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Goverment Failure in current Weather crisis

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13

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    #62
    Fuhrer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    BostonB wrote: »
    Deeply embrassing that we can't manage a tiny bit of snow.


    Still, at least we're better then the Polish in other ways.


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    #63
    L.T.D
    Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭L.T.D


    Ugh


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    #64
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    carveone wrote: »
    It's been quite irritating listening to people comparing the situation to other countries: "Wah, I was in Scotland and the roads were usable... etc etc.". There's quite a difference between the situation here and in colder countries. I lived in Ottawa, Canada for 4 years and saw 6 months of snow every year. You can walk on snow (assuming it's not too deep) and you can drive on snow. Hell, you can cycle on snow. I drove happily on snow roads that were not gritted and not ploughed, just packed down. I admit my car had good types and traction control but still...

    The situation here is not snow, it's ice. I saw this type of weather - above 0 in the day, below at night for about 2-3 days a year in Ottawa and it always sucked, especially if it happened in the thaw where there was little snow left. A&E would suddenly fill with broken wrists and head injuries and there'd be fender benders from tailgaters. The roads would be slush city and the sidewalks would be skating rinks. People wouldn't go out at all, never mind go to work.

    Personally I think the Dublin councils have been doing sterling service considering that we rarely see this type of ice lasting for a week. All they can do is clear the roads and they've been doing it really well. The media would be better served telling people how to grit the paths outside their house.

    PS: "Who is to Blame!" screams the Herald this evening. Would that be God?!

    I take your point about it being ice and not snow. That is unusally. But I don't agree with the councils. I've seen almost no one out working to clear anything, and I've seen no evidence of it either. Theres been hardly any gritting compared to other years.

    The expection to that is I have seen them gritting one side a few major roads. Which is just weird.


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    #65
    Theta
    Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭Theta


    BostonB wrote: »
    I cleared a couple of drives and paths the previous night. While the new snow covered them it wasn't slippy because there was nothing underneath it.

    I did the same and it was back to being Ice after the snow fell within an hour id say.

    And it is just a bit of bad weather get on with it will you! You would swear it was -50 and people were dying in the streets.

    They grit what they can when they can. No point in wasting grit in housing estates that should be used on main roads. All of the main roads around me have been gritted and are fine to drive on!

    And someone saying getting the army out to grit the roads is having a laugh. They dont have gritting trucks and its not just sand they are spreading its a mix of rock salt and sand so its not like they can just load up with bags from your local builders providers and throw them off the back of the truck.


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    #66
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    The army did it in the past. I remember them being out in bad snow. They helped out emergency services too. Sand would be better than nothing. at the moment people are getting around with no help at all.

    The point is you'd only be clearing one layer the next time. Not a couple of layers built up. Mines still walkable anyway and its -5 or something outside.


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    #67
    G86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,660 ✭✭✭G86


    Well they've just declared a national emergency, so hopefully that will get the defence forces out and on to clearing up the roads a bit.


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    #68
    carveone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,215 ✭✭✭carveone


    BostonB wrote: »
    I take your point about it being ice and not snow. That is unusally. But I don't agree with the councils. I've seen almost no one out working to clear anything, and I've seen no evidence of it either. Theres been hardly any gritting compared to other years.

    The expection to that is I have seen them gritting one side a few major roads. Which is just weird.

    I'll admit, I've been taking their word for it given that I don't have a car at the moment. They've been doing it at night and certainly the roads appear gritted in the morning... Looks like they then slush up and freeze over making the gritting less effective.

    I'm lucky to be near a Dart station and I believe the Luas lines are probably working grand too.


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    #69
    Theta
    Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭Theta


    BostonB wrote: »
    The army did it in the past. I remember them being out in bad snow. They helped out emergency services too. Sand would be better than nothing. at the moment people are getting around with no help at all.

    The point is you'd only be clearing one layer the next time. Not a couple of layers built up. Mines still walkable anyway and its -5 or something outside.

