GearScore

TheDoc

Literally THE debate topic of trade at the mo on Outland.

Has crept in last two-three weeks and its very much becoming the main requirement along with achievements. Evidently due to the rate at which people are buying T9 ( took me 2 days, also got trinkets etc)

So whats the verdict, its not an accurate display by any stretch of the imagination, but is it really " ruining the game?"

The emotion on my server over gearscore is unreal, I'm personally at 5.2k and am no way a great player, yet my GS indicates I would be, and I'm having no problem getting into raids, where I've literally no idea what I'm doing.

Magaa

i find that people dont read the thing on gearscore addon it says the persons gear level not skill

skill is more important that gear IMO

Magill

Its good for pugs i guess, i know i'd rather take some with a gs of 5300 than some with 4000. Not because i know hes a better player, but that its more likely that his dps/healing/tanking will be better

Kyri

Sorry to sound like a noob but was wondering where they where getting the gear scores - Is it an addon or are they using sites like Be.Imba or Wow Heroes to get the figures?

Again sorry for being nooby but anyone that has been asking for a certain score has still taken me or my alts cos they are geared well but was always wondering they where waffling about in trade when looking for more lol.

Nemesis

I noticed this gear score been shouted out in general chat too on Outland.

I just returned to the game after a year and decided to level up my rogue Glaskopft.

It's like getting back up onto the bike your fingers still remember the moves

I'm only level 73 and enjoying the dungeon finder a lot.(Also have a 80 DK)

How you buy T9? Honour and arena? I'm only back playing 2 days now.

I would hate to think I'd be refused PUG's based on gear rather than DPS+knowledge of encounters.

Not that I have any notion of boss encounter right now .

Glaskopft.

2 Espressi

Kyri wrote: »

Sorry to sound like a noob but was wondering where they where getting the gear scores - Is it an addon?

Yeah, it's a little addon, when you mouseover a char is shows it along with the other info. Recount also has an option to display the GS of your party members.

It's useful to see who's taking care of their gear, though I reckon we could see it being used as an "upgrade by numbers" tool in the future.

A lot of the better caster gear is still cloth or leather at my level, so upgrading to increase SP (for example) doesn't automatically increase GS.

Magill

2 Espressi wrote: »

Yeah, it's a little addon, when you mouseover a char is shows it along with the other info. Recount also has an option to display the GS of your party members.

It's useful to see who's taking care of their gear, though I reckon we could see it being used as an "upgrade by numbers" tool in the future.

A lot of the better caster gear is still cloth or leather at my level, so upgrading to increase SP (for example) doesn't automatically increase GS.

GS is actually based on itemlvl, doesnt matter if its cloth/leather/mail.

The thing is, there is no way in telling if a player is good/bad/ knows tacs/ doesnt know tacs from a pug leaders pov. So the only real way to judge a players knowledge/skill is too look at there gear, i'd usually also look at the guild of the player and gems/spec/enchants aswel.

Ivan

The problem I would have is that ilvl is totally misleading. I mean, the potential is there for a raid leader to look at a tank's gear in ilvl 232 mail and thinking this is a solid player.

Obviously, extremes like that will almost never happen but what about paladins stacking good ilvl gear that just has a bunch of AP on it. Forget whether it shows skill or not, it shows a complete misunderstanding of the class and that player could well be out dps'd by a blue geared paladin.

Still, as WoW has gotten more casual/noob friendly people have been forced to create measurement systems to check if a player is any good or not. The alternative is spending an hour forming a pug only to wipe on the first trash and the raid disbands pretty rapidly.

Now, if people kicked players based on their performance in the raid and looked for a replacement instead, I think all of these problems would be fixed

TheDoc

So we can mostly agree that its not an accurate reflection on skill which its not...

But my point is, its literally required for any raid you want to go on now on Outland. All the top pug organisers use it and want over 5k, fine for me, but I'm pugging with quality players, so stupidly above my level its not even funny.

