Which Computer Science course to pick (ck401, TR033,LM051)

jreanor

I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the right section, so I apologize if I amn't.

I am currently a leaving cert student and am trying to make decisions regarding where I will study next year.

I am fully certain that I wish to take a Computer related degree but I have found it very difficult to determine the advantages of each of the courses I am considering.

At the moment I have narrowed it down to Computer Science in UCC(CK401), Computer Systems in UL(LM051), and Computer Science in Trinity(TR033). But I am very open to other suggestions.

I am fairly experienced with computers. I have built several PCs and dabbled in programming.

I have an equal interest in the content of each of the above courses and feel I would enjoy them equally.

Basically what I am asking is which course would be most attractive to future potential employers if I wish to be a software developer?

Thank you,
James

KnifeWRENCH

Well, since this is the UCC forum you may get some bias here!
But there are a good few CK401 students that lurk around here, so I'm sure they'll be able to answer specific questions on the course.

For more info on the courses in Trinity and UL, I'd suggest posting in their college forums (you'll find them in the Edu drop down menu.)

As for employment prospects, I have no idea. I'd imagine all three degrees would be more or less equally attractive to potential employers.

Jay P

I think you'd get a less-biased answer in one of the computer forums. No matter what college forum you post in, they're going to hype up their own course.

That said, UCC is the best college in Ireland...

Busyness

jreanor wrote: »

Basically what I am asking is which course would be most attractive to future potential employers if I wish to be a software developer?

Probably BIS - you won't go into the same level of programming but it's a very employable degree

jreanor

Busyness wrote: »

Probably BIS - you won't go into the same level of programming but it's a very employable degree

Thank you very much.

Would that limit me to working in business environment?

Animo

No it wouldn't. You'll have a wide range of options open to you. So you could go to just the business side of things, the programming or elsse a mixture of both.

I'm in first year atm and you do a mix of both programming and business subjects. We do 3 IS modules,2 accounting, stats, pyschology , economics and you have a choice of marketing and management.

A big advantage of the course is that in 3rd year you go on a 6 month work placement. You can go to loads of places - US, UK or stay in Ireland. This will put you ahead of many other potential employess for the job choices espcially looking at the current state of the economy.

liberal

jreanor wrote: »

I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the right section, so I apologize if I amn't.

I am currently a leaving cert student and am trying to make decisions regarding where I will study next year.

I am fully certain that I wish to take a Computer related degree but I have found it very difficult to determine the advantages of each of the courses I am considering.

At the moment I have narrowed it down to Computer Science in UCC(CK401), Computer Systems in UL(LM051), and Computer Science in Trinity(TR033). But I am very open to other suggestions.

I am fairly experienced with computers. I have built several PCs and dabbled in programming.

I have an equal interest in the content of each of the above courses and feel I would enjoy them equally.

Basically what I am asking is which course would be most attractive to future potential employers if I wish to be a software developer?

Thank you,
James

People may disagree with me but I'd consider the social issues as well, ie go where you have friends to go with

I'm asking a similar question about doing a postgrad and I've noticed that people talk up their own courses and make wild claims about the others

liberal

Busyness wrote: »

Probably BIS - you won't go into the same level of programming but it's a very employable degree

BIS is class, 6 months paid work experience, good talent and good employment...what more does one want!

Sid_Justice

Are you from Cork? If you are and want to save LOADS go to UCC. If you want to get away from parents and spend money on rent go to UL or Dublin.

x43r0

I'm in final year of Computer Science in UCC. I've enjoyed the course so far, although now that i'm nearly done I just want to get out and get to work!


The course isn't particularly taxing if you have a logical brain and have a good interest in Computers so you should do fine if you choose it.

Work placement in 3rd year is great too. You can do a 6 month or 12 month paid placement. Often, if you do well in work placement there is potential for re-hiring once you graduate. A few lads in my class have been offered jobs from placement.

Can I ask why you are set on being a software engineer? Its just a bit unusual for someone to have their minds made up at this stage

jreanor

Thanks everyone for your kind help. I dont feel BIS is for me. The business side could lose my interest quite easily.

liberal wrote: »

People may disagree with me but I'd consider the social issues as well, ie go where you have friends to go with

Yeah, I have thought of this aswell. I seems that I will roughly the same amount of friends in either Limerick or Cork.

