Bi-Polar/Depression, exacerbated by anti-depressants?

Filan

As someone who has experienced many bleak moments, many moments of despair, yet they always passed. They were only prolonged and exacerbated if I took anti-depressants, which seemed to permanently alter my mood, accompanied by physical side affects. Having been involved in support groups I'm starting to feel that medication can actually worsen and prolong many people's suffering. Many people I've encountered say, like me, that depressive phases pass, and there's usually a circumstantial cause, rather than a purely biological one.

A doctor on the radio a few weeks ago said that no test exists to prove the existance of 'depression', have read many reports on the inadequate testing and in many cases failure of the medication used.

Having also studied some Psychology myself, I'm really just wondering whether depression as a condition is misdiagnosed? Are people truly lifelong bipolar? or does the medical profession misdiagnose them as such when merely going through a prolonged bad phase?

I'm not saying medication has no place but deeply sceptical of the medical model of depression, would like to hear others views.

Dilynnio

One theorist, Glaser, said that people choose to be depressed.That a person is said to be depressing.....rather controversial!Its to do with choice/reality theory.

But I have to agree in the long run I think they do more harm then good and I can say this from experience!

In my opinion.....

leggo

Knowing someone close to me who 'suffers' from bipolar, I've long held the belief that there is no physical evidence of it existing. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one.

It's a fantastic money-maker for doctors. They validate people's depression by telling them that there's something physically wrong with them...which, in turn, makes it psychologically incurable because the depression then festers. As a result, you're left with a patient who now believes they NEED these meds to damn-near survive...when said meds are more of a hindrance than anything else, as you said.

It's sad to think, but doctors would go out of business if they were able to cure all of their patients' illnesses.

I'm adamant that all of these 'diseases' can be cured psychologically. But drug companies and medical professionals will forever be looking for different names to call depression and insecurity so they can sell their merchandise.

Filan

I think the medical model of depression is bung and it scares me to think of the people in Psychiatric hospitals unaware of this...A lot of people are not good at looking inside themselves, at identifying environmental causes...and therefore it's an easy diagnosis to label them bipolar, suits both sides in many cases.

What brought this to the fore for me was the sad case of the British-Pakistani man executed in China who was allegedly bi-polar, I really wonder does such a thing exist. Some people are naturaly negative, some people lead lives that they cannot be happy with and are labeled as bi-polar. Drugs maintain a dependence , by altering the chemical balance of the body, one become dependent on them even if one didn't need them to begin with. That could easily have been me.

Dilynnio

Filan wrote: »

I think the medical model of depression is bung and it scares me to think of the people in Psychiatric hospitals unaware of this...A lot of people are not good at looking inside themselves, at identifying environmental causes...and therefore it's an easy diagnosis to label them bipolar, suits both sides in many cases.

What brought this to the fore for me was the sad case of the British-Pakistani man executed in China who was allegedly bi-polar, I really wonder does such a thing exist. Some people are naturaly negative, some people lead lives that they cannot be happy with and are labeled as bi-polar. Drugs maintain a dependence , by altering the chemical balance of the body, one become dependent on them even if one didn't need them to begin with. That could easily have been me.

I think the mental illness was a red herring! I am sure people would go to any lengths to save themselves!

A person with bi-polar would also know that drug trafficking is illegal and that it carries the death penalty in that country!

I think the right intensive counselling with the right person can cure many mental illnesses rather then using medication.People who were prescribed drugs and who were diagnosed years ago before counselling became a widely accessible and acceptable form of treatment are now dependent on the medication and believe that it helps them. Counselling should be tried first and if unsuccessful then carefully prescribed medication be given.

In my opinion.......

Have u seen what medication has done to these people? It is very very sad indeed.

Filan

I think the medical model is scary and ever more so the more research I do.....

discostick12

Filan wrote: »

I think the medical model is scary and ever more so the more research I do.....

Agree with you here. Since staring my course in college I have done research, and the more I read the more frightened I become

Filan

Even scarier is the fact that because proponents of this model are medical doctors they control people's lives, based on a bung model and are in many cases answerable to nobody.

There was a case on the Late Late Show about six weeks ago where a lad in Dublin, who was on anti-depressants committed murder and then suicicide, he did take more than the prescribed dosage admittedly, but his parents blamed the prescription of anti-depressants for the development of aggressive tendencies which were never there previous....a Psychiatrist verified that this was entirely possible.....and as no medical test exists for depression/bipolar...well medication is in many cases wrongly prescribed...medication itself devised on at best inconclusive test results.... While there is some good Psychiatrists, much of Psychiatry is built on a lie.

Valmont

Filan wrote: »

There was a case on the Late Late Show about six weeks ago where a lad in Dublin, who was on anti-depressants committed murder and then suicicide, he did take more than the prescribed dosage admittedly, but his parents blamed the prescription of anti-depressants for the development of aggressive tendencies which were never there previous....a Psychiatrist verified that this was entirely possible.....and as no medical test exists for depression/bipolar...well medication is in many cases wrongly prescribed...medication itself devised on at best inconclusive test results.... While there is some good Psychiatrists, much of Psychiatry is built on a lie.

