.22lr Pistol Choice

bunny shooter

Having done a bit of research I reckon this is the pistol I want :eek:

Any thoughts from those in the know ?

rrpc

bunny shooter wrote: »

Having done a bit of research I reckon this is the pistol I want :eek:

Any thoughts from those in the know ?

They're very good, eat absolutely everything without a hiccup and spit out empties as if they're bullets

They are very nose heavy and not everyone likes them, but if you want a road test drop me a pm and I'm pretty sure I can arrange it.

bunny shooter

:cool:

Will get back to you about a "road-test"

Thanks

bunny shooter

What type of competitions does this qualify for and are these being run here ?

If they are what the rules and practices fired etc ?

My civilian pistol shooting days might not be over yet :cool:

rrpc

bunny shooter wrote: »

What type of competitions does this qualify for and are these being run here ?

If they are what the rules and practices fired etc ?

My civilian pistol shooting days might not be over yet :cool:

Lots

NASRPC have a couple of competitions for 22lr including benchrest and a timed and precision match. Then there's the ISSF standard pistol match which is a reducing time match with 4x5 shots at 150 seconds a series then 4x5 at 20 seconds a series and 4x5 at 10 seconds a series.

There's also ISSF 25m pistol which is normally shot by women with 22 and men with the 32 but we've only run the 22 version as there's no range equipped to handle the centre fire yet. It's 30 shots on the precision target in 30 minutes and 30 on the rapid fire target in 3 second exposures.

bunny shooter

Does being a member of MNSCI allow me to enter all these comps ?

rrpc

bunny shooter wrote: »

Does being a member of MNSCI allow me to enter all these comps ?

They're mostly club competitions so there's no membership requirement, it's only at national level that membership is required. MNSCI are NTSA members, so that end of things would be fine, you just have to sign up for individual NTSA membership for a small fee.

Rathdrum's AGM is today so we'll have our calendar finalised and published this evening probably. We had about a dozen pistol competitions last year so I'd say if anything there'll be more.

More clubs are looking to run these competitions so you can expect to see a few run in Midlands as well; b52 is the pistol coordinator and said he was going to try and get the turning targets there reprogrammed.

Edit: There's a standard pistol match in Rathdrum on the 21st February and a benchrest pistol match next Saturday.

bunny shooter

Excellent stuff.

I won't make next Saturday due to work and too little notice now to get it off

Will see can I make the one in February though

rrpc wrote: »

...........you just have to sign up for individual NTSA membership for a small fee......

Info on this on NTSA site ?

rrpc

bunny shooter wrote: »

Excellent stuff.

I won't make next Saturday due to work and too little notice now to get it off

Will see can I make the one in February though

You can do a bit of training between now and then without a pistol. Shooting one handed can be tough as you've a 1+ kilo pistol at the end of your arm for up to twenty seconds (doesn't sound much until you try it ). You can use one of those wrist weights and practice raise, hold and lower in reps to get the muscles working. The other thing to know is that locking your wrist is not a normal motor function and can't be done consciously, you have to push your closed fist against a solid object in order for it to happen. The reason I say this is that some of the target pistols have very finely tuned recoil springs (the Pardini being one of them) which will stovepipe if you let your wrist go slack at all.

Info on this on NTSA site ?

Not yet, there was supposed to be a meeting to finalise all this but the weather put it off. Should be sorted in the next week or so.

bunny shooter

rrpc wrote: »

...............Not yet, there was supposed to be a meeting to finalise all this but the weather put it off. Should be sorted in the next week or so.

Had a browse and couldn't find it. Thought it was me

Can you let me know when this is sorted ?

Now to find some weights .........................................

sfakiaman

Nice looking pistol but did you check out the GSP rifle conversion kit. It would be the business for .22 gallery rifle. Must start saving!

It wasn't me!

Funny thing about that GSP is the vigour with which is ejects brass. You'd swear the bloody thing was pissed off! I saw dents in the partitions separating the firing points in Rathdrum from fat tony's ejecting brass. Never shot one myself, however, so can't comment on feel. Good luck with the decision though, bunny!

bunny shooter

sfakiaman wrote: »

Nice looking pistol but did you check out the GSP rifle conversion kit. It would be the business for .22 gallery rifle. Must start saving!

