EP Mooney is Back!

cvisser

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/dealer-makes-swift-return-to-forecourt-1976555.html

unkel

The first green shoot in the Irish car industry? Let's hope so.

Downside is that we'll all be driving 1 litre Hyundais next year

agent_smith

This is fantastic news. Pure speculation but I wonder what the other two car makes are .... my money is on honda and nissan (obvious probably).

bazzachazza

On Monday, the High Court made formal winding-up orders for the EP Mooney dealership.

Ms Justice Mary Laffoy confirmed accountant Paul McCann as provisional liquidator to the company, which has debts of €22m

Talk about starting under a cloud though.

flanzer

bazzachazza wrote: »

Talk about starting under a cloud though.

Happens all the time I'm afraid.

Company goes bust stinging the taxman and/or creditors, company director gets banned from being a director for a number of years, the following day he/she sets up again with a family member as the director, and Bob's your aunt.

Happened quite a bit to my Dad in the 80s, getting stung left right and centre from debtors. Still happens 20/30 years later unfortunately

Cookie_Monster

Thats pretty dodgy, no?

Leave one company with €22m debt and just setup another doing the exact same line of business.

It would not surprise me in the slighest to see this new venture end the same way sooner or later

R.O.R

agent_smith wrote: »

This is fantastic news. Pure speculation but I wonder what the other two car makes are .... my money is on honda and nissan (obvious probably).

Hope it's Volvo, hope it's Volvo, hope it's Volvo.

Have a good few Volvo's on our fleet and it's miles to either Spirit or HB Dennis.

Guy:Incognito

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Thats pretty dodgy, no?

Leave one company with €22m debt and just setup another doing the exact same line of business.

It would not surprise me in the slighest to see this new venture end the same way sooner or later

Thats what I was thinking. If a builder did it (any many have, which is one of the main reasons I'm out of work) they'd be getting abused.

Having said that I dont know the full facts but if it is that then I cant see why it should be encouraged.

TomMc

Many other businesses/trades have to be licensed or regulated, I think it is time something was done to stop this practice of running a business into huge debt through mismanagement, going bust, leaving a trail of destruction and then setting up afresh. While I haven't much sympathy for the banks (although we the taxpayer and general public pay the price), what about smaller suppliers in business. It is despicable to let them have to suffer the consequences for the failure of others. Total arrogance.

Jody S

I think that's great news,my family has been buying cars off them for years,my dad drove Bluebirds & Laurels in the 80's that he bought off the father Ernie & since then I have bought from them as have my brothers,sister & the in laws,not one of them has a bad word to say about them & we where all very sad to hear that they where closing.A friend of my brother had been working there for well over 10 years & he was upset not for his job but for the fact that the family business had been lost, I think that says alot about the Mooney family as to how they treated their staff.

Before people start complaining they should consider the amount of people that have lost there jobs,who now face getting up in the morning & having nothing to do all day & not earning money & having to claim off the state.

Mooneys should be applauded for creating employments & getting people off the labour,saving the state money & contributing to the exchequer.

Its great that they will be creating employment again in the local area.Well Done EP Mooney.

Big Nasty

I am glad to see them back, I am glad 30 people will have jobs again but I still feel it's not right that someone can walk away from a €22m debt and just start over. I mean it was a limited company, fair enough but he obviously has quiet a few bob in a bank somewhere if he can afford to start over. What about the various suppliers that were left high and dry?

Many will say, ah fair play to him getting back up on the horse, but put it like this - what if it was a building company that left you in the **** and were back a couple of weeks later building houses down the road? I can't see too many people applauding that!

Kersh

Does this mean my Dads company will get the money that is owed to him by EP Mooneys?? :mad: :mad: :mad: Money that it needs to pay his rent on his premises.

If they arent obliged to pay then this whole country is a disgrace. An absolute disgrace.

old geezer

acording to the paper today the biggest loser is his own property company that was supporting the garages 14 or 15 million of the 22million

I've been dealing with them for years they are honest people.

Kersh

Then as a gesture of goodwill and to help prevent my fathers company going under ask him to pay his bill. If he is that honest. These ppl should be made accountable, running up debts, shutting up shop and reopening. Hope the place burns down, and costs him all his money.

