Western Rail Corridor

rainbowdash

This Crusheen kit flying is a joke. Ardrahan and Craughwell should never have been built. Moyross was an obvious choice with LIT, Thomond Park and the Gaelic grounds nearby.

You would get more people taking the train to Thomond Park on one night for games than will use Ardrahan and Craughwell together in a whole year.

serfboard

Carawaystick wrote: »

It's 13.50 by Bus Éireann, it takes 90 mins on Citilink and Irish rail don;'t quote prices nor can you make a reservation online on their new intercity service.....

You can actually get a price online on this if you click the check price button - although you can't actually buy a ticket!

Anyway, to confirm what I heard on Clare FM during the week, a day return from Ennis to Galway will cost you €20 - and if you go today and come back tomorrow it will cost you €28!

dowlingm

Presumably Moyross might be on the table when the Limerick resignalling is done, but given the likely go-slow on redevelopment there I wouldn't hold my breath.

I note the train today was a 4-car 2700 consist. I wonder when scheduled numbers will justify that, rather than a ministerial jolly?

Amtmann

Strange letter in Today's IT:

Madam, – Your article on the welcome reopening of the Limerick-Galway rail line (Home News, March 29th) describes the journey time of under two hours as “slow”. While the train might not be TGV speed, it does beat the published journey time by bus of two hours 25 minutes and the actual journey time of over three hours. And while the AA might calculate the road journey time at 1 hour 29 minutes, those of us who don’t have the opportunity to drive in rocket cars at 2am might have experienced more realistic driving times of about two-and-a-half hours between the two city centres.
The cost of this rail connection has been €100 million. This represents one third of the cost of the Gort Bypass, and one eighth of the cost of the Shannon tunnel – both of which were needed to get the “official” road travel time below two hours, along with further hundreds of millions spent on the Ennis bypass, the N18 dual carriage way, etc.
Indeed, money spent on this rail link, and its reasonable journey time, compares very favourably with the multiple billions spent trying to achieve a similar journey time by road. Had a fifth of this money been spent on the rail line, we really would have a TGV between Limerick and Galway. – Yours, etc,
Dr MARK SUGRUE,
Killester, Dublin 5.

StephenM_smc

Furet wrote: »

Strange letter in Today's IT:

Interesting figures quoted in that letter. Are they actually factually correct?

dubhthach

StephenM_smc wrote: »

Interesting figures quoted in that letter. Are they actually factually correct?

I'd like his crack pipe that's for sure. I recall been in a bus going form NUIG to Cork and it was under 2hours from Galway city centre to Limerick (if not 1 and half) and that was before the Ennis Bypass had been opened.

Throw in Ennis Bypass and the next section to Gort (opening this summer?) and his figures don't stand up at all.

Amtmann

His arguments are easily destroyed. I wish someone would pen a riposte to his letter.

KevR

rainbowdash wrote: »

This Crusheen kit flying is a joke. Ardrahan and Craughwell should never have been built. Moyross was an obvious choice with LIT, Thomond Park and the Gaelic grounds nearby.

You would get more people taking the train to Thomond Park on one night for games than will use Ardrahan and Craughwell together in a whole year.

Agree. It's their own fault if it makes a annual loss of more than €2.4 million. The service targets regional and long distance travellers - the likes of Craughwell and Ardrahan don't have big enough populations and Galway-Limerick journeys are cheaper/faster by bus.

Instead, they should have focused on commuters at both ends. At the Limerick end a station in Moyross like you said. And stations in Oranmore and Renmore at the Galway end. There are now 28 trains going through Oranmore and Renmore everyday but no stations...

spacetweek

StephenM_smc wrote: »

Interesting figures quoted in that letter. Are they actually factually correct?

His numbers are complete nonse!

You're looking at less than 90 mins by car, including congestion at both ends. Future projects (Rest of M18, rest of Limerick ring, Galway bypass), will make this even easier. Express buses could/will appear using the new roads which will be only a little slower than driving (there'll also be more bus lanes in the future, which the bus can use to beat traffic).

