Devil blamed for Haitian disaster.

wolfsbane

Comer1 said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfsbane
A dysfunctional world is the consequence of Adam's sin, Yes. We are familiar with the concept in human affairs - the drug abuser who gives birth to an addicted baby, for example.


Yes, we are all born just as guilty as the next person. But it is not individual guilt that determines which child dies and which not. All are exposed to a dysfunctional world but it is God who permits (or not) disaster to come any individual's way.
But you can't tell me why he lets disaster fall on some and not others when we all just as "guilty"

As I said, in those cases it is not a matter of judgement, so their guilt is not the cause. It is just a consequence of other's sin (Adam's in this case).

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfsbane
He is God and would be just to condemn us all immediately. But He spares many of us so that we will be brought to repentance and faith. Others He permits to continue in their evil throughout a long life - not that He favours them in doing so, for they only add to their crimes and the consequent punishment in hell. He is the Creator and is entitled to dispose of His creation as He sees fit.
That's what he does, but it makes no sense that he lets some off and punishes others. To say it's His creation and he can dow what he wants is a cop-out. I'm asking how does it make sense to that he chooses some to suffer and others not to. My answer is that it just simply doesn't make sense.

But He doesn't let them off. All sin will be paid for in eternity. Many suffer for their sins in this life as a means of leading them to repentance. Others He lets go on their sinful way and face the consequences in eternity.

All are guilty, so God is not obliged to any, but He is sovereign and can show mercy to whom He will and harden whom He will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfsbane
He doesn't say, but He does say that He never gives us more than we can handle. He gives necessary grace to bear each affliction.
My blood is boiling again . How can you believe in a God that will take my child and not my neighbours, not because I am any worse a person, or because I love my child less than my neighbour loves his, but simply because I could bear it better than my neighbour.

That would not be the only or even main purpose in God doing so. Your suffering may be to lead you to repentance; or to make you more dependent on God if you already are His child. Unbelievers live with a deaf ear to God, and suffering may be used to get their attention. Believers live with not-yet-perfect natures, and discipline or trial helps them draw closer to God/be kept from great sin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfsbane
I could show you that my picture of God is the one given in Scripture, but let me first ask you if the alternative is any more palatable to you:
God is not in control, bad things happen because He is unable to intervene. We are at the mercy of nature and our fellow-man. When they decide we suffer, we do - unless we are stronger than they. No point praying to God about it.

Is that a happier picture?

As to why evil things happen, the answer is not that God is unloving. Rather it is that we are sinners in a fallen world. Consequences flow from Adam's sin and indeed from ours - not only to us but to our society and following generations.
It makes so much more sense that there is no God and S**t just happens.

That is because your concept of God arise from a rebel heart. At least you see that no god you can construct matches the standards you have - evil happens, so there cannot be a loving God.

But if you factor in a sinful world, and a just and loving God, then it does make sense.

the iceman come

Anyone notice that A certain Nicolas Sarkozy has also weighed in on this topic? I can not find the link but I read that he also believes that Haiti is cursed!

PDN

the iceman come wrote: »

Anyone notice that A certain Nicolas Sarkozy has also weighed in on this topic? I can not find the link but I read that he also believes that Haiti is cursed!

He's just sore because the Haitians gave the French a good kicking to get independence. The French hold grudges against everyone who has defeated them in battle (that means just about every other country in the world).

postcynical

PDN wrote: »

He's just sore because the Haitians gave the French a good kicking to get independence. The French hold grudges against everyone who has defeated them in battle (that means just about every other country in the world).

It still works:) Try and google 'French military victories' and hit the 'I'm feeling lucky' button.

Poor Haitians. Poor world that such idiots exist as were quoted in this thread.

Fanny Cradock

Monosharp's response to Wolfsbane on morality moved to the more relevant thread here.

PDN

We already have a thread running which discusses morality, and its possible sources http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055794509

Wolfsbane and Sam Vimes, please take any further discussion on that subject over there. Myself and Fanny Cradock have done you the courtesy of moving existing posts over there, but any further discussion of that topic in this thread will be deleted.

Thanks for helping us to keep the forum tidy.