No but am I'm off to check it now

rrpc

bunny shooter wrote: »

No but am I'm off to check it now

And unlike the Buckmark conversion it's not restricted. :cool:

But tbh, it's not really any cheaper than buying a seperate semi. You can also get a conversion to .32 wadcutter as well.

As for ejecting brass, it's violent! The brass hits the right hand partition, then the left and then hits the shooter to your right :eek:

oldzed

The gsp rifle is far from ideal for gallery, for one with the rifle stock on , it covers the hold open lever so the bolt cannot be locked back , and you need to have the bolt locked back when changing positions, it might be possible to drill and butcher the stock to get it but im not sure, secondly the stock is completely set up for right handed shooting , its nigh on impossible to shoot it left handed , again it may be possible to butcher it to make it more left friendly but I havent seen it done yet, thirdly gsp 10 rd mags are approx 70 - 80 sterling a pop and you will need a minimum of 4 but realistically 6 and if you are serious you will have one training set and one competition set. Its a fine rifle , very accurate and has a lovely trigger but I have never seen one used on the gallery circuit either here or in the uk . im not saying it could not be used but I think people will be slow to start hacking at a 500 pound stock to adapt it .there are much easier and cheaper options to shoot gallery without the modification or cost involved in altering a gsp.

dCorbus

Sorry for hijacking your thread, bunnyshooter - please forgive my impertinence:rolleyes:

I've a kinda related question which I thought would be best suited to this existing thread:

To all those .22lr ISSF (i.e. NTSA) and NASPRC pistol shooters out there (you know who you are!:)), the following question:

I'm hoping / planning / saving to take part in pistol target shooting covered by both organisations / disciplines. Now, I don't have a shed-load of cash (and much of it has already been allocated toward the purchase of my ongoing and future f/tr and target rifle needs:eek:), but I would be interested in getting a decent starter-to-intermediate-level pistol which would get me started and carry me along for the first stages of my glorious pistol shooting career:rolleyes: in as many disciplines as possible. (The more competitions and shoots the better I say!)

So, in my ignorance, I have taken a look at the Glorious Golden List issued by his royal highness, Herr F. von Murphy:rolleyes::rolleyes:, and wittled my choices down to the following unrestricted .22lr pistols (in no particular order):

- Browning Buckmark
- Beretta 87
- S&W Model 22A (7" Barrel)
- S&W Model 41 (7" Barrel)
- Ruger Mk III
- Hammerli X-esse Target

Bearing in mind the following: budget, skill-level, accessibility, and maximum competition suitability - Please rate the above 6 pistols in order of preference. Thanks. (Actually, jeez, that sounds like some kind of weird Leaving Cert question!:D - You know what I mean, all and any advice welcome and required!)

Thanks

dC

bunny shooter

Hijack away

Sparks

You missed one dC - air pistols. RRPC will tell you, if you're looking to start and learn, they're the best route. Learn to put the pellet in the middle with the air pistol, and then moving to .22lr you only have to learn a few additional things (recoil, rapid fire, etc) instead of everything at once.

Plus, €250 for the pistol and €12 per 500 pellets for top-of-the-line ammo...

Bananaman

As far as I am aware there is a maximum 5" barrell allowed for ISSF Free Pistol

If you intend to take part in that aswell as all the NASRPC smallbore disciplines (with the same firearm) then you need something witha 5" barrell.

Most lads shooting just NASRPC have 7" barrells - 22a would be most popular, followed by Hammerlis, Rugers, Brownings and Pardinis.

But the 22a and the Xsesse probably take equal numbers of medals and account for 75% of them between them.

(Personally I like the buckmark - but I like being different)

B'Man

Sparks

It's just over 6" B'man - 153mm to be exact. The full rules are:

Cass

Just to ask a question while ye are all on the .22 pistol frame of mind. Was offered one of these at somewhat reasonable money. Want your opinon on;
A) Is it good enough for a first time .22 pistol,
What kind of price should i be paying.