I guess I'm just getting the benefits

elexes

i had to get rid of my i245 hat for a i 23x one and now people wont take me on raids . warlock trinkets are still brutal with nax ones still being very good

Nehaxak

Just run a raid pug yourself, the way you want, without asking for peoples gearscores.

Am I right in saying that gearscore also does not count enchants nor gems into it's calculations ? At least the version I have installed doesn't anyway.

I think gearscore is good in one way in that it will whittle out chancers who haven't even bothered to make an effort to upgrade their gear but you cannot just depend on that for a pug, if you really wanted you'd need to check the person to make sure they've bothered to gem and enchant their gear at least.

EDIT: ...but of course, as others have inclined, it all means nothing if they haven't the skill to play their class, which these days has a higher chance of just being a boosted alt.

TheDoc

Rankwatch
Gearscore
Achievements


If I'm running a pug, I'm doing it so I get my badges and loot, and for my friends and guildies.

I'm not carrying people. I have little problem with carrying someone that tries, as I myself have been carried so much.

But I think its just a joke that theres people walking into heroics with fresh dings.

When I hit 80 on my warlock I had to run the normal instances to get hit gear to be softcapped, then run heroics.

People are running heroics now with no idea of hitcap and GS under 2k which is a joke. They put out around 700dps, and the vote to kick just doesnt work fast enough.

There is a large portion of people who feel they can raid with their new alts because they have some purples, not realising a resto druid has a haste cap that should be gotten close too, that dps classes have hit caps that MUST be reached, and that tanks have caps also.

I'm going to whittle out chancers, with the three mentioned above, and a gear inspection beforehand.

I'd rather wait and spend 30 mins extra, do these steps, and ensure I have a capable group, then get a group in 5 mins and spend 40 mins whiping.


If people made honest assesments about themselves and their capabilities, understood their class and read their requirements, there would be no need for this requirement by RL's.

But because of the circumstances of bull****ters and the likes, its a neccesesity.


And just because you have a level 80 dps, doesnt mean you have a got giving right to come on my pugs with a healing or tank class

nix

heh, i find it funny people can still complain about not getting into raids/pugs within what would used to be considered pissing time in comparison to old raiding, seeing raid content in this day and age is a cake walk compared to the effort most used to have to go through :P

pugging raids back in tbc was non existent on my server, for the new stuff anyway

TheDoc

nix wrote: »

heh, i find it funny people can still complain about not getting into raids/pugs within what would used to be considered pissing time in comparison to old raiding, seeing raid content in this day and age is a cake walk compared to the effort most used to have to go through :P

pugging raids back in tbc was non existent on my server, for the new stuff anyway

More nostalgia :rolleyes:

Playing my new resto druid, it is a pain getting into pugs since I don't have achievements and my Gs isn't over 5k yet, and I don't like using "fakeachiever"

And considering the amount of pugs that still fail on ****, its clearly not a walk in the park...

copeyhagen

TheDoc wrote: »

More nostalgia :rolleyes:

it isnt what it used to be

dont like this egarscore ****e, my hunter puts out about 5k singhle target dps and is almost entirely in 245 gear (havent been to icc)

his gearscore is only about 4700 i think but hes a great dpsr

this "minimum 5000 gearscore" ****e i dont like!!

TheDoc

copeyhagen wrote: »

it isnt what it used to be

dont like this egarscore ****e, my hunter puts out about 5k singhle target dps and is almost entirely in 245 gear (havent been to icc)

his gearscore is only about 4700 i think but hes a great dpsr

this "minimum 5000 gearscore" ****e i dont like!!

Its a pug, and it helps raid leaders be more safe and confident.

I'll take someones gearscore over their "word"

Because 9.9% of wow players completely over exagerate their dps, ability, and how epic they are.

