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Decent offer refused

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    #32
    west101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 86 ✭✭west101


    smccarrick wrote: »
    Once interest rates start to rise later this year (increasingly probable- as EU inflation rates are increasing month on month)- the Irish and Spanish property sectors are going to take another nose dive.

    Buyers are not going to get mortgages that they imagine they are entitled to- and sellers are going to have to readjust their expectations to meet changed circumstances.

    The period from 1994 to 2007 was an anamoly- that is highly unlikely to ever be repeated again. If people do not accept this- they are going to be incredibly disappointed.

    Tevion- the current offer you put in was/is a reasonable offer. If the seller does not accept this- that is also entirely his/her perogative. If he/she decides that unless they get a particular magic number they are going to stay put- then, most likely they are going to stay put. It is their right to turn down any offer whatsoever without explanation- similarly, it is your right to walk if you're unhappy. The boot may be on the other foot for buyers now, conditions having favoured sellers for a long period of time- however the simple laws of negotiation still exist.

    Interest rates are going to rise- and our unemployment rate is forecast to rise another 3% in 2010 before stabilising around 15%.

    A healthy dose of reality has to be accepted by all concerned.

    Agree with you there intrest rates will rise this year creating huge problems. Although the property bubble was not an anomoly, it was only the first time it happened in Ireland. Its a good bet that in 50 years or so when all the lessons have been forgotten and NAMA is long gone (hopefully) it will all happen again.


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    #33
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    west101 wrote: »
    Agree with you there intrest rates will rise this year creating huge problems. Although the property bubble was not an anomoly, it was only the first time it happened in Ireland. Its a good bet that in 50 years or so when all the lessons have been forgotten and NAMA is long gone (hopefully) it will all happen again.

    Its not the first time it happened in Ireland though- I don't know if you're old enough to remember the bubble in land prices in the 1970s here?

    It doesn't tend to repeat in the same sectors- but it does tend to repeat.

    How do you reckon that the property price bubble was not/is not an anamoly? Its part of human nature- going back historically you can remember a lot of booms and busts- all the way back to the infamous Dutch tulip boom and bust.


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    #34
    daltonr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭daltonr


    Taltos wrote: »
    Personally I would now contact the EA and tell them the offer is off the table.
    Tell them that you may be open to reconsidering the offer at a later date - and at that time I would go in with 10k less than you just went in at.

    I understand the urge to go down this road, but I'd advise against it. I wouldn't always have advised against it, but hear me out.

    This notion of ringing the EA to tell them your bid is off the table, is a bit like calling that girl you broke up with months ago to tell her you never really liked her anyway. It's getting emotion involved, and it's a bit childish.

    It's an attitude of...I'll show them for not taking my offer. I'll show 'em they can't push me around. My offer is off the table...so there....Now you're screwed.

    The reality is the EA couldn't give a toss and if you call him up in a months time is unlikely to even remember you.
    Taltos wrote: »
    This will do 2 things.
    1 establish your credibility with the EA - next time you place an offer on another property they will be able to tell the seller - this is the max - reject it and the next offer will be less

    2 keeps you in control...


    I dunno.

    A credible buyer makes it clear UP FRONT when an offer is the full and final offer. They don't need to go calling up EA's after offers have been refused to withdraw the offer.

    "You can't break up with me, I already broke up with you!"

    As for keeping you in control....

    Calling up after an offer has been refused is just the sign an EA needs to know that the Buyer has a thing for this house.

    Move on, find a different house. By all means when an offer is refused let the EA know that if a similar house comes on the market at a more reasonable price that he/she should give you a call.

    Cordial, professional etc. That's the way to go.

    -Rd


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    #35
    mathie
    Registered Users Posts: 5,099 ✭✭✭mathie


    So I went to view a couple of houses last night.
    The estate agent came out with some classics

    - House prices in the area are dropping 10K a month.
    - One house had an offer of 500K 6 months ago, the valuer came and said it was worth 460K and the poptential purchasers were very annoyed. Not annoyed at themselves or the sellers. No. Annoyed at the bank for not valuing it at what they felt it was 'worth'.
    - The EA said in Sept 2006 the phones stopped ringing and that he spent 2007 trying to convince people the game wasn't up when he knew it was.
    - The EA spoke of there being very little supply in the area (I didn't bring up the 300K empties). Then he mentioned one estate where they'd normally have 20 houses for sale at a time, they've only three at the moment. A couple splitting up, an investor and a 'guy who got himself into trouble'.
    - He said 'if people don't have to sell then they won't'. They will 'wait it out'.

    I didn't want to get into an argument with him.