Damien360

Kersh wrote: »

Does this mean my Dads company will get the money that is owed to him by EP Mooneys?? :mad: :mad: :mad: Money that it needs to pay his rent on his premises.

If they arent obliged to pay then this whole country is a disgrace. An absolute disgrace.

They are not obliged. The liquidator will sell the stock and make as much as possible for the largest creditors. Once they get their pound of flesh the remainder will be shared around to the rest. Typically a few cent for every pound owed. Therefore if you are owed a 1000 expect to get 100 if you are lucky.

This goes on in Ireland and the UK all the time. Once it is a limited liability company, the director cannot be chased for the debt from his personal fortune. A large gapping loophole for many, many years. Should your Dad go bust because of unpaid debts he can avail of this also. And the debt spirals down to his creditors.

Kersh

He pays his bills, and keeps his company in check. Unlike most af the fat ar*eholes at the top of this country, and at the top of business in this country.


My father is not mismanaging his company running up huge debts then leaving everyone in the lurch. He is managing it properly. But it will end up shutting cos of fuks like this guy :mad::mad::mad:

I hope this EP mooney venture is boycotted to the end and shuts.

McGrath5

Suppose its good to hear about the workers will now be re-employed in the new company. I was talking to Padraic himself there a few weeks ago, seemed like a decent enough guy.

jimmycrackcorm

To be fair to dealers, they were pressured by the manufacturers to invest a lot of money in the showrooms or lose their dealerships.

Damien360

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

To be fair to dealers, they were pressured by the manufacturers to invest a lot of money in the showrooms or lose their dealerships.

That is continually peddled out as an excuse. Surely these same manufacturers were forcing the UK and European dealers to do the same. Have they seen the same level of debt ?

Have we too many dealers for the size of the country and therefore they do not see enough turnover to warrant the glass palace ?

cvisser

Irish Times had an Interview with Paraic.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2009/1216/1224260751966.html

L1011

R.O.R wrote: »

Hope it's Volvo, hope it's Volvo, hope it's Volvo.

I'm pleading for Fiat as the other one, I'm running out of places I'll trust with my car!

Big Nasty

Property Portfolio worth €130 million 3 years back will still be worth €80-€90m today. I don't think it's fair that they shut up shop and let their creditors suffer when a small part of this portfolio could have been liquidised. He could then have shut up shop 'honestly' if he chose as opposed to walking away, screwing his suppliers and reopening practically the next week as P.E. Mooney or whatever! Ok the property business was a different business but it was fed by the motor trade in the first place so should have compensated for their motoring division when it got in the ****, again he still had the option to balance the books fairly and walk away if he wanted. I am glad there are 30 people back in a job but I still don't think this practice is fair, even if the law says so.

crosstownk

I pass by the place every morning and yesterday I noticed that the forecourt had a stock of new Hyundais..........

fryup

Kersh wrote: »

My father is not mismanaging his company running up huge debts then leaving everyone in the lurch. He is managing it properly. But it will end up shutting cos of fuks like this guy :mad::mad::mad:

And what line of business is your father in?? if you don't mind me asking

And how is it related to Mr Mooney??

Big Nasty

fryup wrote: »

And what line of business is your father in?? if you don't mind me asking

And how is it related to Mr Mooney??

We can't really go down that road in fairness!

Kersh

And what line of business is your father in?? if you don't mind me asking

And how is it related to Mr Mooney??

That has nothing to do with it. But obviously its motor trade related. And EP Mooneys owe him money. In my opinion I would advise anyone doing work for or supplying parts to, this guy, to seriously consider it, or get paid upfront.

voteforpedro

sorry for my ignorance but what is there left to liquidate if he has set up shop again?

100% unfair to all the creditors involved!!!!

iWillBeReborn

It is rather sickening but that is just the way it goes.

I know a few people in the industry and it is not just dealers having a hard time. Loads of staff have been let go at various importers/distributors too.

And it is only going to get a whole lot of worse next year too.

