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Staff Layoffs

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2

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    #32
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Naos wrote: »
    I don't agree with the last in first out mentality.

    If I work my ass off, why should someone who's simply got seniority but doesn't work hard stay over me?

    This practise doesn't exactly encourage/motivate employees to work harder.
    CreepingDeath wrote: »
    You can tell who was indoctrinated into the trade union way of thinking.

    If you care about what's best for your business, then you pick the two most productive and reliable workers.
    Cost base analysis - who makes the most money for you.

    And putting on my cold calculating hat on... newly married girl with house could mean maternity leave in the foreseeable future. If you can afford the cost of that plus replacement cover staff.

    I'm sure that'll get a backlash of comments, but when it comes to saving jobs all things have to be considered.


    Are we deliberately ignoring the part about the performance being equal? We're talkign about this case in the OP.


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    #33
    geeky
    Registered Users Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭geeky


    Choosing someone to stay because she has more financial commitments is entering a world of hurt OP. You'd be opening yourself to unfair dismissal cases from the people you let go, and wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

    I'd be inclined first to seek pay cuts or reductions in hours rather than redundancies - level with your staff about the situation, and you'd be surprised how far they'll go to be sure of keeping their jobs.

    If that doesn't get you savings, you should have written redundancy selection criteria to cover yourself. LIFO is convenient because it's straightforward but, as other people have said, it's not efficient. Genuinely have a think about what skills your employees will need in 2010 and beyond - unless you work in a freakish 'children of the corn' style office, there are differences between your staff and their skills. Just because you're a nice person and don't want to see them won't change that.

    Oh, and because this is AH and not a genuine advice column, I'm legally obliged to put 'fellatio skills' at the top of the list.


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    #34
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    OP is this a hypothetical situation or are you really asking the poster's of AH to decide the future of two staff member's?.

    OP - YOU ARE FIRED.


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    #35
    Trekker09
    Registered Users Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭Trekker09


    You could turn it into a 'Reality TV Show'. Get them to undertake unfeasably TV freindly tasks, then get Joe Public to ring in and vote.


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    #36
    Nolanger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,556 ✭✭✭Nolanger


    2 jobs 4 staff - Week On Week Off - it's not rocket science!


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    #37
    Naos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,728 ✭✭✭Naos


    Stekelly wrote: »
    Are we deliberately ignoring the part about the performance being equal? We're talkign about this case in the OP.

    No, we weren't responding to the OP saying not to by by seniority, we were responding to those who mentioned seniority and outlined the reasons why it's not a good idea.


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    #38
    TestTransmission
    Registered Users Posts: 19,106 ✭✭✭✭TestTransmission


    keysersoze_88 wrote: »
    Beat me to it damn you ,
    who makes the best tea OP?

    Fook dat,who gives the best head


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    #39
    jungleboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭jungleboy


    Vivienne Ripe Umpire wrote: »
    OP is this a hypothetical situation or are you really asking the poster's of AH to decide the future of two staff member's?.

    OP - YOU ARE FIRED.


    No I have been asked by the MD to return from christmas with my proposal, not looking forward to january it think that it may be the worst month ever regarding layoff in Ireland.


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    #40
    Hail 2 Da Chimp
    Registered Users Posts: 7,589 ✭✭✭Hail 2 Da Chimp


    Beruthiel wrote: »
    You cannot allow sentiment make your decision for you.
    The fairest all round for everyone is last in first out. Nobody can question that because it's accepted practice.

    Not really fairest for him if the first two in are lazy feckers who never lift a finger. Keep the 2 people who are best at their job...


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    #41
    MicraBoy
    Registered Users Posts: 916 ✭✭✭MicraBoy


    Ah sure its like the Bulmers ad with the Christmas lights all over again!


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    #42
    Ruu_Old
    Closed Accounts Posts: 36,634 ✭✭✭✭Ruu_Old


    Rock, paper, scissors.


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    #43
    KarmaGarda
    Registered Users Posts: 1,009 ✭✭✭KarmaGarda


    Seriously, keep the ones with the tits.

    Or the 2 with the biggest tits.

    Done. That'll be €400 please.


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    #44
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    iceman777 wrote: »
    LIFO only works in a low-skills environment e.g. manaufacturing.

    If you are working in an intellectual/skilled environment, then you must look at their past productivity, work ethic, career path plans, promotions etc.

    Do not consider their personal circumstances at all. This is not a personal/friendship call. It is a business call. Separate them at all times.

    What an ignorant comment to make. LIFO only works in low skilled sectors? WTF? What is your reasoning for this?



    Job sharing maybe? Put them all to 2.5 day weeks? They can still claim social welfare for the rest of their week so they are not toooo bad off.