    Yeah they were prob digging out snow this is ice and like I said they dont have gritters so they cant spread it anyway!


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    #70
    Mossy Monk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 28,128 ✭✭✭✭Mossy Monk


    G86 wrote: »
    Well they've just declared a national emergency

    For God's sake.


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    #71
    Ciaran500
    Registered Users Posts: 8,225 ✭✭✭Ciaran500


    G86 wrote: »
    Well they've just declared a national emergency, so hopefully that will get the defence forces out and on to clearing up the roads a bit.
    Any source on that? RTE isn't reporting it.


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    #72
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Cowan is probably using the snow emergency to suspend the dail, bring back rationing, silence the media etc. Old Fianna Fail trick :)


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    #73
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    G86 wrote: »
    Well they've just declared a national emergency

    Cowens breakfast roll was late this morning apparently.......


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    #74
    RATM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭RATM


    pookie82 wrote: »
    It's utterly pointless for smug foreigners to titter at our incompetence to deal with an inch of snow. Why should we be prepared for it? It happens about once every twenty years. Perfectly reasonable that we would be scared to use the roads etc when we don't have snow tyres or ploughs in place to get on with it. It really pisses me off when foreigners who are used to snow for six months of the year and whose countries are well equipped to deal with it because they have to every year laugh at us.

    Thats flawed logic. Just because something does not happen that often does not mean you shouldn't prepare for it. Nuclear accidents happen far less than snow yet according to the National Emergency Board we are prepared for a nuclear accident.
    Flooding happens here far more frequently than snow yet the recent events show that we were not prepared for it.

    In the words of the wise Benjamin Franklin 'Failure to plan is to plan for failure'. Which pretty much sums up the performance of our government on this and many other issues.


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    #75
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    Surely everybody is in agreement that once again our Government has made a shambles of a situation that could have been dealt with very quickly?
    That is after all the main point in the op.

    Somebody said planning should have been done by people in forseeing the snow/ice. What about the Governement then? Should they not be expected to plan as well? Or has everyone come to the forgone conclusion that the Government of Ireland are useless and a lost cause?


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    #76
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    BostonB wrote: »
    People/shops/businesses should be made to clear the pavement outside their house. .

    Including disabled/elderly/tenants ("its the landlords job")/landlords ("its the tenants job")/apartment dwellers ("its the bloke downstairs job")/People away from home/unoccupied houses……………?


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    #77
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Including disabled/elderly/tenants ("its the landlords job")/landlords ("its the tenants job")/apartment dwellers ("its the bloke downstairs job")/People away from home/unoccupied houses……………?
    Oddball: Always with the negative waves Moriarty, always with the negative waves.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0065938/quotes

    Big Joe wouldn't be happy with you're can't do attidue Mike.
    Big Joe: Now when I come back, I want that farmhouse not only clean but completely decorated. Do you understand that?


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    #78
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    carveone wrote: »
    I'll admit, I've been taking their word for it given that I don't have a car at the moment. They've been doing it at night and certainly the roads appear gritted in the morning... Looks like they then slush up and freeze over making the gritting less effective.....

    Not everwheres the same. Looks like Norway around here.

    I'm sure they are gritting in places. But they did it too late, and too little.


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    #79
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Just out of interest.
    In parts of the world the public is expected to help keep the streets clear of snow. In Minneapolis, in the US, it's your legal duty.
    "Keeping our sidewalks free of ice and snow is the neighbourly thing to do, and it's the law... please do your part," says the local authority's website.
    The rules are strict. Snow must be removed from pavements outside homes within 24 hours of snowfall ending. However, they are given free "sidewalk sand" to do the job.
    If the public works department gets a complaint or discovers that a pavement is not properly cleared, it gives the property owner a chance to do it. If the pavement has still not been cleared upon re-inspection, city crews will do the job and the home owner will be sent the bill.
    The US city of Boston is equally tough. The mayor's website states people have a personal responsibility to remove snow from "the full paved width of the sidewalk or a minimum of 42 inches wide". Fines can reach as much as $250 (£154) for each day the snow is left.
    Legal risk
    There are also strict regulations in Germany, Austria and Switzerland. Most German towns have a "street cleaning statute". Snow-shovelling requirements are spelled out in detail, even down to the minimum width of the cleared area and the time during which you must keep the snow cleared.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8443745.stm