Manurhin MR 38 in .22lr, 6 shot.

Bananaman

I though the Na'vi only used bows

B'Man

Cass

Come again.

No experience with .22 pistols so looking for opinons. Was in a shop and this was in stock. They normally don't do pistols.

Bananaman

Ezri.

Na'Vi are the aliens in 'Dances with Smurfs' a.k.a. Avatar

I have no knowledge of the firearm - never heard of, seen one or more importantly fired one before but I am sure there will be someone along who will have an opinion.

B'Man

Cass

Bananaman wrote: »

Ezri.

Na'Vi are the aliens in 'Dances with Smurfs' a.k.a. Avatar

Try this thread so - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055655055

Grizzly 45

Bananaman wrote: »

Ezri.

Na'Vi are the aliens in 'Dances with Smurfs' a.k.a. Avatar

ROTFLMAO Thanks!!I've just spewed coffee all over my screen,and keyboard..Brilliant:D:D:D:D:D

I have no knowledge of the firearm - never heard of, seen one or more importantly fired one before but I am sure there will be someone along who will have an opinion.

Manhurin are French,all their big cal stuff was/is handmade,so it is pretty expensive or was, and very accurate.Oddly the French anti terror police still use them in 357 magnum.Must be the only police anti terror unit that does still use revolvers.Apart from our lot of course.
If it is in good shape and hasnt been used as a hammer ,you couldnt go too wrong.

Cass

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

........Manhurin are French,all their big cal stuff was/is handmade,so it is pretty expensive or was, and very accurate.Oddly the French anti terror police still use them in 357 magnum........

I was talking to a lad and we got talking about sports target shooting. He then showed me his MR 38. He told me they are normally in .357 (as you said) but he had it in .22 cal. I just asked, in a messing sort of way, how much and he said he is not advertising it for sale but if he got the right price he would let it go. Now i never considered .22 but the price is not huge, it has the Olympic style grip but can be used both handed or dedicated right handed. It got me thinking is all.

If it is in good shape and hasnt been used as a hammer ,you couldnt go too wrong.

It is in excellent condition and appears very well maintained. Thanks for the info.

Greenacre

22A Reasonably priced, reliable, very accurate, popular and you can get a 5 1/2 inch barrel

Go on, you know you want to!

shanmoll308

Hi Bud, may be wrong now but I think 6 shot = Restricted

Cass

shanmoll308 wrote: »

Hi Bud, may be wrong now but I think 6 shot = Restricted

You are correct sir. In order to get it as a newly licensed pistol it would need to have a cylinder blocked. As said though its only a passing thought. Will stick to the C/F for the time being.

dCorbus

nice hijack of a hijack, ez!;):D:D:D

dCorbus

Thanks sparks

You missed one

Nope, I missed more than one. Quite a few missed. But that wasnee my question!;):D

The "reason" I've ruled out airpistols is quite simply the limitations on where and when they can be used. Or am I mistaken on this?

Another reason is, and I take your very valid point that it's a cost effective way of training,.....the ol' budget is a tad constrained at the mo' and will be for the foreseeable future, so I wanted to purchase one pistol that would adequately and satisfactorily "do the job" for as long as possible and in as many possible disciplines.

That's why I'd narrowed it down to the list above.

Where's rrpc when you need him!?:rolleyes::D

22A Reasonably priced, reliable, very accurate, popular and you can get a 5 1/2 inch barrel

Go on, you know you want to

Oh I do, I so do!:D

Looks like the S&W 22A is topping the bill so far.
Have seen one on frankonia recently for a very nice tidy sum - What should one expect to pay? And is there a market for second-hand 22lr pistols? Anyone point me in the right direction on that? PM me if you want.