    Either way, last in first out is fcuking stupid... There are plenty of idiots working for companies, taking the piss because of this system. PR's all the way.

    Either way op. If you HAVE to let two go, keep your two best. You didn't make anybody purchase a house or get married, have kids or anything else. Not your problem.


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    #45
    Kiera
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,130 ✭✭✭✭Kiera


    jungleboy wrote: »
    I have got 4 excellent people working with me and I will have to let go of 2 in January. I just can’t separate between them on a professional basis.
    Emanuel Gifted Twerp wrote: »
    What an ignorant comment to make. LIFO only works in low skilled sectors? WTF? What is your reasoning for this?



    Job sharing maybe? Put them all to 2.5 day weeks? They can still claim social welfare for the rest of their week so they are not toooo bad off.

    Either way, last in first out is fcuking stupid... There are plenty of idiots working for companies, taking the piss because of this system. PR's all the way.

    Either way op. If you HAVE to let two go, keep your two best. You didn't make anybody purchase a house or get married, have kids or anything else. Not your problem.
    Are you blind? They are all equal so therefore the only sensible option for him is "last in, first out"


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    #46
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Talk to your public sector union repre . .. oh wrong thread.


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    #47
    raptorman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 120 ✭✭raptorman


    There is no way the four are equal. Its just easy to say they are and go with the LIFO option.
    As has been said your going to have to anylise these people in a cold manner. Basically who's going to make the company more money in the future.
    Draw up a list of criteria and attach weights to the different ones and then score each member of staff accordingly. Then fire the two bottom preformers.


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    #48
    LouOB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭LouOB


    Why dont you leave the decision up to them?

    You never know who would want a long break or go travelling


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    #49
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,800 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Nolanger wrote: »
    2 jobs 4 staff - Week On Week Off - it's not rocket science!
    It's an option all right - check up if they can sign on for the other week, half a loaf and all that

    Also Friday is in a different PRSI week to the other days so they would not loose stamps for the week they were not working.


    You could also give them all the options and see what they come up with so you can wash your hands of the decision, but can override them if they don't.


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    #50
    iceman777
    Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭iceman777


    Emanuel Gifted Twerp wrote: »
    What an ignorant comment to make. LIFO only works in low skilled sectors? WTF? What is your reasoning for this?

    If you are in a low skilled environment, productivity is not based on the person i.e. in most cases the person will not be able to be more productive than the next.

    In the case of a more skilled industry e.g. IT, telecommunications, pharmaceuticals, banking (maybe a bad example) etc. the productivity of 2 people can easily be compared and looking at things such as career development, training, responsibility, past performance etc. is needed.

    I would also comment (and people may not like it) that if the 4 employees are equal, then they probably work in a low-skilled sector and normally due to Union involvement, it would be LIFO being used.

    I do think the OP is tainted on the personal life of the employees, which should be kept completely apart.


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    #51
    jungleboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭jungleboy


    Its a high skilled sector and no unions !


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    #52
    Wurly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭Wurly


    TheZohan wrote: »
    I don't either, but in the OPs situation it's the only fair way of doing it as they're all good workers.
    And they all have lovely bottoms.


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    #53
    jk86
    Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭jk86


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    Four men enter two men leave

    Then the other two leave after being declared the victors


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    #54
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 23,982 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    jungleboy wrote: »
    Its a high skilled sector and no unions !

    You're left with degrees of ugliness in that case.


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    #55
    Captain Darling
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,542 ✭✭✭Captain Darling


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    Four men enter two men leave
    I first read that as four men enter two men.


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    #56
    Wurly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭Wurly


    Captain Darling wrote: »
    I first read that as four men enter two men.
    Of course you did..;)


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    #57
    Captain Darling
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,542 ✭✭✭Captain Darling


    Trí wrote: »
    Of course you did..;)
    My good friend Freud would have something to say about that... :P


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    #58
    CreepingDeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,016 ✭✭✭CreepingDeath


    Put the two jobs up for a closed tendering process.

    Each of the 4 people has to submit the lowest wage they'd be prepared to work for in a sealed envelope.
    The lowest 2 "win".


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    #59
    Wurly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭Wurly


    Captain Darling wrote: »
    My good friend Freud would have something to say about that... :P

    I thought his name was Jean/Gene?:D


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    #60
    Captain Darling
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,542 ✭✭✭Captain Darling


    CreepingDeath wrote: »
    Put the two jobs up for a closed tendering process.

    Each of the 4 people has to submit the lowest wage they'd be prepared to work for in a sealed envelope.
    The lowest 2 "win".
    Thats a bit Dickensian dont you think?

    Next stop workhouses and gruel!


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    #61
    Captain Darling
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,542 ✭✭✭Captain Darling


    Trí wrote: »
    I thought his name was Jean/Gene?:D
    Hmmm...


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