Gripes about modern games.

Xluna

I miss the days of the snes,I really do. Here's some of the things that annoy me about modern games.

1; Too easy. Most games now are far too easy.
2; Needlessly intricate controls. Figuring out the myriad of controls and camera angles is often more difficult than the game itself.
3; Too many FPS games. Seriously,you think that's all some people play.
4; Poor storylines. Even among JRPGs the story lines seem to be getting weaker.
5; Emphasis on online play at the expense of single player mode. This ties into 4. Many games,especially fps games,have short campaigns with all the emphasis on online play.
6; Games altered for the casual gamer. Final fantasy springs to mind. I want turn based gameplay again. Look at how the Sonic games have been butchered.
7; Obsession with 3D graphics. 2-D games can be beautifully animated with incrediably detailed backgrounds, Chronotrigger,SF III ect. But these are increasingly rare.
8; The death of the 2-D shoot-em up. Gradius,1942,R-Type...so many classics.
9; Lifestyle games; "Lose weight with your Wii" "Spice up your sex life with the Kama Sutra on DS":rolleyes:

These are my personal gripes. What's yours?

Outkast_IRE

too many sequels to games that arent good in the first place .
Need more creativity and original ideas .
However i must disagree with your lack of great stories comment the two that spring to mind are mass effect and Dragon age , in terms of story telling they are great . Also oblivion and fallout 3 are solid stories

o1s1n

The death of the arcade.

I miss old arcades lined with Jamma cabinets.

Or going to a pub somewhere with your folks as a kid and find an old Jamma cabinet in the back somewhere.

amacachi

Xluna wrote: »

1; Too easy. Most games now are far too easy.
2; Needlessly intricate controls. Figuring out the myriad of controls and camera angles is often more difficult than the game itself.
3; Too many FPS games. Seriously,you think that's all some people play.
4; Poor storylines. Even among JRPGs the story lines seem to be getting weaker.
5; Emphasis on online play at the expense of single player mode. This ties into 4. Many games,especially fps games,have short campaigns with all the emphasis on online play.
6; Games altered for the casual gamer. Final fantasy springs to mind. I want turn based gameplay again. Look at how the Sonic games have been butchered.
7; Obsession with 3D graphics. 2-D games can be beautifully animated with incrediably detailed backgrounds, Chronotrigger,SF III ect. But these are increasingly rare.
8; The death of the 2-D shoot-em up. Gradius,1942,R-Type...so many classics.
9; Lifestyle games; "Lose weight with your Wii" "Spice up your sex life with the Kama Sutra on DS":rolleyes:

These are my personal gripes. What's yours?

1: Disagree, I can complete old games far easier than current ones for some reason.
2:Agree.
3:Agree. A million times.
4:Probably don't play enough story-led games to have an opinion on that.
5:Agree in some cases.
6:Agree.
7:Agree.
8:Meh.
9:They're not games, they're totally superfluous to the point.

Probably my main gripe is controls. Too many options. Also the Wii. "It's like playing tennis!" If I wanted to play tennis I'd go and bloody do it!

Xluna

o1s1n wrote: »

The death of the arcade.

I miss old arcades lined with Jamma cabinets.

Or going to a pub somewhere with your folks as a kid and find an old Jamma cabinet in the back somewhere.

Yeah I used to love playing SF2 and those Neo Geo cabinets which had a choice of three games,usually Art of fighting,World Heroes and Fatal fury. I used to get a guilty pleasure from those games as I knew they were far from as good as SF2,but I enjoyed them anyway.

Xluna

About the lack of good stories...I tend to go for japanese rpgs rather than US RPGs. I personally did'nt find the story in Oblivion compelling,but I never played Fallout 3 or Dragon age. Stories I did enjoy were Bioshock and Lost Odyssey.Suikoden 5 had a good story too but that was on the PS2.

o1s1n

Xluna wrote: »

Yeah I used to love playing SF2 and those Neo Geo cabinets which had a choice of three games,usually Art of fighting,World Heroes and Fatal fury. I used to get a guilty pleasure from those games as I knew they were far from as good as SF2,but I enjoyed them anyway.

You were playing the wrong Neo Geo fighters! Particularly World Heroes games. They're awful!

I would rate Garou: Mark of the Wolves, The Last Blade 1&2 and Samurai Showdown 2 far FAR higher than SF2. 2D fighting perfected.

Xluna

o1s1n wrote: »

You were playing the wrong Neo Geo fighters! Particularly World Heroes games. They're awful!