'Dances with Smurfs'

PMSL:D:D:D

xesse

i have shot all the pistols on your list and yes the 22a with a 7 inch barrel is the best of a bad lot
it wouldnt be in the running at all with the 5inch barrel
the hammerli is the best by far in my opinion
i shoot a pardini sp now and is the best rimfire pistol money can buy i think
but it is pricey aprox. 1500 euro

dCorbus wrote: »

Thanks sparks





Nope, I missed more than one. Quite a few missed. But that wasnee my question!;):D

The "reason" I've ruled out airpistols is quite simply the limitations on where and when they can be used. Or am I mistaken on this?

Another reason is, and I take your very valid point that it's a cost effective way of training,.....the ol' budget is a tad constrained at the mo' and will be for the foreseeable future, so I wanted to purchase one pistol that would adequately and satisfactorily "do the job" for as long as possible and in as many possible disciplines.

That's why I'd narrowed it down to the list above.

Where's rrpc when you need him!?:rolleyes::D



Oh I do, I so do!:D

Looks like the S&W 22A is topping the bill so far.
Have seen one on frankonia recently for a very nice tidy sum - What should one expect to pay? And is there a market for second-hand 22lr pistols? Anyone point me in the right direction on that? PM me if you want.



PMSL:D:D:D

Cass

dCorbus wrote: »

nice hijack of a hijack, ez!;):D:D:D

All is fair...............etc, etc.:D

dCorbus

thanks xesse

i shoot a pardini sp now and is the best rimfire pistol money can buy i think
but it is pricey aprox. 1500 euro

Have recently observed closely the quality of the pardini sp myself;)
You are correct, sir - IMHO this shoots fantastically!
But.......the funds just aren't there for me to stretch to a pardini, walther, or one of them lovely lovely mucho-accurate pistols.
Apart the simple fact that my own shooting skills would never do them the justice they'd deserve!:)

Slightly confused though:

the 22a with a 7 inch barrel is the best of a bad lot

but then you write:

the hammerli is the best by far in my opinion

Am I misreading your post?

So, the leader-board so far as I'm understanding all the input is:

1. Pardini SP (and the like, walther gsp, etc) - But outside my budget so not on my options list

2. S&W 22A with 7in Barrel (But not allowed in ISSF pistol comps)
3. Hammerli X-esse Target
4. S&W 22A with 5in Barrel (But may not be up to much!)

The others are then following in the pack:
- Browning Buckmark
- Beretta 87
- S&W Model 41 (7" Barrel)
- Ruger Mk III

So, if there was just one 22 target pistol a beginner / novice with:
a) a severely limited budget,
b) a requirement for ISSF-style competitions,
c) a requirement for NASRPC-style competitions,
d) one pistol only,
e) once-off purchase (i.e. no buying new pistol every year as one improves)
Which of the "un-restricted" 22 pistols would it be?

xesse

sorry
what i meant was
the hammerli is the best value and a good accurate pistol
it can be used for plinking on the range,ISSF style shooting and NASRPC events in rimfire pistol
22a with a 7" barrel can only do 2 out of the 3 above
22a with 5"barrel wouldn,t be as accurate as the xesse

Sparks

Given the budget restrictions, have you considered the Izh-35 at all? It doesn't seem to be on your list, but it's a classic recommendation for a beginner's entry-level target pistol when shooting ISSF stuff is on the list of requirements.

dCorbus

thanks xesse - all is clear now.:)

thanks sparks - Hadn't noticed the Baikal IZH35 before. Looked it up on the old interweb and looks like a handy bit of kit with some good / great recommendations. Can't seem to find anyone selling this model though - Any idea what sort of price range the IZH35 would / should go for?

xesse has summed up my requirements very succinctly: "used for plinking on the range, ISSF style shooting and NASRPC events in rimfire pistol".

Would the baikal cover all these bases?

intershoot

Sparks wrote: »

Given the budget restrictions, have you considered the Izh-35 at all? It doesn't seem to be on your list, but it's a classic recommendation for a beginner's entry-level target pistol when shooting ISSF stuff is on the list of requirements.

The Baikal IZH-35 is almost impossible to get as the UK distributers do not want to bring in pistols at all, and they would have to bring in about 20 at a time to justify the cost.

Second hand items are available in Germany, and they would be in the region of €300, but without a supply of new guns my concern would be regarding back-up and parts!