Are you from Cork? If you are and want to save LOADS go to UCC. If you want to get away from parents and spend money on rent go to UL or Dublin.

Actually I'm from Clare so I dont really have the option of staying at home.

I'm in final year of Computer Science in UCC. I've enjoyed the course so far, although now that i'm nearly done I just want to get out and get to work!


The course isn't particularly taxing if you have a logical brain and have a good interest in Computers so you should do fine if you choose it.

Work placement in 3rd year is great too. You can do a 6 month or 12 month paid placement. Often, if you do well in work placement there is potential for re-hiring once you graduate. A few lads in my class have been offered jobs from placement.

Can I ask why you are set on being a software engineer? Its just a bit unusual for someone to have their minds made up at this stage

Thanks x43r0.
I want to become a software developer for a number of reasons. In transition year and the summer after I had the opportunity to work at a software company and I really enjoyed it... Also, I have done a good bit of programming and I love it!
I may change my mind in the future but I am certain that I want something computer(but probably not hardware) related.


Does anybody know which of the courses I mentioned above is most highly regarded in the industry?

yo!its_yoyo

Basically if you do computer science your job will be in programming.
Would this be right? Or is there more to it than this?

jreanor

yo!its_yoyo wrote: »

Basically if you do computer science your job will be in programming.
Would this be right? Or is there more to it than this?

Yep programming is my main interest.

yo!its_yoyo

whoops! no I am asking people that have/are doing computer science. Will the job you get after be all programming? Or is there alot more variety than this?

Webmonkey

jreanor, don't go with BIS if you are definite about becoming a programmer.

I've noticed you didn't list any ITs? - any reason why? - the computing courses in ITs are quite good as you get more hands on/labs than lecturers which employers seem to like.

samf

Busyness wrote: »

Probably BIS - you won't go into the same level of programming but it's a very employable degree

Tell that to my 2 unemployed housemates who graduated from BIS in UCC last year. I knew a lot of people who graduated and only know one who walked into a job and that was because of the work placement. Its not such an employable degree in times like these when companies need programmers and businness professionals, not half and half.

Ricky91t

Just a word of warning,I'd look very carefully at the "extra" modules...I chose Italian and I'm now stuck doing the most hideous subject for a year and If I get below 30% in it I won't be able to progress to second year,Even if I got 100% in all the Computer Science modules..Chose wisely!

Busyness

samf wrote: »

Tell that to my 2 unemployed housemates who graduated from BIS in UCC last year.

It's a recession pal!

If you're passionate about computers then you should do CS, like someone mentioned it might be worth checking out the ITs. If possible try sit in a few first year lectures in college to see if it's really what you want. If you enjoy what you're studying it will make the world of difference in college.

jpm4

I graduated from the UCC 401 course about 5 years ago....it's probably changed a lot since then, and even though I enjoyed it I would have to say I don't it was at the time considered the best CS course around. The one in Cork CIT was often thought to be better. But of course you might want the social side of a university rather than an IT.

Whatever course you pick the work experience part is very important, and whatever work experience you do could play a big part in what you do after college.

Also, even if you do a computer science course you won't necessarily end up as a programmer. Am currently an analyst in AIB.

Best of luck.

Shatner

Busyness wrote: »

It's a recession pal!

If you're passionate about computers then you should do CS, like someone mentioned it might be worth checking out the ITs. If possible try sit in a few first year lectures in college to see if it's really what you want. If you enjoy what you're studying it will make the world of difference in college.

A lot of big firms (the big consultancy shops, investment banks in the UK) do not hire from IT's as they do not trust the grade standards there.

They are starting to mistrust the grades given out in universities, now, too but that's another story.

If I was to choose between the same course in a Uni and an IT, I would choose the Uni every time (and not just for social reasons). TCD is ranked in the top 50 in the world. IT's are not ranked.

jreanor

Thanks for all your help. I really appreciate it.

If I am interested in low level programing...would it be more suitable to do a course such as Computer Engineering in UL, as opposed to computer Science?

I dont really have a reason for not looking at the ITs...I geniunely have no idea which course is considered better so I assumed(Possibly wrongly) that Universities would be

Shatner

jreanor wrote: »

Thanks for all your help. I really appreciate it.