I would rate Garou: Mark of the Wolves, The Last Blade 1&2 and Samurai Showdown 2 far FAR higher than SF2. 2D fighting perfected.

For some reason I loved the first two Art of fighting games. It was so eighties in aesthetics and all the characters,music and stages were so stereotypical and cheesy it was fantastic. I've played Garou,Samurai Shodown and the Last blade. Great games,especially the Samurai Shodown games,but SFII hyper fighting will always be my favourite.

o1s1n

amacachi wrote: »

8:Meh.

GTFO! :eek:

Retr0gamer

The death of 2D shmups is an absolute crime. However I also feel that the prevailence of bullet hell shooters is also really annoying. They are just far too tough to be fun and can only be played by an expert in the genre. At least every now and again we get a brilliant one like ikaruga and Gradius V but they are few and far between.

Games these days are way easier than old games but it's like that for a reason since games these days are so much longer. However what I do hate is rechargeable health systems and 'you can never die' systems that are there to cover up poor and frustrating game design.

We really need more 2D games. People are going on about how Uncharted 2 is the best looking game this year. I totally disagree. A boy and his blob and Muramasa: Demon Sword are far better looking games. Even stylised 3D is better than making everything look realistic but ending up in the middle of the uncanny valley.

Narrative however has come on leaps and bounds. I think since the 16-bit era and the CD-rom era on PCs is were narrative reach the high it is at now but we see good narrative in a lot more games, although not nearly enough. Still a lot of narrative driven games get ignored and games with stories that are absolute nonsense like Halo, MGS 4 and FFVII are held up as pinnacles of videogame narrative. It's no wonder snobs like Ebert are turning their noses up at videogames as a narrative device when nonsense like is championed. JRPG storylines for me are getting way better. However that doesn't stand for Square JRPGs which are getting moreimmature and teen appeasing. Atlus really have a great localisation team and the excellent stories of their games are coming through.

I really miss the arcades but the fighting game boards.ie meet ups go along way to restoring the same feeling for me.

o1s1n

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I really miss the arcades but the fighting game boards.ie meet ups go along way to restoring the same feeling for me.

What games do people play? Is it purely SF IV? I'd love to meet up for a bit of gaming with folk, but it wouldn't be any of this newfangled nonsense.

Nothing beats a run through a good shooter with someone else who's decent at the game.

Wow, that sounds way too like a personal ad.

...

18-30, females only.

Retr0gamer

It's mostly Street Fighter 4 but it plays very old school, very close to the old games until you learn it's intricacies. There's a few there that play Street Fighter 3 every so often and SF2 gets a few goes as well. Marvel vs. Capcom 2 gets a few goes every now and again but it's mostly Street Fighter 4. Everyone is good craic and anyone is welcome.

Myrddin

o1s1n wrote: »

The death of the arcade.

I miss old arcades lined with Jamma cabinets.

Or going to a pub somewhere with your folks as a kid and find an old Jamma cabinet in the back somewhere.

That feeling of walking into an arcade, and being deafened by Hadokens, tyres screeching, afterburner music, change machines - pure magic!

o1s1n wrote: »

What games do people play? Is it purely SF IV? I'd love to meet up for a bit of gaming with folk, but it wouldn't be any of this newfangled nonsense.

Nothing beats a run through a good shooter with someone else who's decent at the game.

Wow, that sounds way too like a personal ad.

...

18-30, females only.

Fully agree, though being male I cant apply

Doctor DooM

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's mostly Street Fighter 4 but it plays very old school, very close to the old games until you learn it's intricacies. There's a few there that play Street Fighter 3 every so often and SF2 gets a few goes as well. Marvel vs. Capcom 2 gets a few goes every now and again but it's mostly Street Fighter 4. Everyone is good craic and anyone is welcome.

you rang?


I'd definitely be up for some old school 2d fighter fun.

I'd also love to run through a few beat em ups with some good players.

Xluna

I just remembered something else which pisses me off. When companies make a modern sequel to a franchise which spits vomit on its might predecessor. Secret of mana on the Snes was one of my favourite RPGs of all time. Square released two mana games on the DS and they were pretty awful. Square Enix really have gone down hill recently.:( At least they're doing a good job with the dragon quest games.

Retr0gamer

Cool, was hoping some one would be up for some Samurai Showdown 2 and Garou. I'm useless at them but would like to get better at the SNK games.

Doctor DooM

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Cool, was hoping some one would be up for some Samurai Showdown 2 and Garou. I'm useless at them but would like to get better at the SNK games.