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Property Portfolio worth €130 million 3 years back will still be worth €80-€90m today. I don't think it's fair that they shut up shop and let their creditors suffer when a small part of this portfolio could have been liquidised.

I'd say the banks own all that in reality. Selling any of it off would just have been giving the money back to the bank it was borrowed off.

iWillBeReborn

voteforpedro wrote: »

sorry for my ignorance but what is there left to liquidate if he has set up shop again?

100% unfair to all the creditors involved!!!!

http://www.eauctions.ie/pages/currentsales/ep-mooney-in-liquidation.php

http://www.odce.ie/en/functions_insolvency.aspx
If you feel the directors have broken the law complain to the office of director of corporate enforcement.

If the directors have done nothing wrong I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed go back into the business they know.

Drummerboy08

The big question is, who in their right mind will buy a car from a dealer who has just risen from the ashes of bankruptcy?

Would you buy a car from a dealer if you were not sure if they'll be around to honour their warranty (used cars only)?

Would you service your car in a dealer that you think may or may not go bust again? Go through the hardship of getting your car back?

What financial institutions will even look at them for credit? We find it hard after 40 years of impeccable credit history! Imagine a dealer who has just gone bust and re-registered under a different name looking for a loan?

Its a big ask to be honest. Pat White seems to be going well, but he's downgraded to a significantly smaller and cheaper premises. He also has a small amount of very saleable stock. EP Mooney's has a yard full of Hyundai's at the minute. Nobody bought them in the good times (Santa fe's and Coupes aside, especially since most were bought on finance thats not available anymore), who in their right mind will buy one now??!

TBH, I think he should have let the sleeping dog lie. It may create 30 jobs now, but they could just be easily let go again in a few months if metal isnt being shifted.

Kersh

TBH, I think he should have let the sleeping dog lie. It may create 30 jobs now, but they could just be easily let go again in a few months if metal isnt being shifted.

ye, and more suppliers left in the lurch, but tbh it will serve them right for supplying someone who mismanaged a company to the tune of 22 million.

You never know - the manufacturer might be desperate and have loaned the cars to the dealer - only looking for cash if it is sold.

Drummerboy08

Deleted User wrote: »

You never know - the manufacturer might be desperate and have loaned the cars to the dealer - only looking for cash if it is sold.

Na, if Hyundai are that desperate to move stock, they'd send it to the UK, like Audi, VW, Ford, Mitsubitshi, Jag, Landrover, and possibly every other distributor too.

Trust me, there is no deal like that going on. Hyundai couldnt and wouldnt take the risk of losing that stock. It has to be in the dealer name to be covered under dealer insurance, so Mooney's would have to buy it. I'd doubt that Hyundai would let hundreds of thousands of euros worth of stock out without taking some form of payment for it.

Guy:Incognito

Jody S wrote: »

Before people start complaining they should consider the amount of people that have lost there jobs,who now face getting up in the morning & having nothing to do all day & not earning money & having to claim off the state.
.

What about the people in the places that are owed a portion of the €22m that will presumably be written off?


One thing I noticed in the days after EP mooney went, the Renault signs all dissappeared from the Naas Road showroom, while there was still a couple of cars inside and the other marques still had their signs. Did someone just fancy themselves a huge diamond? :-)

unkel

Is that a confession from a die hard Renault fan, Stekelly?

Big Nasty

Sick as I am to say this, there is regular bashing about Longmile Road, Robinhood Ind Est Indy dealers selling cars and bowing out leaving people high and dry and now here's a well respected dealer 40 years in the business and in the same area doing exactly the same thing. I may as well just buy a car out of a Potacabin in future as they seem to invest just the same level of trust in their customers and suppliers

Drummerboy08

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Sick as I am to say this, there is regular bashing about Longmile Road, Robinhood Ind Est Indy dealers selling cars and bowing out leaving people high and dry and now here's a well respected dealer 40 years in the business and in the same area doing exactly the same thing. I may as well just buy a car out of a Potacabin in future as they seem to invest just the same level of trust in their customers and suppliers

I'd agree with that alright.

Big Nasty

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

I'd agree with that alright.

Damn sad ain't it dude?

