Certain conditions may impair or totally stop absorption of B12- Crohn's Disease for example tends to start in the terminal ileum and work its way up and down the intestinal tract (and can also occur externally). Me- I've had my ileum removed- so I physically don't have anywhere to absorb B12- hence the injections. Someone with a lesser issue may have their lack of B12 satiated with a tonic- others not. I wouldn't rely on it- without getting followup blood tests to confirm it was sufficient- I'd be thrilled if it were sufficient, but you still need followup........

LegacyUser

Hi,

I think I may have b12 deficiency as I could relate to the symptoms. I suffer from Crohns Disease and have done so for a decade now and read that auto immune disease especially those that affect the gut, as in my case, can lead to deficiency.
So I went to the doctor who sent me to the hospital to have the tests done to check my levels, before the test I had been overdosing myself with B12 supplements to try and get my levels up. The results of the test were 374 and this was considered within the normal range and so the doctor concluded I will not be getting the shots. I was not happy with the results and did my own reading and found out that what is categorised as normal range is far too low than other countries for example in Japan a score of 500 would be considered as deficient and I recall reading in an article that the pernicious anemia society in the UK advise it members that a score of less than 1000 is to be considered low for its members.
I became worried when I read posters here were posting scores of less than 100 before doctors deciding to give them treatment, does this mean if you get a score of over 200 that you are out of the woods, not if you go by international standards of what is considered a normal range.
Just thought I will let you know.

Jumboman

Anyone tried taking B12 patchs instead of injections ?

The_Conductor

Jumboman wrote: »

Anyone tried taking B12 patchs instead of injections ?

I wasn't aware there were (are) patches commercially available.
Would they give a similar dosage, given the injections are 1000Mg intramuscular injections- aka would a topical patch have similar efficacy? Would a single patch do the job (on a monthly basis) or would you be wearing new patches every other day? If you have a link to the patches, with objective reviews- I'd love to see it.

Jumboman

smccarrick wrote: »

I wasn't aware there were (are) patches commercially available.
Would they give a similar dosage, given the injections are 1000Mg intramuscular injections- aka would a topical patch have similar efficacy? Would a single patch do the job (on a monthly basis) or would you be wearing new patches every other day? If you have a link to the patches, with objective reviews- I'd love to see it.

You can buy them from viepatch.com not sure if their any good.
They sell them in 5000mcg

http://viepatch.com/products/

Amazon reviews it here but you cant buy it from amazon if your in Ireland


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Viepatch-Vitamin-Strength-Patches-5000mcg/dp/B008ATOU7M/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1363178088&sr=8-2

locum-motion

Jumboman wrote: »

You can buy them from viepatch.com not sure if their any good.
They sell them in 5000mcg

http://viepatch.com/products/

Amazon reviews it here but you cant buy it from amazon if your in Ireland


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Viepatch-Vitamin-Strength-Patches-5000mcg/dp/B008ATOU7M/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1363178088&sr=8-2

This is not a licenced medicinal product in this country.
If it is available as a licenced product in another jurisdiction, it may be possible for your pharmacy to obtain it for you especially, but it would have to be prescribed by a doctor.
Importing medicines is illegal unless you have an importer's licence (especially if the product isn't licenced in this country).
Placing an order, receiving a delivery, and supplying a medicine via mail order (including online) are ALL illegal in this country.

Jumboman

locum-motion wrote: »

This is not a licenced medicinal product in this country.
If it is available as a licenced product in another jurisdiction, it may be possible for your pharmacy to obtain it for you especially, but it would have to be prescribed by a doctor.
Importing medicines is illegal unless you have an importer's licence (especially if the product isn't licenced in this country).
Placing an order, receiving a delivery, and supplying a medicine via mail order (including online) are ALL illegal in this country.

How can it be illegal when B12 is not a controlled substance ?

locum-motion

Jumboman wrote: »

How can it be illegal when B12 is not a controlled substance ?

It wouldn't be the substance that would be 'controlled', it would be the product. 'Medicinal products' are subject to regulations.

the culture of deference

Just had my 150th injection in 4 1/2 years. Lowest reading I had was 103. Now I can feel when I need an injection when levels get to 400 mark.

I Started getting my bloods checked weekly about 3 years ago when I realised that you have to tackle this disease head on and insist that your doctor gets you tested regularly.

Before injection 413

Injection of Neo Cyt and the level goes to over 1,400

End week 1 780
End week 2 500
End week 3 350
End week 4 200

So if you are attending a doctor and are getting monthly or 3 monthly injections get at least 1 blood test a month.

Jumboman

Anyone know it its possble to get Methylcobalamin B12 injections as opposed to Cyanocobalamin B12 ?

Cyanocobalamin is poison in my opinion.

mel.b

Jumboman wrote: »

Anyone know it its possble to get Methylcobalamin B12 injections as opposed to Cyanocobalamin B12 ?