He's also making the classic error of thinking that you choose a mode, then get everyone to use that - as in, spend the money on the train, then a road upgrade won't be necessary. This is false. Transport is multi-modal and many users are unable to avoid the road. Both need investment, and the current road is a cattle track.

glineli wrote: »

A lot of talk on a stop to be added in Crusheen if they can get private investment to pay for the stop. Will be interesting to see if this will happen

What is the pop. for Crusheen? Is it more than 1000 or so? Otherwise, no way should that happen.
Look at Ardrahan and Craughwell - tiny villages of a few 100 people. Intercity train passengers should not be needlessly delayed by having to stop there while nobody gets on or off.

Changes needed, in rough order:
- Hurry up with the Oranmore Station/double tracking projects.
- The Athenry "left turn" - allowing trains to run directly northbound then westbound towards Galway without having to swap direction/driver etc. at Athenry.
- Close Craughwell and especially Ardrahan stations. No value-add here and it's wasting passengers' time.
- Spur to Shannon Airport. I know this was ruled out a few years ago in a study they did, but this is nonse - the airport is really important, esp. to Limerick residents.

paulm17781

KevR wrote: »

Instead, they should have focused on commuters at both ends. At the Limerick end a station in Moyross like you said. And stations in Oranmore and Renmore at the Galway end. There are now 28 trains going through Oranmore and Renmore everyday but no stations...

It was because of WoT that they didn't. I know someone (who posts here regularily ) who approached WoT about campaigning for commuter services for Galway, including a station at Oranmore and they were completely not interested. They wanted the WRC nothing else.

glineli

KevR wrote: »

Instead, they should have focused on commuters at both ends. At the Limerick end a station in Moyross like you said. And stations in Oranmore and Renmore at the Galway end. There are now 28 trains going through Oranmore and Renmore everyday but no stations...

Indeed, Oranmore -> Renmore -> Galway would be a great route to have. Along with a park and ride at Oranmore to service Parkmore, Ballybrit etc.

Oranmore is a year away yet, shame. The only concern i have about it, will people walk to the station? Until they build a footbridge over the N18, i cant see many people using it.

KevR

glineli wrote: »

Indeed, Oranmore -> Renmore -> Galway would be a great route to have. Along with a park and ride at Oranmore to service Parkmore, Ballybrit etc.

Oranmore is a year away yet, shame. The only concern i have about it, will people walk to the station? Until they build a footbridge over the N18, i cant see many people using it.

My fear for Oranmore is that they will make a mess of the station.

• They won't have adequate car parking spaces for the P&R.
• There won't be an integrated connecting bus service for the industrial estates on the East of Galway City.
• Ticketing won't be integrated.

The problem of the station being too far from the town - when the station is built they need to de-zone all land to the South of Oranmore. Absolutely nothing should be built to the South of the town for a couple of decades at least. All development should be focused to the North of the town, close to the station. And yes, a footbridge should definitely be built to encourage people to walk from the existing town.

Same situation for a station in Renmore (if it ever happens) - land in East Galway City away from the station needs to be de-zoned while land near the station should be re-zoned for medium rise development.

The Ceannt Quarter development will see some high rise and many medium rise buildings right beside Ceannt Station. We could actually see good population densities along the railway line if politicians are on the ball when it comes to Oranmore and Renmore.

petronius

I look foward to giving the limerick to galway line a go soon.
very good to see Fr McGreil on tg4 - talking about it I recall talking to him many moons ago in college in maynooth.
My concerns would be additional stations at oranmore, and indeed better connectivity with Shannon Airport, I alway thought they should re-align it to try and make it from shannon town to the airport however a commuter link to limerick may be an optionlinking to the six mile bridge station?

Tech3

petronius wrote: »

I look foward to giving the limerick to galway line a go soon.

I'm looking forward to the reports stating the average amount of passengers per day that are using this service, hopefully the government will see sense and shut this rail service down before any more taxpayers money goes down the drain. I can do 1hr 10mins in a car why would I use the train. Bus Eireann is a little longer for much less the money. I know which option I would choose if I had use public transport!

dowlingm

petronius wrote: »

I alway thought they should re-align it to try and make it from shannon town to the airport however a commuter link to limerick may be an optionlinking to the six mile bridge station?

