Goverment Failure in current Weather crisis

pookie82

Size=everything wrote: »

Polish friend was just laughing this morning about how theres not even a 1/4 of an inch of snow and the city is essentially shut down. Shops closing early, bus routes stopped, cars going literally 5mph etc.

It's utterly pointless for smug foreigners to titter at our incompetence to deal with an inch of snow. Why should we be prepared for it? It happens about once every twenty years. Perfectly reasonable that we would be scared to use the roads etc when we don't have snow tyres or ploughs in place to get on with it. It really pisses me off when foreigners who are used to snow for six months of the year and whose countries are well equipped to deal with it because they have to every year laugh at us.

seamus

BostonB wrote: »

Guess you don't know any old people who are completely stranded at home because they can't use the pavements. All for the sake of a bit of grit.

Yep. My parents are at home, snowed in and can't get out of their driveway.

But like every other sensible person in the country, they saw the warnings last week to expect more snow, and the warnings at the weekend that there would definitely be snow, and you know what they did? They planned. They filled the house with food and made sure they had enough fuel so that they could stick out at least two weeks of this (even though it'll only be a few days).

Yet when people fail to plan, somehow it's the government's fault for not getting them out of the mess they've got themselves into.

Just like those people who live in flood plains, know that their area is susceptible to flooding, yet somehow it became the Government's problem when they got flooded and demanded compensation to rebuild.

Naturally there will be a few sob stories - mary with no friends and no relations and no tv who didn't know it was coming, but 99% of people who are in trouble today are in trouble because they failed to plan.

Myrddin

There are four words too many in the title of this thread.

ScumLord

What are ya on about the roads around here where grand, only Christmas day got really bad. Well gritted up today as well. Your just over reacting everything fines.

faceman

BennyLava wrote: »

What are the government doing this time S.F.A., things really need to change in this country.

Thats very unfair. You cant expect them to have to do anything while they are on their holidays. :pac:

seamus wrote:

It's not a crisis or emergency.

It's a bit of snow. Stop listening to the media and their hyping-up bull****.

If we spend €50m on equipment for something that occurs once every couple of years and doesn't have any major effect on the country aside from a few days off school and work, the media would be wailing about money wasting and jobs for the boys.

Just get on with life and stop making a big fncking drama about every piddly little thing. I got home last night, I got into work today, aside from things taking a little longer, my life nor anyone I know's life has not been affected in any major way. So stop panicking and get on with it.

I'd have to disagree. You are right on one account, its just a bit of prolonged snow and ice. The issue with it tho, is that it has been forecast and prolonged. It didnt come out of the blue. Local authorities should have been better prepared and equipped to deal with it. It shouldnt take this level of snow and ice to bring the country to its knees.

twinytwo

get some of the guys out of the prisons chain them up give em shovels and let them clear the roads... no need to spend millions on equipment we dont need and would cut something off the 98000 a year it cost to keep em in prison

seamus

faceman wrote: »

It shouldnt take this level of snow and ice to bring the country to its knees.

No it shouldn't. People should keep an eye on the forecast and prepare;
"It's probably going to snow tomorrow, meaning the traffic will turn to ****e. Worst case scenario: The busses stop. What am I going to do in that case? Would I better off staying at home or perhaps leaving at lunchtime?".

Even if the busses hadn't stopped, people should still have been prepared for public transport taking at least 3 hours to get from the city centre to the M50 and made alternative arrangements. Hint: It's quicker to walk that distance in most cases.

BostonB

seamus wrote: »

Yep. My parents are at home, snowed in and can't get out of their driveway.

But like every other sensible person in the country, they saw the warnings last week to expect more snow, and the warnings at the weekend that there would definitely be snow, and you know what they did? They planned. They filled the house with food and made sure they had enough fuel so that they could stick out at least two weeks of this (even though it'll only be a few days).....

Lol

seamus wrote: »

....my life nor anyone I know's life has not been affected in any major way...

So needing to stockpile food for 2 weeks, and not leaving the house...Completely not effected. Lol.

seamus

BostonB wrote: »

So needing to stockpile food for 2 weeks, and not leaving the house...Completely not effected. Lol.

Not really. They needed go shopping anyway. Life being affected in a major way is, "I have no water, no heating, I'm freezing and there's nobody who can get to me to help me. I will die if I can't get out".

If you think that needing to do a large shopping trip is "major", then you must live a pretty comfy life

My commute takes an hour longer now that it's freezing. I wouldn't consider that a major disruption.

keano_afc

Captain Havoc wrote: »

What's this standstill carp, I made it from my home in Kilkenny to my work in Carlow this morning because I'm not a numpty and took the train, a lot (not all) of people are using this as an excuse to scive because they are wussies, some people don't realise how not severe this weather is, it's a bit snow. If you have taken the day off enjoy it as it may be some time before we get snow like this again.

Now to go and fire some snowballs at people as no one is coming near the shop today.

