Sales pitch or what?

Odysseus

I just had phone watch installed today. The guy was telling me I should have my gun safe alarmed. I have two guns [hopefully a third soon], I informed him that I did not and he was telling that they where told to tell people that any gun safe should be alarmed. I like the idea but my budget won't allow me to get anything extra than I have at the moment. So what do you lads think, just a sales pitch?

IRLConor

Probably just a sales pitch, "should be" is not the same as "must be".

I wouldn't worry about it unless I was hearing from your Superintendent. If you're still unsure, ask the Gardai.

Sparks

Sounds like just a sales pitch to me since the security requirements are in an SI and the IFA would go ballistic if they got changed so that every firearm needed an alarmed safe.

Odysseus

Cheers lads, no I happy enough with my secuirty well as much as my budget will allow. The thing was he was saying that they where told to state they where told by the Garda. However, I think it was just a case of trying to get a extra bit of cash out of me. As I said I like the idea, but I work for the HSE my wages take another hit tomorrow as it a case of doing the best I can with what I have. At this point I'm not required to even have a house alarm, as I currently have a O/U and a .22 air-rifle, when I got the O/U I decided to get the alarm off my own back as the thoughts of it ending up in the wrong hands would kill me.

Cass

Odysseus wrote: »

...... The guy was telling me I should have my gun safe alarmed. ........ I informed him that I did not and he was telling that they where told to tell people that any gun safe should be alarmed. .... So what do you lads think, just a sales pitch?

If i'm not mistaken, there was a debate on here a while ago about the wording of the SI. Something about the room/area where the firearms are to be stored being alarmed. Some where saying if the room or the cabinet was alarmed that sufficed, but if you have the entire house covered i don't see how you could be anymore secure.

If only the safe or room was alarmed someone could gain access to your house and work away quitely until they disturbed the room/safe. If the house is alarmed they cannot gain access without alerting someone.

I would agree with the other lads and say its a sales pitch to squeeze a little more out of you. The phone watch is plenty.

Bananaman

Your CPO and Super will decide if you need more.

B'Man

knockon

Odysseus wrote: »

I just had phone watch installed today. The guy was telling me I should have my gun safe alarmed. I have two guns [hopefully a third soon], I informed him that I did not and he was telling that they where told to tell people that any gun safe should be alarmed. I like the idea but my budget won't allow me to get anything extra than I have at the moment. So what do you lads think, just a sales pitch?

I have the same system. The installation engineer is incorrect. You can of course have this addition added on but it is NOT required and besides it has absoultely F$$k all to do with Phonewatch.

You would be well advised however to spend the extra money on a Radio Link also supplied by Phonewatch that works even if the phone lines are down. Costs about €350 but well worth it.

dwighet

I had my safe alarmed as well as the house....If the house alarm is off the safe is still on and monitored...For the extra 50 quid a few years back I thought it was a good idea....
I know Myself that i`ve had to leave the house in a hurry and forgot to set the alarm for the house(it happens) but knowing when I realise that the safe is still switched on.....

sharky0922

knockon wrote: »

I have the same system. The installation engineer is incorrect. You can of course have this addition added on but it is NOT required and besides it has absoultely F$$k all to do with Phonewatch.

You would be well advised however to spend the extra money on a Radio Link also supplied by Phonewatch that works even if the phone lines are down. Costs about €350 but well worth it.

heh.. don;t understand why you guys go with this system , since they do nothing? they just call and thats it..
i if alarm is activated then they call you to check is that real alarm, and if so the will call gardai? wont send security guys? or i;m missing something?
so is it really necessary to pay for 2 phone calls ?
i understand its required by law when you hold 3 or more guns to have alarm
but you really have to buy this kind of "protection" ? or you can make something by your own which is the same(or better)?!

i mounted alarm by myself, and its doing same stuff.
if alarms is activated its calling and sending text which telling me which sensor was activated. i can check status anytime, can block it anytime , activated one sensor or other. if would want i could program it to switch on lights/other equipment by text , or on time. theres no limitation!
so its doing same thing/more!


somebody made this law to make more money of people :rolleyes:

bunny shooter

I've same setup on my system (Phonewatch).

