Sending out an SOS.- Pool and its future

Spiritoftheseventies

Kess73 wrote: »

One word describes the bit in bold.

Hyperbole.

yes agree in away. they are playing to the gallery now with that sort of talk. Up to the local papers not to be stirring up the situation. End of the day its just going to put ogg future buyers if a certain element have been seen to run the owners out of town this way.

monkey9

Mr Alan wrote: »

Are people really trying to say that Hicks Jnr, who is one of the directors of LFC should be allowed to send a correspondance to a fan with that content? if i did that in work i'd be sacked. and so should he have been.

If a board member of any company said that to a customer, they'd be out on their ear.

Shankly would be spinning in his grave and if it happened on his watch, he'd have forcibly removed Hicks Jnr himself!!

It's great to see fan power make a difference at the club.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc_XSdOLFSU

kryogen

monkey9 wrote: »

If a board member of any company said that to a customer, they'd be out on their ear.

Shankly would be spinning in his grave and if it happened on his watch, he'd have forcibly removed Hicks Jnr himself!!

It's great to see fan power make a difference at the club.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc_XSdOLFSU

Your right, Benitez is weak for not physically throwing him out himself

Kess73

Mr Alan wrote: »

Are people really trying to say that Hicks Jnr, who is one of the directors of LFC should be allowed to send a correspondance to a fan with that content? if i did that in work i'd be sacked. and so should he have been.

I don't think anyone is saying he should reply to anyone in the manner that he did, and nobody is saying that he was not stupid, naive, and maybe arrogant in how he replied.

If the person he replied to was genuine and was not pestering him on a regular basis with mails, then Hicks jnr has not got a leg to stand on, but it does look like this is the payoff for a continued campaign, and that is what I think is leaving a bad taste in the mouths of many.

So in my opinion; should Hicks jnr, a man in a position of authority at the club, have resigned for the way he replied? Hell yes, I don't think there was any other outcome there.


Do I think it was a cynical campaign designed to provoke such a response from him or any of the others? Yes I do think so, and as such it feels a very hollow victory, if a victory at all.

Kess73

monkey9 wrote: »

If a board member of any company said that to a customer, they'd be out on their ear.

Shankly would be spinning in his grave and if it happened on his watch, he'd have forcibly removed Hicks Jnr himself!!

It's great to see fan power make a difference at the club.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc_XSdOLFSU

The great man would be spinning in his grave at a lot of things I think, and not just at the owners. That is the great pity in all of this.

The general cause is right I feel, but some of the tactics used and some of the battles fought, have blurred the lines somewhat.

Liverpool are in big big trouble financially and the next year or two could prove to be pivitol.

Until new investment is found the club may possibly have to sell our best players and buy sub-standard replacements which could see us drop out of the top 4, even top 6.

David Moores has a lot to answer for.

noodler

I wish I was as self-righteous as my fellow pool fans.

Thread not needed.

Kess73

Kess73 wrote: »

The great man would be spinning in his grave at a lot of things I think, and not just at the owners. That is the great pity in all of this.

The general cause is right I feel, but some of the tactics used and some of the battles fought, have blurred the lines somewhat.

Some of the tactics are frankly embarressing tbh.

Mr Alan

Kess73 wrote: »

I don't think anyone is saying he should reply to anyone in the manner that he did, and nobody is saying that he was not stupid, naive, and maybe arrogant in how he replied.

Do I think it was a cynical campaign designed to provoke such a response from him or any of the others? Yes I do think so, and as such it feels a very hollow victory, if a victory at all.

"Maybe" arrogant? are you for real?

where are you getting this was a persistant harrasment by this fella, or a planned thing by SOS? or are you simly inventing this?

Headshot

it seems the SOS divides alot pool fans

how many active members do SOS have ?

Bandit12

kryogen wrote: »

Your right, Benitez is weak for not physically throwing him out himself

Kess73

Mr Alan wrote: »

"Maybe" arrogant? are you for real?

where are you getting this was a persistant harrasment by this fella, or a planned thing by SOS? or are you simly inventing this?

Maybe you should actually pay attention to what I have written in this thread and stop trying to be the superfan all the time. You have being following me about like a bitchdog in heat the last few days looking for something to feign outrage at.


"Maybe arrogant, are you for real?" LMAO.

Clutching at straws there. Yes maybe he was arrogant in his reply, but if he was it cost him, hardly something for you to be jumping up and down with.


"Are you for real?" It gets funnier the more I read it.



"Persistant Harrassment"

A lot of people have picked up on the fact that there was more than one email, hell even the guy himself said so in an interview that he had sent a number of mails asking about the club finances, and not just one email. I have also said that the guy himself may have shown no malice in his emails, but that it was fair to say that his email was the one the broke the camel's back.