What a load of nonsense. I saw this episode of the late late and I was disgusted.

So he is depressed, it isn't his fault, it's an illness that he had no control over. He is prescribed (not force fed) some pills and commits murder. But of course, that wasn't really his fault either, because he was on these pills you see...:rolleyes:

The deemphasis of the individual in matters of mental health is unfortunate. Instead of empowering people to take responsibility for their lives and decisions, they are led to believe that they have been unluckily stricken down by an "illness". Poor guy.

Filan

Some people are railroaded onto the medical train without honest information...of course feeling depressed is the persons fault, but the system isn't always an honest one...because people are fed the illusion that tablets can solve their unhappy life...the medical model is the established one and that needs to be challenged.

Valmont

Filan wrote: »

...the medical model is the established one and that needs to be challenged.

I agree. The parents on the late late show, even after their son's horrific crime, were still playing the blame game that surely exacerbated his condition in the first place. The medical model implies that the depression was out of his control, hence the pills and then after the murder the parents commit the same error and suggest that his actual behaviour was not his fault either. It angered me because I knew as soon as it was on the late late show, thousands of people across the country would be nodding in agreement, even though the parent's argument was a complete farce.

Dilynnio

Filan wrote: »

Some people are railroaded onto the medical train without honest information...of course feeling depressed is the persons fault, but the system isn't always an honest one...because people are fed the illusion that tablets can solve their unhappy life...the medical model is the established one and that needs to be challenged.

A persons GP should under no circumstances be allowed to prescribe medication for depression. GP's give out anti-depressants if u go in and say I am depressed they basically go here take these!!!!!Its ridiculous!

They should only be allowed to evaluate the situation and advice their patient or then refer the person onto a mental health specialist.

Mental health in this country is a sham!

So many people are given anti-depressants for no reason.......i know for a fact that counselling would assist the majority of people much better.

Filan

Does such a things as 'Bi-polar' as defined by Psychiatry truly exist?...

I have trouble believing that people are born with a chemical imbalance which makes them lifelong depressed....again no test exists to prove such...depression does exist but I have trouble believing that it's causes are not environmental, however deeply buried they are.

Valmont

Filan wrote: »

Does such a things as 'Bi-polar' as defined by Psychiatry truly exist?...

I have trouble believing that people are born with a chemical imbalance which makes them lifelong depressed....again no test exists to prove such...depression does exist but I have trouble believing that it's causes are not environmental, however deeply buried they are.

Perhaps the causes are environmental but there is evidence to suggest, at the very least, a biological susceptibility.

Kevster

Filan,

It was stated here recently that SSRIs (common tablets for treating depression) have been shown to make the symptoms of bipolar worse.

Kevin

tudlytops

People often seam to compare or link Bi-polar with depression, Bi-polar is not depression, it is a condition that gives you mood swings.

i have bi-polar rapid cycle , thare may not be any tests for it, but when i go from depressed to the point where i don't respond to anything as if i am somewhere else, no energy, no life in me at all and in just a few hours later I think i am the chosen one and that I can fly and actually tried to jump from a flat because i could fly, or jumped off a moving car because i could push the car faster them the driver could drive it, i know that something is wrong, test or no test.

Bi-polars should never take anti-depressants without mood stabilisers as this could send them into a manic episode.

Now i think the problem is differentiating between depression, bi-polar, etc and the normal "Blues"

And I also think that at least here there is a lot of prescribing medication and not offering any other forms of treatment that may very well help reducing the amount of medication one takes and improve quality of life. We seam to have this thing with take these and come back next month, if they sedate you enough you will cause no problems therefore problem solve.

krankykitty

There may be a over willingness for some GPs to prescribe antidepressants like smarties, perhaps due to a lack of time to spend with each patient. but I truly do believe there is a very valid place for both the medical model and for psychotherapeutic/psychological interventions. What works for one will not work for another and in some circumstances medication is absolutely essential to improve the sufferers quality of life, or indeed to enable them to partake in talking therapy. Of course, some people actually do not need medication and can be helped with counselling/psychology etc - but sometimes (from anecdotal evidence) these people are thrown SSRI's without discussion of other options they may look at first.

From what I know of Bipolar, people with this condition should not be taking antidepressants at all but mood stabilisers - so prob this condition would be exacerbated by antidepressants simply because it's not the right treatment for them?

rjb80

The truth of the matter is that many people want a quick fix. If they are having problems they want to be diagnosed and prescribed a pill that will cure everything. This attitude is part of the problem, medication absolutely has a place but when people want it to cure everything then it's going to lead to problems.

tudlytops wrote: »

People often seam to compare or link Bi-polar with depression, Bi-polar is not depression, it is a condition that gives you mood swings.

i have bi-polar rapid cycle , thare may not be any tests for it, but when i go from depressed to the point where i don't respond to anything as if i am somewhere else, no energy, no life in me at all and in just a few hours later I think i am the chosen one and that I can fly and actually tried to jump from a flat because i could fly, or jumped off a moving car because i could push the car faster them the driver could drive it, i know that something is wrong, test or no test.