Cyanocobalamin is poison in my opinion.

What is the difference and why do you say that?

I have Neo-cytamen (Hydroxocobalamin) every 3 months.

I was diagnosed with B12 deficiency approx 8 yrs ago in my mid 20s. My main symptom was feeling really down and I thought it was anemia. I am a vegetarian and have been since I was very young and a very selective eater, however I don't know if my deficiency is diet related or because I can't absorb the B12.

I know a while ago I was quite overdue in getting my injection (probably 3months ) and couldn't get to the doctor, so I took some Berocca B complex for a week or so. It might have been the Placebo effect but I certainly started to feel better. This leads me to think that my B12 deficiency is more diet related. However when I next have to see the doctor I am going to be asked to tested specifically to see which it is, as if it is diet related I can take a B12 tablet each day instead of having to get an injection every few months. Does anyone inject themselves? If I need to continue with the injections, I am going to learn how to do it myself so I won't have to keep going to the doctor.

Jumboman

mel.b wrote: »

What is the difference and why do you say that?

Your vitamin B-12 could contain cyanide



(NaturalNews) What's in your vitamin B-12? If your vitamin label says cyanocobalamin, it is a cheap, synthetic chemical made in the laboratory that is produced with cyanide. Low-end vitamin manufacturers use this to claim that their product "contains vitamin B-12." They won't tell you that this form of B-12 is bound to a toxic cyanide molecule that must then be detoxified from your body by your liver. Curiously, cyanide is a known poison.

Cyanide causes a chemical change that keeps the oxygen from getting into your red blood cells.
No matter how cyanide gets into your body, it works the same way. It can be inhaled, swallowed or absorbed through the skin and/or muscle. If you are exposed to even small amounts of cyanide you will have the following symptoms: rapid breathing/heartbeat, restlessness and decreased ability to stay on task, dizziness, weakness, headache, eye itching/burning, nausea/vomiting.

If you are exposed to a large amount of cyanide it can cause convulsions/seizures, very slow heartbeat, loss of consciousness, breathing cessation and death. Not something you want in your friendly vitamin!

Meet the hero!

Vitamin B-12 has the largest and most complex chemical structure of all vitamins. It contains the metal ion cobalt and thus, the term cobalamin is used for the scientific name of B-12. The coenzyme form of vitamin B-12, AKA methylcobalamin, is the primary form of the vitamin used by the body.

Vitamin B-12 is essential for optimum liver function and is critical for normal brain and nervous system operation. B-12 deficiencies can lead to symptoms that are mistaken for Alzheimer's disease. Low B-12 levels can cause irritability, apathy, confusion, forgetfulness, serious depression, dementia, paranoia and/or hallucinations. Sometimes a little methylcobalamin is enough to boost the old mental blues.

A Johns Hopkins study recorded that women with the lowest levels of B-12 were up to four times more likely to develop breast cancer than those with higher levels. B-12 deficiency is connected to osteoporosis as B-12 is crucial to the formation of osteoblasts (bone-forming cells). Studies also show that intramuscular methylcobalamin injections are a very wonderful source of shingles relief.

Meet the villain

The history of vitamin B-12 and the switch from the methyl to the cyanide form of B-12 is the result of using charcoal to filter extracts during the isolation of B-12. Cyanide in charcoal rapidly converts all natural forms of B-12 into the cheaper "more stable" (but NOT better) cyanide form. Because of this fact, the discovery of B-12 coenzymes and their life-altering metabolic role was delayed for years. Once again, Big Money and sloppy science are helping destroy your health.

Most B-12 circulating in the blood is in the methylcobalamin form. Before the body can use the cyanocobalamin form, it must be converted by the liver to methylcobalamin. Not only does the cyanide in cyanocobalamin poison you like some crazy rendition of Arsenic and Old Lace, the cyanide actually depletes your body of stored methyl groups. At the same time, these methyls are needed to synthesize cobalamin in your liver.

Children with autism do not process methylate properly - causing anxiety, panic and other problems. High Homocysteine levels in Autism are caused by the lack of methylation. Methylcobalamin is the only form of vitamin B-12 which can directly participate in homocysteine metabolism in children with Autism and other development issues.

Methylcobalamin is the most reduced form of vitamin B-12; possible making it a very potent antioxidant. This is one of the main vitamins which many people are deficient in. This is especially true in older adults and vegetarians. If you buy the supplement or take a B-12 shot, always use the active methylcobalamin form and NEVER use the cyanocobalamin form that has cyanide attached to it.

Throw away your cyanocobalamin and find some methylcobalamin today.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/036367_vitamin_B-12_cyanide_cyanocobalamin.html#ixzz2Suzd3Sws

locum-motion

Jumboman wrote: »

Anyone know it its possble to get Methylcobalamin B12 injections as opposed to Cyanocobalamin B12 ?