As Dwight says it's a good setup and only costs the extra sensor which I think is currently around €80 ? My system cost me €1200 a good few years ago and the cost of the extra sensor in the scheme of things wasn't much :cool:

The radio link is a good option too and I think the system can work independently with this so you don't need a phone line

sharky0922 wrote: »

......somebody made this law to make more money of people :rolleyes:

Probably more to do with making it more expensive to get a firearm as they started insisting pistol applicants had such a system before a licence would be issued before the current legislation was brought in. People had to pay for a monitored system, join a range even before they bought a firearm Put pistol shooting out of a lot of peoples reach for a while until they could change the law.

sharky0922

bunny shooter wrote: »

I've same setup on my system (Phonewatch).

As Dwight says it's a good setup and only costs the extra sensor which I think is currently around €80 ? My system cost me €1200 a good few years ago and the cost of the extra sensor in the scheme of things wasn't much :cool:

The radio link is a good option too and I think the system can work independently with this so you don't need a phone line



Probably more to do with making it more expensive to get a firearm as they started insisting pistol applicants had such a system before a licence would be issued before the current legislation was brought in. People had to pay for a monitored system, join a range even before they bought a firearm Put pistol shooting out of a lot of peoples reach for a while until they could change the law.

so how much is it monthly bunny?

dCorbus

I just had phone watch installed today. The guy was telling me I should have my gun safe alarmed

Has no-one else noticed one slightly worrying thing about this?:
Unless the phonewatch "engineer" was actually installing an alarm on the gun safe, why on earth would you tell him you had a gun safe? :eek:
Does anyone else see my point?

i.e. Some lad calls to your house to fit an alarm - and you let him know you have guns in the house!

Now, call me paranoid and distrustful:D (And not to be casting aspersions on any installation engineers etc.). but I wouldn't have thought it wise to be passing this information about what you have or have not got stored / kept in your own house to any third party that calls to your house to fit an alarm or anything else.

If he's there to fit the gun-safe alarm, then fair enough - he obviously knows about it already. But if he's just there to fit a house alarm.....:eek::eek::eek:

Or maybe I am paranoid.....:D

Cass

The lad that installed my home burglar alarm and set up the phone watch, etc is the related to well known sports shooter. His friends are sports shooters, etc. He even does a deal for firearms holders. Don't know if i can mention his name or company (without checking with him).

I know what you're saying dCorbus, not all installers will be of the same backround, but in my experience i got him through word of mouth and alot of other lads that had the same system installed by him got it the same way.

You'll find shooters will stick together on issues like this. As in if one company can be trusted alot of shooters will use the same company.

Odysseus

dCorbus wrote: »

Has no-one else noticed one slightly worrying thing about this?:
Unless the phonewatch "engineer" was actually installing an alarm on the gun safe, why on earth would you tell him you had a gun safe? :eek:
Does anyone else see my point?

i.e. Some lad calls to your house to fit an alarm - and you let him know you have guns in the house!

Now, call me paranoid and distrustful:D (And not to be casting aspersions on any installation engineers etc.). but I wouldn't have thought it wise to be passing this information about what you have or have not got stored / kept in your own house to any third party that calls to your house to fit an alarm or anything else.

If he's there to fit the gun-safe alarm, then fair enough - he obviously knows about it already. But if he's just there to fit a house alarm.....:eek::eek::eek:

Or maybe I am paranoid.....:D

Because he saw it in the room, and on the monitoring form which the company forwards to the Garda the question is asked directly. Other wokers that may be in my house wouldn't know unless they are working in the room the safe is. I know what your saying, but there was no choice on this one. So no I wouldn't think your paranoid on this one.

dCorbus

thanks - that makes a lot more sense.

on the monitoring form which the company forwards to the Garda the question is asked directly

?

