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Hutton inquiry closed David Kelly medical reports for 70 years

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭studiorat


    So it wasn't a hit-squad from Iraq so Ted?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭uprising2


    Di0genes wrote: »
    You think it's abnormal show me it isn't

    Is that a trick question?, it "IS" abnormal, why would anybody saying it is abnormal show you it isn't?
    So your saying a 70 year gagging order is normal, are you for real?, if it's so normal maybe show where this has happened in the past, if you can't then accept it is abnormal, which it is!.
    Di0genes wrote: »
    Yes people directly effected by the events. No one was more effected by the death of Kelly then his family, if there any substance to the surrounding odf his death they would be the first ones to cry foul.


    Ever think maybe their scared to rock the boat?, they cannot fight the whole establishment, which they would have to do, and the risk of an accident occuring maybe helped their decision.
    Remember Dr Kelly said "Many dark actors playing games", so maybe he warned his family in a less trivial way.
    A letter, leaked to The Mail on Sunday, revealed that a 30-year ban was placed on ‘records provided [which were] not produced in evidence’. This is thought to refer to witness statements given to the inquiry which were not disclosed at the time.
    http://judithmilleranddrdavidkellyandwmd.blogspot.com/2010/01/dr-kelly-hutton-records-locked-for-70.html

    But all in all, there is no justification in hiding these autopsy/medical reports, unless there is something to hide (murder), anybody who buy's the official verdict (suicide) need's a dose of reality.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Kelly_(weapons_expert)#Controversial_issues
    "I will probably be found dead in the woods"
    Fatality of ulnar artery cuts
    Little blood lost
    No fingerprints on knife
    Lack of formal inquest
    On 5 December 2009 six doctors began legal action to demand a formal inquest into the death, claiming there was "insufficient evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt he killed himself." However in January 2010, Lord Hutton ordered that all files relating to his post mortem remain secret for 70 years for reasons which he himself and the Ministry of Justice have not explained.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    It all depends on how you look at it:
    uprising2 wrote: »

    "I will probably be found dead in the woods"
    Was he simply stating that he intended to kill himself? It could have been a cry for help, after all, wasn't he suffering from stress and depression at the time?
    uprising2 wrote: »
    Fatality of ulnar artery cuts
    He died from a combination of the wounds and the bottle of pills he took. Together, it's possible that they killed him.
    uprising2 wrote: »
    Little blood lost
    Shallow wounds and it being cold outside could be the cause of this. But there was still blood loss. For a man with a heart condition, any amount of blood loss could be dangerous and again, added to the pills it could have lead to his death.
    uprising2 wrote: »
    No fingerprints on knife
    Was there no fingerprints on the knife, or no salvagable fingerprints on the knife? If prints were smudged, then the report would simply say they got no fingerprints from it. Not sure if anyone has a copy of the report which could make that clear?
    uprising2 wrote: »
    Lack of formal inquest
    Although odd, he did work for the MOD, and they've a tendency to keep things secret. That said, several Tory elements are currently trying to get the inquest reopened, so we'll see.

    Also, remember that Kelly firmly believed that there were WMD's in Iraq. Some CT'er contend that he claimed there weren't, but this is a misunderstanding of what he said. He said that the examples that were given (a couple fo mobile "chemical labs") couldn't have been what they were looking for. So there's less of a reason to murder him than was originally given.

    Psychologically, Kelly fit the profile for someone who would take their own life. He was under immense stress, he was being railroaded to some extend, and he really had no way out. He had a bad heart and a compbination of a bottle of pills and a certain amount of blood loss could easily lead to him losing consciousness and the cold would take care of the rest. The official story isn't implausible at all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭uprising2


    humanji wrote: »
    The official story isn't implausible at all.

    Either is Bambi, but come-on.......................

    Ok just say I accept he committed suicide, the truth has prevailed and all that, then I hit another barrier while trying to convince my friend he committed suicide, he says to me "Yea but they won't release the autopsy results for another 70 years, they must be hiding something and a policeman moved the body", what should I say to convince him that everything is as they say it is?


    Any help much appreciated.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    uprising2 wrote: »
    Either is Bambi, but come-on.......................

    Ok just say I accept he committed suicide, the truth has prevailed and all that, then I hit another barrier while trying to convince my friend he committed suicide, he says to me "Yea but they won't release the autopsy results for another 70 years, they must be hiding something and a policeman moved the body", what should I say to convince him that everything is as they say it is?


    Any help much appreciated.
    You tell them it's suspicious, but proof of nothing. There could be any number of reasons for it.

    If he was killed by a government that one would assume has people who specialise in that sort of thing, would you not think they'd have done a good job of it, instead of a horrifically sloppy one?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭TalkieWalkie


    Dr David Kelly was on a hitlist, says UN weapons expert as calls grow for full inquest.