DRakE

how do you find your gearscore? i wonder what my character i stopped playing 4 months ago is like

TheDoc

DRakE wrote: »

how do you find your gearscore? i wonder what my character i stopped playing 4 months ago is like

install a mod called gearscore lite

2 Espressi

Or check the wowhead profiler, e.g. http://www.wowhead.com/?profile=eu.terokkar.shamanhattan

Displays total GS for on the right under quick facts, and lists the score for each individual item below.

While we're on the subject, and this might seem daft, but is there an average GS per level I should be going for while levelling?

313/53=5.9, is this good, bad, or meaningless?

Scram

well i think it sucks, it takes all the fun out of pugs and even pvp. Gone are the days when you could come along on a raid if your gear wasnt great, now you have to be a certain gearscore and have ****ing achievements.

Its ruining the game if you ask me and it should be optional or something. Oh look theres somebody with a lower GS than mine...screw them.

Wow has so many eliteist assholes its just such a pain at times. I like play it as a game and not a ****ing life.

Sure GS has its uses in showing the people with he highest score probably spent the most time in wow and not outside:p

Nemesis

What achievments are they looking for? Ultimate triage perhaps?.

][cEMAN**

Scram wrote: »

Wow has so many eliteist assholes its just such a pain at times. I like play it as a game and not a ****ing life.

Sure GS has its uses in showing the people with he highest score probably spent the most time in wow and not outside:p

I posted a thread (that you also replied in "Getting Vash down was one the best moments in wow for me and the other dude in neterstorm.") explaining just how easy it is to get a high enough level of gear these days. I did it with 1-2 days of grinding. If you enjoy playing the game you'll likely spend more than 1-2hrs a week playing, and should be able to gear quickly enough.

The thing is, when you start going down the road of "they have more stuff than me in wow, I must be better at real life than them", you really only add to the elitist asshole population of the world.....only it's not of warcraft. Real life isn't a game, and you're not winning any more than the next guy.

So if you're going to play, consider the sake of a little time spent getting some incredibly easily aquired gear, and bask in your remaining gametime free of people complaining your gear is too crap to have you in their group.

DRakE

TheDoc wrote: »

install a mod called gearscore lite

dont have the game installed anymore

Kiith

DRakE wrote: »

dont have the game installed anymore

Smartest thing i've heard you say in a long time :P

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Ivan wrote: »

.

Now, if people kicked players based on their performance in the raid and looked for a replacement instead, I think all of these problems would be fixed

That's exactly what I do every time I lead a pug raid. I just invite those who have a good knowledge of the raid instance. I took a green/blue geared hunter to Naxx 25 and people complained. He kicked ass... he wasn't top or anything, but he done some impressive DPS. Normally it doesn't matter who we take because we will have some good friends with very good gear, so you can take a few rubbish DPS and it's not a problem. It's only fair for people to get the chance to show their skill and not make a raid group out of ilvl 245 gear because that's not a guarantee. Same with achievements.

TheDoc

Saige Tiny Smart-ass wrote: »

That's exactly what I do every time I lead a pug raid. I just invite those who have a good knowledge of the raid instance. I took a green/blue geared hunter to Naxx 25 and people complained. He kicked ass... he wasn't top or anything, but he done some impressive DPS. Normally it doesn't matter who we take because we will have some good friends with very good gear, so you can take a few rubbish DPS and it's not a problem. It's only fair for people to get the chance to show their skill and not make a raid group out of ilvl 245 gear because that's not a guarantee. Same with achievements.

The point is, people with the higher gear, have run the higher instances, therefore " should" have a better grasp on the encounters.

Of course this isnt true, people get carried etc. But when your inviting 24 strangers, you want every bit of help to let you know they will be ok.

Usually after the first boss you have an idea what someones like in relation to dps, hps etc. If you killed the boss handy enough, just give the slackers a little word to pick it up, and continue.

Take ToC for example. Heres how I would run my ToC10 weekly pug.

I want a GS of atleast 4300.
I want a minimum of 4/5 for achievements.
I want to see gear enchanted and gemmed correctly, and make sure theres no pvp gear in there.

