How to leave the Protestant church?

ShroomPicker

Thanks man. The problem is I was baptised in Australia... so it'll be a bit harder for me to get hold of the relevant people. I'll try though.

ravydavygravy

Surely you are Church of Australia then? You'll need to find specific details for them, since defection methods can be country specific: http://www.concordatwatch.eu/showkb.php?org_id=1551&kb_header_id=33981&order=kb_rank%20ASC&kb_id=33241#

ShroomPicker

Well, my family left Australia when I was very young, my mother is Irish. So I really am not sure about the whole thing. Until I decided to distance myself from the church, my family attended the local COI church. My Primary and secondary schools were COI. I may have been baptised again once we came to Ireland but I don't know. I was confirmed at age 13 or 14 in a COI church. Its all so confusing =/

Greaney

I'm a former Catholic converted to Presbyterian and I was tempted to go on the "count me out" website because I'm aware that records of baptised children are used by the Catholic Church statisticly. That means that when the Catholic church quote figures with regard to.... I dunno schools etc. they can use me as a number.

I'm not aware however that Protestant churches are using their 'old' figures. In fact, many of their denominations have published a rise in attendees in the last 10 years which leads me to believe that they use current census of their attendance for figures and there's no need to do the 'count me out' thing. Unlike the Catholics, if ya don't go, they don't count you.

homer911

The Presbyterian Church keeps records at a local level which would be constantly updated - covering families and individuals that have either a basic connection with the church and those in full formal membership. Each church submits financial and statistical data to Church House in Belfast on an annual basis which reflects their current membership, average attendance etc. It is these stats that they would use for general reporting. If someone stops attending a Presbyterian church, they simply drop off the stats....

PDN

So, if you try to get the Protestants to 'count you out', you might be rather deflated to find you don't count for anything anyway!

bambooman2

I am a Church of Ireland member and also a Select Vestry member (essentially the parish management committee). I can confirm that we don't count people in at any level unless they attend church at least twice in a year.

The RC church is different in that once you are baptised by it they count you in whether you like it or not. AIUI until recently it was impossible to leave (in their eyes) fullstop.

Therefore there is no requirement to leave the C of I if you don't want to be counted in. Officially you are not 'in the fold' if you are not attending.

This is a slightly unusual post in that the trend these days in the C of I is for people joining not leaving!

homer911

bambooman2 wrote: »

I am a Church of Ireland member and also a Select Vestry member (essentially the parish management committee). I can confirm that we don't count people in at any level unless they attend church at least twice in a year.

The RC church is different in that once you are baptised by it they count you in whether you like it or not. AIUI until recently it was impossible to leave (in their eyes) fullstop.

Therefore there is no requirement to leave the C of I if you don't want to be counted in. Officially you are not 'in the fold' if you are not attending.

This is a slightly unusual post in that the trend these days in the C of I is for people joining not leaving!

Out of curiosity bambooman, how do you determine if someone has attended twice in a year (which seems a very easy method of qualification)?

Could I be considered a member of 26 churches or is there some more formal measure of membership?

I know in the Presbyterian Church, these is a distinction between formal membership and association

Xluna

ShroomPicker wrote: »

You would laugh and call me a nutcase if I told you, as would most people. Its something that cannot be comprehended without experiencing it.

...You're not David Icke are you?:D

bambooman2

The two visits per year would seem a bit hard to keep track of but generally the communities are small. Between the church wardens who prepare the church for worship and hand out prayer books each Sunday and the Rector they will know if they have seen parishioners over a period of time. If a given parishioner hasn't been seen in some time they will drop off the list. It follows therefore that the parish will only count in people who attend service who are known. People who belong/have belonged to the C of I fall into three categories. A third go every week, a third go infrequently, a third don't go at all. Generally the parish will have a very good idea of what category people fall into.

Slav

Again out of curiosity but why do you maintain those lists of members at all?

philologos

A major reason is visiting, so that the minister can take an active interest in what is happening in their congregation.

Slav

So purely statistical reasons? Why record the names then?

Or is it used a list of voters when a parish related issues are decided or something like that?

Rev Hellfire

Slav wrote: »

So purely statistical reasons? Why record the names then?

Its a record of an historical event.

Or is it used a list of voters when a parish related issues are decided or something like that?

The primary record of interest is what's put down on official state forms.
Personally I think people who get worked up about getting their name removed really need to work on that chip on their shoulder.

If you don't want to be counted don't put it down on forms you fill in and don't say you are to get into a school or have a church wedding etc.

Anything more is posturing and juvenile sticking it to the man.

Excelsior

Slav wrote: »

So purely statistical reasons? Why record the names then?