    A leading UN weapons inspector last night added his voice to the growing clamour for a full inquest into the death of Dr David Kelly.

    Dr Richard Spertzl claimed Dr Kelly was on a 'hitlist' in the final years of his life.

    The former head of the UN Biological Section, who worked closely with Dr Kelly in Iraq in the 1990s, has written to Attorney General Dominic Grieve about the 'mysterious circumstances' surrounding the death.

    The weapons inspector's body was found after he was unmasked as the source of a damaging BBC news report questioning the grounds for the Iraq war.

    Officially, he took his own life.

    Yesterday Dr Spertzl told the Mail that the British authorities were 'intentionally ignoring' the issue.

    He believes that there is something 'fishy' and insisted that a coroner should examine the death as soon as possible.

    His demands come 24 hours after nine of Britain's leading medical experts wrote an open letter to minsters demanding a full inquest.

    Dr Spertzl said: 'I know that David, as well as myself and a couple of others, were on an Iraqi hitlist. In late 1997, we were told by the Russian embassy in Baghdad. I had no idea what it meant but apparently David and I were high on the priority list.'

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1302939/Dr-David-Kelly-hitlist-says-UN-weapons-expert-calls-grow-inquest.html?ito=feeds-newsxml#ixzz0wWiRNTOT


    article-1302939-0ACA13BE000005DC-569_468x230.jpg

    The Iraqi intelligence service did not take kindly to such action so my first reaction [to Dr Kelly's death] was "we'd better watch our backs".'

    No inquest has ever been held into Dr Kelly's death. Instead, a public inquiry chaired by Lord Hutton was set up to investigate the circumstances surrounding it.
    Inquest call: Dr Richard Spertzl claims he and Dr Kelly were on a hitlist

    Inquest call: Dr Richard Spertzl claims he and Dr Kelly were on a hitlist

    The inquiry ruled that the 59-year-old committed suicide in woodland near his Oxfordshire home in July 2003 by cutting the ulnar artery in his wrist with a blunt pruning knife.

    Dr Spertzl, who is based in Washington where he continues to write and lecture on biological weapons, said: 'My concern about David Kelly's death is exactly what the doctors are saying now - that is, it's virtually impossible to commit suicide by slashing your wrist in that way.

    'It just doesn't make sense. It seems to me that they [the British authorities] are intentionally ignoring all this. Something's fishy.'

    Yesterday some of the doctors who wrote to ministers demanded an end to the shroud of secrecy over the death.

    They want the official post-mortem results to be made public and for witnesses to give evidence under oath.

    Concern over the cause of death has been mounting after it emerged in January that all medical and scientific records, including the post-mortem report and photographs of the body, were secretly classified for 70 years in 2004.

    Sir Barry Jackson, past president of the British Academy of Forensic Science and one of the doctors who wrote to ministers, said yesterday: 'In my experience from 30 years as a practising surgeon I find it difficult to agree with the cause of death as listed on his death certificate.'
    Dr Kelly

    Another, Dr Elizabeth Driver, a solicitor and Fellow of the Royal College of Pathologists, added: 'As a pathologist I cannot understand how Dr Kelly could have died from blood loss of a severed ulnar artery. It makes no medical sense. Little is known about the medical facts because the post-mortem has been kept secret.

    'There are obvious questions which were not addressed in the inquiry.'

    Doubts over the official version of his death have previously been raised by Mai Pederson, a U.S. Air Force linguist who served in Iraq with Dr Kelly's weapons inspection team.

    She said he had a painful elbow injury which meant his hand was too weak to cut a steak.

    He would have to have been a 'contortionist' to have killed himself in the way the Hutton Inquiry claimed, she said.

    She also said he had a disorder that made it difficult to swallow pills, undermining Lord Hutton's claims that he took some himself.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1302939/Dr-David-Kelly-hitlist-says-UN-weapons-expert-calls-grow-inquest.html?ito=feeds-newsxml


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    Ultimatley ya Could say Kelly comitted suicide.

    He knew enough about the People he was trying to expose to know they would Kill him, but he went on and exposed them anyway, then lo and behold the killed him.

    Thats the only way you would call it Suicide, Kelly should have been aware of what he brought upon himself.


    I notice a little bit of revisionism there where someone said that he DID believe the WMD's were there, then what was the kerfuffle about with him leaking to the BBC documents that showed they werent and that He along with the rest of the world had been fed a bag of Lies.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭uprising2


    This story is back in the news at the moment, it just won't go away

    It was never suicide, says Dr Kelly's cousin as family finally breaks silence

    A close relative of Dr David Kelly broke the family's silence yesterday to voice fears that he was murdered.

