Developing film

Nisio

There's been a fair few threads of late about people getting backi nto film or asking where to develop film etc. Might it be possible for someone to list exactly what you need in terms of gear and chemicals (is it possible to specify the exact chemicals?) to develop both C41 and say something like neopan? Maybe with a view to putting it in the FAQ at the top of the forum?

Like for gear to develop two rolls at a time I think I'd need:

Light proof bag (these come in loads of sizes, has anyone used different sizes and found out whats too small/big?)

thermometer (what kind of range might it need, I guess it has to be long enough to get to the bottom of the developing tank?)

Developing tank and spiral reels x 2 (is there a difference between the plastic and steel reels?)Best/worst tanks etc

Stirring stick is listed on some kits is this needed if you're inverting the tank
Bottle opener

scissors (with safety blades obviously!! :rolleyes:)

clips to hang the film

sink to wash film (can tap water be used? are all these chemicals safe for regular sinks/environment?

film squeege (gimick?)

Measuring beakers (what kinda size/graduations for doing 2 rolls?)

On the chemicals side I'm a bit lost
there's water (ok on this one I think, although is tap water or does it have to be demineralised or something?)
developer fixer stop are any of these generic for common types of film? are they safe to pour down the drain or reuse. Is getting them in powdered form better/worse than liquid?
chemical for helping to dry the film (gimmick or needed?)

DaireQuinlan

Nisio wrote: »

There's been a fair few threads of late about people getting backi nto film or asking where to develop film etc. Might it be possible for someone to list exactly what you need in terms of gear and chemicals (is it possible to specify the exact chemicals?) to develop both C41 and say something like neopan?

There are also a bunch of threads listing exactly what peeps need in terms of gear and chemicals If people aren't going to bother searching the forum then they're probably not going to bother reading a sticky either. I guess it's just the nature of the beast, I used to write detailed replies to queries about (say) tripods, or film development, or scanners. Now I just do a one liner or a post with links to previous threads. It gets tiring writing the same thing over and over

Nisio

Fair enough Daire

jpb1974

The bare essentials -

Dark Bag
Dev Tank
Reel(s)
Thermometer
Measuring Cylinders/Jugs
Hanging Clips

Water (Tap or Distilled)
Developer
Stop Bath (Optional)
Fixer
Wetting Agent (Optional)

You basically use the Dark Bag to transfer the exposed roll of film onto a reel and into the dev tank. Then you develop, the steps can vary based on personal preference but at the very least -

Pre-Wash (Optional)
Develop
Stop (Chemical or Water)
Fix
Wash
Wetting Agent

Finally - Hang to Dry.

This is for B+W film dev. It's really quite simple once you get the hang of it.

Measures a developer will be small... depending on the ratio of developer to water you could be down as low as 10ml of developer for a 500ml mix to develop a roll of 120 film.

Measures of fixer are slightly larger, 100ml of fixer will create a 500ml mix to fix a roll of 120.

Colour development, which I have never done, is a different kettle of fish and can require some specialist equipment to control very precise temperatures.

Nisio

Thanks Jpb

I might pull some links together from the searches starting with these ones
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=53620194&postcount=6


http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/200629163442455.pdf

http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php

jpb1974

It's a bit daunting getting started...

My advice would be to go to Gunnes Camera Shop on Wexford Street in Dublin (if that's handy) and ask them for all the bits you need. You should be able to get everything I mentioned (equipment and chemicals) for about €100.

Getting started Rodinal is a pretty good developer in terms of bang for your buck. It can be used at a ratio of 1:50 (developer to water ratio) which means about 10ml for a 500ml mix.(I'm talking in 120 film terms here).

Any other info... just shout.

jpb1974

Light proof bag (these come in loads of sizes, has anyone used different sizes and found out whats too small/big?)

Get the standard bag in Gunnes

thermometer (what kind of range might it need, I guess it has to be long enough to get to the bottom of the developing tank?)

Gunnes will provide you with a thermometer to compliment the measuring cylinders

Developing tank and spiral reels x 2 (is there a difference between the plastic and steel reels?)Best/worst tanks etc

Patterson Tank/Reels are the most common used, again available from Gunnes

Stirring stick is listed on some kits is this needed if you're inverting the tank

The Patterson tank comes with a "stirring stick" (for the want of a better description) but it's isn't totally necessary when it comes to agitating. Simply turninig the dev tank upside down and back a few times over a 10 seconds period and then a tap on the counter at the end to displace any air bubbles that may have formed inside the tank

Bottle opener

Some people use these for opening 35mm canisters in the dark bag

scissors (with safety blades obviously!! )

Not entirely necessary in the dark bag for 120 film. Maybe for 35mm (of which I don't do much

clips to hang the film

Yep

sink to wash film (can tap water be used? are all these chemicals safe for regular sinks/environment?

A sink is handy. Opinions vary on putting mixes down the drain

film squeege (gimick?)

Don't use them. Not required. Some say you can scratch your film

Measuring beakers (what kinda size/graduations for doing 2 rolls?)