What was wrong with that comment? Nothing because the reaction of Hicks jnr proved that it was the email that caused him to snap. The lack of offensive content is irrelevant.



"a planned thing by SOS? or are you simly inventing this?"

Are you trying to say that there was no campaign to get people to send mails to a list of email addresses? Hmm gee I wonder why was there lists of emails addresses on most of the liverpool fc fansites.

Gee I wonder why you yourself sent email to Hicks jnr, something you mention on this thread?

It must be a mass delusion as a number of Liverpool fans on this thread and the superthread seem to think there was a campaign to encourage supporters to email their concerns to the owners and other club officials. I guess the all must be "simly inventing " it. As for who organised it? Well I cannot say, can you?

I could not give a rat's ass that you have a problem with me, and unlike you, I have given polite and non sarky replies to your posts in this thread, even when I disagree totally with you.

So in future if you have a problem with me, send a pm and we can hash it out there rather than doing it through the forums and boring everyone else.

If you disagree with me or have a different view on a subject, then articulate what you think in a non "are you for real?" (still funny btw) manner, and I will be happy to treat you in the same manner and show you the same respect.

Personally I hope you chose the option of debating your opinions and sending a pm if you have a problem, as you can be an interesting poster at times, even when you say things I disagree with. Hell I might even buy you a pint at the SOS end of season party.


The ball is in your court.

The other options are to simply ignore me or not bother to reply to me.

Kess73

Headshot wrote: »

it seems the SOS divides alot pool fans

how many active members do SOS have ?

Whatever gives you that idea?

You should see how bad it gets when marmite is the topic of discussion.

Spiritoftheseventies

Headshot wrote: »

it seems the SOS divides alot pool fans

how many active members do SOS have ?

I think you would have to question some of their tactics. Understand they are at the coalface of this dispute and feel their club is under threat but again feel there was a bit of harassment against Hicks Jr. He was wrong to reply in the way they did but just feel it leaves a bit of sour taste in the mouth.

ziggy

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Headshot

ziggy wrote: »

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give us the low down

Mr Alan

Kess73 wrote: »

Clutching at straws there. Yes maybe he was arrogant in his reply, but if he was it cost him, hardly something for you to be jumping up and down with.

what i am blown away by.....is that a board member at LFC replied to a fan "idot", when presented with an article abot debt/transfers. then when questioned on it he replied, "blow me ****face" ....... and you say MAYBE it was an arrogant response?!

A lot of people have picked up on the fact that there was more than one email, hell even the guy himself said so in an interview that he had sent a number of mails asking about the club finances, and not just one email.

exactly, the guy said there was two afaik. "idiot" was the response to his first one. i'm sure hicks & co have recd loads over the last couple of years, that is no excuse. perhaps he sent more than that over a period of months/years, again thats totally fair enough.

I have also said that the guy himself may have shown no malice in his emails, but that it was fair to say that his email was the one the broke the camel's back.

fair enough, then he should have arranged for them to be dumped into a junk mail folder, something that could have been easily done i'd imagine.

Are you trying to say that there was no campaign to get people to send mails to a list of email addresses? Hmm gee I wonder why was there lists of emails addresses on most of the liverpool fc fansites.

i have never witnessed an organised campaign to mail Hicks or anyone. i have seen email addresses online on message boards, but ones nothing to do with SOS.

Gee I wonder why you yourself sent email to Hicks jnr, something you mention on this thread?

i actually mailed Hicks before i was a member of SOS.

As for who organised it? Well I cannot say, can you?

no one organised it imo. it was simply fans voicing their grievances in a perfectly normal & acceptable way by contacting the people concerned.

ziggy

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Mr Alan

the email is horrendous.

this union rep said that "hicks got what he deserved?" re: the incident in the pub? i sincerely doubt it, if so i'll be mailing the union to complain.

ziggy

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Mr Alan

i'm hoping it was probably something more along the lines of, he should have known better than to go in there, which of course is true.

ziggy

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Mr Alan

no, not at all. could have been much worse tbh.

a director of a company however, emailing a customer (which is how these people see this), saying "blow me **** face", is a little different to some knobhead tryin to be a big man in a pub throwin a pint over a man who is doing a fairly good job of destroying one of the most successful & widely supported football clubs in the world.

Mr Alan

Ziggy, if i was to say "blow me ****face" to you, it would not be a big deal. we are two private individuals chatting online.however a director of company responding to a concerned fan in that way really does typify the disdain with which these custodians seem to view the "fans".

ziggy

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Mr Alan

ziggy wrote: »

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well i suppose its all relative to what we're talking about.

we're talkin about a chairman of a football club telling a fan to **** off & blow him, so i guess when comparing it to some of the horrendous actions of other people around the world, i guess it is a touch much to call it horrendous.

however when viewing it in isolation, its about the very worst thing a company director could say to a "customer". so it is horrendous in that sense if you know what i mean.