Tick these three boxes I'm happy. It takes longer to assemble raids but they are usually fine. Granted my last few pugs have been a bit weak because I have taken guildies who were totally undergeared in the hope of carrying them, thats different. They are guildies.

Friends and guild mates I'd briing to anything.

However, randomers are randomers, not friends, once of acquaintances.

And for that one time they need to do a job, and whats wrong with using every tool available to try help you make the decision of wether they can do that job.

The comments that GS is for " retards" its "****" and its ruining the game is ridiculous and comments made by remos.

No one is claiming its an accurate detail of skill, its simply an aid.

The amount of people that talk out of their arse, who come up to you in **** blue and say " **** you ill do 4k dps" is unreal. And you hear it too here " **** GS I could tank toc in blues" well actually no you ****ing cant.

Those that are whining about GS are those that arnt meeting the requirements, and if its so gay, just run your own pug, with your own rules

padraigggg

WoWHead.com's profile sheets includes a score that accounts for Gems & Enchants.


I don't care if a party/raid member has a high gear score. I review invited members for Enchants & Gems, and view that as the 'new' measure of proper playing. Most too-casual players will leave off enchants or won't socket gems & more than 2 of these offenses is enough for me to kick someone.

My theory is that if you are conscious enough to gem & enchant (and at least try to do it properly, ie, I shouldn't see a bunch of spellpower on a Ret or Prot Pally), then I'm guessing you took the time to at least look over the fights, or will listen when they are explained.

TheDoc

When I first gemmed my gear and enchanted it...couple of irish lads told me to do it, and what to do.

They didnt tell me why, or any options, just said " This is what you need to do, do it"

Had no reflection on anything, other then my stats went up.

However when I started reading

Elitistjerks
mmo-champion.com/class-(whatever)

I found I was starting to learn my class, understand it, understand why I was doing what I was told.


I think what we find here, is that there is literally only one way to find if someone has the ability, and that is to have them fight the boss. Problem is you run the risk of a whipe, and on 25 man, usually means 7 people leaving : /

Raid leaders want some piece of mind, and use as many aids as possible.

Elitist group is another good one, more personal and not a "requirement".

But I can check everyone for gems ane enchants, ensure they are correctly gemmed and enchanted, make sure they are hit capped, no pvp gear.

I can also add notes and a review score for that player, so in future, I can read what review they got from me, if they got a bad one, bye bye

If they integrate this feature, for EVERYONE using Elitist group ( might be a resource drain) I think it would be the best way.

You get an accurate description of people, from people raiding with them. However I feel it wouldnt be used properly cause of the immaturity level in wow and low tolerance rate.

padraigggg

TheDoc wrote: »

".

But I can check everyone for gems ane enchants, ensure they are correctly gemmed and enchanted, make sure they are hit capped, no pvp gear.

I think this is the best route. And you're right, WTF is up with all the PvP gear finding its way into my Raids & people wondering why they are kicked lately?!? I've lately even had some PvP gear in some of my 5man ICC instances, which is fine when its only one, but when its 2 or 3, HoR is b1tch! Maybe it just cuz they're still newer instances....

elexes

padraigggg wrote: »

I think this is the best route. And you're right, WTF is up with all the PvP gear finding its way into my Raids & people wondering why they are kicked lately?!? I've lately even had some PvP gear in some of my 5man ICC instances, which is fine when its only one, but when its 2 or 3, HoR is b1tch! Maybe it just cuz they're still newer instances....

when leveling 70-80 in av your more likely to end up dinging 80 and buying pvp gear to make your overall dps / healing better. after all some of the pvp gear is a lot better then that item you picked up in a normal instance back when you were level 75

jabberwock

the new gearscore interface now checks toons close enough to you for there achievements as well and give a Experience score type thing.

haven't looked too much into but if right would make a nice addition and means to weed out the lesser skilled.