Fish are standing upright!! Snow and ice is one thing, but now I'm really scared.

Dartz

weldoninhio wrote: »

Yeah!! Its all media hype. Dublin Bus just left me and hundreds more stranded last night by pulling all services at 4pm yesterday afternoon due to the hype!!!

I thought this was due to a big three-axle double decker sliding sideways down Constitution hill and nearly tipping over when it gripped at the bottom.

BostonB

seamus wrote: »

Not really. They needed go shopping anyway. Life being affected in a major way is, "I have no water, no heating, I'm freezing and there's nobody who can get to me to help me. I will die if I can't get out".

If you think that needing to do a large shopping trip is "major", then you must live a pretty comfy life

My commute takes an hour longer now that it's freezing. I wouldn't consider that a major disruption.

Its not major if you face life and death on a daily basis. Few in Ireland face that. Its nonsense to suggest otherwise. For most people not being about to do their normal daily activities is a major disruption. So not being able to walk up to the doc or the local shop is a major disruption. Not being able to get to work.

Your commute might be an hour longer mine was 2 hours longer. Thats because I made it up a hill I know would be impossible today, and I was able to do my ratrunning through estates that were ice rinks. Most people couldn't do that why it took them 3 and 4 hours to get home.

It was completely avoidable if they simply gritted the roads.

Osgoodisgood

twinytwo wrote: »

get some of the guys out of the prisons chain them up give em shovels and let them clear the roads... no need to spend millions on equipment we dont need and would cut something off the 98000 a year it cost to keep em in prison

That's the answer right there! They'll have it fixed by 5ish if they start now!

BostonB

Dartz wrote: »

I thought this was due to a big three-axle double decker sliding sideways down Constitution hill and nearly tipping over when it gripped at the bottom.

On the radio it was suggested they were sliding in towards bus stops due to the camber on the road. But anyway its pretty obvious safety issue there. I don't blame the buses, Its the people who didn't grit the road.

BostonB

If nothing else once they realised there was a problem, they could have got the army out, with a few trucks, and put some sand on the problem hills and bridges, that would have solved a lot of problems.

One of the problems was they did nothing till the traffic built up, then they couldn't get anywhere in the gritting lorries. Like Doh....

RobbieTheRobber

BostonB wrote: »

Most people couldn't do that why it took them 3 and 4 hours to get home.

It was completely avoidable if they simply gritted the roads.

There was no way they could grit the roads yesterday unless they did it before the snow came. Once the snow fell everybody paniced in a sky news style way. the entire city of Dublin all tried to leave their jobs around the same time. This was the time when there was snow and ice on the roads this caused traffic very slow moving traffic.

With this traffic on the roads how can anyone now get out to grit it?

We caused the problem yesterday by panicing not the government not Dublin city council not it was the peopel who were sat in traffic who caused the problem.

RobbieTheRobber

BostonB wrote: »

If nothing else once they realised there was a problem, they could have got the army out, with a few trucks, and put some sand on the problem hills and bridges, that would have solved a lot of problems.

One of the problems was they did nothing till the traffic built up, then they couldn't get anywhere in the gritting lorries. Like Doh....

They didn't let traffic build up, it happened it was unexpected.

Mossy Monk

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

it was unexpected.

No it wasn't. It was forecasted well in advance.

opinion guy

dambarude wrote: »

Surely Mary Harney could block the snow in some way?

Or migrating Inuit could use her blubber for fuel ??


I have been wondering thou. Isn't it part of the council's role to keep the roads and footpaths in good nick and ice free? So by failing to do that aren't they liable to some degree for any accidents that occur ? I mean if they were working flat out to keep them clear and coudl not then noone could reasonably expect anything more from them. But they largely have been ignoring it. If a little old dear falls on the road because she had to go to the shop to get food - couldn't she rightlyfully sue the council ? I would think paying the overtime and taking action to keep things clear woudl be cheaper than dealign with lawsuits

RobbieTheRobber

Mossy Monk wrote: »

No it wasn't. It was forecasted well in advance.

Very selective quoting there :rolleyes: I was refering to the traffic being unexpected not the weather. So unless there is traffic forecast, that Im not getting then, I dont see what your saying here!

seamus

opinion guy wrote: »

I have been wondering thou. Isn't it part of the council's role to keep the roads and footpaths in good nick and ice free? So by failing to do that aren't they liable to some degree for any accidents that occur ?
....
If a little old dear falls on the road because she had to go to the shop to get food - couldn't she rightlyfully sue the council ?

No, you can't sue a person or a body for not doing something unless that something was a contractual obligation. The legal term is misfeasance.

If I see someone being attacked in the middle of the street and I do nothing about it, that person cannot sue me for doing nothing. If however, I'm his bodyguard, then he can sue me for not carrying out part of my contract.