Kess73

Mr Alan wrote: »

what i am blown away by.....is that a board member at LFC replied to a fan "idot", when presented with an article abot debt/transfers. then when questioned on it he replied, "blow me ****face" ....... and you say MAYBE it was an arrogant response?!



exactly, the guy said there was two afaik. "idiot" was the response to his first one. i'm sure hicks & co have recd loads over the last couple of years, that is no excuse. perhaps he sent more than that over a period of months/years, again thats totally fair enough.



fair enough, then he should have arranged for them to be dumped into a junk mail folder, something that could have been easily done i'd imagine.



i have never witnessed an organised campaign to mail Hicks or anyone. i have seen email addresses online on message boards, but ones nothing to do with SOS.



i actually mailed Hicks before i was a member of SOS.



no one organised it imo. it was simply fans voicing their grievances in a perfectly normal & acceptable way by contacting the people concerned.

What is interesting is that there has been very little mention, on this site, of the third mail from Hicks jnr to Stephen Horner, received on Saturday night. The one where alarms bells must have been going off in Hicks jnr's head, and he sent this email to say sorry.


“Stephen, I apologise for losing my temper and using bad language with you. It was a kneejerk reaction. Tommy

Now this could be seen as one of two things, a man saying sorry because he knew he was wrong, or a guy realising that he cocked up badly and was going to get caught out for being abusive. I think it is the latter.

What happens next is striking. The response of the offended party is to go straight online to show the emails and contact is initiated between the SOS and Stephen Horner very quickly, with the mainstream media receiving a statement from the SOS on the matter.


And the fact that Stephen Horner had a very well prepared statement ready, it was printed in full in the Liverpool Echo today, does suggest a degree of premeditation or coaching from some source, unless Stephen is very media savvy, in which case it was done well by him .

Below is the statement to the press. Now it is well done, and I must say that I agree with the points made in it, but it just seems a little too perfect that the one guy who got insulted by Hicks jnr just happened to be someone who had a statement ready so quickly, and was so comfortably speaking with the media.




"The email that I sent on Saturday morning to Tom Hicks Senior, George Gillett and Tom Hicks Jnr was merely a link to the Liverpool Echo article, 'Rafa Benitez should not have to manage Liverpool FC's debt', where I copied and pasted the pertinent points made in the article.

"I was polite and offered no personal view on the article, but felt compelled to send the article to the owners as it succinctly covered all of the main concerns that we as supporters have with the current situation; namely the £240m debt which Hicks and Gillett have loaded onto the club, the lack of investment in the playing squad and the false promises over the new stadium.

"We are totally hamstrung as a result of the leveraged buy out by Hicks and Gillett and cannot move forward as a football club on or off the field.

"We finished second in the league last season and should have kicked on this season. There should have been investment in the playing squad in the summer and yet we have invested less than we recouped through player sales.

"We will continue to regress whilst Hicks and Gillett are owners of this worldwide institution. I am sick and tired of the propaganda and spin that is coming out of Liverpool Football Club.

"It is time for honesty. We exist to win trophies, not to pay off debts that have been loaded onto the club by others. The damage has been done by Hicks’ initial two email messages that he sent me on Saturday morning and the apology received later in the day is hollow and probably a PR exercise.”

"The Gillett and Hicks reign has been nothing short of disastrous and they have proved time and time again that they are not fit and proper custodians of this special football club which means so much to so many people around the world. I urge former Chairman David Moores to now step forward and speak out, and admit his fatal mistake in selling to Gillett and Hicks.

"Hicks Jnr should resign with immediate effect and it is time that Gillett and Hicks sold up and handed the reigns over to people who understand ‘the Liverpool way’.

"They are not welcome at Anfield.”



It could just be a coincidence of course, rather than the illusion of coincidence, but the delivery of the statement just does not sit right with me, despite me agreeing with it's contents.





As I said earlier, I think the cause is right, and that the cause is a true one. But I have serious doubts at times over some of the tactics used at times.

No doubt some would argue that the end justifies the means, but rightly or wrongly I hold the supporters of the club to a higher standard than I do the owners, whom I know cannot be trusted.

This may be an idealistic and fanciful notion, one that has no real place where there is such a varied cross section of society within the ranks of the supporters, but I think that an ideal, a cause, should be held to a higher standard otherwise we fall to the level of those we fight against.

ziggy

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Mr Alan

pretty sure the original thread the lad put up on TLW actually still contains the rep from the union asking people do they know how they can get in touch with the lad & stating they've pm'd him to disuss further.

and i dont think his short statement being ready two days later is in any way suspect, its only couple of short paragraphs.

Mr Alan

ziggy wrote: »

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apologies, director it was.