Or is it used a list of voters when a parish related issues are decided or something like that?

i'm in a presbyterian church and the primary reason is that because our denomination works as a democracy, voting membership must have some meaning beyond "joe off the street wants to have the sexy blonde as the next minister in the local proddie church"

at the same time, you don't want to be stupidly exclusive so we set the bar low: attend communion once in the last 2 years and at least 1c donation to the freewill offering

a good secondary reason for us in my local church is that we're growing. we're going to need to find a new building in the next year or two. that will take a lot of clever intricate planning and generous donating but we also want to time it right. weekly head counts help us chart this growth.

and third, as jackass says, keeping track of this kind of thing, especially today when people travel so much for work, is very helpful as we seek to meet pastoral needs of the community.

kelly1

ShroomPicker wrote: »

Hi. A friend recently told me of a website, www.countmeout.ie, which is for those that wish to leave the Catholic church to do so. I was wondering if there is an equivalent website for those who are Protestant and wish to leave? I was born into a Protestant family and never bought into any of it and I wish to be officially distanced from christianity.

Hello SP, I'm sorry to hear about your decision. It makes a change from a Catholic wanting the leave the Church!

Do you mind me asking why you no longer wish to be considered Christian? Do you object to Christian doctrines? Is there something about Jesus you dislike? Do you just disbelieve what the bible tells us?

I wish you well.

God bless,
Noel.

Emme

bambooman2 wrote: »

The two visits per year would seem a bit hard to keep track of but generally the communities are small. Between the church wardens who prepare the church for worship and hand out prayer books each Sunday and the Rector they will know if they have seen parishioners over a period of time. If a given parishioner hasn't been seen in some time they will drop off the list. It follows therefore that the parish will only count in people who attend service who are known. People who belong/have belonged to the C of I fall into three categories. A third go every week, a third go infrequently, a third don't go at all. Generally the parish will have a very good idea of what category people fall into.

And it has nothing whatsoever to do with the amount the individual gives to the sustentation fund :rolleyes:

I was born COI, baptised, went to the primary and secondary schools. From childhood I found the COI to be obsessed with money and status and the children of poorer families in my parish never got picked for parts in plays etc. in GFS, Boys Brigade or primary school. A lot of what goes on in the COI really rankles me - the pressure to marry inside your faith, the petty smallmindedness of the COI, that sort of thing. In my opinion the COI is a cold, heartless organisation which is only concerned with appearances and being seen to be liberal while it is anything but. When a family member got ill and had to go to St Pats we were shunned by several members of the church. That made me so angry - it was so at variance with the message preached at us from the pulpit by the minister but my experience of the COI is that people say one thing, do another and the biggest sins of all are poverty and ignominy.

At least you've solved ShroomPicker's problem.

homer911

Emme wrote: »

And it has nothing whatsoever to do with the amount the individual gives to the sustentation fund :rolleyes:

I was born COI, baptised, went to the primary and secondary schools. From childhood I found the COI to be obsessed with money and status and the children of poorer families in my parish never got picked for parts in plays etc. in GFS, Boys Brigade or primary school. A lot of what goes on in the COI really rankles me - the pressure to marry inside your faith, the petty smallmindedness of the COI, that sort of thing. In my opinion the COI is a cold, heartless organisation which is only concerned with appearances and being seen to be liberal while it is anything but. When a family member got ill and had to go to St Pats we were shunned by several members of the church. That made me so angry - it was so at variance with the message preached at us from the pulpit by the minister but my experience of the COI is that people say one thing, do another and the biggest sins of all are poverty and ignominy.

At least you've solved ShroomPicker's problem.

Hi Emme

Sorry to hear about your bad experience - it clearly wrankles with you still. I would just say that there is good and bad in every denomination and not to write one off based on one parish.

I can however empathise with you - the Church of Ireland is a very broad church - some parishes could be very like what you describe. I myself started off in the Church of Ireland and could almost put names and faces to some of the people you describe in the particular church that I attended. I started going to an Evangelical Church at 18 and am currently worshiping in a Presbyterian Church.

I would say this to anyone in any church or none - there is no perfect church - if you find one and join it, it will no longer be perfect! But there are other churches - within your denomination or outside it, catholic or protestant, that may suit you better, so do give them a try rather than stop participating in the Christian faith alltogether.

As regards St. Pats - people mostly don't know how to react to mental illness and the illogical reaction is often to fear its contagious! Dont blame people for their fears, or not having the words to express their concern/compassion

bambooman2

Emme - I have to say that my experience of the Church of Ireland hasn't concurred with yours. In fact my family has an active foot in both the RC and C of I camps and I had the opportunity to make an informed choice. I picked the C of I and the spirit in the community was part of this decision. The community I am part of is very open and welcoming and we now have a situation, mainly in the last ten years, where good numbers of ex-RCs who had no previous experience or connection with the C of I are joining. It may not be a huge number in the scheme of things but four ex-RC families joined our parish this Christmas just gone. If the atmosphere was similar to what Emm described this simply would not be possible. The people who join are very valued by our community and other C of I parishes because they tend to be committed, supportive and get stuck in helping to run things. Prejudice is not unique to pockets of the C of I. I personally have heard and witnessed the RC version in action in rural Ireland. This I, hasten to add, does not meant that all rural areas are afflicted with prejudice.