    Wendy Wearmouth said she found it 'incredibly unlikely' that he committed suicide and suggested he was assassinated.


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1303674/Dr-David-Kellys-cousin-claims-did-commit-suicide.html#ixzz0wxsPyEBE

    Don't hide the truth over Dr David Kelly's death

    The case for a full inquest into the death of Dr David Kelly's death is unanswerable.
    Every suspicious loss of life should be examined by a coroner, an office dating back to medieval times, to explore forensically whether foul play was involved.
    Yet, inexplicably, Dr Kelly's end wasn't investigated by a corner, despite the huge controversy surrounding the 2003 death of the international weapons inspector.


    Read more: http://www.mirror.co.uk/opinion/voiceofthemirror/2010/08/17/don-t-hide-the-truth-over-dr-david-kelly-s-death-115875-22492897/#ixzz0wxt9BPxN


    'There is not a sliver of evidence to suggest he killed himself': Now suicide expert adds his voice to doubts over Dr Kelly verdict

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1303959/Dr-David-Kelly-Now-suicide-expert-adds-voice-doubts-verdict.html?ito=feeds-newsxml#ixzz0wxtOnDqu



    KELLY'S BLOOD EXPERT AT 1ST BIG JOB

    By Jon Clements 17/08/2010
    EXCLUSIVE: INVESTIGATION THE KELLY FILES
    A forensic scientist who investigated the death of Iraq war whistle-blower Dr David Kelly was a rookie on her first big case.
    The inexperienced assistant had never previously attended the scene of a suspicious death or unexplained killing, the Mirror can reveal.
    And in a separate development yesterday it was confirmed the pathologist who examined Dr Kelly is being investigated over a series of astonishing blunders in another case.



    Read more: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/08/17/kelly-s-blood-expert-at-1st-big-job-115875-22492894/#ixzz0wxuLF65x





  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭uprising2


    article-1301210-0AB08D7B000005DC-855_468x427.jpg
    Key evidence: DC Graham Coe has spoken for the first time about finding the body of Dr David Kelly

    This one admission blow's the whole Hutton Cover-Up wide open, anybody familiar with the case will remember DC Coe gave very conflicting evidence to the rest of the eye witnesses, the body of Dr Kelly was moved etc, these irregularities were never questioned, now he says according to this article that he lied at the Hutton Shamble's,
    Mr Coe also confirmed the disputed existence of a 'third man' with him and his partner DC Colin Shields that day.
    Critics who believe Dr Kelly was murdered have claimed that the suited figure mentioned in the accounts of volunteer searchers could have been from the security services.
    At the Hutton inquiry Mr Coe denied anyone else had been present, but the former Thames Valley Police detective now says there had been a trainee police officer, whom he refused to name and said had left the force.


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1301210/Detective-Dr-David-Kellys-body-raises-questions-death.html#ixzz0x0R3AL91

    A trainee police officer?, who left the force, didn't last very long in the force did he.

    Here's a blast from the past:
    http://www.deadscientists.blogspot.com/2004_02_01_archive.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 924 ✭✭✭Elliemental


    Forgive me if this is an old issue, (I have checked back a few pages, and couldn't find anything).
    However, I'm just watching a report about Dr David Kelly on "The Daily Politics", and read this article on the BBC website. What I want to ask is, what do people here make of this case? What do people here make of the lack of blood at the scene of the man's death, etc?
    Again, sorry if this has been done to death.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭nyarlothothep


    Assasinated, its pretty obvious from the evidence, the wounds weren't sufficient to cause death, I mean they've even gone to great lengths to cover it up, no one can access info on the crime for another 70 years, why do you think that is? Because they've got something to hide.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 461 ✭✭Talk E


    Yup, Murdered. Text book, happens all the time. No surprise.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 924 ✭✭✭Elliemental


    Could the blood not have been soaked into the earth? Hence why there seemed to be relatively little.
    Also, although the painkillers that were alleged to have been taken, would have been reacting to the meds he was taking for a heart condition. Could that not also have been a factor?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Threads merged, as there's more information on the older thread that some might want to read.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 461 ✭✭Talk E


    Could the blood not have been soaked into the earth? Hence why there seemed to be relatively little.
    Also, although the painkillers that were alleged to have been taken, would have been reacting to the meds he was taking for a heart condition. Could that not also have been a factor?

    Sounds to me like you already know the truth but are having difficulty accepting it because the realisation changes everything.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 924 ✭✭✭Elliemental


    humanji wrote: »
    Threads merged, as there's more information on the older thread that some might want to read.

    Didn't spot this one, thanks :D


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