If I am interested in low level programing...would it be more suitable to do a course such as Computer Engineering in UL, as opposed to computer Science?

I dont really have a reason for not looking at the ITs...I geniunely have no idea which course is considered better so I assumed(Possibly wrongly) that Universities would be

I would suggest you travel back to the 1940's if that is the case

Webmonkey

Shatner wrote: »

I would suggest you travel back to the 1940's if that is the case

Low level program is an on going area in embedded systems, real time systems etc... You don't have to go back there, it's happening right now

Sid_Justice

There are courses in Carlow IT and Athlone IT (perhaps others) more geared towards becoming a Software developer. Having said that, I agree that it's generally better to go for a Uni over an IT. Depends on the person, you may be suited to an IT (or a Uni).

You can study Computer Science/Computer Engineering/Computer Systems and still become a Software Developer. If you're very keen on software development, I think the CS are best suited.

I think most CS courses teach C and Assembly in some form (if that's what you mean by low level languages).

Ri_Nollaig

I graduated 2 years ago and got a Java Development job in Dublin handy enough, ofcourse its a very different story now.

If you are more interested in programming and the theory side of computers then computer science is different a better option then BIS. You wont be doing any "building computers" or the like, not much elec eng either (if at all now) probably just the basic logic gates. Instead it focuses on programming (app and web), middleware, networking, security, database, AI and a good few other modules. Probably need to check the web site to see the latest as they do add/remove modules depending on their popularity.

Of the different colleges, I can't obviously say but I'd imagine they should all cover more or less the same thing. UCC does have a new IT building though should be nice (if it has dried out by now)

Making It Bad

(Slight hijack of thread but it's CAO time!)

I am also considering putting down ck401 as my number 1 but am undecided. I am wondering if i'd be better suited to a broader physics degree. I have a huge interest in computers and have done very smalls amounts of programming (Python etc.), which I found very enjoyable, however I'm also very interested in hardware side of things.

I really enjoy taking computer apart and learning about how things like semiconductors. Looking at ck401 there doesn't seem to be much of this in the course (maybe I'm wrong?). I am wondering if a broader degree like ck408 (physics and astrophysics) would be a better option? It seems to cover some programming (C/C++) as well as the more physical side of computers.

So what do you think? I'm probably gonna end up pursuing something like programming as a career, however would also be interested in games development also. I have looked at various developer's websites and developing physics for the game (using Havok etc.) seeming favoured a physics degree over a computer science degree.

Ri_Nollaig

Making It Bad wrote: »

I have looked at various developer's websites and developing physics for the game (using Havok etc.) seeming favoured a physics degree over a computer science degree.

I dunno if Havok would actually favour a physics degree over a CS, if anything they would probably perfer a Maths degree. Havok's physics engine is more of a "make it look like the real thing" rather then an actual physics model, afterall its for games, it doesn't need to be exact.

I've obviously done the CS degree, but ive friends who have done Physics, Maths and Elec Eng (even someone who tried the physics and astrophyiscs).
If you soley after programming then CS is the best option. Programming would be covered in Maths/Physics/Elec Eng but not to the same level and wouldn't go into areas such as software engineering or atleast I dont think it does.
If you after trying to phyiscally create a computer from a few wires and PCB board then it would be Elec Eng but there is a lot more to it then that.
To be honest they are all quite board degrees, espeacially Maths and Physics and going down any IT road I doubt any would hold you back.

If you trying to head down the road for game development then CS is probably the better option. However I doubt Maths, Physics or Elec Eng would mean you couldn't either.
So to answer your question, ...I can't and I don't think anyone really can (unless that have done all those different courses).
But if you have any questions an what to expect from CS and where you could go from it then fire ahead.

tauruz_ie

If ya wanna do programming my advice would be CS in UCC over BIS. CS actually covers the languages and the ideas behind them where as anything i've seen from BIS students is kinda comical as in learn this code off and use it rather than understand it or create your own. I went into CS pursuing programming, lost interest in programming and still have plenty of options open. Its one of the few courses in UCC that offers 12 month placement which i've acquired so basically when I graduated I'll already have a years work done in the industry which will make more desirable. Also if interested in games dev multimedia in 3rd year covers this in a throw you in at the deep end kinda way but you'll come out the end with a game under your belt

Making It Bad

So what does the hardware side of CS in UCC entail? I heard from a few years back that the department is really strapped for cash and thus the hardware side of things took a hit, any truth to this?