No, but Hydroxocobalamin is available (and far inferior to Cyanocobalamin).

Jumboman wrote: »

Cyanocobalamin is poison in my opinion.

Your opinion is incorrect.

The_Conductor

I'd seriously dispute there being any issue with the cyanocobalamin- version of B12. Certainly methylcobalamin is B12 in its reduced state- however one of the reasons for using Cyanocobalamin is to control the release of the B12 over a period of time, and to stabilise it as a product.

In addition- and contrary to what you're suggesting- cyanide (CN) is naturally occurring in many foods and is a 100% natural compound. You can claim the charcoal process for cleaning is a contributor to the degree of isomerisation- to your hearts content- thats complete and utter quackery though. Charcoal (activated carbon) is used extensively as a cleaning agent in laboratories, in manufacturing processes- and one of the biggest uses is to remove ammonia from the water and cleanse water in aquariums by those who keep fish. I've boxes of it in the attic- along with marine grade cotton and other chemical cleaning paraphernalia.

CN has a relatively high LD50- and in addition, when used as a stabiliser in medication, the LD50 increases on an individual basis. Aka- if, for arguments sake, you were to poison someone with it- if they had ongoing exposure to CN in the work environment (or through their diet, or whatever) unlike heavy metal poisoning- their tolerance of it would be massively increased- before it had any effect on them whatsoever.

Lots of plants have low to medium levels of natural CN in them- the innocuous daffodil for example- or indeed as any farmer will warn you- rhubarb leaves (which perversely young lambs seem to seek out, perhaps they have an inkling of whats ahead of them).

That article you're quoting is pure and utter quackery- let me guess- they also are shrilly telling parents not to vaccinate their children etc.?

Just because you can find a website to support your point of view (and believe you me- no matter what your point of view is- someone, somewhere will support you)- does not mean your theory has any merit whatsoever.

Jumboman

smccarrick wrote: »

That article you're quoting is pure and utter quackery- let me guess- they also are shrilly telling parents not to vaccinate their children etc.?

Yeah for good reason. Do you not see any problem with them putting mercury into vaccines ?

The_Conductor

Jumboman wrote: »

Yeah for good reason. Do you not see any problem with them putting mercury into vaccines ?

You're happily quoting quackery in support of your theory that I and others are poisoning ourselves, and indeed, have agreed with me that you're against vaccinating children. What more do I really need to say? Kids have died from measles in Ireland and the UK over the past 7 weeks, because people have paid heed to your calls not to vaccinate their children. As for the HPV vaccination that you in particular have drawn attention to- its now been approved for boys as well as girls, as it has been shown in clinical trials to significantly reduce the occurrence of neck cancers in males. Programmes to vaccinate boys are already underway in Australia and France, and several other countries are considering it (Ireland is studying the French experiences at the moment).

Holistic medicine certainly does have its place- however a misplaced faith in its ability to treat many chronic conditions and/or ailments, causes much unnecessary suffering and grief for very many people. I'm not even going to mention the placebo effect- however it most certainly does exist.

Jumboman

smccarrick wrote: »

You're happily quoting quackery

How is it quackery please explain ?

in support of your theory that I and others are poisoning ourselves,

Yes you also poision your self if you drink water straight from the tap I dont see how you can find this hard to believe.

indeed, have agreed with me that you're against vaccinating children. What more do I really need to say? Kids have died from measles in Ireland and the UK over the past 7 weeks, because people have paid heed to your calls not to vaccinate their children.

And how many people have died from vaccines that you dont hear about ? Tell me why we should inject children with mercury and other toxins ? even you must admit that mercury is poison.

As for the HPV vaccination that you in particular have drawn attention to- its now been approved for boys as well as girls, as it has been shown in clinical trials to significantly reduce the occurrence of neck cancers in males.

So that means its safe the fact that its being "approved" what about the girl in the video and others like her who were screwed up by the vaccine.
The FDA has approved many dangerous drugs before like vioxx which killed thousands of people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vioxx

tbh

Jumboman wrote: »

So that means its safe the fact that its being "approved" what about the girl in the video and others like her who were screwed up by the vaccine.
The FDA has approved many dangerous drugs before like vioxx which killed thousands of people.

listen - I get you believe what you're saying, but this isn't the forum for long rants about mercury backed up by wiki pages.
Direct moderator instruction: do not post in this thread again.

Dee01

I was mis-diagnosed numerous times (w/o blood tests etc) and I was finally diagnosed as B12 deficient about 3 years ago.The whole fact mentioned above that your body had 7 years of this stuff stored rings true for me!

I have had awful trouble sourcing the drug AND the syringes.