Given the cost of Dunboyne I'd say you're looking at 200m to acquire the land and lay a 15km Midleton-type alignment with stations at SNN, Shannon Town and Cratloe for transfers, plus adding enough passing capacity between Cratloe and Limerick Station to run a frequent shuttle and 3 x 2700 sets refitted with extra baggage space (2 in service, 1 in maintenance/hot spare). It could operate as a run through to Ennis near Clarecastle which is about another 10-15, but it's hard to see the project cost staying under 300 by that point.

Hard to see IE coming into that kind of cash for that sort of project any time soon.

dowlingm

tech2 wrote: »

I'm looking forward to the reports stating the average amount of passengers per day that are using this service, hopefully the government will see sense and shut this rail service down before any more taxpayers money goes down the drain. I can do 1hr 10mins in a car why would I use the train. Bus Eireann is a little longer for much less the money. I know which option I would choose if I had use public transport!

Now that it's open the best should be made of it. But my suspicion is the best will involve no stops from Gort to Athenry. The important thing is to slam the brakes on any adventures north of Athenry when the Athlone-Galway and Ennis-Limerick sections are crying out for passing track.

KevR

Can any point out on a map where the planned station for Oranmore will be?

There were 2 really ideal locations but of course the County Council didn't see a problem with allowing a business park to be built right beside the railway line at the first location and some sort of a warehouse at the second location (again, right beside the railway line).

Wouldn't have made any difference to the business park or the warehouse to be a couple of hundred metres away from the rail line. Obviously it makes a huge difference for any possible railway station which has to be on the line; and needs to be as near the town as possible but still easily accessible from the M6/N18.

yachtsman

Just short of 2000 pasengers used the WRC yesterday the 8th April. So great are the numbers that most trains now consist of four cars and passengers have had to be left behind on one occason this week. It would be refreshing if the Doomsday Merchants would give the WRC a break and think positively in respect of quality public transport. There are lessons already being learnt by Iarnrod Eireann and many of the teething snags will be addressed very soon, while some innovative initiatives are being considered according to staff. Great credit is due to West On Track or in other words the ordinary Joe and Mary Soaps in the West who fearlessly campaigned against all the odds including some fairly vindictive personal abuse at times.

They insinuated "Use it or Lose it!" Well now we're saying

"We're packin' it.
Stop attackin it.
And for a real jawdroppin' show
Roll on to Tuam and Mayo!"

Carawaystick

yachtsman wrote: »

Just short of 2000 pasengers used the WRC yesterday the 8th April. So great are the numbers that most trains now consist of four cars and passengers have had to be left behind on one occason this week. It would be refreshing if the Doomsday Merchants would give the WRC a break and think positively in respect of quality public transport. There are lessons already being learnt by Iarnrod Eireann and many of the teething snags will be addressed very soon, while some innovative initiatives are being considered according to staff. Great credit is due to West On Track or in other words the ordinary Joe and Mary Soaps in the West who fearlessly campaigned against all the odds including some fairly vindictive personal abuse at times.

Source for the above?

A 4-car commuter train has a capacity of over 500. The 29k cars have a capacity of 48 seating and more than twice that standing. the older commuting carriages have more seats and less standing room but I still can't see people being left behind rather just not getting on the train.


I still find this hard to believe - considering there was 7 passengers On a train last Thursday

How many extra passengers travelled on the Limerick to Ennis section and the Athenry to Galway section, I assume your 2k pax is *only* for the new section between Ennis and Athenry....

dowlingm

yachtsman - if you have access to figures can you break them out? For instance, how is Galway-Athenry and Ennis-Limerick traffic accounted for - on a gross basis including existing Dublin/Athlone and Limerick commuter, or incrementally counting only the boardings on the through services?

carawaystick the 27s have a higher seat count - I think it's 112 per two car set. That means ~220 seated and less standing room on a max length train of 4 cars.