Edit: sorry, read Ri Nollaig's post from a bit up. Maybe i'd be better off in elec engineering...

Ri_Nollaig

Making It Bad wrote: »

So what does the hardware side of CS in UCC entail? I heard from a few years back that the department is really strapped for cash and thus the hardware side of things took a hit, any truth to this?

Edit: sorry, read Ri Nollaig's post from a bit up. Maybe i'd be better off in elec engineering...

UCC in general is strapped for Cash...
There wasn't ever any practical side to the hardware, only basic theory in first year (logic gates and the like), making a few basic things like adders and again in 4th year there was a few hardware based modules, even then it was only ever done on a simulator and never actually soldered together (if thats what you are after). May have changed since but I'd doubt it.
Elec Eng would go into this with a lot more detail but would be covering the Maths behind it aswell so you really need to be very strong at Maths, approaching A1 higher-level to be honest.

Making It Bad

More questions!

Looking through the modules it doesn't seem like there's really many high level languages thought, just Java. Don't see one mention of C++ , from examining the modules, while even the maths students have this as a module...

Also, do I get to learn any OpenGL in the course? There doesn't seem to be any mention in the modules. As I said I'd be interested in being a games developer and knowing OpenGL would be a huge advantage and I'd also find it quite interesting.

The UCC course also seems a little strange comparing it to other ones in the country as well as abroad. Most of the other courses seem to have some level of maths as a requirement (a good thing imo), UCC doesn't however. There also seem to be maths thought in the other courses, for example calculus is covered to some degree. I am also concerned by the fact the website, nor the prospects tells me what exactly I will be covering in first year (maybe some maths is thought, but it seems to be voluntary).

Ironically the webpage for CS is the worst laid out of all the courses I've looked at and they seem to be really hiding from you what you are covering in first year for some reason.

Also, why are the points for all the CS courses really low? I can't believe the demand is that low...

tauruz_ie

Making It Bad wrote: »

More questions!

Looking through the modules it doesn't seem like there's really many high level languages thought, just Java. Don't see one mention of C++ , from examining the modules, while even the maths students have this as a module...

Also, do I get to learn any OpenGL in the course? There doesn't seem to be any mention in the modules. As I said I'd be interested in being a games developer and knowing OpenGL would be a huge advantage and I'd also find it quite interesting.

The UCC course also seems a little strange comparing it to other ones in the country as well as abroad. Most of the other courses seem to have some level of maths as a requirement (a good thing imo), UCC doesn't however. There also seem to be maths thought in the other courses, for example calculus is covered to some degree. I am also concerned by the fact the website, nor the prospects tells me what exactly I will be covering in first year (maybe some maths is thought, but it seems to be voluntary).

Ironically the webpage for CS is the worst laid out of all the courses I've looked at and they seem to be really hiding from you what you are covering in first year for some reason.

Also, why are the points for all the CS courses really low? I can't believe the demand is that low...

Basically times are a changing. CS doesnt really teach any high level languages yet it does and has taught me how to approach languages. CS used be a very popular course in ucc as such it was and still kinda is big enough to hold maybe 200 people per year...however since its not a very desirable course, don't know why i love it, the points have collapsed and are capped at the lowest ucc will go at 300. when i started in first year it was still a very tough course however over the last 2 years they are restructuring the course so im unaware really at how it is now in first year. Also originally you had to have an honors in higher level maths to get into CS but as the popularity of the course dropped they got rid of this yet still maintained the maths in the course. I dont know now what the maths modules are or if they exist but i think CS is so open if you wish to get involved in the maths of computing there are elective modules hope this helps

Making It Bad

tauruz_ie wrote: »

Basically times are a changing. CS doesnt really teach any high level languages yet it does and has taught me how to approach languages. CS used be a very popular course in ucc as such it was and still kinda is big enough to hold maybe 200 people per year...however since its not a very desirable course, don't know why i love it, the points have collapsed and are capped at the lowest ucc will go at 300. when i started in first year it was still a very tough course however over the last 2 years they are restructuring the course so im unaware really at how it is now in first year. Also originally you had to have an honors in higher level maths to get into CS but as the popularity of the course dropped they got rid of this yet still maintained the maths in the course. I dont know now what the maths modules are or if they exist but i think CS is so open if you wish to get involved in the maths of computing there are elective modules hope this helps

Cheers for the post, cleared up a bit. However, could someone elaborate on the bolded? I'd be very disappointed if I did CS and didn't really get to learn any high level languages.

tauruz_ie

Well this year I learnt C# as part of multimedia...we didnt learn it in class yet were assigned a project worth 10%...basically we were told we should know enough about languages to go off and learn one ourselves which is really what CS is about.

