Which Computer Science course to pick (ck401, TR033,LM051)

tauruz_ie

Making It Bad wrote: »

More questions!

Looking through the modules it doesn't seem like there's really many high level languages thought, just Java. Don't see one mention of C++ , from examining the modules, while even the maths students have this as a module...

Also, do I get to learn any OpenGL in the course? There doesn't seem to be any mention in the modules. As I said I'd be interested in being a games developer and knowing OpenGL would be a huge advantage and I'd also find it quite interesting.

The UCC course also seems a little strange comparing it to other ones in the country as well as abroad. Most of the other courses seem to have some level of maths as a requirement (a good thing imo), UCC doesn't however. There also seem to be maths thought in the other courses, for example calculus is covered to some degree. I am also concerned by the fact the website, nor the prospects tells me what exactly I will be covering in first year (maybe some maths is thought, but it seems to be voluntary).

Ironically the webpage for CS is the worst laid out of all the courses I've looked at and they seem to be really hiding from you what you are covering in first year for some reason.

Also, why are the points for all the CS courses really low? I can't believe the demand is that low...

Basically times are a changing. CS doesnt really teach any high level languages yet it does and has taught me how to approach languages. CS used be a very popular course in ucc as such it was and still kinda is big enough to hold maybe 200 people per year...however since its not a very desirable course, don't know why i love it, the points have collapsed and are capped at the lowest ucc will go at 300. when i started in first year it was still a very tough course however over the last 2 years they are restructuring the course so im unaware really at how it is now in first year. Also originally you had to have an honors in higher level maths to get into CS but as the popularity of the course dropped they got rid of this yet still maintained the maths in the course. I dont know now what the maths modules are or if they exist but i think CS is so open if you wish to get involved in the maths of computing there are elective modules hope this helps

Making It Bad

tauruz_ie wrote: »

Basically times are a changing. CS doesnt really teach any high level languages yet it does and has taught me how to approach languages. CS used be a very popular course in ucc as such it was and still kinda is big enough to hold maybe 200 people per year...however since its not a very desirable course, don't know why i love it, the points have collapsed and are capped at the lowest ucc will go at 300. when i started in first year it was still a very tough course however over the last 2 years they are restructuring the course so im unaware really at how it is now in first year. Also originally you had to have an honors in higher level maths to get into CS but as the popularity of the course dropped they got rid of this yet still maintained the maths in the course. I dont know now what the maths modules are or if they exist but i think CS is so open if you wish to get involved in the maths of computing there are elective modules hope this helps

Cheers for the post, cleared up a bit. However, could someone elaborate on the bolded? I'd be very disappointed if I did CS and didn't really get to learn any high level languages.

tauruz_ie

Well this year I learnt C# as part of multimedia...we didnt learn it in class yet were assigned a project worth 10%...basically we were told we should know enough about languages to go off and learn one ourselves which is really what CS is about.

Making It Bad

tauruz_ie wrote: »

Well this year I learnt C# as part of multimedia...we didnt learn it in class yet were assigned a project worth 10%...basically we were told we should know enough about languages to go off and learn one ourselves which is really what CS is about.

That's fair enough I guess. So how much C++ have you actually done, if any?

tauruz_ie

none but once you learn c in second year any c language is pretty much the same just with more features

bunnyfox7

I'm a final year Computer Science student in UCC. I have loved the course from the start. I think 2nd year was by far the hardest year - seemed to have been lots of programming, and just lots of work in general. I did a 12 month internship and never regretted it for a second. The staff are really sound as well, I know I bitch about them the best of times, but it's like a little family! I would defo recommend the course anyway. It's different to BIS as there is FAR more coding involved, and really is very technical. The only practical work you do really is in lab work, but like you don't go building PC's or anything. That was something I used to do in jobs so I was well familiar with the workings of PC's before I did the course. Also, don't go into the course expecting to get an easy degree. It is a tough course, and by the time you get to final year, you feel so privileged to have gotten there! I guess like most courses, you sometimes wonder why you are taught certain modules, but at the end of the day, they always end up being applied somewhere! I have also met some of the best and nicest people through this course, and everyone in my class is sound out too, and I knew nobody when I first came to UCC.

Making It Bad wrote: »

Also, do I get to learn any OpenGL in the course? There doesn't seem to be any mention in the modules. As I said I'd be interested in being a games developer and knowing OpenGL would be a huge advantage and I'd also find it quite interesting.

Also, why are the points for all the CS courses really low? I can't believe the demand is that low...

OpenGL has been taught this year in the 4th year Graphics module. I'm not sure about the other years.

The points are low because I'm not so sure anyone really knows what's involved. Most people who drop out of CS usually do because they assumed the course was a basic computing degree that was easy to get... I assure you, this is not the case!