Bi-polars should never take anti-depressants without mood stabilisers as this could send them into a manic episode.

Now i think the problem is differentiating between depression, bi-polar, etc and the normal "Blues"

And I also think that at least here there is a lot of prescribing medication and not offering any other forms of treatment that may very well help reducing the amount of medication one takes and improve quality of life. We seam to have this thing with take these and come back next month, if they sedate you enough you will cause no problems therefore problem solve.

Tuddlytops, no need to answer if this is too personal a question but did you seek counselling or therapy for this situation and if so did it help?

Filan

I am open to the use of medication in certain acute circumstances if it's based on proven science. But having done research, much of it is not and has in some cases been proven to be false. False or questionable science has been accepted for generations and to admit this now (which some Psychiatrists have) would collapse the Medical model as we know it...

SLUSK

Filan wrote: »

I am open to the use of medication in certain acute circumstances if it's based on proven science. But having done research, much of it is not and has in some cases been proven to be false. False or questionable science has been accepted for generations and to admit this now (which some Psychiatrists have) would collapse the Medical model as we know it...

So are you saying modern psychiatry is a fraud?

Filan

aspects of it yes...I heard a Psychiatrist on the radio say that it has 'developed in completely the wrong direction'....Beyond Prozaz by Terry Lynch was a book that influenced me a lot, Also 'Madness Explained', can't remember the author expose many of the short comings of the science behing medication for mental health difficulties....I'm not saying everything is bung, I'm saying not that arrogant or qualified....

Filan

To be even more brutaly honest the only time I ever felt I might not want to go on was when prescribed an anti-depresssant for anxiety like symptoms....because apparently 'a lot of people with anxiety are also depressed' ..endured a shocking few days ....within a few days of stopping I was back to my normal self...good so long as I don't worry excessively....but I could have become an addict..prescribed with further medication to counteract what didn't work previous....and the cycle could have....and in many cases does go on and on....

Odysseus

Filan wrote: »

To be even more brutaly honest the only time I ever felt I might not want to go on was when prescribed an anti-depresssant for anxiety like symptoms....because apparently 'a lot of people with anxiety are also depressed' ..endured a shocking few days ....within a few days of stopping I was back to my normal self...good so long as I don't worry excessively....but I could have become an addict..prescribed with further medication to counteract what didn't work previous....and the cycle could have....and in many cases does go on and on....

Filan there is a point of view that these are symptom of "discontinuation" as opposed to withdrawal, the essence of addiction is the desirse to continue despiste adverse effects, and another key factor is tolerance. This is something that makes it difference to be "addicted" to anti/ds

Filan

It was the wrong course of action by a medical professional, have spoken about this with other qualified people...Anyway I've been fine since...and don't want to delve too personal on a public forum...my point has been made...

Odysseus

Filan wrote: »

It was the wrong course of action by a medical professional, have spoken about this with other qualified people...Anyway I've been fine since...and don't want to delve too personal on a public forum...my point has been made...

If that was to me, that's fine and I think your right about your subjectivity and the net. I was just trying to make the distinction between discontinuation symptoms and addiction, they can't be compared.

Filan

Actually Dr Ivor Browne, Psychiatrist on Newstalks 'the right hook' has just echoed much what I said....

nightster1

take 3 separate professional opinions

Valmont

SLUSK wrote: »

So are you saying modern psychiatry is a fraud?

Oh come on Slusk, leave the agenda at the door for once.

tudlytops

rjb80 wrote: »

The truth of the matter is that many people want a quick fix. If they are having problems they want to be diagnosed and prescribed a pill that will cure everything. This attitude is part of the problem, medication absolutely has a place but when people want it to cure everything then it's going to lead to problems.





Tuddlytops, no need to answer if this is too personal a question but did you seek counselling or therapy for this situation and if so did it help?

No problem, i don't mind talking about it, maybe if more people did talk about it would be better understood.

No not in the beginning, as I wasn't offered, i was simple told you have bi-polar, take these and a few weeks later, they added a few more, they didn't even told me what the medication was and went on like that, eventually I stooped taking medication and got really bad.

Eventually i went to see private psychiatrist and not the national health, she comes to me, as I got so bad I could not live the house unless I was manic and when I'm manic I believe there is nothing wrong with me, so I couldn't even go to the doc and he wouldn't come to me.

I now see the phiciatrist and a phycologic, counciling helps, not just to deal with past issues but I'm learning to better control my cycles and to better manage the bi-polar, I will always have to take medication but hopefully I will learn to manage the illness and not the other way around.

tudlytops

nightster1 wrote: »

take 3 separate professional opinions

That is easier said then done, first you have to have the money to do it, then your GP as to refer you to the 3 different doctors and there are waiting list.

workaccount

Are you guys fogetting that it is believed mental illnesses are biological and are genetically passed etc.?
Leave aside depression for a second, what about adhd or bipolar aswell actually - Are these a personality issue/character issue - do these guys just need to pull themselves together?

Many, many people are helped every day by medication I believe.

Sounds like the old argument - smile you just need to pull yourself together, no?