StephenM_smc

There was a piece on Morning Ireland about how great the passenger numbers are on the WRC. Granted it was information from West on Track so I took it with a pinch of salt. Why so much emphasis on figures when the line is barely open two weeks? I'd much prefer to see what the figures are like in 3 or 6 months time.

dermo88

We're packin' it.
Stop attackin it.
And for a real jawdroppin' show
Roll on to Tuam and Mayo!"

I have rarely seen worse country and western style drivel in my life.

My jaw hit the floor reading that.

Its going to take a lot more than fancy poetry to resurrect the line to Tuam and Mayo. I do happen to notice you have only made 9 posts so far, and I will also point out that the detractors of the Athenry to Claremorris branch line have been around on boards.ie for more than 7 years.

The line from Rosslare to Waterford is going to close in order to pay for this line. The line from Ballybrophy to Limerick via Nenagh is in a poor state of repair. The line from Dunboyne to Navan has yet to be built. The Interconnector is not completed. The West is in no position to ask for any more than it has got, considering the fiscal mess, and the sacrifices made elsewhere.

black47

See below. Latest user figures from IE published on WOT website

16,000 Additional Journeys in first month of new Limerick-Galway service

News Release Friday April 30th 2010


Iarnród Éireann has announced that an estimated 16,000 extra journeys have been made in the first month of the new Limerick-Galway rail service.
The Limerick-Galway direct scheduled service was reintroduced after a gap of 34 years on 29th March last, following an investment of euro106.5 million in the reopening of the Ennis to Athenry line.
The first month’s operations have exceeded expectations, with significant demand experienced from day one. The 16,000 passenger journeys recorded are on top of the existing 14,400 monthly journeys on the Limerick-Ennis service, meaning the through route has seen over 30,000 passenger journeys in its first month.
A spokesperson for Iarnród Éireann said “this is a strong and encouraging start for this new service. While the initial interest was a great start, we are now seeing daily demand being sustained. There is little doubt that as summer approaches, new demand – in the form of domestic and overseas tourists – will also see new rail customers taking to the line. It is clear that the support which existed from the community for this line to reopen is translating into passenger demand.”
Issued by:
Corporate Communications,
Iarnród Éireann,
Connolly Station,
Dublin 1.

http://www.westontrack.com/news232.htm


To be fair it does appear that the WRC is actively being used from Limerick to Galway and not just commuters from Ennis.

123easy

I would conservatively estimate that at the very minimum 600,000 car based trips were made up and down the N18 in the same period as the 30,000 newly interested people used the train


role of the opening of M18 Gort to to Crusheen & the Tunnel in the next few months!

Cant wait for the the Gort to Tuam section of motorway to open in 2014

Once the motorway from Galway to Limerick and the tunnel are in place there will be limited use for this rail line until oil gets Very expensive in the future

Jim Martin

black47 wrote: »

See below. Latest user figures from IE published on WOT website

16,000 Additional Journeys in first month of new Limerick-Galway service

News Release Friday April 30th 2010


Iarnród Éireann has announced that an estimated 16,000 extra journeys have been made in the first month of the new Limerick-Galway rail service.
The Limerick-Galway direct scheduled service was reintroduced after a gap of 34 years on 29th March last, following an investment of euro106.5 million in the reopening of the Ennis to Athenry line.
The first month’s operations have exceeded expectations, with significant demand experienced from day one. The 16,000 passenger journeys recorded are on top of the existing 14,400 monthly journeys on the Limerick-Ennis service, meaning the through route has seen over 30,000 passenger journeys in its first month.
A spokesperson for Iarnród Éireann said “this is a strong and encouraging start for this new service. While the initial interest was a great start, we are now seeing daily demand being sustained. There is little doubt that as summer approaches, new demand – in the form of domestic and overseas tourists – will also see new rail customers taking to the line. It is clear that the support which existed from the community for this line to reopen is translating into passenger demand.”
Issued by:
Corporate Communications,
Iarnród Éireann,
Connolly Station,
Dublin 1.

http://www.westontrack.com/news232.htm


To be fair it does appear that the WRC is actively being used from Limerick to Galway and not just commuters from Ennis.