Emme

bambooman2 wrote: »

Emme - I have to say that my experience of the Church of Ireland hasn't concurred with yours. In fact my family has an active foot in both the RC and C of I camps and I had the opportunity to make an informed choice. I picked the C of I and the spirit in the community was part of this decision. The community I am part of is very open and welcoming and we now have a situation, mainly in the last ten years, where good numbers of ex-RCs who had no previous experience or connection with the C of I are joining. It may not be a huge number in the scheme of things but four ex-RC families joined our parish this Christmas just gone. If the atmosphere was similar to what Emm described this simply would not be possible. The people who join are very valued by our community and other C of I parishes because they tend to be committed, supportive and get stuck in helping to run things. Prejudice is not unique to pockets of the C of I. I personally have heard and witnessed the RC version in action in rural Ireland. This I, hasten to add, does not meant that all rural areas are afflicted with prejudice.

I know that the RC church isn't perfect and some parishes (RC and COI) are fairer and more welcoming than others. I'm glad you had a good experience of the COI but I was born into a parish where I never felt welcome from day one. Our family wasn't as wealthy as most of the other families in the parish and we felt excluded from many things because of that. Certain fellow parishioners always blanked us in the street but it got worse when a relative had to go to St Pats. My mother came from another rural parish which wasn't as wealthy but was much friendlier. Her cakes were never good enough for the tweedy oul biddies who organised the parish Sales of Work.

Another thing I didn't like about my parish was that the COI community had a sense of superiority and tended to look down on the RCs. Our family actually got on better with RCs than COIs and when I was about 3 or 4 I asked could we go to church in our neighbours' (RC) church because the people were nicer! I didn't understand the religious differences then. Out of the mouths of babes...

bambooman2

Another thing I didn't like about my parish was that the COI community had a sense of superiority and tended to look down on the RCs. Our family actually got on better with RCs than COIs and when I was about 3 or 4 I asked could we go to church in our neighbours' (RC) church because the people were nicer! I didn't understand the religious differences then. Out of the mouths of babes...[/QUOTE]

Hi Emme, I hope you don't feel I am raining on your parade here but I have heard the superiority thing coming the other direction as well. The propensity to look down on others exists as well in the RC camp and I have come across it directly on several occasions. Unfortunately this kind of stuff is about ignorance and prejudice and in some limited cases it actually is a form of racism. I attend diocesan synod on behalf of my parish and to be honest I am actually very happy with the open mindedness of our clergy whom I have met a lot of and their commitment to inclusiveness. Indeed there is quite a deal of sympathy for the current plight of our RC brothers and sisters at the moment and what they are going through at the moment. There is also a lot of admiration for Archbishop Diarmuid Martin and his efforts to fix things.

Emme

bambooman2 wrote: »

Indeed there is quite a deal of sympathy for the current plight of our RC brothers and sisters at the moment and what they are going through at the moment. There is also a lot of admiration for Archbishop Diarmuid Martin and his efforts to fix things.

I'm sure there is and many COI people who were through the same thing themselves would be well able to sympathise. Have you heard of Derek Linster or read any of his books?

Tim Robbins

Excelsior wrote: »

i'm in a presbyterian church and the primary reason is that because our denomination works as a democracy, voting membership must have some meaning beyond "joe off the street wants to have the sexy blonde as the next minister in the local proddie church"

at the same time, you don't want to be stupidly exclusive so we set the bar low: attend communion once in the last 2 years and at least 1c donation to the freewill offering

a good secondary reason for us in my local church is that we're growing. we're going to need to find a new building in the next year or two. that will take a lot of clever intricate planning and generous donating but we also want to time it right. weekly head counts help us chart this growth.

and third, as jackass says, keeping track of this kind of thing, especially today when people travel so much for work, is very helpful as we seek to meet pastoral needs of the community.

Are you growing because of the South Africans living over here has increased or where are you getting your members from?

AS a matter of interest. Thanks.

bambooman2

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Are you growing because of the South Africans living over here has increased or where are you getting your members from?

AS a matter of interest. Thanks.

Its a while since posting was active here but I thought I might follow up here with an answer on this. The various Protestant denominations have been experiencing growth in recent years most particularly the Church of Ireland.

However immigration isn't as big a factor in the growth of the C of I as people think. This is because many African immigrants prefer an evangelical style of worship which is not really available in most of the C of I parishes. African immigrants often tend to prefer Methodist parishes where the style of worship is a bit closer to what they want.

In the C of I the real growth in numbers is coming from the Roman Catholic Church. There are a variety of reasons for this including the various abuse scandals but a big factor is the fact that 'changing horses' is seen as less and less taboo these days. The rise in numbers is most pronounced in middle class parishes in urban areas.