I didn't play SS2 much as it wasn't in the arcades for very long where I played, but I'd certainly go a few rounds on it. Never played Garou.


Well, I played Fatal Fury 1 and 2.

o1s1n

If you've never played Mark of the Wolves you're certainly in for a treat. Don't forget The Last Blade games too, they're better than Samurai Showdown...well I think so anyway :pac:

Retr0gamer

We can only really go by what's on PSN and Xbox Live Arcade Don't worry Doom I'm totally useless at them as well and playing against AI doesn't help and isn't fun due to the age old SNK tradition ofmaking the AI stupidly cheap.

amacachi

o1s1n wrote: »

GTFO! :eek:

I miss 2D games overall, just not shooters.

I will agree with Retr0gamer that stylized graphics whether 2D or 3D should be used more. Realism is still a good way off so going for it is silly as far as I'm concerned.

o1s1n

amacachi wrote: »

I miss 2D games overall, just not shooters.
.

I find it very hard to understand how people can not like shooters. Shooters ARE videogames. Things fire at you. You dodge and shoot back. You really can't get any more fundamental than that. It's pure videogames playing.

Everything else just takes that idea and expands it :pac:

del88

I was the king of gorf...or space avenger to be more persise..
I think the controls were simplier but the the moves with them were much harder...
It took be about 8 weeks and probably £400 to get to space avenger on gorf.
Most games on the ps3 i'd finish in a few days handy..

http://www.klov.com/G/Gorf.html

http://doda.tv/video/45oF2pTSwdg

Syferus

NeoGAF lite thread.

If you don't know what that means, I envy you.

koHd

Save at any point. Totally takes the suspence of a game away. You used to have to try beat whole sections without messing up. Now you save right before a hard bit and keep doing that one little bit over and over til you get by it, then save again. I know you can choose not to save constantly. But the fact its there takes the prestige out of clocking a game away. Makes it way too easy. You used to be able to brag about beating a game. Not anymore.

Syferus

Because, evidently, people were so impressed that you got one sprite to the end of a long line of other sprites that they fanned you with praise and wondered if you were even human.

Ahem.

koHd

Syferus wrote: »

Because, evidently, people were so impressed that you got one sprite to the end of a long line of other sprites that they fanned you with praise and wondered if you were even human.

Ahem.

I prefer 7up.

CiDeRmAn

Xluna wrote: »

I miss the days of the snes,I really do. Here's some of the things that annoy me about modern games.

1; Too easy. Most games now are far too easy.
2; Needlessly intricate controls. Figuring out the myriad of controls and camera angles is often more difficult than the game itself.
3; Too many FPS games. Seriously,you think that's all some people play.
4; Poor storylines. Even among JRPGs the story lines seem to be getting weaker.
5; Emphasis on online play at the expense of single player mode. This ties into 4. Many games,especially fps games,have short campaigns with all the emphasis on online play.
6; Games altered for the casual gamer. Final fantasy springs to mind. I want turn based gameplay again. Look at how the Sonic games have been butchered.
7; Obsession with 3D graphics. 2-D games can be beautifully animated with incrediably detailed backgrounds, Chronotrigger,SF III ect. But these are increasingly rare.
8; The death of the 2-D shoot-em up. Gradius,1942,R-Type...so many classics.
9; Lifestyle games; "Lose weight with your Wii" "Spice up your sex life with the Kama Sutra on DS":rolleyes:

These are my personal gripes. What's yours?

1. Most games now at least have something new to look at when you make it through, rather than blandly recycling the same badguys, but faster! as in many old games...
2. Complex worlds need complex controls, and as the interfaces get better, so the controls get better, the N64 pad as an ugly b1tch but nothing was better to control Mario64. The Wii-mote is a great example of this, complex worlds controlled in a natural manner.
3. There are lots of FPS games sure, and there are lots of games played from a first person perspective, completely different thing, HalfLife2 vs Metroid Prime.
4. Storylines are getting stronger if anything, Bioshock, Oblivion, Fallout3, KOTOR, as opposed to Super Smash TV? Galaga? Daytona?
5. Sure, online play has become important, but most games are still aimed at single players, COD:MW2 has a great single player mode, I loved it though I don't play online, sure I wished it could have gone on forever but, hey, there are loads of other games to play too, Far Cry 2, Batman AA, Fallout 3, so no worries...
6. Sonic games have been on a slippery slope since the launch of Sonic 3, although the Sonic Jam games are pretty good. There is a larger market out there, so there are games that are easy and those that are not, then there are those that have difficulty levels so you can tailor it to your taste, not all games are for casual gamers! Halo can be played on easy, or even normal, but why? Just play it on Heroic and you get a far better experience.
7. Many, if not most games are 3D experiences now, but again what's the problem? There are still many great sprite based games, Braid and Boy and his Blob are two that spring to mind.
8. You are not paying attention, the DC has been host to lots of great releases in the area of shooters, many are now coming to xbla, psn and wiiware, or have you not played Ikaruga, Border Down, Radirgy etc.
9. Regarding lifestyle games, if you don't want them, don't buy them!