Master Bates

bunnyfox7 wrote: »

I'm a final year Computer Science student in UCC. I have loved the course from the start. I think 2nd year was by far the hardest year - seemed to have been lots of programming, and just lots of work in general. I did a 12 month internship and never regretted it for a second. The staff are really sound as well, I know I bitch about them the best of times, but it's like a little family! I would defo recommend the course anyway. It's different to BIS as there is FAR more coding involved, and really is very technical. The only practical work you do really is in lab work, but like you don't go building PC's or anything. That was something I used to do in jobs so I was well familiar with the workings of PC's before I did the course. Also, don't go into the course expecting to get an easy degree. It is a tough course, and by the time you get to final year, you feel so privileged to have gotten there! I guess like most courses, you sometimes wonder why you are taught certain modules, but at the end of the day, they always end up being applied somewhere! I have also met some of the best and nicest people through this course, and everyone in my class is sound out too, and I knew nobody when I first came to UCC.



OpenGL has been taught this year in the 4th year Graphics module. I'm not sure about the other years.

The points are low because I'm not so sure anyone really knows what's involved. Most people who drop out of CS usually do because they assumed the course was a basic computing degree that was easy to get... I assure you, this is not the case![/QUOTE]

This is not the case! It is one of the easiest programmes UCC has to offer.

The vast majority of people graduate with a 1H!!!!!!!!!!

Ri_Nollaig

Master Bates wrote: »

This is not the case! It is one of the easiest programmes UCC has to offer.
The vast majority of people graduate with a 1H!!!!!!!!!!

Really? and what are you basing this on?
I can tell out of my class of 40 (only 20 of which from the originial 120 back in 1st year) only about 10 got a 1H

bunnyfox7

Master Bates wrote: »

This is not the case! It is one of the easiest programmes UCC has to offer.

The vast majority of people graduate with a 1H!!!!!!!!!!

Which rock have you been lying under??!! No offence, but you have no idea what you are talking about. What course are you in yourself out of a matter of interest???

grenache

Computer Science is the generally recognised as one of the most difficult course in university. A friend told me Computer Systems has the highest drop out rate in UL with Computer Science close behind, so i'm sure the same must be true for UCC. I pulled out it in UCD, found it incredibly nauseating, you really need to have an interest in the technical side of computer operations to stick with it.

Webmonkey

Yeah, it's tough alright. This idea that it easy course is load of bollox.

My class went from 25 in first year to 4 in 4th year.

Master Bates

bunnyfox7 wrote: »

Which rock have you been lying under??!! No offence, but you have no idea what you are talking about. What course are you in yourself out of a matter of interest???

I'm doing a Phd in mind your own fookin' business!:pac:

Making It Bad

Heard from a reliable source today (not gonna name names) that CS has really been "dumbed down" lately due to high failure rates, doesn't sound all that appealing anymore tbh. He recommended that perhaps i'd be better considering doing physics/applied maths or a similar maths degree and specializing in CS at a later date.

Master Bates

I love that feeling of knowing you are right, and even more the feeling you have proved others wrong!

How do you like those apples, Bunnyfox?:pac:

Orizio

Master Bates wrote: »

I love that feeling of knowing you are right, and even more the feeling you have proved others wrong!

How do you like those apples, Bunnyfox?:pac:

Banned for trolling.

Back on topic.

jreanor

Thanks everyone for all the very helpful info.

grenache

Master Bates wrote: »

I love that feeling of knowing you are right, and even more the feeling you have proved others wrong!

How do you like those apples, Bunnyfox?:pac:

but you're not right dumbed down or not, it remains a highly difficult course with a high dropout rate.

Sepulchrave

Hello,

I am currently in 2nd year CS in UCC. We were the first year to take the new course that you describe as dumbed down.

I will start by saying that I believe about half our class (About 70 of us) failed the May exams in first year and had to repeat in August. Most of the class passed the repeats. However some people failed them and are repeating first year, and others dropped out or changed, now there are about 56 of us. The course is no walk in the park, and you certainly have to work at it and practise your skills by attending labs, doing assignments and so on.

First year I thought was easy enough, I did not fail any exams in May, however some parts were tedious due to factors I would rather not mention, those factors have been rectified this year and I believe the current first year loves the course.

As for programming languages, in the new course design, in first year you learn php, and you will also learn MySQL to go with it. You will also study some machine assembly language. Now in second year we are studying Java, did some more (but not much more) MySQL, and now studying even more machine assembly language. We are not studying any form of C. No python or anything else. It is somewhat dissapointing but I am still enjoying the course. 2nd year is giving us far more work than first year, and it is far more technical.