That's a bit more worrying - You see, and my point is, if you're not getting the gun-safe alarmed, there is absolutely no reason, as far as I can see, for any third party to be aware of the presence of firearms in your house - unless you know and trust them implicitly.

I'd be interested to see this form you mentioned, as I don't believe that a private company such as eircom (or any other) should be in possession of such information. (It's bad enough that an Post are in possession of similar info, without the world and it's mother getting in on the act!:D)

Ezridax, I take your point about the lad (in your case) being known to you and therefore trustworthy - but I would be surprised that if I called phonewatch to have my alarm altered here in Dublin, that I'd be given the choice of installers to pick from to make sure one was known to me or trusted by my fellow shooters.

My main point is, and hopefully I'm not belabouring it, I would be very very wary of letting any tradesman or installer (or anyone else for that matter) know where or what I personally have stored in my own house. Even if I did know them and trust them, unless they were shooters themselves and thus hopefully would appreciate the ramifications more, I would still not be too flaithulach with my info.

Fair enough, Odysseus, I do accept your point that it may have been unavoidable for him not to notice the big lump of safe sitting in the corner.

he saw it in the room,

I'd still cover it with a dust sheet when there's lads about the house. Had this situation recently and was v careful (insofar as possible) to make sure the only lads who knew what and where the safe was, were on a "need-to-know" basis!:D

But.... to get back on topic and answer your OP - Yes, it sounds very much like a not-so-subtle sales pitch! and from the way you describe it, our-man-from-eircom won't be winning salesman of the year!:D

Fenster18

It is a sales pitch, I am a registered installer, and the Gards dont give us any guidelines as to what should be alarmed or not.
Secondly are so many people going with Eircom Phone watch ? They are the far too expensive and any registered company can have your alarm monitored, and €350 for a radio unit ?? Why not just use GSM Dialler far cheaper and will text you and you can text it. Lads seriously PhoneWatch will screw you.

Odysseus

dCorbus wrote: »

I'd be interested to see this form you mentioned, as I don't believe that a private company such as eircom (or any other) should be in possession of such information. (It's bad enough that an Post are in possession of similar info, without the world and it's mother getting in on the act!:D)

I don't have a copy, but the actual form had the Garda crest on it.

Odysseus

Fenster18 wrote: »

It is a sales pitch, I am a registered installer, and the Gards dont give us any guidelines as to what should be alarmed or not.
Secondly are so many people going with Eircom Phone watch ? They are the far too expensive and any registered company can have your alarm monitored, and €350 for a radio unit ?? Why not just use GSM Dialler far cheaper and will text you and you can text it. Lads seriously PhoneWatch will screw you.

Seriously, were where you a few weeks ago:rolleyes: Always happens to me. I paid e580 there was an alleged deal on the day I rang, which of course was expiring within 24hrs. I got a price a while ago from a guy who is an installer but would have been doing it as a nixer he wanted 600e.

knockon

sharky0922 wrote: »

heh.. don;t understand why you guys go with this system , since they do nothing? they just call and thats it..
i if alarm is activated then they call you to check is that real alarm, and if so the will call gardai? wont send security guys? or i;m missing something?
so is it really necessary to pay for 2 phone calls ?
i understand its required by law when you hold 3 or more guns to have alarm
but you really have to buy this kind of "protection" ? or you can make something by your own which is the same(or better)?!

i mounted alarm by myself, and its doing same stuff.
if alarms is activated its calling and sending text which telling me which sensor was activated. i can check status anytime, can block it anytime , activated one sensor or other. if would want i could program it to switch on lights/other equipment by text , or on time. theres no limitation!
so its doing same thing/more!


somebody made this law to make more money of people :rolleyes:

Unless your alarm is installed by an installer who is ISA Accredited it cannot be monitored. You have a GSM system. Every been to a large sport event or at certain times of the year trying to get text messages - the delay can be extraordinary long. Going abroad? Text messages while you are tucking into a Pina Colada - no thanks - call my Dad or Brother Mr Phonewatch.
Lastly - Some Scum bag who was attending my Appeal in the D.C. now knows thanks to the gardai that I have my two Pistols and a shotgun in the Gun Safe starts to kick in my front door I can hit the panic buttons that come with the Alarm system.