JHMEG

The other good news from that newspaper article (for those that missed it) is the recession will be over in March as BMW are launching a new 78 thousand euro roadster then.

Drummerboy08

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Damn sad ain't it dude?

Well I suppose its the way business works for some people. Its only going to become more and more common, especially in the next 18 months. I can understand why Mooney has done this - I can only imagine how it felt to lose a huge business, but that doesnt excuse the fact that he's left other companies and customers out of pocket to the tune of 22 million.

Things like this will only destroy what little is left of consumer confidence in the motor trade if you ask me. People will think " well if a large dealer like EP Mooney's can do something like this, any dealer in the country can do it. I'll just go to the UK for my next car instead" It's only going to bad for the who industry IMO.

I work for a large dealer in Dublin who has a lot of different branches across the country. I suppose I know that we are relatively safe for the time being, and we've even taken on a new franchise, but what I know doesnt count. Its what the public will think. I think the only way to get customers on board is to convince them that you arent going anywhere.

RedorDead

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

EP Mooney's has a yard full of Hyundai's at the minute. Nobody bought them in the good times (Santa fe's and Coupes aside, especially since most were bought on finance thats not available anymore), who in their right mind will buy one now??!

A lot of people seem to buy them in times of scrappage - Hyundai sold more cars during the scrappage in UK than all manufacturers in September. In Europe they have shown the largest % increase in countries operating scrappage schemes.

galwaytt

MCMLXXV wrote: »

.. I may as well just buy a car out of a xxxcabin in future as they seem to invest just the same level of trust in their customers and suppliers

Oi ! I object ! :P

There are cars, and cabins..........there's Hyundai's vs Honda's and there's XXXXcabins and ours......;)

Saab Ed

RedorDead wrote: »

A lot of people seem to buy them in times of scrappage - Hyundai sold more cars during the scrappage in UK than all manufacturers in September. In Europe they have shown the largest % increase in countries operating scrappage schemes.

Not totally true.... They made the largest in roads with private punters. Its a magic trick with statistics. They ( Hyundai ) didnt even dent the real figures given that across Europe most reg's are made up of Fleet company, Hire company or Business buyers. Peugeot used to use a similar stat in their ads by claiming to be the No1 seller to private users in the UK. I cant remember the exact percentage but if memory serves me I think that stat represented about 5% market share. Stats can be twisted many ways

PS : With regard to Mooneys dont forget that EP Mooney Holdings never made a loss. They were the part of the company that owns all the property and rented the buildings to the loss making car dealers. EP Mooney Holdings didnt go bust , the car dealers did. Plus Mr Mooney has great personal wealth and can easily afford to finance a start up main dealer business without a bank. So lets recap: All the old car dealers under one umbrella are gone bust with the banks swinging for a fortune. EP Mooney Holdings goes on. Mr Mooney starts again using his own personal wealth to finance the dealership/s and ploughs on debt free. It might not be right but there you go

Drummerboy08

RedorDead wrote: »

A lot of people seem to buy them in times of scrappage - Hyundai sold more cars during the scrappage in UK than all manufacturers in September. In Europe they have shown the largest % increase in countries operating scrappage schemes.

The European and UK markets are completely different kettles of fish in fairness.

bostoncommon

Story going around the trade.

Darsad

I think its pretty clear from the article in the Indo that Padraic Mooney is setting up again with the backing of others so in essence , he will probably be classed as an employee and trying to use the good name and a substantial customer data base from EP Mooney,s.

reverandkenjami

Its a bit of a joke tbh!! Mooneys owe the place i work 10k - prob the difference between someone having a job next year and not..... :mad:

He'll struggle for credit with alot of places!

-Chris-

Just a note - in the discussion of this story/topic, can we stick to discussion of newspaper articles etc. (stuff that can be linked to or Googled) rather than discussing or sharing rumours?

Thanks.

THEDONWALDO

+1

well said Chris. there are too many rumour mongers out there

dublin needs to work

hey im new to all this but iv been following ep mooneys since they got into trouble and i really dont understand how he can let 170 people go and one week later (not that it was 1 week more like 2 days) open back up under a new name i for one would not trust a garge that can do that