This course gives an overview of the whole field of computer science, if you only want to learn programming then this is not the course for you, you would be better off doing say the Software Development course in CIT.

Webmonkey

Sepulchrave wrote: »

This course gives an overview of the whole field of computer science, if you only want to learn programming then this is not the course for you, you would be better off doing say the Software Development course in CIT.

Just to point out that the courses in CIT are not only programming. As matter of fact there's a lot more, Software Engineering, Real time system, 3D graphics, Databases, Maths and Networking, Computer Architecture (Assembly etc).

If you are interested in electronics also, the Software Dev + Computer Networking courses goes into Telecommunications, Electronics and indepth networking. But it also has almost just the same amount of programming... C, C++, Java, OpenGL programming etc. There's a great deal more maths in this course.

It's all modularized now so you get a good choice.

samf

The course did change the year after ours, and it was done to curve the high failure rates, which in my opinion are due to the low points - you get students who have it as their 3rd/4th choice getting the course and have no real interest but expect an easy course and then when things get tough they all fail.

The main change as far as I know is that php is taught as the main programming language in 1st year, as opposed to java, which I think is then introduced in second year instead. This isnt necessarily a bad idea, php is a much easier language to understand as a base language and they have a very good lecturer teaching it too, and its better than starting with java on day 1.

Its like many technical courses, if you "get" the concepts early, and have an interest you'll find most of it quite easy and enjoyable, if you dont have an interest and dont understand the core concepts you'll struggle.

bunnyfox7

Master Bates wrote: »

I love that feeling of knowing you are right, and even more the feeling you have proved others wrong!

How do you like those apples, Bunnyfox?:pac:

:rolleyes: Oh dear! It's so clear who you are...

Anyway, the way I see Computer Science is like most courses, you either get it or you don't.

Ri_Nollaig

bunnyfox7 wrote: »

:rolleyes: Oh dear! It's so clear who you are...

Anyway, the way I see Computer Science is like most courses, you either get it or you don't.

check his other posts, clearly trolling in most of them... best to just ignore.

I dont see how changing the language from Java to php is meant to make it easier either, it (I assume now) will be teaching the principles of programming using that language and not just a course in php. Once you have basic concept of programming learning any new language is just a case of learning off the new syntax and features.
Php probably isnt a bad choice either, it allows you to get some output up and running very quickly but still has advance functions such OOP, which you should be able to translate then to a langauge like Java, C++ or C#. Still think it would be better to start off on C though...

Webmonkey

I don't think PHP is a good language to start with. It isn't strict and can turn you into a bad programmer and as a result you might struggle later with things such as data types etc present in most other languages.

We started with basic procedural C++ and then C and left java until third year which I thought was a good route to take. But then it depends on the person.

Jako8

So is there no C at all in the new course?

I'd be quite disappointed if this was the case because I have CK401 down as first choice on my CAO.

jpm4

samf wrote: »

The course did change the year after ours, and it was done to curve the high failure rates, which in my opinion are due to the low points - you get students who have it as their 3rd/4th choice getting the course and have no real interest but expect an easy course and then when things get tough they all fail.

I finished the course in 2004 when it was apparently harder than it is now and overall did not think it was difficult by any stretch of the imagination. I think the above quote is spot on - people throw it on their CAO somewhere and end up in the course by accident, or else they figure it will be fine cos they use a computer everyday for looking up Facebook or something. So people have no real interest in the course and I think that explains high drop outs more than the difficulty. If you can do a decent enough honours leaving cert and have an interest I honestly think the course is fine - having said that there is no doubt 2nd year is much tougher than 1st.

Making It Bad

Anyone got a link to the new CS modules?

Really disappointed now, I have this course down on my CAO as number one atm but will most likely be changing it do to these recent developments. I mean I don't want to learn a scripting language in first year instead of something much more fundamental like C.

Really bad move by the CS department. Now they will continue to get the poor souls who put CS down as their 4th+ choice while no longer getting the people who actually had an interest, knew what they were getting into and had potential. It's a joke, you don't see them dumbing down electrical engineering and that has the same problem as CS, with people putting it down because the points are low. I was, however, talking to a professor in electrical engineering the other day and he said instead of dumbing down their course, they're trying to really raise the quality of the education the students get. Even electrical engineering has C in first year but CS doesn't, that is pathetic! Perhaps I'm being a bit ignorant here but I can see employers interpreting UCC CS degree as a "watered down" CS now, as opposed to what it once was and to other degrees in the country.

Sorry for the rant, I'm just really disappointed as I was really looking forward to this course. The thought that I'd finally be studying something relevant and interesting soon was basically getting me through the drudge that is sixth year.

omahaid

We didn't have C in first yr in 2003 either and I did fine. I code primarily in assembly now

x43r0

Making It Bad wrote: »

Anyone got a link to the new CS modules?