Two rolls of 120 = 1000ml, Two rolls of 35mm is about 700ml. You really need to be able to measure from about 10ml up to at least about 100ml in 1ml increments. You can always measure out two batches of 100ml for a 200ml requirement.

On the chemicals side I'm a bit lost
there's water (ok on this one I think, although is tap water or does it have to be demineralised or something?)
developer fixer stop are any of these generic for common types of film? are they safe to pour down the drain or reuse. Is getting them in powdered form better/worse than liquid?
chemical for helping to dry the film (gimmick or needed?)

Starting out I would recommend liquid form. It's a bit easier and more convenient.

DaireQuinlan

Nisio wrote: »

Fair enough Daire

Actually, apologies are in order here, Nisio. I thought you were just suggesting putting up a sticky and suggesting some content for it, I didn't realise you were looking for pointers yourself.

That Ilford stuff is pretty good, it's what I read when I was starting into development.

ThenComesDudley

Jpb has pretty much listed everything that you need.. personally i don't use a stop with my chems, ive always just used water as a stop between the dev and fixer... and its worked fine. Also it is safe to pour used chemicals down the sink, but ive been told by gunns that if you are worried about it you can bring the used chemicals into them and they will get rid of it for you.

Nisio

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

Actually, apologies are in order here, Nisio. I thought you were just suggesting putting up a sticky and suggesting some content for it, I didn't realise you were looking for pointers yourself.

That Ilford stuff is pretty good, it's what I read when I was starting into development.

Ah no worries I was kinda looking for both really; there's a fair bit of stuff in the FAQ stickey but nothing yet on developing film mostly DSLR stuff. If I get time I'll try trawl back through old posts and put together the basics and stick it in as a post in that FAQ sticky

ThenComesDudley

i was wondering about that... never seen much in the stickys about film,seems to be all digital based links, Good luck Nisio and putting together a thread on it... i look forward to seeing it

DudleyDude

Quick question. I recently got some Developer and fixer in Gunns. I was told to change the ratio of developer from 15:1 to 30:1 and double the time. Do I do the same thing for the fixer? It says 4:1 so should I make it 8:1?

DaireQuinlan

You probably -could- do all right, err on the side of caution with fixer. you never want to under-fix but it's next to impossible to over-fix so just leave it in for whatever.
A standard rule of thumb (particularly useful if you re-use your fix) is to dump some exposed but undeveloped film into the fix. The leader from the roll you're developing is often most convenient, as you've cut it off to load the film. Check how long it takes to go completwly clear. Then double that time as your fix time for the film in the tank.

DudleyDude

So keeping it in the fixer longer isn't really an issue then. When I make up the chemicals should I make just enough for one roll or make a batch and keep it in a bottle for next use? When I develop a roll do I throw the chems in the tank away or can they be used again?

jpb1974

When you make up a batch of fixer it can typically be re-used a number of times (I re-use mine about 5 times).

The longer you leave a roll of film in the fixer then the chances are that the fixer will exhaust itself quicker.

If the fixer becomes exhausted quickly and you opt to re-use the fixer then you could run the risk of under-fixing your negatives and they could possibly fade over time.

trishw78

clips to hang the film

I use wooden clothes pegs...

Nisio

Did the first film there last week, seems to have turned out ok. Comic moment was when I opened the lid on the tank after I'd put a small bit too much washing up liquid in the last wash and did the inverting thing... might try get some propper wash aid stuff if I can find somwhere selling it in smaller amounts than Gunnes.

jpb1974

As an alternative to washing up liquid this is what I do -

Get a bottle of Wetting Agent in Gunnes... it will cost less than €10 and will last for donkey's.

Then go to a DIY store and get a small-ish spray bottle (500ml). Mine cost €1.50 from Woodies DIY in the gardening department.

Fill the spray bottle with water and then add two drops of Wetting Agent.
When I say drops I mean as in eye drop proportions, only a tiny, tiny amount is required.

When you're finished washing your negs hang them and then give them a light spray all over with the Water/Wetting Agent mix. Give the Water/Wetting Agent a good shake before use.

DaireQuinlan

Nisio wrote: »

Did the first film there last week, seems to have turned out ok. Comic moment was when I opened the lid on the tank after I'd put a small bit too much washing up liquid in the last wash and did the inverting thing... might try get some propper wash aid stuff if I can find somwhere selling it in smaller amounts than Gunnes.

What do they have, is it the 1 litre Ilfotol ? I bought that several years ago and am still using the same bottle Just get the 1 litre, it's not that expensive and you won't have to worry about running out for quite some time. I've used washing up liquid before, I just put a couple of drops in and swished the reels gently around in it a bit, I don't think I ever actually considered agitating it :eek::eek:

trishw78

I use a 2 maybe 3 drops of the wetting agent swirl the film about abit not enough to cause bubbles. I have a 500ml bottle that I got years ago.

Nisio

They had only a 1 litre bottle left in stock as far as I remember, it seemed fairly pricy so I thought I'd try the washing up liquid. I think I probably inverted the tank in the order of 15 times on the last wash with the washing up liquid (operator error!) Barker photo in Cork have it in smaller amounts but the postage to dublin doesn't make it worth while.