You seem to be hung up on a rose tinted past, forgetting the huge swathes of rubbish platformers, terrible movie licences and all manner of poorly put together games over the years.
Truth is we have never had it so good.
There are so many great gaes coming out on a weekly basis a dedicated gamer has no hope of ever playing them all.
The great thing about games of yesteryear is we have 30 years of games to distill down to the best, so we talk about how marvellous it was to own a Snes or Megadrive, banging on and on about Super Mario World or Sonic 2, and yes they were and are fantastic, but we then forget about Bubsy, about Army Men, about Rise of the Robots, Pit Fighter on the Megadrive, tons and tons of poorly made games that we spent our money on and were disappointed.

So pop the rose tinted spex off for a while, enjoy the retro stuff, all of us here do, but don't kid yourself into thinking that things were "better", no, they were simply different, not to mention the best of the gaming experiences are tightly rolled up in nostalgia, which makes them even sweeter...

Retr0gamer

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

So pop the rose tinted spex off for a while, enjoy the retro stuff, all of us here do, but don't kid yourself into thinking that things were "better", no, they were simply different, not to mention the best of the gaming experiences are tightly rolled up in nostalgia, which makes them even sweeter...

I seem to be buying and playing a lot of games that I would rate as above average. Back in the 16-bit, 32-bit and PS2 era these games would never have gotten a look in.

The save system thing is a good point as well. I remember the uproar over the dead rising save system. I had no problems with it and if you managed to save and **** up your game it was because you were an idiot. However we have had quick saving in PC games for a long time.

Gummy Panda

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I seem to be buying and playing a lot of games that I would rate as above average. Back in the 16-bit, 32-bit and PS2 era these games would never have gotten a look in.

The save system thing is a good point as well. I remember the uproar over the dead rising save system. I had no problems with it and if you managed to save and **** up your game it was because you were an idiot. However we have had quick saving in PC games for a long time.

Saving also helps create the OCD gamer.

"Oh.. i got a new weapon. Must trek to save point. MUST SAVE! SAVE!"

What above average games are you playing these days that you wouldn't in 16-bit/32-bit?

Retr0gamer

Stuff like Halo 3, the Darkness, Kane and Lynch, Excitetruck, off the top of my head which range from average to out and out bad. There's a lot of games I end up beating and realising that I didn't really enjoy them.

CiDeRmAn

I have to say, the best gaming experiences I have ever had would include the following, in no particular order,
Playing Elite on my Speccy for the first time.
Playing Uridium on a mates C64,
Playing Battlezone on a Wales bound ferry, first time ever, and was blown away!
Bioshock, starting it, finishing it, and everything in between.
Doom, at 3am, in a old psychiatric hospital, on a PS, nice.
Getting a PS and Wipeout and realising the future was here, and I liked it.
Manic Miner, nuff said.
Playing Ghostbusters on the Amstrad CPC464 and knowing, from then on, that movie licences really had to earn a place in my collection.
Quake and Mechwarrior 2 on my first PC in '95
Tomb Raider on the same PC after I bought my first graphics card, a rendition beast, hmm...
Playing Mario64 on an import N64 in Gamesworld,
Playing Zelda OoT,
Metal Gear Solid on PS, in japanese, and finishing it...
Resident Evil on the GC, Wow, and same reaction when playing Resident Evil 4 on the same console a couple of years later.

Now that's just a brief snapshot of standout gaming moments, for me.
Been playing videogames since a guy got a Binatone Pong console back in '77, when I was 5 and there have been a lot of gaming done since then, 2D, 3D, rpg, shooter, driving game everything really.
Modern games and older games are all good, they should be seen as a continuum of gaming, not as discrete sections, divided off from each other, games have evolved over the years, C&C, Virtua Fighter, Tekken, Metal Gear, Mario Bros, Pacman, Final Fantasy, Morrowind, all games that had their templates set many years ago but have adapted to new hardware and interface solutions to bring us new experiences, not to mention allowing the appreciation of games past by the masses through VC/XBLA and PSN.

It's all good!