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    #36
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    mathie wrote: »
    'if people don't have to sell then they won't'. They will 'wait it out'.

    :) I wonder do they bargain on waiting for 25-30 years.....:)


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    #37
    mathie
    Registered Users Posts: 5,099 ✭✭✭mathie


    smccarrick wrote: »
    :) I wonder do they bargain on waiting for 25-30 years.....:)


    :)

    He also said that the house that was valued at 470K had subsequently got an offer of 470K but they turned that down.
    Some classic logic there!


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    #38
    lion_bar
    Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭lion_bar


    smccarrick wrote: »
    :) I wonder do they bargain on waiting for 25-30 years.....:)


    Why wouldn't they wait?

    If you don't have to sell why would you sell in a falling market?


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    #39
    mathie
    Registered Users Posts: 5,099 ✭✭✭mathie


    lion_bar wrote: »
    Why wouldn't they wait?

    If you don't have to sell why would you sell in a falling market?

    True.
    So the question is who will sell in a falling market?
    Executor sales, investors with cold feet, reposessed homes, couple who split etc, etc...


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    #40
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,145 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Pushtrak wrote: »
    Could ye go up another 10? If so, say that and final offer.

    Trigger is that you ?
    Thanos wrote: »
    If you are not in a hurry, then just leave the offer there and keep looking around. They may get back to you after a few days........
    If after that you do not see anything you like better try offering 5k more and say you need an answer within 2 or 3 days.

    Oh dear God no.
    It is buyers market, the buyer isn't pushed about buying, so he has the ball and can go home with it if he wants leaving the seller to play with themselves.
    smccarrick wrote: »
    Once interest rates start to rise later this year (increasingly probable- as EU inflation rates are increasing month on month)- the Irish and Spanish property sectors are going to take another nose dive.

    Buyers are not going to get mortgages that they imagine they are entitled to- and sellers are going to have to readjust their expectations to meet changed circumstances.

    The period from 1994 to 2007 was an anamoly- that is highly unlikely to ever be repeated again. If people do not accept this- they are going to be incredibly disappointed.
    ...
    Interest rates are going to rise- and our unemployment rate is forecast to rise another 3% in 2010 before stabilising around 15%.

    A healthy dose of reality has to be accepted by all concerned.

    Once again smccarrick speaks nothing but common sense and thus shines a very bright light on the big elephant hiding in the corner i.e. ECB interest rate hikes.
    smccarrick wrote: »
    Its not the first time it happened in Ireland though- I don't know if you're old enough to remember the bubble in land prices in the 1970s here?

    It doesn't tend to repeat in the same sectors- but it does tend to repeat.

    How do you reckon that the property price bubble was not/is not an anamoly? Its part of human nature- going back historically you can remember a lot of booms and busts- all the way back to the infamous Dutch tulip boom and bust.

    Land prices adjusted for inflation and rise in living standards were higher circa 1979 than in 2007.
    All due to EEC and agriculture booming mid to late 70s.
    The fallout from the debts carried by some farmers lasted for years and had huge bearing on rural Ireland in 80s.
    mathie wrote: »
    True.
    So the question is who will sell in a falling market?
    Executor sales, investors with cold feet, reposessed homes, couple who split etc, etc...

    I bet there are fair few investors hanging on with interest only mortgages that may have interest only terms expiring.
    I know some banks are forcing them to go to normal mortgage with capital repayments.
    The investors can't afford it so have to sell.

    Also sooner or later the rent allowance scheme will take a hit and the artifical floor on rents will come tumbling down, that will send many investors to the wall.

    Looking at some property sales (especially rural ones) in the last year, lots of properties appear to be older, in poorer condition and thus looking like executor sales.
    These will continue as it could end up costing more to keep them and families members will all want their cut.


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    #41
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,821 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    why would you sell in a falling market? well unless you own a time machine and can go back 2 years, prices are only going to get lower still over the next year or so and they're probably not going to bounce back in any major way. On that basis, if you think you're going to want to sell in the next few years, now is the time to do it. That's why I can't understand people saying they're going to wait it out - for what exactly? The return of the celtic tiger?


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    #42
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    tevion wrote: »
    My fiancee made what I thought was quite a reasonable offer for a property in the Beaumount area.
    The asking price is 325K and she offered 280K.
    The EA told us the seller refused, although there is isnt any other bids on the property currently.
    Apparantly the seller wants to get close to the asking price, which I think in the current climate wont happen, and the EA are recommending to consider anything around 300K.
    Either way, her bid remains the same, while she is still hunting, but you would imagine the seller would take hand and all, given what is happening these days!

    in your opinion its a decent offer that doesnt make it so.


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