Making It Bad

tauruz_ie wrote: »

Well this year I learnt C# as part of multimedia...we didnt learn it in class yet were assigned a project worth 10%...basically we were told we should know enough about languages to go off and learn one ourselves which is really what CS is about.

That's fair enough I guess. So how much C++ have you actually done, if any?

tauruz_ie

none but once you learn c in second year any c language is pretty much the same just with more features

bunnyfox7

I'm a final year Computer Science student in UCC. I have loved the course from the start. I think 2nd year was by far the hardest year - seemed to have been lots of programming, and just lots of work in general. I did a 12 month internship and never regretted it for a second. The staff are really sound as well, I know I bitch about them the best of times, but it's like a little family! I would defo recommend the course anyway. It's different to BIS as there is FAR more coding involved, and really is very technical. The only practical work you do really is in lab work, but like you don't go building PC's or anything. That was something I used to do in jobs so I was well familiar with the workings of PC's before I did the course. Also, don't go into the course expecting to get an easy degree. It is a tough course, and by the time you get to final year, you feel so privileged to have gotten there! I guess like most courses, you sometimes wonder why you are taught certain modules, but at the end of the day, they always end up being applied somewhere! I have also met some of the best and nicest people through this course, and everyone in my class is sound out too, and I knew nobody when I first came to UCC.

Making It Bad wrote: »

Also, do I get to learn any OpenGL in the course? There doesn't seem to be any mention in the modules. As I said I'd be interested in being a games developer and knowing OpenGL would be a huge advantage and I'd also find it quite interesting.

Also, why are the points for all the CS courses really low? I can't believe the demand is that low...

OpenGL has been taught this year in the 4th year Graphics module. I'm not sure about the other years.

The points are low because I'm not so sure anyone really knows what's involved. Most people who drop out of CS usually do because they assumed the course was a basic computing degree that was easy to get... I assure you, this is not the case!

Master Bates

bunnyfox7 wrote: »

I'm a final year Computer Science student in UCC. I have loved the course from the start. I think 2nd year was by far the hardest year - seemed to have been lots of programming, and just lots of work in general. I did a 12 month internship and never regretted it for a second. The staff are really sound as well, I know I bitch about them the best of times, but it's like a little family! I would defo recommend the course anyway. It's different to BIS as there is FAR more coding involved, and really is very technical. The only practical work you do really is in lab work, but like you don't go building PC's or anything. That was something I used to do in jobs so I was well familiar with the workings of PC's before I did the course. Also, don't go into the course expecting to get an easy degree. It is a tough course, and by the time you get to final year, you feel so privileged to have gotten there! I guess like most courses, you sometimes wonder why you are taught certain modules, but at the end of the day, they always end up being applied somewhere! I have also met some of the best and nicest people through this course, and everyone in my class is sound out too, and I knew nobody when I first came to UCC.



OpenGL has been taught this year in the 4th year Graphics module. I'm not sure about the other years.

The points are low because I'm not so sure anyone really knows what's involved. Most people who drop out of CS usually do because they assumed the course was a basic computing degree that was easy to get... I assure you, this is not the case![/QUOTE]

This is not the case! It is one of the easiest programmes UCC has to offer.

The vast majority of people graduate with a 1H!!!!!!!!!!

Ri_Nollaig

Master Bates wrote: »

This is not the case! It is one of the easiest programmes UCC has to offer.
The vast majority of people graduate with a 1H!!!!!!!!!!

Really? and what are you basing this on?
I can tell out of my class of 40 (only 20 of which from the originial 120 back in 1st year) only about 10 got a 1H

bunnyfox7

Master Bates wrote: »

This is not the case! It is one of the easiest programmes UCC has to offer.