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    #80
    junkyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,579 ✭✭✭junkyard


    BostonB wrote: »
    Just out of interest.



    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8443745.stm
    So it's our fault now, wow, that took some spin-doctoring.......:rolleyes:


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    #81
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    junkyard wrote: »
    So it's our fault now, wow, that took some spin-doctoring.......:rolleyes:

    I don't get you. How is it spin? What is our fault? Its fact of life in other countries.


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    #82
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    G86 wrote: »
    Well they've just declared a national emergency

    Suspension of constitution and martial law to follow ?

    Incidentally the USA has been in a continuos state of Emergency since 1933.


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    #83
    bonzos
    Registered Users Posts: 806 ✭✭✭bonzos


    people need to calm down a bit,the snow will be gone in a few day and everything will be back to normal...the last thing we need now is to encourage the gov to set up another quango or task group to look into this which will end up sending a gang of TD's on "fact finding missions:rolleyes:"all over the world on first class flights....im sure john o donoghue is well overdue a holiday soon at the taxpayers expense!


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    #84
    Jev/N
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭Jev/N


    The problem actually seems to be the lack of snow, in most areas there is only a small bit which is then freezing and turning to black ice. If we had more than the circa. 2.5cm we've had (in Dublin at least), the paths would be easier to walk, roads easier to drive on etc. etc.

    Also, you can't just start saying typical fúcking Ireland and it's government, look at a similar situation over in the UK!


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    #85
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Jev/N wrote: »
    ...Also, you can't just start saying typical fúcking Ireland and it's government, look at a similar situation over in the UK!

    If fairness I think they got much worse weather there...


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    #86
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    carveone wrote: »
    "Wah, I was in Scotland and the roads were usable... etc etc.". There's quite a difference between the situation here and in colder countries.

    Wah, it's minus 16 there at the moment so plenty of ice...roads still drivable, wah, wah, wah. There is a snow plough passing down roads followed by gritters 24/7 - that's why. Wah, wah. :p

    In fairness, Scotland gets snow most years and so she has fleets of snow ploughs and gritters and a well practised team to deal with it. The UK government have now hauled together a national task force to make sure everyone has enough grit and equipment and they are struggling. I imagine Ireland has view resources and little experience of snow and ice to fall back on, in saying that - it's mostly common sense and the weather forecasters did their jobs some time ago.


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    #87
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Are ye seriously comparing Dublin with Scotland...


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    #88
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    Did ye see the quote in my post?! :confused:


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    #89
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Ireland is not the only country running short on salt.

    Where dose all this salt come from? :confused:

    These leaders were so obsessed with saving the world from global warming that they completely forgot to plan for the fu*ing winter

    http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Big-Freeze-UKs-Biggest-Salt-Mine-Says-Only-Few-Days-Supply-Left/Article/201001115516549?lpos=UK_News_First_Home_Article_Teaser_Region_1&lid=ARTICLE_15516549_Big_Freeze%3A_UKs_Biggest_Salt_Mine_Says_Only_Few_Days_Supply_Left


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    #90
    thethedev
    Closed Accounts Posts: 300 ✭✭thethedev


    Im in Scotland at the moment and even here people are complaining about the councils in ability. Its not to good here either, alright its worse than Ireland. But to be fair they're used to dealing with this type of thing and even then they are struggling.


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    #91
    ascanbe
    Registered Users Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭ascanbe


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVWdf1Ky2bI


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