Same with County Councils - they do not have any kind of legal contract with the public to maintain the roads in this manner. Where they have been alerted to damage on a road, or where a road has been improperly laid or repaired, they are liable. But where a road becomes dangerous through environmental or other incidental conditions (such as normal wear and tear), you cannot sue.

Put simply, in order for you to be able to sue someone for negligence, you have to prove that they actually took an action which preceeded your loss. The council didn't put the snow on the road, so therefore they didn't do anything to cause the roads to become slippy.

Their inaction meant that the roads *continued* to be slippy, but that's not the same thing.

BostonB

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

There was no way they could grit the roads yesterday unless they did it before the snow came. Once the snow fell everybody paniced in a sky news style way. the entire city of Dublin all tried to leave their jobs around the same time. This was the time when there was snow and ice on the roads this caused traffic very slow moving traffic.

With this traffic on the roads how can anyone now get out to grit it?

We caused the problem yesterday by panicing not the government not Dublin city council not it was the peopel who were sat in traffic who caused the problem.

I don't agree. The problem was the snow fell on snow and ice that had not been cleared earlier. If they'd have gritted earlier, a bit of new snow wouldn'y have had the effect that it did. Its didn't start freezing again till 5 or 6.

I cleared a couple of drives and paths the previous night. While the new snow covered them it wasn't slippy because there was nothing underneath it.

Another problem with not clearing the roads, is that its going cause huge potholes which they won't be able to afford to fix. The Phoenix park already has lots of damage.

carveone

It's been quite irritating listening to people comparing the situation to other countries: "Wah, I was in Scotland and the roads were usable... etc etc.". There's quite a difference between the situation here and in colder countries. I lived in Ottawa, Canada for 4 years and saw 6 months of snow every year. You can walk on snow (assuming it's not too deep) and you can drive on snow. Hell, you can cycle on snow. I drove happily on snow roads that were not gritted and not ploughed, just packed down. I admit my car had good types and traction control but still...

The situation here is not snow, it's ice. I saw this type of weather - above 0 in the day, below at night for about 2-3 days a year in Ottawa and it always sucked, especially if it happened in the thaw where there was little snow left. A&E would suddenly fill with broken wrists and head injuries and there'd be fender benders from tailgaters. The roads would be slush city and the sidewalks would be skating rinks. People wouldn't go out at all, never mind go to work.

Personally I think the Dublin councils have been doing sterling service considering that we rarely see this type of ice lasting for a week. All they can do is clear the roads and they've been doing it really well. The media would be better served telling people how to grit the paths outside their house.

PS: "Who is to Blame!" screams the Herald this evening. Would that be God?!

mike65

carveone wrote: »

PS: "Who is to Blame!" screams the Herald this evening. Would that be God?!

I blame George Monbiot.

Buford T Justice

Jaysis, a little bit of snow and its a weather crisis. Next thing you'll be tellin me we're in financial crisis cos the banks fecked it all up for us....

Zwillinge

BennyLava wrote: »

'Storm Troopers -- Government bring in the Army ice-breakers'

If only That'd be quite cool!

carveone

BostonB wrote: »

I cleared a couple of drives and paths the previous night. While the new snow covered them it wasn't slippy because there was nothing underneath it.

Good job. That was the situation - snow covered the ice, slushed and refroze. I happily walked down to the shops from my place yesterday on the new snow. Once that snow got trodden down enough, it was back to dangerous slippiness.

Also: Would people for god's sake stop clearing their windscreens with water in the morning? a) You are chucking water on the ground outside your house in freezing weather creating a nice little ice pond for people to slip on. b) The clearing is temporary resulting in fogged screens once you get moving. Take the 5 mins to warm your car. c) if you use boiling water then you deserve the cracked windscreen...

Edit: and for those with cars, lift the wipers before you start the car. That way if they are iced to the windscreen (very likely) and you accidently hit the wiper button, you won't end up with stripped gears in your wiper motor.

veryangryman

mike65 wrote: »

I blame George Monbiot.

I blame Joe

BostonB

carveone wrote: »

Good job. That was the situation - snow covered the ice, slushed and refroze. I happily walked down to the shops from my place yesterday on the new snow. Once that snow got trodden down enough, it was back to dangerous slippiness.

Also: Would people for god's sake stop clearing their windscreens with water in the morning? a) You are chucking water on the ground outside your house in freezing weather creating a nice little ice pond for people to slip on. b) The clearing is temporary resulting in fogged screens once you get moving. Take the 5 mins to warm your car. c) if you use boiling water then you deserve the cracked windscreen...

Some muppet who parks on the pavement outside my house blocking it for everyone using it, has just poured loads of water over his car and driven off. That will be glass in seconds. People are so stupid.

People/shops/businesses should be made to clear the pavement outside their house.

The trick is not let it build up.

BostonB

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

They didn't let traffic build up, it happened it was unexpected.

So unexpected that that the entire capital city started to empty out around 3 to go home. In my office they were talking about leaving from about 11 or 12 when it first snowed.

It couldn't have been more expected to happen.