Here ya go

Making It Bad wrote: »

Really disappointed now, I have this course down on my CAO as number one atm but will most likely be changing it do to these recent developments. I mean I don't want to learn a scripting language in first year instead of something much more fundamental like C.

Since I started the course (and before then at least a few years before) C was never taught in first year, and I would agree with that. Fair enough those "in the know" prior to entering the course may relish it but those on the fence who may stick at the course given the right encouragement would be completely scared off by C. We did it in second year and the majority of the class hated it, maybe that was down to the way it was taught, I don't know. I'm not qualified to make that assessment.

My class learned Java in first year and have done java ever since: 1 module in first year, 2 in second, 1 in third year and now in fourth year its used in the security module.

Making It Bad wrote: »

Really bad move by the CS department. Now they will continue to get the poor souls who put CS down as their 4th+ choice while no longer getting the people who actually had an interest, knew what they were getting into and had potential.

Students with an interest in computers will for the most part, always choose a CS course. That's just logic.

Lets say i'm an average student doing the leaving now and i'm set on doing CS in UCC. Someone in the course informs me how they've "dumbed down" the fresher year because too many were failing. I'd be over the f***ing moon. Now I get to do a course I think I will like and the odds on me doing well in it have just increased.

I'm sorry but I don't believe that the average student thinks about 'the devaluation of a degree program in recent years'. Maybe i'm being too critical of LC students but for the majority, the main distinction in a course's reputation & value will be whether its given by a Uni or an IT.

But well done to you on doing your homework. I sincerely mean that.

Making It Bad wrote: »

they're trying to really raise the quality of the education the students get.

Most of the lecturers in the CS department have ridiculous resumés. I won't name names for privacy sake but to think of a few: one worked in CERN alongside Tim-Berners Lee. Another was on the team that created Java, Another worked on security for the US government, Another is a consultant for Apple. The quality of education you'd get here is as good if not better than the other courses mentioned

Making It Bad wrote: »

Even electrical engineering has C in first year but CS doesn't, that is pathetic!

See above

Making It Bad wrote: »

Perhaps I'm being a bit ignorant here but I can see employers interpreting UCC CS degree as a "watered down" CS now, as opposed to what it once was and to other degrees in the country.

I think you are. Since its final year, I have been doing the job hunting thing and have schmoosed a lot of employers. The general consensus from those i've talked to/interviewed for is that a CS degree from a NUI institution is a great qualification and that employers don't see a huge difference between the different Uni's. As far as they see it, you have a degree from one of the NUI institutions, so you must know something.

Hell one or two even suggested that they wouldn't discriminate too much between second and first class honours graduates, and that they base hirings on a 50% academic and 50% personality basis. They don't want to work with a genius who happens to also be an insufferable pr**K.

Making It Bad wrote: »

Sorry for the rant, I'm just really disappointed as I was really looking forward to this course. The thought that I'd finally be studying something relevant and interesting soon was basically getting me through the drudge that is sixth year.

You should look forward to it. That is assuming you don't take it off your CAO. I think you are reading way to much into this. Leacing Certs students tend to over-analyse their choices, which is only natural; i know i did. You shouldn't take such a huge decision lightly but at the same time, relax.

At the end of the day if you do a CS degree at one of the big five universities and graduate with a respectable grade and some level of inter-personal skills then you will be flying.

Eliot Rosewater

Making It Bad wrote: »

Even electrical engineering has C in first year but CS doesn't, that is pathetic!

C in Elec Eng is an optional subject. In fact I'm in first year Maths Science and I'm doing the same Programming in C module that the Elec Eng people are doing. Theres about 80 - 100 people in Elec Eng over all but theres only about 20 in the C class asfaik.

I personally wouldn't be too worried about it. Programming is often a hobby. I learned HTML and CSS when I was 14/15 and PHP and JavaScript when I was 16/17. The Internet is an exceptional resource for programming in general. Theres no reason you couldn't do stuff on your own. Before I started Programming in C this year I actually acquired a C++ book first and worked at that. TBH If Im going for a job that wants that kinda thing (Programming is big in Maths) Ill stick down that I know PHP and C++ even though I don't have any official qualifications.


If you like programming/computers do the CS course. I know someone who did Maths Science last year because the points were higher, even though he was mad about computers. He dropped out and started CS this year. And I found out yesterday that a guy in my class this year has just dropped out so as to do CS next year.

Making It Bad

x43r0 wrote: »

Here ya go

Thank you for your post, very informative. But are you sure that's the modules which the students entering first year next year will be taking? It says "Book of modules 2009/2010". That was the one I was looking at originally which seemed good, but with people saying the course has changed I assumed that was the old book of modules.