My advice would be to stick with the European stuff!

dCorbus

Thanks lads for all the advice to date:D

I think that the Hammerli Xesse Target is well in the lead right now - Seems to cover all my bases. Hopefully will see some in action at the w/end;) and will make my decision then (that's of course unless I change my mind again in the meantime). Then time for me to start saving and seeking!

(Then again, if anyone would like to part with a pardini sp for say in and around €400 - €500 I'd be delighted to facilitate such a favourable transfer of ownership):D:D:rolleyes:

rrpc

Rather than go down the route of telling you which pistol to buy, I'd suggest that you pop around a few competitions first and check out what's being used at present. They're a very personal choice and what works for one person mightn't necessarily work for you. In fact I'd go as far as to say that the one you'd pick from a list would be the wrong one 9 times out of 10 :eek:.

Although you've dismissed the idea of an air pistol, I don't think you should. In fact, I believe that if you want to get good value, plenty of training time and low running costs, the air pistol is the only way to go.

There are actually plenty of ranges and plenty of competitions. Midlands were talking of setting up a small 10m range in the near future unless they've changed their minds in the interim. Other ranges are: Fermoy, DRC (I think), Rathdrum, UCD and Wilkinstown.

There may well be more in the pipeline as they're very cheap to set up and run: targets cost buttons.

You will learn just about everything about pistol shooting (except recoil - which is the last thing you need to learn IMO) and do it for a fraction of the cost of even a .22. What's more you can practice in the comfort of your own home as most of the air pistols (even the dreaded IZH46) have a dry firing mechanism to enable you to get all the basics right without all that messy travelling to the range on a cold winter's night.

And it doesn't rule out getting a .22 pistol later and carrying your learning curve to the next level - dealing with recoil.

Bananaman

rrpc wrote: »

Although you've dismissed the idea of an air pistol, I don't think you should.

In fairness I don't think he has dismissed it - he has outlined the types of events he is interested in and that defines the firearm he requires - this is not simply a matter of personal choice but a matter of legislative requirement.

If he wanted to take part in Air Pistol Competitions then he would require an Air Pistol and would therefore be allowed to license one, should he meet the other requirements (he already has other firearms so we will assume so for the sake of clarity)

If he wanted to take part in Centrefire Pistol Competitions then he would require a centrefire pistol - unfortunately due the discriminatory nature of the legislation he is not able to do this at the moment.

He has said he wants to take part is 'ISSF-style' and 'NASRPC-style' smallbore events. To do this he requires a 22lr pistol capable of holding 5 cartridges with a barrel length as outlined by sparks.

From a legislative perspective he requires an un-restricted short firearm of .22 calibre to do this.

For that reasons he should be able to seek a license for one.

The specific firearm waffle in the legislation means that people must be crystal clear about what is and is not required to take part in certain sports and in that context an Air Pistol is not a suitable alternative to a .22 Pistol.

My .2c

B'Man

rrpc

I did read his post B'man and especially the bit where he said 'beginner/novice'.

IMO, and it is just an opinion mind, the best pistol for a beginner is an air pistol for all the reasons I outlined. I strongly believe that pistol shooting should be a progression up to the point where it goes 'bang' and jumps a bit and there's an awful lot to learn before you get to that point.

By the time he's done all that, he should be in a position both financially and developmentally to buy a .22 and by then should also know exactly what he needs.

rrpc

Bananaman wrote: »

The specific firearm waffle in the legislation means that people must be crystal clear about what is and is not required to take part in certain sports and in that context an Air Pistol is not a suitable alternative to a .22 Pistol.

My .2c

B'Man

If you're a member of an authorised club that has club firearms you can also use them quite lawfully. In fact you can use another member's firearm if they are willing and it's in an authorised club and the firearm is unrestricted.

rrpc

Just a propos of this thread and training for pistol shooting. One of the lads back from Intershoot in Holland was talking to me the other night about some guys using the Wii balance board for pistol training.

I didn't get any details (yet), but it's an interesting use of new technology. Will post details when I have them.