My sister is a nurse so when I have been able to get both she showed me what I should be doing. I have to say, as this is an intramuscular injection, if it doesn't hurt, you're not doing it right. My sister advised me it would be the least painful in the thigh. Im not 100% on what I can and can't say (medical advice) but I agree with her.

I would love to see this thread revived for support

Pretzill

Dee01 wrote: »

I was mis-diagnosed numerous times (w/o blood tests etc) and I was finally diagnosed as B12 deficient about 3 years ago.The whole fact mentioned above that your body had 7 years of this stuff stored rings true for me!

I have had awful trouble sourcing the drug AND the syringes.

My sister is a nurse so when I have been able to get both she showed me what I should be doing. I have to say, as this is an intramuscular injection, if it doesn't hurt, you're not doing it right. My sister advised me it would be the least painful in the thigh. Im not 100% on what I can and can't say (medical advice) but I agree with her.

I would love to see this thread revived for support

I was dxg quite young at 30 have no probs getting the inj. from chemist and my doc gives it in the arm, not too sore but I only need a top up once every 3 months.

SarahC91

I was diagnosed with this last august and my doctor put me on pharmaton is this normal for sufferers?

Jumboman

I saw the nurse at my GPs clinic today she said I cant get a B12 test without a visit to my GP. This sounds like a scam why do I need to see my GP to get another B12 test ?

Dee01

Jumboman wrote: »

I saw the nurse at my GPs clinic today she said I cant get a B12 test without a visit to my GP. This sounds like a scam why do I need to see my GP to get another B12 test ?

I give them to myself now, but my doc gave me the option to go to the nurse for a quarter of the price. Is there a nurse in ur surgery?

mel.b

I was at the doctors this week so asked if he could test me to see if I could go onto b12 tablets instead of injections (as I thought being vegetarian was the reason for my deficiency). However the tests have come back inconclusive...I am negative for the intrinsic factor but positive for the parietal antibodies. I've tried google, but I'm still unsure what this actually means. The doctor has said they could do the Shilling test, but what was interesting was that he said my B12 levels were extremely high - I had my most recent injection only a couple of weeks ago and it was 4mths before that when I had the last. Even accounting for the most recent injection he said they were high - so high that potentially I don't need an injection for the next 2 yrs. We settled on missing the next injection due in 3mths and retesting my b12 levels in 6mths to see what they are like. Has anyone else experienced this?

briocht

I just wanted to add that I managed to get my levels back to normal using a supplement by Solgar.

My doctor told me they wouldn't be enough to get me up in the time frame (though she didn't even check the bottle).

But after my first injection I decided I wanted to try the supplement route. I took one supplement a day (and they were small chewy and cherry flavoured so quite pleasant really).

When I went back for my follow up blood test, my results came back completely normal.

My doctor was amazed and took down the name of the vitamin and everything.

So if anyone has a severe fear of needles (like I did at the time) maybe supplements could help you.

Just make sure to discuss it with your doctor first of course!

Jumboman

Had a blood test last week my B12 levels are over 1000 now last year I only had 150. I had injections last year but since then I've just been taking b12 supplements. A doctor told me I would need injections for the rest of my life looks like he was wrong.

mel.b

Similar to me Jumboman. My recent test, my B12 levels were over 2000 :eeek: we are going to skip my next injection and retest my levels at Xmas to see what they are like, but i suspect i can probably skip injections for the next year at least. Rather than not being able to absord b12 i think my deficiency is diet related and i should be ok in tablets but the doc wants to wait and see.

The_Conductor

I'm the other end of the spectrum- a level of 20. My ferritin level is 2.4, iron level is 4.0 and my haemoglobin is 8.9- a bit of a mess tbh

gweny

Hi All, have any of you who received the injections, had any
problems with gout?
My son has Sarcoidosis and because of his vegan diet, was diagnosed low
on Vit.B 12. On the last shot he had an awful attack of gout:( he thinks its
the B 12 that has caused it. Do any of you think its possible? thanks

miss no stars

gweny wrote: »

Hi All, have any of you who received the injections, had any
problems with gout?
My son has Sarcoidosis and because of his vegan diet, was diagnosed low
on Vit.B 12. On the last shot he had an awful attack of gout:( he thinks its
the B 12 that has caused it. Do any of you think its possible? thanks

Bearing in mind that medical advice can't be given.. No, I've never had gout after it. If I was in that situation, I'd be more suspicious about long term effects of malnutrition. A vegan diet really isn't what nature intended... Just by looking at human teeth you can see that we've evolved to be omnivores. Even being lacto-ovo vegetarian would be better than vegan.

Best thing your son could do would be to get referred to a dietician, continue to see his GP about the B12 and give some serious thought to his diet choices.

This isn't about points-scoring at this point. Right now the priority has to be his health and, given that he's sick - partially because of his diet, he really should be getting a balanced diet.