I should add that some people including myself may have a profession where home security is paramount.

knockon

dCorbus wrote: »

thanks - that makes a lot more sense.



?

That's a bit more worrying - You see, and my point is, if you're not getting the gun-safe alarmed, there is absolutely no reason, as far as I can see, for any third party to be aware of the presence of firearms in your house - unless you know and trust them implicitly.

I'd be interested to see this form you mentioned, as I don't believe that a private company such as eircom (or any other) should be in possession of such information. (It's bad enough that an Post are in possession of similar info, without the world and it's mother getting in on the act!:D)

Ezridax, I take your point about the lad (in your case) being known to you and therefore trustworthy - but I would be surprised that if I called phonewatch to have my alarm altered here in Dublin, that I'd be given the choice of installers to pick from to make sure one was known to me or trusted by my fellow shooters.

My main point is, and hopefully I'm not belabouring it, I would be very very wary of letting any tradesman or installer (or anyone else for that matter) know where or what I personally have stored in my own house. Even if I did know them and trust them, unless they were shooters themselves and thus hopefully would appreciate the ramifications more, I would still not be too flaithulach with my info.

Fair enough, Odysseus, I do accept your point that it may have been unavoidable for him not to notice the big lump of safe sitting in the corner.



I'd still cover it with a dust sheet when there's lads about the house. Had this situation recently and was v careful (insofar as possible) to make sure the only lads who knew what and where the safe was, were on a "need-to-know" basis!:D

But.... to get back on topic and answer your OP - Yes, it sounds very much like a not-so-subtle sales pitch! and from the way you describe it, our-man-from-eircom won't be winning salesman of the year!:D

I agree - why bother telling them. Incidentally, all alarm installers have to be licensed by the PSA - Private Security Authority which involves being vetted bi-anually by the GVA - Garda Vetting Office in Thurles. It's one area that has really cleaned up the act.

chem

knockon wrote: »

Unless your alarm is installed by an installer who is ISA Accredited it cannot be monitored. You have a GSM system. Every been to a large sport event or at certain times of the year trying to get text messages - the delay can be extraordinary long. Going abroad? Text messages while you are tucking into a Pina Colada - no thanks - call my Dad or Brother Mr Phonewatch.
.

It can also be programmed to text, up to 5 other key holders.

Odysseus

knockon wrote: »

I agree - why bother telling them. Incidentally, all alarm installers have to be licensed by the PSA - Private Security Authority which involves being vetted bi-anually by the GVA - Garda Vetting Office in Thurles. It's one area that has really cleaned up the act.

You missed my post about the direct question on the monitoring agreement then:) On a serious note its good to hear that about the vetting, I'm vetted for work purposes too. However, within the HSE once its done that's it over, unless you apply for a different post then its done again. The bi-anually vetting is a good way to go, though anually would be better, but I know myself the vetting office does be swamped with requests. I actually have a copy of mine which I submitt with my applications, it out of date and they re-check, but since I have it I just add it to the pile.

sharky0922

knockon wrote: »

Unless your alarm is installed by an installer who is ISA Accredited it cannot be monitored. You have a GSM system. Every been to a large sport event or at certain times of the year trying to get text messages - the delay can be extraordinary long. Going abroad? Text messages while you are tucking into a Pina Colada - no thanks - call my Dad or Brother Mr Phonewatch.
Lastly - Some Scum bag who was attending my Appeal in the D.C. now knows thanks to the gardai that I have my two Pistols and a shotgun in the Gun Safe starts to kick in my front door I can hit the panic buttons that come with the Alarm system.