The vast majority of people graduate with a 1H!!!!!!!!!!

Which rock have you been lying under??!! No offence, but you have no idea what you are talking about. What course are you in yourself out of a matter of interest???

grenache

Computer Science is the generally recognised as one of the most difficult course in university. A friend told me Computer Systems has the highest drop out rate in UL with Computer Science close behind, so i'm sure the same must be true for UCC. I pulled out it in UCD, found it incredibly nauseating, you really need to have an interest in the technical side of computer operations to stick with it.

Webmonkey

Yeah, it's tough alright. This idea that it easy course is load of bollox.

My class went from 25 in first year to 4 in 4th year.

Master Bates

bunnyfox7 wrote: »

Which rock have you been lying under??!! No offence, but you have no idea what you are talking about. What course are you in yourself out of a matter of interest???

I'm doing a Phd in mind your own fookin' business!:pac:

Making It Bad

Heard from a reliable source today (not gonna name names) that CS has really been "dumbed down" lately due to high failure rates, doesn't sound all that appealing anymore tbh. He recommended that perhaps i'd be better considering doing physics/applied maths or a similar maths degree and specializing in CS at a later date.

Master Bates

I love that feeling of knowing you are right, and even more the feeling you have proved others wrong!

How do you like those apples, Bunnyfox?:pac:

Orizio

Master Bates wrote: »

I love that feeling of knowing you are right, and even more the feeling you have proved others wrong!

How do you like those apples, Bunnyfox?:pac:

Banned for trolling.

Back on topic.

jreanor

Thanks everyone for all the very helpful info.

grenache

Master Bates wrote: »

I love that feeling of knowing you are right, and even more the feeling you have proved others wrong!

How do you like those apples, Bunnyfox?:pac:

but you're not right dumbed down or not, it remains a highly difficult course with a high dropout rate.

Sepulchrave

Hello,

I am currently in 2nd year CS in UCC. We were the first year to take the new course that you describe as dumbed down.

I will start by saying that I believe about half our class (About 70 of us) failed the May exams in first year and had to repeat in August. Most of the class passed the repeats. However some people failed them and are repeating first year, and others dropped out or changed, now there are about 56 of us. The course is no walk in the park, and you certainly have to work at it and practise your skills by attending labs, doing assignments and so on.

First year I thought was easy enough, I did not fail any exams in May, however some parts were tedious due to factors I would rather not mention, those factors have been rectified this year and I believe the current first year loves the course.

As for programming languages, in the new course design, in first year you learn php, and you will also learn MySQL to go with it. You will also study some machine assembly language. Now in second year we are studying Java, did some more (but not much more) MySQL, and now studying even more machine assembly language. We are not studying any form of C. No python or anything else. It is somewhat dissapointing but I am still enjoying the course. 2nd year is giving us far more work than first year, and it is far more technical.

This course gives an overview of the whole field of computer science, if you only want to learn programming then this is not the course for you, you would be better off doing say the Software Development course in CIT.

Webmonkey

Sepulchrave wrote: »

This course gives an overview of the whole field of computer science, if you only want to learn programming then this is not the course for you, you would be better off doing say the Software Development course in CIT.

Just to point out that the courses in CIT are not only programming. As matter of fact there's a lot more, Software Engineering, Real time system, 3D graphics, Databases, Maths and Networking, Computer Architecture (Assembly etc).

If you are interested in electronics also, the Software Dev + Computer Networking courses goes into Telecommunications, Electronics and indepth networking. But it also has almost just the same amount of programming... C, C++, Java, OpenGL programming etc. There's a great deal more maths in this course.

It's all modularized now so you get a good choice.

samf

The course did change the year after ours, and it was done to curve the high failure rates, which in my opinion are due to the low points - you get students who have it as their 3rd/4th choice getting the course and have no real interest but expect an easy course and then when things get tough they all fail.

The main change as far as I know is that php is taught as the main programming language in 1st year, as opposed to java, which I think is then introduced in second year instead. This isnt necessarily a bad idea, php is a much easier language to understand as a base language and they have a very good lecturer teaching it too, and its better than starting with java on day 1.

Its like many technical courses, if you "get" the concepts early, and have an interest you'll find most of it quite easy and enjoyable, if you dont have an interest and dont understand the core concepts you'll struggle.