I pretty much used all the chemicals as one-shots; what do people use to store batches of mixed developer/fixer? Does it have to be light proof or something? would some thing like a coke bottle work? I can't immagine I'll be doing 1 film a week, I'd think the stuff would "go off" in that time?

trishw78

I never reuse developer. If I'm doing more than one film at a time (which reminds me there's 4 sitting beside the oven waiting to be developed) I'll reuse the fixer. I store it in a water bottle.

jpb1974

Developer

I mix up fresh. It only takes 30 seconds assuming your water is at the right temperature.

I'd only make a batch if I were using the powder form developers.

Fixer

I mix up a batch and re-use about 5 times. I store in a plastic bottle.

Wetting Agent

A mix in my spray bottle does about 10 films.


The chemicals aren't light sensitive.

Dictyostelium

Sorry if it has been asked, but does anybody know any good darkroom suppliers online in Ireland that are any good?

thefizz

Dictyostelium wrote: »

Sorry if it has been asked, but does anybody know any good darkroom suppliers online in Ireland that are any good?

What are you looking for exactly?

Gunns would have most of the gear required. Give them a call (01 4781226) and they will send out your order by courier.

Dictyostelium

thefizz wrote: »

What are you looking for exactly?

Gunns would have most of the gear required. Give them a call (01 4781226) and they will send out your order by courier.

Well pretty much everything, I have been out of Ireland for 10 years and I was shocked at the price of Film and processing, its like Ireland is almost anti photography. I got a quote for 9Euros for B&W film development and 6 for the film itself. When B&W film in Japan is 1.5 too 2 euro and processing is less than 2.

I was able to develop and print myself and I think I am going to have to resort to doing it again. I basically want the whole package, but larger tanks that can hold 4 120 steal reels. Light bag etc. And will have to go back to getting used to one kind of film, so I can buy in bulk.

thefizz

Gunns should have what you need.

aidanic

Dictyostelium wrote: »

And will have to go back to getting used to one kind of film, so I can buy in bulk.

I use www.mailshots.co.uk for some film purchases. They are good value, and quick delivery to Ireland - First Class UK mail.

Not sure about the chemicals end of things, cross boarder that is, but I use www.macodirect.de for many things, and within Germany delivery is as low as €1. You'll need to check with them directly.

As I mentioned on another thread, you can get some of the hardware on eBay.

Aidan

Dictyostelium

Thanks for the replies guys, I`ll send and email to Gunns, and I had a good look at the other suppliers.

Just wondering though do you get hit with duty from Eurozone imports or is it fairly transparent?

aidanic

Dictyostelium wrote: »

Just wondering though do you get hit with duty from Eurozone imports or is it fairly transparent?

Goods within the EU are in "free circulation", no additional duty or taxes on import from the EU 27 countries.

You must pay VAT somewhere. With some retailers you have the option to pay VAT in their country or in your country, but this does not apply to all. Others charge in their country (e.g. UK 17.5%) and others again, the Irish 21.5% rate. It all depends.

Effects

Just looking for some advice on developing out of date film. I have some 120 Tmax100 that's out of date since 2004. Does it need any more time in the developer?

Effects

Just went with the standard times, looks like it came out fine.

aidanic

Effects wrote: »

Just looking for some advice on developing out of date film. I have some 120 Tmax100 that's out of date since 2004. Does it need any more time in the developer?

Good to hear you got on OK.

I developed some expired Tmax100 myself over the weekend in Rodinal R09, and gave it an extra 30s (6 min rather than 5.5). The main reason was because I had a second roll of Fuji Across in the tank, and it needed 6min. Hence the fresh roll took precidence. It came out perfect.

My experience with B+W expired film is that it does not "expire" so quickly. I'd consider a slightly longer development time, equivalent to a half or full stop push. If you have a number of rolls that are the same and expired, clearly you can run a test roll, and get a feel for the condition of film.

I had some good and bad results recently with expired Kodachrome, processed by Dwaynes in the US. Some rolls were good, other came back with a blue cast, and I'm not sure if that was X-Ray damage, or bad storage.

For C41 negative, I've a half box of Fuji Superia 1600 that expired back in 2003! I should have run a test roll, but didn't, and one set of Christmas party photos is pretty much toast. The next few rolls will be exposed at 800 or possibly 400, since I think that's pretty much all that's left in the emulsion.

I've seen posted elsewhere (on the interweb) that you can assume per decade, film will decay by one stop. So my 1600 became 800. My rule of thumb is adjusted by film stock (BW - no real decay, E6 - a half stop if stored OK, E6 - a full stop if not stored OK, K14 - a half to one stop, C41 - one to two stops)

Check out some of the Lomo sites on the internet - those guys go nuts for expired film, and cross-process and everything!

Aidan

aidanic

aidanic wrote: »

I developed some expired Tmax100 myself over the weekend in Rodinal R09, and gave it an extra 30s (6 min rather than 5.5).

*cough* On mature reflection, I may have overcooked this one!



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