I should add that some people including myself may have a profession where home security is paramount.

yes i have gsm system, and ? never had problem with it. NEVER.
(if you don;t believe in gsm system you can always connect landlne to it, in the same time, one wont work? second will or 2 in the same time)
going abroad? hehe..you joking me?
you know whats real monitored alarm? when you press alarm and have armed security patrol in less than 10 minutes (guaranteed) in front of your door! and every night drive by..just in case.. and what they can do? call you wow! thats why i;m laughing at this , sorry don;t want to offend anybody.

if you think that panic button will help you? good for you! you can have panic button in EVERY alarm system too..(with every fancy-shmancy thing you could plug into the system like lights, sirens , sprinklers, imagination is just limit..hehe ) :rolleyes:

you see this system is not helping us, it just helping them to make more money of us! i know have to be ISA accredited bla bla..
but they could allow that system right? self-monitoring one? no because you will keep your money to yourself! :eek:
is there any other company who CAN offer same thing? any competition at all for phonewatch?

Lastly - Some Scum bag who was attending my Appeal in the D.C. now knows thanks to the gardai that I have my two Pistols and a shotgun in the Gun Safe starts to kick in my front door

well you can always say that youre not home or do the tricks from "Home alone" they worked!:D
but this sword works two ways, they might think about it twice before they try something stupid right?

sharky0922

chem wrote: »

It can also be programmed to text, up to 5 other key holders.

depends on the system of course
you can send text. call. send, fax, clip message (? if i remember correctly)
land line call, or everything!
you can program (talking about my system) when sensor A is activated lights (wireless!)B is on/off, or whatever other crazy device you can put in to system(basically no limit). ive seen the video when guy had system when you came into dining room voice(womens hehe) was saying " you have 5 seconds to leave house, then i will call police"

sky is the limit only ..

xesse

i wouldn,t worry too much about the alarm guys ... when you have to go into the post office and pay for your licience and the woman behind the counter telling you all about how many others were in before you doing the same. i can only assume that when the next guy approaches the counter she will be telling him what i was doing there.you might as well declare to all in sundry that i have a load of firearms in my house

dCorbus wrote: »

Has no-one else noticed one slightly worrying thing about this?:
Unless the phonewatch "engineer" was actually installing an alarm on the gun safe, why on earth would you tell him you had a gun safe? :eek:
Does anyone else see my point?

i.e. Some lad calls to your house to fit an alarm - and you let him know you have guns in the house!

Now, call me paranoid and distrustful:D (And not to be casting aspersions on any installation engineers etc.). but I wouldn't have thought it wise to be passing this information about what you have or have not got stored / kept in your own house to any third party that calls to your house to fit an alarm or anything else.

If he's there to fit the gun-safe alarm, then fair enough - he obviously knows about it already. But if he's just there to fit a house alarm.....:eek::eek::eek:

Or maybe I am paranoid.....:D

Dusty87

Odysseus wrote: »

I just had phone watch installed today. The guy was telling me I should have my gun safe alarmed. I have two guns [hopefully a third soon], I informed him that I did not and he was telling that they where told to tell people that any gun safe should be alarmed. I like the idea but my budget won't allow me to get anything extra than I have at the moment. So what do you lads think, just a sales pitch?

If someone's going to get by your house alarm un-noticed in the first place, they'll get by the safe too.

bunny shooter

sharky0922 wrote: »

so how much is it monthly bunny?

€37 ish :eek:

sharky0922

bunny shooter wrote: »

€37 ish :eek:

:eek:

happyjack

If your paying the extra dosh for a key holder working for a security firm to call out and check your house, well i can tell you now those staff are not security licensed, they maybe checked by the company they work for, but not by the PSA, next your all going bananas about nothing, do you really think the Gardai are going to call around to your house at 3am to stop your guns being stolen, how fast can they muster an armed responce unit? thier track record in responding to monitored alarms is crap, remember the gun dealer who was robbed after the Gardai made him fit 10,000 worth of alarm stuff then did'nt bother respond when all the guns were stolen! A big retail business where I work was robbed 3 years ago, 30,000 40,000 euro's worth of goods stolen in 3 minutes, Gardai took 5 hours to travel 1 mile from the barrack to the since of the break in. alarm was blaring on and off, 20 minutes on 20 minutes off, goods never recovered, a friend of mine watched the building for the five hours, and it was a monitored site and the alarm was fully functional, read the small print on what the Gardai say about responding to alarms, they reserve the right to fail to respond when ever it suits them. Also I'd go with never ever showing anyone where your gun safe is, thats how a good friend of mine had 3 guns stolen, he had a buddy round for a cuppa, turned out the buddy had scumbag friends, they chewed the top off the safe with a angle grinder as they new what nights no one would be home. Funny enough they left all ammo behind! I'd recommend a good dog, keeping the gun parts seperate and broken down at all times when not in use , remember, unlike the USA (12%) in Ireland your 50% likely to be home when they come to rob your house, and will the alarm be any good then, what use is an alarm when your 50% likely to in your house when your robbed?


HJ:)

cavan shooter

I have been upgrading my own house securiity lately and all done for less than €300:

I have the house alarmed and its on a dialer system. I boxed in the safe now so its like a press. I also chopped off the plaster to get back to a block wall re bolted wall and floor and fixed Tech 7 along the edges. Next I fitted angle iron along the edge so you cant get a jemmy in behind. Hope I never have to move it. A friend of mine put an additional pir in the room with the safe and I have a discreet cctv on the back of the house.

Odysseus

happyjack wrote: »

If your paying the extra dosh for a key holder working for a security firm to call out and check your house, well i can tell you now those staff are not security licensed, they maybe checked by the company they work for, but not by the PSA, next your all going bananas about nothing, do you really think the Gardai are going to call around to your house at 3am to stop your guns being stolen, how fast can they muster an armed responce unit? thier track record in responding to monitored alarms is crap, remember the gun dealer who was robbed after the Gardai made him fit 10,000 worth of alarm stuff then did'nt bother respond when all the guns were stolen! A big retail business where I work was robbed 3 years ago, 30,000 40,000 euro's worth of goods stolen in 3 minutes, Gardai took 5 hours to travel 1 mile from the barrack to the since of the break in. alarm was blaring on and off, 20 minutes on 20 minutes off, goods never recovered, a friend of mine watched the building for the five hours, and it was a monitored site and the alarm was fully functional, read the small print on what the Gardai say about responding to alarms, they reserve the right to fail to respond when ever it suits them. Also I'd go with never ever showing anyone where your gun safe is, thats how a good friend of mine had 3 guns stolen, he had a buddy round for a cuppa, turned out the buddy had scumbag friends, they chewed the top off the safe with a angle grinder as they new what nights no one would be home. Funny enough they left all ammo behind! I'd recommend a good dog, keeping the gun parts seperate and broken down at all times when not in use , remember, unlike the USA (12%) in Ireland your 50% likely to be home when they come to rob your house, and will the alarm be any good then, what use is an alarm when your 50% likely to in your house when your robbed?


HJ:)

No two close friends are key-holders. I know actually what you mean about the Garda, I was coming home one late night with an ex and cauaght someone climibing out of the window next door. Sent her in she callled them. I kept him there for 20mins, but it was starting to get to messy, so I told him to leave the stuff and jog on. One hour later cops arrived.

My work brings me into contact with the type of people who would be interested in my firearms, so I have a good sense of my security and the areas that would be weak. Its a question of doing what you can, this was one further step, and I have some areas where I want to do more. However, you know yourself its all about cash at the end of the day; but I have upgrades in mind. It a case of I'm now one step futher with my plans.

Fenster18

Key Holding staff are vetted but nobody is vetted by the PSA themselves, to work in any kind of security firm you must have a 10 yr checkable background, this can be done by the company that employs you or by a seperate company. So please dont post something that will give keyholding companys a bad name.
For a company to be PSA licenced it has to keep documentation on background checks for all staff.