Not if Gort Station is anything to go by, I've only seen 1 or 2 people getting on or off at the most! This is strange for a large town, are people going on the bus or just not travelling at all? Is it the fare structure or the last train from Galway being far too early (17.25)?

dowlingm

black47 wrote: »

To be fair it does appear that the WRC is actively being used from Limerick to Galway and not just commuters from Ennis.

It would have been more honest if they broke the numbers into three - Limerick-Ennis, Ennis-Athenry and Athenry-Galway and added ticket sales per intermediate station.

black47

See link below. The WOT boys must have some major influence in Government.


http://www.westontrack.com/news239.htm

Phase 2 of Western Rail Corridor to Proceed on Time

Thursday June 24th 2010


The West on Track community campaign warmly welcomes the confirmation in Dáil Éireann yesterday by Minister for Transport, Mr. Noel Dempsey TD that the next phase of the Western Rail Corridor is to proceed on time as outlined in Transport 21.
Responding to a question form Labour Party Transport Spokesman, Mr. Tommy Brouhan TD, Minister Dempsey said:
" ...I have laid out my priorities on transport. The two major projects I want to see advanced are the interconnector and the metro, which will take six years to complete rather than the three and a half years we talked about. Money is and will be required for both projects from this year on.
Ironically, the fact that the interconnector and metro will take longer than expected to complete, for environmental and design reasons, will ensure that the next phases of the Western Rail Corridor and the Navan line will proceed on time and perhaps a little ahead of time. It is an ill wind that blows no good."
Full transcript can be found at http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=DAL20100623.xml&Node=H13-2&Page=9
Welcoming the Minister’s comments, a West on Track spokesman said:
“This statement from Minister Dempsey is enormously significant and indicates that there has been no wavering on the part of the Government about continuing the WRC to Tuam and Claremorris. Mr. Dempsey personally has always been a strong supporter of the project and we commend his ongoing commitment to this important development for the whole western region.”
Note: The link to Tuam is scheduled for completion by the end of 2011 and is expected to be well in service in time for the Volvo Ocean Race in 2012, an event of enormous prestige and economic importance not only for the entire western region but for the whole country.

Sponge Bob

Now we know what Dempsey is cutting back in the next budget more like.

Zoney

Yeah, looks like political shenanigans to cut back (not spending on Metro/Interconnector) and allege they are still going ahead on transport investment (by funding WRC/Navan). I don't think it is particularly to do with WOT lobbying, just it is handy for Fianna Fail to do this.

In the current circumstances, regardless of priorities or how much investment is needed, it is probably necessary to cut back, if only because we're pumping vast amounts of borrowed money into banking black holes. Nevertheless, if there is some money available (that they are suggesting will go to WRC/Navan) surely some initial works for Interconnector in particular could be funded (more work on the connected commuter/DART routes?).

If they want to spend on the WRC, why not add the missing bits to WRC phase 1 (Oranmore station, passing loops, double track Athenry-Galway, flood works between Ennis/Limerick) in order to improve Limerick-Galway intercity, Limerick commuter and Galway commuter?

corktina

Zoney wrote: »

Yeah, looks like political shenanigans to cut back (not spending on Metro/Interconnector) and allege they are still going ahead on transport investment (by funding WRC/Navan). I don't think it is particularly to do with WOT lobbying, just it is handy for Fianna Fail to do this.

In the current circumstances, regardless of priorities or how much investment is needed, it is probably necessary to cut back, if only because we're pumping vast amounts of borrowed money into banking black holes. Nevertheless, if there is some money available (that they are suggesting will go to WRC/Navan) surely some initial works for Interconnector in particular could be funded (more work on the connected commuter/DART routes?).

If they want to spend on the WRC, why not add the missing bits to WRC phase 1 (Oranmore station, passing loops, double track Athenry-Galway, flood works between Ennis/Limerick) in order to improve Limerick-Galway intercity, Limerick commuter and Galway commuter?

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